- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:51, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
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Gustavus Murray
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Gustavus Murray
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that British obstetrician Gustavus Murray was the son of the registrar of slaves for Trinidad?ALT1:... that the popular Gustavus Murray stopped contributing to medical journals as his obstetric practice became too busy?[[1]]- ALT2:
... that a symbol of professional devotion, Gustavus Murray inspired Fildes to use him as a role model?
- Reviewed: American Base Hospital No.57
Created by Philafrenzy (talk),Whispyhistory (talk), Edwardx (talk) and LoopZilla (talk). Nominated by Philafrenzy (talk) at 20:24, 17 December 2017 (UTC).
Interesting bio, well sourced, no copyvio obvious. - I am not so happy with the hooks. The first says almost nothing about him, wonder what "popular adds to ALT1, which describes him as stopping something, and lost interest in ALT2 when reading "a symbol of professional devotion". I didn't understand model "for a painting". - I will approve ALT1, if you don't find anything more positive. Waiting for qpq also. - Please read the article again and avoid living in three sentences in a row, and fix "when he because ill and died at Christmas 1877". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:34, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
- I can only speak for the first hook Gerda. Basically he is worthy but not particularly interesting and that was the best I could come up with. I will take another look. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:13, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
- ALT3:... that in 1858, the obstetrician Gustavus Murray claimed to be able to identify the parts of a fetus, including each vertebra, through an abdominal examination of a pregnant woman? Pinard referred at some length to the pioneer work of Gustav Murray, who had written an article on abdominal palpation of the foetus in the Lancet in 1858. This seems to have been generally ignored by Murray’s contemporaries in England, and indeed.....few could accept his assertions that he could actually count the foetal vertebrae through the mother’s abdominal wall, and distinguish the breech by palpation of the cleft between the foetal buttocks.[[2]]
I think this may be the better hook we need here thanks to Whispyhistory's expansion of the article. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:48, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
- That sounds a bit sensational, bordering unbelievable, no? How about just that he was a pioneer of prenatal examination of a fetus? Whatever, the source about him needs to go right after the fact that he claimed. I don't find his name in the other source (#13), - what does it reference? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:26, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
- He "claimed" or could say "asserted". I've added source. Is that helpful? The other source cites that examination of pregnant abdomen done only at labour. Pioneering antenatal examination is also appearing correct Whispyhistory (talk) 19:49, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
- I understand better. How about you word a hook about that, and approve both? Thank you for adding this interesting fact! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:13, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
- He "claimed" or could say "asserted". I've added source. Is that helpful? The other source cites that examination of pregnant abdomen done only at labour. Pioneering antenatal examination is also appearing correct Whispyhistory (talk) 19:49, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
- That sounds a bit sensational, bordering unbelievable, no? How about just that he was a pioneer of prenatal examination of a fetus? Whatever, the source about him needs to go right after the fact that he claimed. I don't find his name in the other source (#13), - what does it reference? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:26, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
- ALT4:
... that 19th century Pinard recognised Gustavus Murray's pioneering concepts of feeling fetal parts in the prenatal period, when others did not?[[3]] - ALT5:
... that in 1889, French obstetrician Adolphe Pinard recognised Gustavus Murray's forgotten innovative work in the examination of pregnant women?[[4]]
I like all the hooks, maybe ALT 3 and 4 better Whispyhistory (talk) 05:46, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
- ALT6:
... that Gustavus Murray's methods of examining the pregnant woman, published in The Lancet in 1858, received little attention in his lifetime?
- Good starts. I don't think we want to mention a French person by name, if the goal is to attract readers to Murray. In ALT6, not knowing that he is a physician, "the pregnant woman" makes me wonder which specific one, and I believe that the word fetus should appear, because as far as I understand that was special. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
- ALT7:... that Gustavus Murray's methods of palpating fetuses in pregnancy, published in The Lancet in 1858, received little attention in his lifetime?
- Thanks. I put in fetus and modified ALT6. Whispyhistory (talk) 10:36, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
- ALT8:
... that Gustavus Murray's methods of examining the fetus in utero, published in The Lancet in 1858, received little attention in his lifetime?Philafrenzy (talk) 11:50, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
ALT7 works for me, thank you! The image is licensed and gives a welcome feelling for the period. - I saw ALT8 only later, think it's a good link, but not that "utero" is a good idea to mention. - Hope I didn't destroy things by repairing an edit conflict. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:50, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
