Template:Did you know nominations/St. Johns, Ontario

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:32, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

St. Johns, Ontario

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St. Johns Common School is the oldest extant public school in Ontario

• ... that St. Johns Common School (pictured), established in St. Johns, Ontario, in 1804, is the oldest extant public school in the province, and is still used occasionally as a classroom?[1][2][3] Source: "You are strongly encouraged to quote the source text supporting each hook" (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)
  • ALT1:... that the one-room schoolhouse (pictured) established in 1804 in St. Johns, Ontario, is the oldest extant public school in Ontario, and is still sometimes used as a classroom? Source: "You are strongly encouraged to quote the source text supporting each hook" (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)

5x expanded by Magnolia677 (talk). Self-nominated at 20:53, 9 October 2017 (UTC).

• hook ok, I prefer alt1, but both are fine. Sourcing checked. I'mnot sure bout the pdf links, but it looks like it's properly done. auntieruth (talk) 16:24, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

@Auntieruth55: Thanks for reviewing the article. This is a better source to support the hook. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:03, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

• auntieruth, please do a full review that explicitly covers all the DYK criteria. What you wrote above covers the hooks and their sourcing, and possibly the article sourcing as well. You have not covered whether the article is new enough, long and/or expanded enough, neutral, free from copyvio and close paraphrasing, whether Magnolia677 has enough DYK credits that a quid pro quo (QPQ) review is requested, and whether the image provided for this nomination is both free and properly licensed. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:13, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

• Full review needed by new reviewer, since Auntieruth55 has not returned and too many criteria were missed in the original review. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:37, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

• I will review this nomination. Mindmatrix 15:25, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
• @Magnolia677: Nominated same day as it was converted from a redirect, and is about 3200 bytes, satisfying length and date criteria. The source "The Republic of Canada Almost" on page 141 states "Short Hills" is another name for Fonthill, not St. Johns, but page 143 states "Short Hills" is another name for St. Johns; is there a reason for this discrepancy? (Another ref does refer to it as Short Hills, though.) Does ref 4 refer to: "St Johns West"; a western office in "St Johns": or is it differentiating between multiple "St Johns" (this being the western one)? I can't find details about the log cabin being built in 1799 in the three supplied refs; they all state St. Johns Common School was established in 1804. Ref 10 is a work authored by a grade 10 student, and supports only the last sentence of the first paragraph in the "decline" section; is there something more reliable? Hooks are similar, with my preference being ALT1. All facts stated in hook must be cited in the article; the date the school was created is not cited in the text (see also earlier comments). Content is neutral and free of copyvio issues. Image is properly licenced (aside: why do most of your Commons pics have Exif date removed); the cabin being depicted occupies only 1⁄4 of the pic, which may be too small at this resolution for some people. Could you perhaps crop the pic and upload it as a new file (to include the cabin, fence, walkway, and a small buffer for framing). QPQ is not required - this is the last freebie for Magnolia677, who has four other DYK credits. Mindmatrix 16:24, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

@Mindmatrix: Thanks for reviewing this DYK. Regarding:

• Short Hills being Fonthill. I must have missed the reference to Fonthill. The discrepancy should be removed or commented on in the article.
• St. Johns "West", I hadn't come across a reason for the "west", and assumed it was to avoid confusion with St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador. This official source identifies the St. Johns in the article as "west".
• The log cabin being built in 1799, this was the second source cited. Please see p. 3 under "John Darling" (the pages are not in order).
• This source, I agree it's not ideal, but it's almost certainly correct. I'd like to find the source this young man used though (his grandpa?)
• The missing source to support most of the "decline" section, my error, I missed adding this source (ref. #3), which was used at various places in the article. I've added it to that section as well.
• The picture of the cabin, I added that picture because it shows more of the village. I have another which shows just the cabin and can upload it. I remove EXIF information from my own photos because it contains way too much personal info. Cheers! Magnolia677 (talk) 19:31, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

• @Magnolia677: A few notes, and one minor issue:

• I think "west" was simply used as a disambiguator, not part of a name. I won't belabour the point, but I don't think "St. Johns West" belongs. I'll also leave it to you to determine how to handle the Fonthill/Short Hills issue; it's not required for DYK.
• Thanks for the ref updates, and pointing to the location of the info for 1799. (Aside: This is why I cite every sentence in my articles.)
• I agree that the student's work is likely right, and I'll accept it, though you should replace it with something more reliable in the future.
• You still need to add a citation to the sentence "Another early settler...", as it contains a hook fact. Please see DYKRULES, point 3b. Also note that the refs say 1804, not 1803. For example, this says "The schoolhouse that we now refer to as the St. Johns Common School was established there in 1804"; the hook should be tweaked accordingly.
• I've update the pic above per your changes to the article. Note that if you're concerned about exposing sensitive Exif data, you can use tools such as Exiftool to selectively remove those of concern, while retaining those that are relevant. Among the latter I would consider lens focal length, ISO, shutter speed, date, and perhaps GPS settings (all of which is important data for Commons). This still allows you to remove camera and lens details (particularly serial numbers) that you'd rather not reveal.

• Anyway, there's only the citation issue to take care of for DYK, and fix the hook date, then this will be good to go. Mindmatrix 22:01, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

@Mindmatrix: Corrections made to the article and this DYK template. Thanks again for reviewing this. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:06, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Good to go, with slight preference for ALT1. Mindmatrix 23:31, 27 October 2017 (UTC)