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Template:Did you know nominations/George von Amsberg

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

George von Amsberg

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  • Reviewed: Max Charles
  • Comment: Not a self-nomination. Anyway, some citations are needed, depending on effects of this nomination.

Created/expanded by Awun (talk). Nominated by George Ho (talk) at 16:05, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

I hope it's not bad form to propose an alternate hook for someone else's nomination of your own article, but if I understand correctly the nomination only has a very short lifespan unless there is discussion anyway. So as this has aged several days without comment, how about:
I believe I have fixed any cite problems to do with the facts referenced. Cites for command in Cross Keys and Chancellorsville are needed, but these are not directly referenced in either hook. I can obtain these sooner rather than later if need be. If this is not the way things are done, please forgive (I'm new) and let me know.
Awun (talk) 22:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
ALT1 looks fine, as well. Let's wait for reviewer and promoter then. By the way, I've bolded title. --George Ho (talk) 23:01, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Hook is within 200 characters, article is long enough. The Hungarian part would need some expansion. References are fine. Hint:try to search "Amsberg György" for better result as contemporary Hungarian sources tended to translate the foreign names to Hungarian form; e.g. [1], [2], [3] (they reveal more details like his trial was held at Arad, he was in the 7th hussar cavalry regiment. etc) . With these sources the claims about him participating in the Hungarian Revolution seems to be fair. The second hook fits the subject better although the sources I've linked point out that he was Major not a Brigadier General (he was a Colonel in the US). Otherwise nicely done good work. Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 13:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Thanks so much for the info on Hungarian language sources Lajbi. Your comments have correctly focused on the primary difficulty in writing this article; there appears to be extremely limited English language information on this man before the American Civil War (and no information regarding him after). After reasonably extensive search I found a total of four very limited sources. The primary one is a New York Times article from 1861. There is also limited information in a 1913 book on Hungarians in the American Civil War, a web page by a licensed Gettysburg battlefield guide, and a passenger record from 1858. The New York Times article is by far the most detailed, and the other three all serve to corroborate. It is the New York Times article that claims he was a Major as Aide-de-Camp to Dembinski and later rose to Brigadier General and commanded 13,000 troops. The others just indicate he was an officer. Of course, von Amsberg himself may well have been the source for the NYT article, (directly or indirectly). Details could be exaggerated, but it is also possible that he was breveted as a Brigadier General, and not permanently promoted. This practice occurred at least in the US Army in the period, though I don't know about the Hungarian Revolutionary forces.
Even the quick information you obtained in Hungarian is intriguing. After the surrender of the revolutionary forces the Austrian Empire executed a number of the revolutionary leaders, known as the 13 Martyrs of Arad. If you found that von Amsberg's trial was conducted in Arad, and given the severity of his sentence, this would also seem to corroborate that he was considered to be a figure of some importance in the revolution. That he was, in fact, imprisoned for a long period seems to be corroborated by US General Oliver Howard in a letter to Secretary of War Stanton on January 12, 1864.
So, in conclusion, regarding the details of his time in the Hungarian Revolution, I think the article is probably in as good a form as can be obtained without work by someone with Hungarian language skills, which I don't have, unfortunately (hint, hint ... any interest Lajbi?). As this relates to the DYK nomination, the difficulty could be resolved by changing "a Brigadier General" in the alternate hook to "an officer", or avoiding the issue entirely with George's initial proposal. Awun (talk) 13:54, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Agreed. Let it be "officer" until his rank could be clearly found out with absolute certainty. Lajbi Holla @ me • CP 15:28, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
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