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Template:Did you know nominations/Mad Dog O'Malley

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 13:29, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Mad Dog O'Malley

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  • ... that professional wrestler Mad Dog O'Malley, a 500 lbs. Irish brawler, was billed "from the dog pounds of Dublin, Ireland"?

Created/expanded by 72.74.208.19 (talk). Self nom at 17:04, 11 October 2011 (UTC)



Length and date look fine, but I was unable to verify the hook. The only source appears to be an offline version of Pro Wrestling Illustrated, but despite extensive searching, I was unable to locate a copy. I would also question whether PWI is a reliable source, and since we are dealing with a biography of a living person, it would be better if this kind of hook were more verifiable, with multiple sources. --Elonka 18:54, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

The hook fact is stated in the article but is not supported by citations there.Dan arndt (talk) 08:29, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

  • I'm not saying this article should pass because Frank Stalletto did. This exact complaint was brought in the Stalletto article and Pro Wrestling Illustrated, specifically its PWI 500 issues, have been accepted as legitimate offline references. In the article I refer to, a source was provided proving the issue exists and that the wrestler was listed in it. Previous editors have been willing to assume good faith so it doesn't seem unreasonable to presume it wouldn't be in this case.
From his 1996 PWI 500 ranking,
"Rulebreaker "from the dog pounds of Dublin, Ireland" ... Big man who uses his bulk to wear down opponents ... Surprising agile for a man his size ... Has an effective powerslam ... Defeated Morgus the Maniac in several recent matches ..."
A source verifying the existence of the 1996 PWI 500 issue can be found here and his being listed here. I'm sure a member of WP:PW can confirm this. 72.74.209.96 (talk) 20:02, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
That he is listed on the PWI 500 is well sourced. That he was referred to as being "from the dog pounds of Dublin" is not. Unless another source can be found to affirm that tagline, it would be best to choose a different hook for DYK. --Elonka 14:56, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
  • If the hook is offline, and the source is reliable, it is okay to assume good faith. The hook fact does not have to be online, although it's preferred. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:10, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
  • True, but PWI is not a reliable source. It is a wrestling magazine which routinely mixed fact and fiction about the wrestling world. Plus, let's remember that we are dealing with a Biography of a living person here, where the requirements for solid sourcing are more stringent. If the only source for a statement is in an offline magazine of questionable reliability, and there are no other sources which verify the information, it would not be wise for Wikipedia to banner such a statement on the front page. --Elonka 03:31, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
  • I own the issue in question and have it sitting beside me as I type this. I can confirm that it states exactly what has been claimed. I also would like to voice my disagreement with Pro Wrestling Illustrated being an unreliable source. Obviously, it is from a major publisher and is a well-established publication with editorial oversight. That alone is enough to demonstrate its reliablity. This seems to be yet another case of "One rule for everyone else, and another rule for professional wrestling." Although I could ramble for hours about the topic, suffice it to say that PWI did mix fact and fiction, and it should obviously never be used as a source to claim that an "in-universe" happening actually took place (eg. Paul Bearer actually being buried alive). That would be absurd and negligent. The claim in question here, however, makes it clear that the statement is written "in-universe" because it is careful to include the words "was billed from". That's neither controversial nor hard to believe. Professional wrestlers are billed from all sorts of ridiculous places. It would be wrong to state that PWI's write-up proves that O'Malley actually lived in a dog pound in real life, but that is clearly not the claim being made. GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:40, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks, but I am still uncomfortable approving a DYK hook when there is only one single questionable source for the information. Can any other sources be found? If not, the information probably shouldn't be in a BLP article to begin with. --Elonka 04:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
  • I have to agree with Mr. Coleman's fan here; wrestlers go for extravagant and at times obnoxious stage personas, and with a nickname like "Mad Dog" it seems clear that he doesn't mind. As I prefer we all reach an agreement here, and the article itself is pretty decent, perhaps ALT2 ... that Mad Dog O'Malley teamed with Lucifer to take down his former partner? It's not referenced to PWI. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:32, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks, I would be willing to support ALT2 as a hook. --Elonka 16:48, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Why not just reword the hook to state ALT3 "...that Pro Wrestling Illustrated once claimed that professional wrestler Mad Dog O'Malley was from "the dog pounds of Dublin, Ireland" ? 72.74.214.250 (talk) 23:18, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
    • Why is it so important to get such a flimsily sourced claim about a living person, onto the front page of Wikipedia? If it's something O'Malley is genuinely notable for, there will be more than one source for it. As it is, the entire article is weak. What was O'Malley's real name? When was he born? How did he get into wrestling? Was he really from Ireland, or was that just part of the fictional backstory? It's looking unlikely that the article will ever be expanded much more than it is now. --Elonka 23:41, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
      • I think a new, unbiased reviewer who is open to following Wikipedia and DYK guidelines would be the best option. In the event that the reviewer insists on keeping her fingers in her ears, however, I might suggest combining this with the Bob Starr nomination from October 14 as a double hook stating ALT4 "...that professional wrestlers Mad Dog O'Malley and Bob Starr have both teamed up with Lucifer?" (with appropriate wikilinks, of course). GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:56, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Unless there are any other objections, I'll go ahead and get this approved for ALT2. --Elonka 02:55, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I prefer numbers 1 and 4. GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:37, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
Length, date, refs all good to go, with ALT2: "... that Mad Dog O'Malley teamed with Lucifer to take down his former partner?" --Elonka 16:02, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
What about numbers 1 and 4? GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:16, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
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