Template:Did you know nominations/Trump (dog)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 09:36, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Trump (dog)

(

)

A drunken bear watches Trump urinate on Churchill's Epistle

Trump

Trump wearing a wig

... that Hogarth depicted Trump urinating on Churchill's Epistle (pictured)?
- ALT1:... that Trump (pictured) is pugnacious?
- ALT2:... that Trump (pictured) has been painted with a wig, and sculpted in terracotta, porcelain and bronze?
- ALT3:... that Trump wears a wig (pictured)?
- ALT4 ... that there's a picture of Trump urinating (pictured)?
- ALT5 ... that the US National Gallery of Art has a picture of Trump urinating (pictured)?
Comment: QPQ done Let me know if any other paperwork is required.

Created by Theramin (talk). Self-nominated at 01:54, 12 March 2018 (UTC).

Reviewed: Peter Addyman Theramin (talk) 02:32, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

GTG. New & long enough, usual excellent quality. Hook checks out & might indeed be good for 1 April. I hope this is not the last we see of this editor, who seems to have retired for now. Earwig throws up a couple of sentences with similar basic phrasing, but I think this is ok. QPQ done. Johnbod (talk) 18:44, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

I wonder if one of the new ALTs might be more palatable? Theramin (talk) 23:06, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

I don't see the problem mentioned below. I think this is better than the little street in the City of London, but perhaps the two can be combined, and everyone will be happy? Theramin (talk) 07:41, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

In all seriousness, running this in addition to the Trump hook (part of a set) we already have for April 1 seriously risks upsetting the applecart. I do have to say, though, that there's potential in

ALT3 ... that Trump wears a wig?

But I really think we've got all the Trump we can handle for April 1, 2018. May I suggest you hold this until 2019? We may need the comic relief even more by then. E Eng 01:46, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Alternatively EEng, we could run this Trump hook and leave the other one for another time. I'm starting to worry that if we run the other one, it's just going to get pulled in five minutes anyway by somebody who doesn't like it. Gatoclass (talk) 15:05, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

That's not a completely bad idea, but (a) I wonder whether the community's up for ANOTHER discussion on this and (b) there won't be any joke value to the Russia connection once all the indictments have been returned, whereas the wig will always be funny. Any admin pulling the set we already have, given the amount of discussion and multiple admins involved, would be wheel-warring. But let's think about it. E Eng 15:56, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

EEng, we don't have time for another discussion. I guess we'll have to run with what we've got, if the hook gets pulled, it can be replaced with one of the more innocuous versions. Gatoclass (talk) 16:01, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

If the hook gets pulled it will go right back with a pointer to the extensive discussions; re-removing it would indeed be wheelwarring. We are not at the mercy of the most clueless or timid of our 1000+ admins, as you'll recall Admin Youknowwho found out. You may recall that whatshername at WM was consulted and her response was that it's up to us here at enwp -- a clear sign there's no policy issue. E Eng 16:32, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Please somebody take this hook out of consideration for April 1. Whatever happens with the Trump Street hook will happen, and one is enough. Having a back-and-forth between the Dog and the Street at this late stage is a nightmare waiting to happen. And if there is any wheel warring over the Street hook, I will be the first editor to file at ArbCom for a desysop. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:05, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I've been thinking about this all day and I agree we should let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak. Gclass, I assume you agree? If so I'd like to ask the nominator to remove this from the April 1 page; on April 2 you can put it back so it'll be available for next year. E Eng 21:47, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately, once April 1 passes, this article loses its eligibility for an April Fools' Day appearance; it's only valid in the April 1 through March 31 year in which it is created. Since that is the case, a non-April Fools' hook should be proposed and the nomination move forward from there; that's what happens when a hook is not used for April Fools' Day. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:05, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

I wonder if the day will ever come that we can run this alone without someone demanding a balancing hook like Bernie had a corpse in his freezer. Just kidding. Let's keep this in mind and run it sometime comic relief is really needed. E Eng 17:27, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

You've already had 3 hooks, all perfectly suitable for another day. Johnbod (talk) 18:03, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Note to promoter: so far as I can tell, only the original hook has been approved, not the various ALTs. If you think one of them are preferable, then by all means call for a review of them. I don't believe the original hook should be run as is unless it is a lead hook, however. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:56, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

for all the other hooks too (Alts 1-3). I agree the original and at least the wig-mentioning ones should have the top spot with pic. Johnbod (talk) 17:29, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Sorry to prolong this but I've added an ALT4. Hookier for sure, and with some work we could work the drunken bear in too. Like I said, we could run this along with

... that Bernie had a corpse in his freezer?

E Eng 20:38, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

- Perhaps that is lost in translation, but I don't see the connection with a 2011 film. Whatever. I guess I'll just have to wait for the DYK process to work its slow magic. I don't really mind what the hook is. Have fun amongst yourselves. Theramin (talk) 23:57, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
- But if you go with the wig, I expect you might need a tighter crop, like the one above. Some clever person will have to work out how that is done. Theramin (talk) 01:05, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

The connection is that if we make implicit fun of Trump, we need to make implicit fun of some Democrat at the same time. E Eng 01:29, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Well ALT4 is verified too. Johnbod (talk) 00:36, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

@Johnbod: I would like to promote this to prep. I would like to use it without the image for the last hook in the set and personally favour ALT5. Is that hook approved? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:03, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

I can't decide whether 4 or 5 is more effective; I'd be happy with either, and neither should run with the image. 5 would need a return visit from our long suffering reviewer. E Eng 12:10, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

I rather disapprove of ALT5. There are probably over 1,000 surviving early impressions of this print, and it is inappropriate to mention in the article that any single collection has one, which was of course only added by EEng to validate the hook. If used, NGA should of course be linked. But the hook is otherwise valid, yes. Johnbod (talk) 13:42, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

My ignorance. I took my cue from the image gallery at the bottom of the article, which calls out the National Gallery of Art particularly. E Eng 14:54, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately we missed World Kidney Day, which falls in March, and I don't think we can "hold it" until Bladder Health Month in November [1]. E Eng
Hi, I came by to promote this. I read through the above discussion and understand that people are in favor of one of the hooks mentioning urinating, but I think that's in very bad taste for anything other than April Fools Day, which is known as our collegiate humor section. Can I promote ALT2 to the quirky slot? Yoninah (talk) 21:08, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

April 1 is for high school humor. The quirky slot is for collegiate humor. Personally I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue if ALT4 or 5 isn't used;it's too good to pass up. Let me remind me you that you owe your Godfather a service. See also [2] (no pressure, of course). E Eng 21:55, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

I find my disapproval of ALT5 reducing, with increasing age, and as I've said, it is valid. Or ALT 4. Johnbod (talk) 23:46, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

@Theramin, Johnbod, EEng, Yoninah, and Gatoclass: Any updates? We're approaching a month since the last comments here. In addition, since April Fool's Day is long over, it seems that a more serious hook is needed here. Which hook is preferred? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:37, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
- Updates? You've got six approved hooks to pick from, but feel free to suggest yet another one. Ignoring some of the more (or less, depending on taste) humorous suggestions, I don't see what the problem is with the entirely factual "Hogarth depicted Trump urinating on Churchill's Epistle". But you could equally go with "Hogarth depicted Trump wearing a wig". Or none at all. Whatever makes you happy. Theramin (talk) 00:59, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm with Theramin here, I think the two hooks he named are probably the most appropriate. Gatoclass (talk) 01:52, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

I support the wearing a wig hook. If you put it in the image slot, though, it spoils the joke. Yoninah (talk) 07:40, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't really agree with that. One thing is certain; the subject and name are inevitably comic, and no "more serious" hook will be found. Johnbod (talk) 20:52, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Our goal is supposed to be to draw attention to new content and so on, and A4 and A5 certainly do that best. Yoninah, where are you when I need you? E Eng 21:21, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

I missed that one, yes, I agree that ALT5 is funny, and I think we could probably get away with it in the quirky slot. Not ALT4 though. Gatoclass (talk) 05:14, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Oh, wait, you're already here. Blame it on jet lag. Anyway, I still say A4 or A5. E Eng 22:42, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Based on the comments here, I think ALT0, ALT2, and ALT5 are the most appropriate ones for promotion. Which one is up to the promoter. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:14, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

That's your cue, Yoninah. E Eng 05:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC)