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Template:Did you know nominations/Lunch (song)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Sohom Datta talk 01:27, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK toolbox

Lunch (song)

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Converted from a redirect by PSA (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 17 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

‍  PSA 🏕️  (talk) 03:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Generally well-written, sources are okay, hook is interesting. Just a small recommendation, links to Rolling Stone and Coachella 2024 can be added. Good to go! Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 11:10, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Hooks must not be likely to change, and that album's probably going to come out. (Probably.)--Launchballer 23:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
Well, it's released now @Launchballer so...

PSA 🏕️🪐 (please make some noise...) 03:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Fine by me.--Launchballer 06:50, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

@PSA, Prince of Erebor, Launchballer, Geni, Kusma, and Z1720: reopening this nom page per discussion at WT:DYK. I personally agree with the sentiment expressed there that including mention of Eilish's sexuality is not suitable for the main page, when she's explicitly said she doesn't accept the concept of outing. Suggest we go with Kusma's alt or something else. Full discussion to be copied below.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:18, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Moved from Wikipedia talk:Did you know
 –  — Amakuru (talk) 20:21, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
Currently in prep 7. Hook doesn't appear to be neutral. If I'm reading the sources correctly Eilish is rejecting the term outing which the hook uses.©Geni (talk) 05:35, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
My reading of the sources is that Eilish is objecting to actually being outed; if she had a problem with the term, she wouldn't have used it in the Instagram post mentioned in the Background section.--Launchballer 14:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
From what I read in the source [1], she said "i like boys and girls leave me alone about it please literally who cares." so I am not sure focussing on her sexuality (instead of on the song) is appropriate for the Main Page. —Kusma (talk) 14:46, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
"Alt2 ... that Billie Eilish included a song about lesbian sex on her third album?"--Launchballer 14:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
Not very hooky but its really up to @User:PSA in terms of what they want to do.©Geni (talk) 08:48, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
@Launchballer @Kusma @Geni:
Alt3 ... that Billie Eilish included a song about lesbian sex on her third album after gradually becoming more public about her sapphism? PSA 🏕️🪐 (please make some noise...) 02:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
I prefer Launchballer's version because it does not talk about Eilish's sexuality in the hook. —Kusma (talk) 05:52, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
From the gay times article "Eilish also criticised the notion that a person has to ‘come out’ as queer" I read that has Eilish rejecting the term.©Geni (talk) 08:48, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
It's more like "no one has to feel pressured to tell people theyre LGBT" to me. not necessarily a rejection of the concept PSA 🏕️🪐 (please make some noise...) 08:52, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Well perhaps. In practice Z1720 aproved the hook some time ago so its all moot at this point.©Geni (talk) 19:33, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
What else needs to be done to this?--Launchballer 17:23, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
New reviewer needed on the hook issue. I've just struck all the hooks that talk about outing or sapphism; there's enough disagreement about including these in the hook (which I agree with) that it isn't going to fly, much though others still want to include it. Whatever Z1720 may have approved in the past, we're clearly past that point now. The only hook left seems to be Launchballer's above, which Geni described as "not very hooky"; maybe a new hook with a different approach is needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:38, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
  • Approving Alt2. --evrik (talk) 22:39, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

How about:

©Geni (talk) 19:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

My proposal:

none of it directly mentions Eilish's sexual orientation so I hope this should be okay . PSA 🏕️🪐 (please make some noise...) 01:52, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

  • Approving Alt 3 and Alt 4. --evrik (talk) 02:01, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Something for the promoter:

  • "Alt3a ... that Billie Eilish first served Lunch during a secret DJ set?" --evrik (talk) 02:04, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't see how Alt3a is backed up by the Vulture source; while it talks about a "DJ set" (and do we really expect people to know what that even means? it's certainly not a commonly understood term, so it makes for a confusing hook rather than an interesting one), Vulture never uses the term "secret"—©Geni, I think this needs to be revised in the article, and evrik, I've struck both variants of this second Alt3 hook because of this problem. PSA, thanks for trying with Alt4, but I'm unconvinced by the comparison of the song to the Stonewall riots: Allison Hope makes a comparison to one prominent person at Stonewall, and it feels like the article has cherry-picked this particular bit from the CNN story for the purpose of creating a hook (and not bothered to quote "provocative" there while doing so in the hook, a no-no). I do hope something can be found; there might be something in this CNN opinion piece that can be used—perhaps the "confrontational" nature to a figure from Stonewall—but given how the piece centers on "queer-centered sexuality", that may well be too difficult to maneuver around. Maybe there's something else out there? evrik, I suggest that you bow out of reviewing any further hooks for this article, since you've approved several that have issues that should have been picked up on, not given ticks. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:25, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
  • "Alt3b ... that Billie Eilish first served Lunch during a private party at Coachella?"Gonzalez, Alex. "Billie Eilish Previewed A New Song, 'Lunch,' During Coachella And Its Lyrics Are So Explicit Fans Are Having Fits Online". Uproxx. --evrik (talk) 03:46, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
      • @BlueMoonset: i'm not sure I can parse what's happening. The intention was to highlight "the 'confrontational' nature to a figure from Stonewall" as you put it, but the hook kind of already does that? I think we should just edit the hook to match that wording more:
Alt4a "that the 'confrontational' nature of one Billie Eilish song was compared to a prominent figure of the Stonewall riots?
Also, no offense, but I, as a queer person myself, do not get why we're so hung-up on absolutely not mentioning Eilish's sexual orientation when she's been open about it so many times. I must be missing something here. PSA 🏕️🪐 (please make some noise...) 03:45, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
I believe that a new reviewer is needed for ALT4a. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:03, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
The reviewer should also check ALT3b. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:19, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Both ALT3b and ALT4a check out. Let's roll.--Launchballer 11:50, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
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