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Template:Did you know nominations/Uthman ibn Sa’id al-Asadi

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by ツStacey (talk) 08:59, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

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Uthman ibn Sa'id al-Asadi

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5x expanded by Homiho (talk). Self-nominated at 07:13, 22 February 2016 (UTC).

  • The article readable prose size (2088 B and 372 words) is long enough. The article is new enough in Islam subject. Main hook is better than another one. Therefore, main hook's character count is within the legal limits and cited immediately at the end of the sentence. But ALT1 and 2 is not cited immediately at the end of sentence. Each part of ALT1's sentence is mentioned in several sources that this is against our guidelines. About ALT2, which references must be consider (5 or 8)? So, add directly citation for this sentence in the article. Please copy edit the article. Please, add references for lead sentences. Please select better title for His life before Minor Occultation and In Minor Occultation.Saff V. (talk) 08:05, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello! I enrolled the article for copy edit.
I think this is clear that the reference 8 returns to ALT2.
All of lead sentences are repeated in the text with sources and I think the titles are suitable.Homiho (talk) 13:21, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
Listing this as {{DYK?no}}, because Saff V. is quite right with his concerns about this article. Homiho, it's been three weeks since Saff's review, and most of his (very valid) points of criticism haven't been addressed yet. Please make sure this article shows signs of progress in the upcoming days, because we're running out of time.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 12:10, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
Homiho, you must add citation for lead sentences in the lead section again. Also better title is His life as heading 2, then Before minor occultation and During minor occultation as heading 3. I prefer main hook and another hooks have issues.Saff V. (talk) 13:55, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
@Saff V.: I added source for lead about heads I can't find better, If you have a better suggestion, please offer.Homiho (talk) 20:17, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
@Saff V.: I think I removed all of issues.Homiho (talk) 07:00, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
@Amberrock: There is not major issue and I copy edited some part of the article. Main hook is suitable.Saff V. (talk) 07:29, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
  • This guy's lifespan is noted in Hijri years. While that is acceptable, there must also be a Gregorian or Julian date as per WP:JG. And I'm afraid I have to disagree there are no major issues with the prose itself. Every other sentence seems to have an error. —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 09:32, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
@Amberrock: Your comment about date is right. I know that copy edit not done yet and I did a minor copy edit but major editing remain. So, I said there is not major issue means before issues or mentioned problems. I confirmed the DYK after copy edit. Saff V. (talk) 07:18, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
@Homiho: Please change birth and death date based on Gregorian or Julian date. Also, follow up copy editing.Saff V. (talk) 07:18, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Need a new reviewer to recheck the article to make sure the GOCE copyedit did the trick, and that there are no other issues remaining from the earlier review. The date seems to be CE now, though it isn't a birth and death date, being a range of seven years. (What does the initial dagger mean? Death date? Period as deputy?) BlueMoonset (talk) 05:06, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
    • The article was sufficiently expanded when nominated. The current version is free of plagiarism, so far as I can tell. It is neutrally written (or neutral enough, in any case). The hook is referenced appropriately, and meets the formatting guidelines. However, there are still a couple of minor issues. First, I know the terms "kuniya" and "minor occultation" are linked, but they are central enough to the content of the article that they should be explained in this article. There are also some issues with language; I have dropped in "clarify" tags, which should be addressed. The issue with the date at the top, raised by BlueMoonset, needs to be addressed. Finally, the hook is ungrammatical, and slightly confusing at this point; so I would propose the following (which only has grammatical changes, and therefore does not require a new reviewer;
ALT3 ... that after death of Muhammad al-Mahdi's father, al-Mahdi appointed Uthman ibn Sa'id al-Asadi as his representative, making al-Asadi the main link between al-Mahdi and the Shia community? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vanamonde93 (talk • contribs) 22:14, 11 April 2016‎ (UTC)

@BlueMoonset: Hello, I tried to remove the problems about titles and date and I enrolled the article for copy edit. I can't understand which issue is remained?!Homiho (talk) 09:38, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Homiho, you have not addressed the concerns I have raised in my review just above your comment. Please address those soon, so that I may pass this nomination; it is nearly ready. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:38, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93: I resolved the problems.Homiho (talk) 07:48, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Homiho, most issues have been resolved, but the issue with the dates is still unresolved; now he seems to have lived for 20 years, which is not realistic. Unless you can find a source for that, I would suggest removing the dates altogether; this is an acceptable solution, used in many articles about people for whom birth/death dates are not known. Also, I am assuming you are okay with ALT3? Vanamonde93 (talk) 16:28, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
Homiho, although I initially corrected the formatting of the dates, I subsequently removed them as I don't believe they are correct. It's not credible that Uthman ibn Sa'id al-Asadi lived only 20 years, from 260 to 280 AH, acting as a deputy from birth; rather, the first source (Dungersi) indicates that he was the first deputy for those twenty years (Dungersi translates his start, and the start of the minor occultation, as 260 AH and 874 AD, not 873, though I don't know whether this is actually correct.) Both the second/third and the eighth sources seem to indicate that his tenure was much shorter, ending between 264 and 267 AH; he and his son, the second deputy, seem to have had a combined tenure of 45 years, until 305 AH. Under the circumstances, the dates probably belong in the body of the article. Also, I've just fixed the second and third source links, the first of which went to a Google search page. One of these two sources copies the other, as the wording and organization is identical for the most part. Finally, the first paragraph under Kunya and title is not cited, and by DYK rules needs to be. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset: It seems the second source is original so I removed the third source. I think the problem was solved.Homiho (talk) 18:02, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93: I resolved the problems. I agree with ALT3. Homiho (talk) 18:03, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Per WP:DYKSG#D2, Homiho, the first paragraph under Kunya and title needs to be sourced (as I noted above). Please take care of this. Thank you. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset: The second source refers to all of paragraphs of part Kuniya and title. Homiho (talk) 18:52, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

In my estimation, this is now GTG. The article itself could use a lot of work, of course, because it's bare bones at this point; but I believe it passes the DYK requirements. @BlueMoonset:, do you see it differently? Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:04, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
I'm fine with your tick, Vanadmonde93. I did strike the original hook, since it has been fixed up as ALT3. Thanks to Homiho for addressing the various issues. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:17, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset:@Vanamonde93: the article is accepted by you finally??Homiho (talk) 02:24, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Homiho; "GTG" stands for "Good to go," which means that an admin can promote this nomination to the preparation area. So yes, the nomination has been accepted. Regards, Vanamonde93 (talk) 02:40, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Thank you!Homiho (talk) 02:47, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
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