Template:Did you know nominations/Mein Gott, wie schön ist deine Welt
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:28, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
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Mein Gott, wie schön ist deine Welt
edit_-_2._Aufl._1938.jpg)
Cover of Kirchenlied
- ... that in "Mein Gott, wie schön ist deine Welt", a 1936 hymn by Georg Thurmair, every stanza exclaims three times "how beautiful is Your world"? Source: several
- ALT1:... that Georg Thurmair published the song "Mein Gott, wie schön ist deine Welt" (My God, how beautiful is Your world) in his hymnal Kirchenlied in 1938 (cover pictured)? Source: several
- Reviewed:
to comeSutarmidji
- Reviewed:
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 14:44, 12 August 2018 (UTC).
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
- ?
| Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
The article is a good one, as Gerda's always are. Clean, well-written, sourced and admirable. I wouldn't expect the image to be chosen for the DYK lead. My only question is on the interesting-ness of the hook. Gerda Arendt, I respect you hugely, but I'm not sure there's a really "hooky" line to be pulled out of this. There doesn't seem to be much unusual about the hymn. Might this be a case where it's better to let the article attract its own admirers, without DYK involved? Of course if others see this as more intriguing than I do, or if there's a more arresting hook option, I'll gladly retract my quibble. › Mortee talk 00:58, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- It's not hooky but to write that song in Nazi Germany is unusual. Also, why not interest general readers in something they'd not normally read? Finally: I believe that we can't repeat the line often enough how beautiful our world is. I wrote the article after singing it ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:11, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- If the unusual-ness comes partly from it being written under Nazism, could the hook be altered to point that out more clearly? The dates are mentioned but I didn't make the connection myself. Perhaps other readers won't either. › Mortee talk 10:27, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- My point: the people who care about such things will make the connection. - I know that mentioning Nazi in a hook gives you 1000 extra clicks, but somehow don't want to do them the honour. Suggestions? Perhaps read Kirchenlied? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:48, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- That's a very fair thought, but I think the hooks do need something extra before they'll be broadly appealing. I'll try to think of an alternative. (And if another reviewer would like to comment on the interestingness of ALT0 and ALT1, please do). Thanks for pointing out Kirchenlied. I see it was featured at DYK already, mentioning the Nazis, so that's another good reason not to mention them here. It would be very close to a rerun. › Mortee talk 12:53, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- My point: the people who care about such things will make the connection. - I know that mentioning Nazi in a hook gives you 1000 extra clicks, but somehow don't want to do them the honour. Suggestions? Perhaps read Kirchenlied? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:48, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- If the unusual-ness comes partly from it being written under Nazism, could the hook be altered to point that out more clearly? The dates are mentioned but I didn't make the connection myself. Perhaps other readers won't either. › Mortee talk 10:27, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- It's not hooky but to write that song in Nazi Germany is unusual. Also, why not interest general readers in something they'd not normally read? Finally: I believe that we can't repeat the line often enough how beautiful our world is. I wrote the article after singing it ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:11, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- I've continued thinking and the best came up with is below. It's extra hard because the title and translation necessarily use so many characters. (I was trying to write one about thankfulness for the Creation, but couldn't get it to fit). I hope this is an improvement and welcome all feedback.
- ALT2: ... that the 1936 German hymn Mein Gott, wie schön ist deine Welt (My God, how beautiful is your world)
takes its title fromis reminiscent ofa line inan entry in poet Joseph von Eichendorff's diary?
- ALT2: ... that the 1936 German hymn Mein Gott, wie schön ist deine Welt (My God, how beautiful is your world)
new reviewer needed to decide if this or the original hooks are broadly interesting. › Mortee talk 19:36, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Do you think more readers know Eichendorff than Kirchenlied. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:28, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- No, but I think basing a hymn on a diary entry is more interesting than the name of the book the hymn was published in. › Mortee talk 22:34, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Only that it's not just a name but a program, while I'm not sure that the similarity between incipit and diary note is more than incidental. Both exist, and are similar. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Ah... if it's just a similarity, and it's not known that the hymn is based on the entry, then my ALT2 is no good at all. I got that from the article, which says "The beginning of the song uses an entry of ...". If it might be coincidental, perhaps I should strike ALT2 and the article could be clearer on that point? › Mortee talk 22:43, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Not after midnight ;) - I didn't even remember the word "coincidental", struggling with subleties of the English language. Could we say "is reminiscent of the diary entry ..."? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Haha, fair enough. "Reminiscent" sounds like it would be accurate. It'd be nice to have something more direct to say. I won't stop thinking, but I think another opinion would help here. › Mortee talk 22:54, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- I meant for the article, - off to bed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:56, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Haha, fair enough. "Reminiscent" sounds like it would be accurate. It'd be nice to have something more direct to say. I won't stop thinking, but I think another opinion would help here. › Mortee talk 22:54, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Not after midnight ;) - I didn't even remember the word "coincidental", struggling with subleties of the English language. Could we say "is reminiscent of the diary entry ..."? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Ah... if it's just a similarity, and it's not known that the hymn is based on the entry, then my ALT2 is no good at all. I got that from the article, which says "The beginning of the song uses an entry of ...". If it might be coincidental, perhaps I should strike ALT2 and the article could be clearer on that point? › Mortee talk 22:43, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Only that it's not just a name but a program, while I'm not sure that the similarity between incipit and diary note is more than incidental. Both exist, and are similar. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- No, but I think basing a hymn on a diary entry is more interesting than the name of the book the hymn was published in. › Mortee talk 22:34, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- Do you think more readers know Eichendorff than Kirchenlied. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:28, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
New day. Ideas: we could link the years to something for background. It's kind of a protest song. Even without a background, exclaiming that line again and again is unusual. - This conversation is already longer than the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:41, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
- Coming in as a second reviewer: honestly I don't find ALT2 interesting because of the poet mentioned being rather obscure outside Germany. I kind of like the original hook (ALT0, about the repetition) and I think with some work it could be interesting to a broad audience, but Mortee has objected to it. Perhaps we could try something else here, or are you willing to accept ALT0, Mortee? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:02, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5 If you're happy with ALT0, that's fine with me. Perhaps add "German hymnodist" or similar before "Georg Thurmair". › Mortee talk 10:24, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Thoughts? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:42, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- He was much more than a hymnodist, and it may even scare people away ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:43, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Thoughts? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:42, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
As there are no more apparent objections here, I'm approving ALT0. Whether or not the words "German hymnodist" should be added is up to the promoter, but to be on the safe side I'd suggest adding it. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:50, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt "poet" then? I'm suggesting that we add something because the fact that he's German is relevant to why writing a hymn under this title, repeating it each stanza, in 1936, might be interesting. › Mortee talk 20:19, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- He was a poet, writer, journalist, publisher, activist and author of documentary films, - too long, and to say just poet would reduce what he was, if you ask me. I think the title is recognizably German, and if we want to stress politics we should go for ALT1. However, we had many Nazi hooks recently. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- I took "poet" from the article we have about him. I got the idea that this being written in 1936 in Germany was important from you. This isn't me trying to push for Nazi inclusion. I'll leave this for the promoter but I'm disappointed by your edit summary. I've tried only to be helpful in keeping DYK interesting. If that's taken some time, that's what it takes sometimes. › Mortee talk 22:02, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- I apologize for the edit summary, which I meant more factual than you have perceived, and remember that you were not the only one commenting above. - I wrote "our article about him", and took the things from the lead, adding only publisher and activist. - It seems to have taken some time to arrive at where we started, and I think there's some irony in it, - should perhaps have added an emoticon of that value to the edit summary. I don't think "poet" would add any info (most hymns have texts that are poems) nor interest, sorry. I really try to avoid adding nationalities, - the only real nation is humanity, as a missed friend would have quoted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:36, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- The thing here is that Wikipedia is written for a global audience, not a German audience (and not an American one either for that matter). I don't really see the harm in adding "German poet" or even "German writer" if it's to clarify that he's German (German is a common enough language in Europe that the name could be mistaken as Austrian or Swiss, for example). I don't mind if it's not written, but at the very least hooks should be written in a way that makes them accessible and not niche. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:20, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
- Does it change the meaning of the hook about the work whether he is German, Austrian or Swiss, or Finnish? Would it add anything to say that the author of a hymn is a writer? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:48, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
- The thing here is that Wikipedia is written for a global audience, not a German audience (and not an American one either for that matter). I don't really see the harm in adding "German poet" or even "German writer" if it's to clarify that he's German (German is a common enough language in Europe that the name could be mistaken as Austrian or Swiss, for example). I don't mind if it's not written, but at the very least hooks should be written in a way that makes them accessible and not niche. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:20, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
- I apologize for the edit summary, which I meant more factual than you have perceived, and remember that you were not the only one commenting above. - I wrote "our article about him", and took the things from the lead, adding only publisher and activist. - It seems to have taken some time to arrive at where we started, and I think there's some irony in it, - should perhaps have added an emoticon of that value to the edit summary. I don't think "poet" would add any info (most hymns have texts that are poems) nor interest, sorry. I really try to avoid adding nationalities, - the only real nation is humanity, as a missed friend would have quoted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:36, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- I took "poet" from the article we have about him. I got the idea that this being written in 1936 in Germany was important from you. This isn't me trying to push for Nazi inclusion. I'll leave this for the promoter but I'm disappointed by your edit summary. I've tried only to be helpful in keeping DYK interesting. If that's taken some time, that's what it takes sometimes. › Mortee talk 22:02, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- He was a poet, writer, journalist, publisher, activist and author of documentary films, - too long, and to say just poet would reduce what he was, if you ask me. I think the title is recognizably German, and if we want to stress politics we should go for ALT1. However, we had many Nazi hooks recently. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt "poet" then? I'm suggesting that we add something because the fact that he's German is relevant to why writing a hymn under this title, repeating it each stanza, in 1936, might be interesting. › Mortee talk 20:19, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
