Template:Did you know nominations/Suryanath U. Kamath
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus to promote after 19 days. The concerns about the wording of the hook and the dubious reliability of http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/itihas/skamath.htm prevent this article from being placed on the main page. Cunard (talk) 23:27, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
Suryanath U. Kamath
- ... that the Indian historian Suryanath U. Kamath has denied the existence of an Aryan race?
Created/expanded by Ravichandar84 (talk). Self nom at 06:50, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
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- Is it big enough now?-RaviMy Tea Kadai 01:36, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Not quite; according to User:Dr pda/prosesize.js, it's 1390 bytes of readable prose, where the requirement is 1500. For more details on that script, see User:Dr_pda/prosesize. Frank | talk 23:57, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
- Is it big enough now?-RaviMy Tea Kadai 01:36, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
- Is it big enough now?-RaviMy Tea Kadai 11:40, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Returning to the noms page (from prep area 1) for more work. The article and hook do not accurately represent what he has said regarding "Aryan race" (and because statements about this hearken to Nazism, we need to be careful). Here's a quotation from the cited source: Refuting the existence of Aryan race or an invasion by them, he said: “The Vedas speak of a war between light and darkness which was wrongly interpreted by European scholars as a war between light-skinned and dark-skinned people. The term Dravida means ‘inhabitants of Tamil Nadu’ and not a race, and the term Aryan means ‘noble’.” The article needs to provide a more nuanced discussion of his views (and the hook needs to reflect that). --Orlady (talk) 17:33, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- The reference [1] clearly reads "Aryan race did not exist, says Suryanath Kamath", which in fact is what the hook says. --Redtigerxyz Talk 07:09, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- The article is titled "Aryan race did not exist, says Suryanath Kamath". So if you have any apprehensions that someone is misrepresenting Kamath it must be The Hindu not us. I just framed my hook based on the article-RaviMy Tea Kadai 09:19, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- The Hindu is one of India's widely read newspapers with a reputation for credibility. If Kamath had had any reservations about the article, he would have sued the newspaper, which, of course, he hadn't. So, The Hindu was probably right about what he said.-RaviMy Tea Kadai 09:24, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia can't operate on the basis that (a) if someone doesn't sue a newspaper, the newspaper must be right (let alone that it was "probably right"(!); (b) the sub-editor's choice of a headline is an accurate summary of the article or what the speaker was saying. The hook relies on the headline, not what Kamath said, and as Orlady says (and I entirely agree) we must do better than that. There is simply no way that I would be happy to see this article, let alone the hook, on the main page without much better sourcing for comments such as this. "Kamath is frequently quoted by right-wing Hindu nationalist groups" is unsourced in the article as well. BencherliteTalk 22:04, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- Now, I've also explained how The Hindu is an extremely credible, published source. I think you've completed ignored the point by me. See, thousands of articles in Wikipedia use The Hindu as a source including some GAs and FAs on India. Now, it is upto you to decide The Hindu as a reliable source or not, but most experts do. -RaviMy Tea Kadai 12:36, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- This has nothing to do with whether The Hindu is a reliable source. I fully accept it as a reliable source without any hesitation. My concern with the hook -- and the part of the article upon which the hook is based -- is that, in restating the information from The Hindu it distorts the meaning and inadvertently introduces wording that has a very negatively loaded meaning for many people.
A second concern that I have is that the article relies heavily on http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/itihas/skamath.htm -- it is not clear to me if that is a reliable source. --Orlady (talk) 13:35, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
- This has nothing to do with whether The Hindu is a reliable source. I fully accept it as a reliable source without any hesitation. My concern with the hook -- and the part of the article upon which the hook is based -- is that, in restating the information from The Hindu it distorts the meaning and inadvertently introduces wording that has a very negatively loaded meaning for many people.