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Template:Did you know nominations/Give Thanks With a Grateful Heart

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:52, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

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Give Thanks With a Grateful Heart

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Created by The C of E (talk). Self-nominated at 21:14, 2 October 2016 (UTC).

  • This entry is new enough and long enough, and mostly within policy as to the DYK requirements. I don't detect any copyvios and the article is neutral, but there are some sourcing concerns. The original hook is short enough and it is interesting, with a reference immediately following the sentence. However, that New Humanist source only mentions "One-Nil to the Arsenal" and not "Give Thanks with a Grateful Heart" as far as I can tell. The article seems to rely largely on questionable sources, including a youth ministry blog, a lyrics website, and an online discussion forum post. If we can tighten up the sourcing, an extra comma and an extra semicolon need to be taken out of the hook. EricEnfermero (Talk) 03:10, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
    • @EricEnfermero: It's mentioned in the source at the bottom where it says "They head off back inside the compound to a rousing rendition of “Give Thanks with a Grateful Heart” (which is, spookily, sung to the tune of “one-nil to the Arsenal”)." AS for the lyrics website source (I'm assuming you're referring to hymnary, it has already been ruled at RSN that it is a reliable source. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:38, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
      • I appreciate you pointing out the RS issue and the part of the reference that includes the mention of the song. The cited source suggests to me that "One-Nil to the Arsenal" came first - I think that's the reverse of what the hook says, unless I'm misunderstanding. EricEnfermero (Talk) 07:58, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
      • Just adding here that while the Catholic Online source has a video of the song and it talks about the meaning of Thanksgiving, I can't see where it supports the assertion that the song is used commonly in Thanksgiving services. Likewise, I think we should just get rid of the listserv source of the guy who sings the song to himself. EricEnfermero (Talk) 08:11, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
        • @EricEnfermero: I have added a source for Arsenal's usage of it and reworded the Thanksgiving line. But I'm still not quite sure which one you mean by the listserv source? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:47, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
          • The Ship of Fools source seems to be an email mailing list post about a guy who says he was singing this song to himself (back in 1999). I can't see how this merits mention in an encyclopedia; in general, you don't find many reliably sourced articles using message board posts anyway. EricEnfermero (Talk) 09:00, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your work on this. Does the Catholic Online source really support an association between the song and Thanksgiving in the US? I think it just might support the fact that a video of the song appears on a web post about Thanksgiving, and I can't imagine that being worthy of inclusion here. EricEnfermero (Talk) 10:14, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
  • @EricEnfermero: I have now reworded it while retaining inclusion of the source. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 11:07, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
    • Seems a stretch to retain that source, but I don't think that we can justify holding up a DYK for that. All of the statements that I made in my initial review are still valid (length, newness, no copyvios, sourced/interesting hook, etc), so I think we are good to go. EricEnfermero (Talk) 19:32, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Just to make clear that the above tick is no longer valid: the hook was pulled after discussion at WT:DYK, and this discussion then reopened by the C of E. Fram (talk) 11:22, 11 October 2016 (UTC) And after the incorrect information, the unreliably sourced bits, and the bits with a source but without that info on the source were removed, the article was of clearly insufficient length to be promoted anyway. Fram (talk) 11:22, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

The Arsenal hook may be opposed but no comments have yet been given against the Go West source. The Royal C (talk) 15:10, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
As the environment won't allow for Go West inclusion, the new hook I propose is ALT2 ... that the Christian song "Give Thanks With a Grateful Heart" has been suggested as a song to be used for thanksgiving? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 21:59, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
However alt2 is completely obvious and not telling us any more than the title which says "give thanks"! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 05:33, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
  • What do you mean, "incorrectly". They didn't know the author, so they correctly listed it as "unknown authorship". Fram (talk) 07:35, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
    Alteration made. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 07:42, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
    • "Interesting" is definitely part of the DYK hook criteria. I'm quite surprised you've never read WP:DYK, or you'd have noticed it earlier on the page than the DYKHOOK section: The hook should include a definite fact that is mentioned in the article and interesting to a broad audience. Now that you know, I'm sure you'll keep it in mind when creating future hooks. You might also want to read the full text above the DYK editing window, since you've not noticed that it also lists the "interesting to a broad audience" hook criterion, and quite a bit else besides. BlueMoonset (talk) 08:16, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
  • New reviewer needed for ALT3. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:27, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
  • Hook ALT3 is short enough at 179 chars, and is interesting enough. ALT3 is in the article, cited, and confirmed in the reference (sounds like a case of copyfraud to me) Given the earlier assessment this is good to go with alt3. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:30, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
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