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Template:Did you know nominations/John Tiedtke

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:19, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

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John Tiedtke

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  • ... that John Tiedtke was an heir to a grocery and department store fortune, and his proudest accomplishment was philanthropic founding of a Bach festival? Source: "Tiedtke’s most notable contribution to the arts was his involvement in the Bach Festival. Since 1950 he had served as the president of the Bach Festival and turned the program into the high quality performances that it is today." Furrow and here and there

5x expanded by 7&6=thirteen (☎), Wilcley (talk), and StrayBolt (talk). Self-nominated at 19:19, 1 March 2020 (UTC).

ALT 1 ... that John Tiedtke, an heir to a grocery and department store fortune, was the philanthropic founder of a Bach festival? Source: "Tiedtke’s most notable contribution to the arts was his involvement in the Bach Festival. Since 1950 he had served as the president of the Bach Festival and turned the program into the high quality performances that it is today." Furrow and here and there
ALT 2 ... that John Tiedtke, an heir to a grocery and department store fortune, lead, perpetuated and funded a Bach festival, that fluorished under his leadership?
  • @7&6=thirteen: Hi, I will review this. I don't know what happened with the wikicode, but I fixed it. I respect that Cunard has contributed greatly to this page's AFD discussion to show that it's notable, but unfortunately, he has never edited the article so I have removed his name from the nomination. epicgenius (talk) 21:12, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
  • @7&6=thirteen: I don't think he "founded" the Winter Park Bach Festival, but kept it going. StrayBolt (talk) 21:26, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
  • If this is the case, the article and hook should be amended accordingly. epicgenius (talk) 21:39, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
  • He was Chairman of the Board of Trustees for over 50 years.[1] StrayBolt (talk) 21:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

General eligibility:

  • New enough: Yes
  • Long enough: Yes
  • Other problems: No - Currently subject of AFD, so that will have to be resolved before this is approved or denied.

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: epicgenius (talk) 21:17, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Reply I have put in multiple sources establishing that the Tiedtke Family Mausoleum is at Woodlawn Cemetery (Toledo, Ohio). The only source I could find that explicitly places his remains in the crypt is this one at Find a Grave Did you know nominations/John Tiedtke at Find a Grave. I do not have access to Woodlawn Cemetery records. I know that there are those who opine that Find a Grave is "not a reliable source." I've always thought that to be doctrinaire and not well thought out. In any event, I have no better source at my finger tips.
The proposed alternate hook is fine with me.
The AFD will soon be inevitably and satisfactorily resolved in due course. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:40, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
epicgenius AFD closed as KEEP. Per the closer: "The result was keep Since relisting to allow for examination of the sources, a consensus has emerged that the article should be kept." 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:32, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
Everything looks in order, but since I can't approve my own hooks, we will have to wait for another reviewer. epicgenius (talk) 14:12, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
I like it. Great work on this article! Lightburst (talk) 04:03, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
Hook tweaked. AFD closed as Keep. We only need a new reviewer? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:16, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

The first paragraph in the "Career" section is not cited. It appears that the similar citation from the lead section could be duplicated here? Flibirigit (talk) 02:55, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Flibirigit Added citation to first paragraph under "Career." Are we GTG? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:23, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
One other question, sorry. Is there a citation for his birth and death dates? I agree with the above concerns that he did not found the Bach Festival, but rather took it over after the founder died. ALT1 will need some adjustment. ALT0 seems very subjective with the words "his proudest accomplishment". Could a reworded hook be suggested? Flibirigit (talk) 02:06, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Put in more citations that show birth and death date. As to "proudest accomplishment" you are right that is subjective. "Philanthropic founder" isn't. Struck original hook. Alt seems clear and unambiguous. It is also cited and verified. WP:Verifiability, WP:Not truth. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 10:54, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
I am struggling to understand "philanthropic founder" in the same sentence with the Bach Festival. I don't see any source which uses those words. I see that he was a philanthropist, and I see that the founded other things, but I do not see where is says he was the philanthropic founder of the Bach Festival. Flibirigit (talk) 08:19, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
I appreciate your struggle. You are right, They don't use those exact word. But this is a fair representation of what the sources say.
Nevertheless these sources show him to be a great force in the creation, development, direction, funding and success of that festival. Here is what they say:
  • "Tiedtke’s most notable contribution to the arts was his involvement in the Bach Festival. Since 1950 until his death, he served as the president of the Bach Festival and turned the program into the high quality performances that it is today.""History: The Bach Festival Society of Winter Park". [In 1950] Rollins President Hugh McKean asked John M. Tiedtke, the treasurer of Rollins College, a music lover, and an astute businessman, to fill the opening and he agreed. Mr. Tiedtke served as Chairman of the Board of Trustees until his death in December 2004. Under his leadership, the Bach Festival Society expanded its programming to include two additional choral programs beyond the annual Festival, top-tier visiting soloists and ensembles, and community events in Winter Park.
  • "Mrs. Isabelle Sprague-Smith, a former New York artist and school principal, was the president and driving force behind the Bach Festival from 1935 until her death in 1950. At Mrs. Sprague-Smith’s death, the future of the Bach Festival was uncertain. Rollins President Hugh McKean asked John M. Tiedtke, the treasurer of Rollins College, a music lover, and an astute businessman, to fill the opening and he agreed. Mr. Tiedtke served as Chairman of the Board of Trustees until his death in December 2004. Under his leadership, the Bach Festival Society expanded its programming to include two additional choral programs beyond the annual Festival, top-tier visiting soloists and ensembles, and community events in Winter Park." [2]. The citations are already in the article.
  • Orlando Magazine noted that Tiedtke was "a savior to nearly every arts organization in town, including the Bach Festival, Florida Symphony Orchestra, Orlando Museum of Art, Orlando Opera, and Festival of Orchestras—all that besides being a founder/funder of United Arts of Central Florida".
What do you suggest would be acceptable to you? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:00, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
User:Flibirigit I've added ALT2 to try to address your concerns. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:47, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Approving ALT2 with the adjustment noted by the strikethrough. Led and perpetuated are redundant with his leadership. Hook is verified and properly cited inline. Article meets all other DYK criteria. Flibirigit (talk) 05:32, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
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