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Template:Did you know nominations/Henri Fertet

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:12, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

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Henri Fertet

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  • ... that Henri Fertet (1926–1943) was a French schoolboy and Resistance fighter who was executed as a terrorist by the German forces occupying France during World War II, and that on 5 June 2019 French president Emmanuel Macron at a 75th anniversary Europe-wide commemoration of the 1944 Normandy landings read out part of his farewell letter to his parents, written on the morning of his execution?
  • Comment: Translated from fr:Henri Fertet, but expanded and with more citations.
    I haven't included his posthumous honours in the draft hook: they were rather to be expected under the circumstances, they make a long list, and IMO they don't add to the essence of the story.
    (If anyone here knows how to put File:Henri Fertet.jpg into the French article, please do so. After reading the guides in four languages on how to move images into Commons, I am none the wiser.)

Created by Narky Blert (talk). Self-nominated at 22:46, 11 December 2019 (UTC).

Substantial article, and much more substantial than the French one, on excellent sources which - mostly French - I accept AGF, no copyvio obvious. What you propose for a hook is a load of material from which you will have to pick something concise, begin with ALT1, and below please. If I was you, I'd take the image of the street sign, which would tell us "martyr of the resistance" already, so you can focus on something else. I like the lead sentence about the letter. Youmay also consider Macron reading from it. Good luck, and many thanks for a valuable article! - Ah, for how get the image of the boy to the commons, I call David. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:20, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
  • --evrik (talk) 20:13, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the suggestions. I'd mention the age when talking about the execution, am not sure about "martyred", and would write ALT2 completely the other way round, beginning with Macron as someone known. Just ideas. I'm still watching, so you don't need another reviewer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:06, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
  •   Let's see what we have here: Article is long/new enough, sources are reliable, there are no copyright violations, image is licensed properly, hooks are cited and interesting (I personally prefer ALT1 since it is shorter and interesting), article is stable, QPQ not required, and no copyediting needed since it readers clearly.
Now, I added multiple [Citation needed] tags because there are paragraphs and information that need verification. The DOB/POB in the infobox is unsourced too. Please add that info in the body paragraphs. I also have a question about the footnotes, specifically for the transcript he wrote. A lot seem to be interpretations of what Fertet meant. Are those your interpretations of what he meant, or can you cite those to an expert/historian? If they are your interpretations then they have to be removed. Footnotes require sources too. Please ping me when this is done. MX (✉ • ✎) 20:08, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
  • @Narky Blert: Did you want to cite the five flagged facts? --evrik (talk) 16:35, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
  • As we have not heard anything from Narky Blert despite multiple pings, I am noting this fact with a more serious icon. The issues raised by MX are significant and need to be addressed without further delay. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:23, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
@Narky Blert: Unfortunately, if there is no response from you within the next few days, as there are still issues remaining that have not been resolved, the nomination may be marked for closure as unsuccessful. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:42, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
MX, I'd hate to see this information lost to the Main page. I have no time, but took some to help this. The citation tags are gone. The footnotes seem no interpretations to me but explanations of allusions in the letter. If you think that is not permitted, just remove them. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:06, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Big thanks to Gerda for her help here. I've removed some of the unsourced foonotes because they should be treated as claims of absolute certainty. Unsourced material should not be included and this is non-negotiable. My previous review stands and I see no further issues for this promotion to the Main Page. Alt1 is the shortest and is interesting. MX (✉ • ✎) 15:17, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
  • I was on the verge of promoting this, using ALT1 reflecting MX's preference because I thought it was interesting that Fertet should have been considered a terrorist so long ago, but checking the cited source (2) I couldn't find anything along those lines, nor could I find it in source 5. (I had to rely on Google translate to assess the source wording, but there doesn't seem to be anything related in the original French as best I can tell.) Since that wording is also in the article, I think it either needs a specific source, or the terrorist characterization needs to be removed from the article. For now, I am striking ALT1, though if I am mistaken, it can certainly be unstruck. However, until this issue is settled, the article should not be promoted, hence the new status icon. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:05, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
I removed terrorist from the article. and asked a French user to check for any ref that would support it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:59, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
  • I've relisted Alt1a below; it's the old Alt1 without the "terrorist" claim:
  • Alt1a: ... that sixteen-year-old Henri Fertet was a French Resistance fighter who was executed by the German forces occupying France during World War II?
Pinging MX to check Alt1a and to give this review a new tick if it makes the grade. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:07, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Source 1 backs up his age at the moment of his death by German forces during the war. All this is mentioned in the article. I've made several copyedits throughout the article too to prepare it for the Main Page. MX (✉ • ✎) 17:40, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Hi, I came by to promote this, but the page has quite a few "page needed" tags. Yoninah (talk) 20:33, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
It's all the to the same offline French book. I feel rather helpless. I couldn't read it on whatever page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:00, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Yoninah, I think this is between you and MX, who both gave this an AGF tick and at the same time added the "page needed" tags that look like they might sink this. If those tags are going to keep this article from making the main page, then let's close it. If someone's willing to search the google books source in the hopes of finding some of them (and can deal with the French text), we could perhaps do away with the others (two of the five have at least one other source citation). BlueMoonset (talk) 04:23, 5 February 2020‎ (UTC)
LouisAlain, could you perhaps help, trying to find the pages on which three facts are mentioned in the online version. - Would it be an alternative to remove the three facts which have only this citation? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:30, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
  • Having taken care of the "page needed" templates added by MX and viewed as an impediment to promotion by Yoninah by removing all five uses of the source—not needed in one place, replaced in two, and the affected material commented out in the remaining two—this should be ready for the main page. Yoninah, will you do the promotion honors? Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:23, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
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