Template:Did you know nominations/Marie Herndl

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 23:27, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Marie Herndl

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Herndl in 1899

... ~~that Marie Herndl (pictured) believed in her own art so much, that in 1904 she attempted to contact President Teddy Roosevelt in person, and she was arrested by the US Secret Service?~~ Source: Source
- ALT1: ... ~~that when officials at the 1893 World's Fair tried to hide Marie Herndl's (pictured) nude artwork she convinced others to give it an even better spot at the fair?~~ Source: Source
- Reviewed: ~~Template:Did you know nominations/Yasmin Miller~~

Created by Bruxton (talk). Self-nominated at 04:36, 19 December 2021 (UTC).

Comment: the QPQ for Template:Did you know nominations/Yasmin Miller is ineligible here, as the principal review was conducted by someone else (me). However, as you currently have 2 approved hooks and three awaiting review, you do not need to provide a QPQ yet. These will be the last for your QPQ exemption; all your future nominations will require a QPQ. Mindmatrix 20:23, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
- -- new enough, long enough, hooks look decent. Consider, however, whether ALT0 might be able to be rephrased to be a little more concise. The article seems well sourced and free from copyvio for the most part. Some questions about the content: What is "wrong way out"? I suspect "May 14, 1012" is a typo? You never cite her DOB-- in fact, a source, contradicts what you list. Are FNs 1 and 13 duplicates? Image is OK, definitely PD. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 18:20, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

@Eddie891: I used a photo of her actual tombstone for her birth year of 1860. The 1012 was a typo and I just corrected it to 1912. Regarding "wrong way out" since it was stained glass it was still visible, and she perceived it as a slight. The organizers turned her glass backwards. Regarding the hook, I am open to changes. Thank you much for reviewing! Bruxton (talk) 04:31, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Just noticed the duplicate reference mentioned by @Eddie891: so I consolidated 1 and 13. If all issues are now fixed please review. How about a new ATL0

ATL0a:... ~~that Marie Herndl (pictured) was once arrested by the United States Secret Service for trying to get President Theodore Roosevelt to see her artwork?~~ Source: Source Bruxton (talk) 17:44, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Full review is needed to advance. Merry Christmas all. Bruxton (talk) 03:48, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

A full review is not needed to advance, given that I've already conducted most of one. I like the concision of ALT0a, but the source suggests she wanted to paint Roosevelt, not to have him see her artwork. Can you clarify which is the case? Happy Holidays, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:17, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

I also went ahead and found a source to cite the birth date to. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:22, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you @Eddie891:. And thank you for locating a source for her birthday year. In this reference she was anxious to know that her painting of George W would be viewed since Roosevelt did not view it Saturday. She called on the president to "persuade him to see the picture". The article does begin by saying she wanted to paint his picture. But her years long effort to see that the painting would be purchased by the U.S. government is well documented. Bruxton (talk) 23:37, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

I'm a little confused. The first sentence of that reference says that she broke in "...for the expressed purpose of painting the picture of President Roosevelt." The last paragraph of the article, which you quoted, contradicts this. Which is right? Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:07, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

this lines up with purchasing, and places a commission for Roosevelts portrait as coming in the arrest's aftermath while this says it was to paint Roosevelt's portrait. In the absence of a source resolving the two conflicting accounts, the article should mention both and the contradiction between sourcing, and the hook could maybe read "that artist Marie Herndl was arrested after trying to meet with President Theodore Roosevelt about her art?" Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:13, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

ATL0b ... that artist Marie Herndl was arrested after trying to meet with President Theodore Roosevelt about her art?

Thanks @Eddie891: it covers both of her stated intentions. Bruxton (talk) 21:40, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for hanging on with me. I'm satisfied, but I think I'm too involved to approve the new hook. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 17:57, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Approving ATL0b. The elements of this hook are cited in the fourth para of the Career section of the article. Storye book (talk) 11:12, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Storye book, the review needs a tick at this point. Are you prepared to give one, or do we need someone else to take that step? Eddie891 is too involved to be able to provide that final approval icon. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:10, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I'm happy to give a tick if I can, but I'll have to do a full review to familiarise myself with the current situation. I hope that's OK. Meanwhile, the previous reviewer is of course welcome to use their review as a QPQ if they haven't already (I'm only doing a general catchup across the old nominations). Give me a few minutes, and I'll start the review now. Storye book (talk) 10:51, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: A fascinating and worthwhile article - thank you, Bruxton for uploading it. ~~Just two points -~~

What does "began working to great commissioned art" mean? Could it be that Herndl began to create great works which were commissioned? Or that she began to receive commissions which would result in great works? We are not supposed to judge here - so can we use the word "great" as a quotation with a source? (The On Milwaukee source uses that word).
Also, the phrase "badly wanted" sounds a bit too creative for an encyclopaedia. Firstly, it is perhaps too informal to work as a paraphrase of the cited source, and secondly it sounds as if we are pretending to read her mind. But we can cmmunicate in that sort of way via quotations. The source quotation is, "was very anxious that it be viewed by President Roosevelt". So please could we have the quotation (cited at the end with the newspapers.com source) instead?

~~If we can resolve these two issues,~~ this nomination should be good to go. Storye book (talk) 11:29, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Done @Storye book: Changed both. I also moved one reference which supports her years long "Fervent appeals" to get the painting purchased. Thanks for checking up on this! Bruxton (talk) 14:57, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Bruxton. Good to go. Storye book (talk) 16:10, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

ALT0b to T:DYK/P7 without image