Template:Did you know nominations/The Aboriginal Mother

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:09, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

The Aboriginal Mother

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... that "The Aboriginal Mother" was written in reponse to a massacre which killed 30 Aboriginal Australians and was first published eight days after seven men were found guilty of the incident? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=VZ47DwAAQBAJ&q=The+Aboriginal+Mother#v=snippet&q=The%20Aboriginal%20Mother&f=false
- ALT1:... that The Aboriginal Mother was written in response to a massacre which killed 30 Aboriginal Australians and was first published five days before seven men guilty for the incident were hung? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=VZ47DwAAQBAJ&q=The+Aboriginal+Mother#v=snippet&q=The%20Aboriginal%20Mother&f=false
- ALT2:... that "The Aboriginal Mother" was described as "a radical treatment of Aboriginal subjectivity" by Elizabeth Webby? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=zGZZDwAAQBAJ&q=The+Aboriginal+Mother#v=snippet&q=The%20Aboriginal%20Mother&f=false
- ALT3:... that the Sydney Gazette said that they "were in spite of themselves affected even to tears" after a performance of "The Aboriginal Mother"? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=zGZZDwAAQBAJ&q=The+Aboriginal+Mother#v=snippet&q=The%20Aboriginal%20Mother&f=false
- ALT4:... that "The Aboriginal Mother" is told from the perspective of a mother whose husband and child died in the Myall Creek Massacre? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=zGZZDwAAQBAJ&q=The+Aboriginal+Mother#v=snippet&q=The%20Aboriginal%20Mother&f=false

Reviewed: Ma'adin Ijafen
Comment: While I believe this topic as a whole is interesting, I'm having a hard time coming out with a good hook for DYK. It may be better to combine some of these or condense them in some way.

5x expanded by SkyGazer 512 (talk). Self-nominated at 14:06, 30 November 2018 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I agree with your concerns about the hooks. Would it be better to contrast the grief expressed in the poem with the newspaper was telling white settlers to "shoot them dead" ? Find bruce (talk) 06:28, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

@Find bruce: Thanks for the review. I'm having a hard time incoporating your suggestion into a decent hook format. Do you have any specific suggestions?--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 14:58, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

How about ALT5:... that the poem "The Aboriginal Mother" expresses grief about the massacre of 30 Aboriginal Australians at a time when the Sydney Herald told white settlers to "shoot them dead"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Find bruce (talk • contribs) 00:38, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Reviewer needed for ALT5, since it was proposed by the original reviewer. (Note: since this is an article about a poem, I've added quotes to the poem title in the hooks; I've also added quotes around "shoot them dead", since it's a direct quote from the Herald.) BlueMoonset (talk) 14:28, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Bluemoonset. SkyGazer 512 had included the quote marks around the title, but I had removed them. Thanks for fixing my mistake. I was waiting to see if SkyGazer 512 wanted to comment on ALT5 & I am happy to help with any tweaks to the hook. As you say though, a new reviewer is required. Find bruce (talk) 23:54, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, I must have accidentally removed this from my watchlist. It was not on there previously, apparently, which is why it took me so long to reply again; my apologies. I'll explain this in much more detail and tweak the article tomorrow when I have more time, as I'm about to go to bed now, but before this is approved I would like to point out that the content of ALT5 isn't currently in the article exactly as the hook words it, solely because I misread information from the book. Thank you for the review and the new suggestion, and again, I'll be onto this tomorrow.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 03:45, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

@Find bruce: Ok, so I misread what the Sydney Herald had said because the book was unclear; apologies for that. To me it seemed like the book was contrasting how the poem was peaceful about the murder of the Aboriginals but the Sydney Herald was telling people to shoot the white settlers dead. However, looking at the actual newspaper article, it seems like they're saying that if the Aboriginals perform a similar action to "you" as the white settlers did in the massacre, to shoot them dead. The hook might should clarify this a bit further. I'll let you respond with more details before I modify the article in this respect.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 04:52, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

@SkyGazer 512: it's easy to see how "filthy savages" fits more easily with the murderers than the victims & I have clarified this in the article. I am not seeing why ALT5 would need to be clarified. If you are referring to the qualification listed by Herald about property destruction or murder, the article was published on 14 November 1838, after the 1st trial & before the 2nd when there was no allegation that the white stockman were defending themselves from attack. Further the article refers to Aboriginal Australians in dehumanising terms as cannibals and savages. Thus despite the opening protestations, in my view ALT5 accurately reflects what the thrust of Herald was saying, to excuse their killing. Find bruce (talk) 00:16, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

@Find bruce: Thank you for the explanation and for what you changed in the article. If you think ALT5 is okay, then I don't think there is a problem with that due to your helpful clarification; it certainly is a lot more interesting than the hooks I suggested.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 04:32, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

I think its ready to go, but a new reviewer is needed for ALT5 Find bruce (talk) 23:26, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm kind of fine with the first part of ALT5 but I'm not really sure about the Sydney Herald mention. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:19, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Narutolovehinata5. The sources are Ch 4 The Aboriginal mother p 88 "the Sydney Herald led popular opinion fulminating against the Myall Creek trials in the most excessive language, eventually exhorting colonists ..." setting out the quote from the Herald of 14 November 1838. What is it you are not sure about & I will see if I can make it clear or at least come up with a better hook. What I am trying to do is highlight the opposing views of white settlers to the massacre. If you are concerned the Sydney Herald quote is a bit to guarded, perhaps this is less subtle.

ALT6:... that the poem "The Aboriginal Mother" expresses grief about the massacre of 30 Aboriginal Australians at a time when a white settler said "we are poisoning the Blacks; which is much safer; and serve them right too!"

Source: Sydney Monitor 24 Dec 1838, said just after the 7 murderers were hanged. Note this is not currently in the article about the poem, which is easily fixed, but is in the article about the massacre. Find bruce (talk) 03:06, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

The thing that I was unsure about was if the mention of the Sydney Herald was relevant when the hook was focusing on the massacre itself. In any case, ALT6 resolves that issue. I would suggest though mentioning in ALT6 that the article subject is a poem, however. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:38, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Narutolovehinata5 I have updated Alt5 & 6 Find bruce (talk) 08:45, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

@Find bruce: Thanks for the new ALT6. I've added the relevant info to the article in this edit; Narutolovehinata5, how does that look?--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 14:50, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. Giving it the thumbs up, though will let Find bruce do the honors of approving. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:05, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Is Find bruce technically allowed to approve it? WP:DYKSG#H2 states You're not allowed to approve your own hook or article. Find bruce came up with both ALT5 and ALT6 completely himself.--SkyGazer 512 ^{Oh no, what did I do this time?} 02:57, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh yeah, forgot about that.

Approving ALT6 then. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:11, 7 February 2019 (UTC)