Template:Did you know nominations/Weathering with You

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 19:10, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Weathering with You

(

)

~~... that more than 2,000 people auditioned for the roles of the anime film Weathering with You's two protagonists Hodaka and Hina?~~ Source: Meanwhile, he praised the film's two main voice cast members, 18-year-old Kotaro Daigo (Hodaka Morishima) and 17-year-old Nana Mori (Hina Amano). "They have wonderful voices to listen to, which can make you think that they are the boy and the girl you want to support. Since the audition with 2,000 participants, they have delivered their hand raising-like voices, like 'Look at me!' They showed great performances that convinced us that these two were here for this film." [1]
- ALT0a ... that around 2,000 people auditioned for the roles of the anime film Weathering with You's two protagonists?
- ALT1:... that the anime film Weathering with You was inspired by climate change affecting Japan? Source: Shinkai also was inspired by the impact of climate change on Japan. [2]
- ALT2:~~... that Makoto Shinkai chose a more supernatural approach on the anime film Weathering with You as opposed to the science-fiction angle he used for his previous film Your Name?~~ Source: While “Your Name” had a science-fiction angle, Shinkai went for a more supernatural approach on “Weathering With You.” [3]

Improved to Good Article status by Ainz Ooal Gown (talk). Self-nominated at 11:56, 22 July 2020 (UTC).

I've made some formatting changes to the hooks; this is the nominator's first DYK so a QPQ will not be needed. It might be a good idea for whatever hook is approved to go up on August 22, the birthday of the film's main female character Hina. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 12:39, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. As suggested by you, I have added another hook and sources. Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 13:05, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
I also wish for it to appear on the main page on August 22, are you available to review this nom, Narutolovehinata5? Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 19:08, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

I could do some of the basic checks but as I had helped suggest ALT1 and ALT2 off-wiki a different editor will need to give the final approval. For transparency I would indicate my preference for the original hook. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:19, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Article was promoted to GA status on time, no close paraphrasing was found, no QPQ is needed. Owing to the fact that I had been involved in helping with formulating the hooks over on Discord I will leave the review of the hooks to another editor. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 12:23, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Source for ALT0 indicates a round 2000, not the "more than" used in the hook and article. I would also recommend dropping the character names as not adding to the rest of the hook. ALT1 and ALT2 work, but ALT2 seems unlikely to appeal to a broad audience. Not passing for now in case ALT0 remains preferred and can be edited. Deferring to Narutolovehinata5 on the rest of the requirements. CMD (talk) 09:02, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: Would ALT0a ... that around 2,000 people auditioned for the roles of the anime film Weathering with You's two protagonists? work better? As for the other requirements, ALT0/ALT0a is cited inline and verified in the source, ALT1's source does not appear in the relevant sentence itself but rather the end of the paragraph that contains it, and ALT2 is also cited inline and verified. As mentioned above, once this is passed, it is kindly requested that this be moved to the special occasions area under August 22 for the earlier mentioned reasons. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:36, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that would be fine. If Ainz Ooal Gown is happy with it, I will pass this for 22 August. CMD (talk) 10:11, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: yeah, it's cool. Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 12:59, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

unstruck ALTs. CMD (talk) 13:12, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: then please pass this by appending yes value to the passed parameter. Ainz Ooal Gown (talk) 16:17, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I came by to promote ALT0a to Prep 5 for a daytime appearance in Tokyo on August 22. I understand why the Plot section need not be sourced, but why are all these character descriptions allowed to be unsourced? Per WP:DYK#Cited hook, each hook fact needs an inline citation. There is none for the August 22 birthday. Yoninah (talk) 18:18, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

The plot section is still unsourced.--evrik ^(talk) 16:30, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm very sorry, but whether a source for it can be found or not, a fictional character's birth date is not a valid special occasion, something we have established in the past here at DYK—such hooks have been refused a special date. If you wish to appeal this, the place to go is WT:DYK, but I hope further thought about the idea of what is truly special will result in the request being dropped. Pinging Narutolovehinata5, who has been pushing for the date, and also nominator Ainz Ooal Gown. BlueMoonset (talk) 22:39, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset and Yoninah: Some of my previous birthday-related requests (even character birthdays) have been allowed on DYK in the past so I'm not exactly sure why it's problematic this time around (in this case, it's the birthday of the film's lead female character and not just any random character). If the August 22 date won't be permitted, would running the hook on August 31 (the birthday of Nana Mori, the film's lead actress) be a suitable alternative? If not, I'd be okay with it running as a regular hook. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 22:56, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Narutolovehinata5, regular people birthdays are fine, but had I been aware of any character birthdays I would have objected then, and I'm disappointed that special occasions have become so debased that a fictional character's fictional birthday might be considered "special" and have been placed on the main page for that reason. The birthday of the lead actress seems like a stretch to me, especially as she isn't mentioned in any hook, but at least it's an actual human being. I'll leave it to Yoninah, who is more active on DYK special occasion promotions to prep, to judge whether August 31 should be considered, or if this nom should run as a regular hook. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:09, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Personally, I also think these birthday requests are getting out of hand. I just commented as much on another editor's page. To me, "special occasions" means a significant anniversary, not a random birthday. Yoninah (talk) 23:12, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Noted. If Yoninah has agreed to run this as a regular hook then I will not object. As for the character descriptions part, I thought normally they're allowed to not have citations since they're usually assumed to be cited to the source material themselves? As Ainz hasn't been on-Wiki in weeks I'm willing to take over this nomination from him and address any remaining concerns. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:23, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

I haven't looked, but you need to find the policy on running characterization text without sources. Yoninah (talk) 23:25, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

MOS:PLOTSOURCE and WP:FILMPLOT seem to be the relevant guidelines here, but they only seem to refer to plot sections and not character sections. They do suggest that discussing plot details without references is generally allowed as long as the information is descriptive and not analytical (in which case the source material is treated as a primary source). Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:39, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

That's what I thought. These detailed characterizations really need sourcing. I'm surprised that wasn't caught in the GA review. Yoninah (talk) 23:41, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Admittedly I have less experience when it comes to writing about characters but from what I understand about anime articles (I'm less familiar with the circumstances in other forms of media) "uncited" character sections are allowed and are generally the norm, even for GAs. Considering the subject is a film and not a series, wouldn't citing to the film itself suffice for character descriptions? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:51, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Maybe. But I'm not an expert. Perhaps you could ask at WikiProject Film? Yoninah (talk) 00:15, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

As the article still has issues, the date request is moot. --evrik ^(talk) 16:29, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

I've made a request over at WT:FILM asking for help. Courtesy ping to the original GA reviewer Lee Vilenski. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:09, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

- to be honest, I assumed character sections like this were also included in plot. The information on portrayal is sourced, so the rest is very plot related. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:46, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

The nominator told me off-wiki that they are currently busy in real life and so may not be able to return to the article soon, but has given me permission to adopt the nomination in their stead. @Yoninah: Apart from the Character section are there any other issues preventing this from moving forward? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:42, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I've been involved in enough film articles lately to know that the Plot section does not need sources per WP:FILMPLOT, so I removed that tag. However, the excessive descriptions of the characters do need some kind of sourcing. Perhaps these paragraphs should just be deleted?
There is also some close paraphrasing from the Variety source:
Source: Shinkai also was inspired by the impact of climate change on Japan, which has seen an increasing number of water-related disasters, including more rainfall each summer.
Article: He also added that he was inspired by the recent impact of climate change on Japan, which has seen an increasing number of water-related hazards, including more rainfall each summer.
Yoninah (talk) 18:03, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: I've changed the phrasing that matched the Variety source, and it now reads as He also added that he was influenced by the impact of climate change on Japan, particularly the increase in rainfall during the summer months. Does that work? And apart from the character descriptions, is there anything else that needs to be revised? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 05:06, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that takes care of the close paraphrasing, thanks. And no, there's nothing else except sourcing the character descriptions. Yoninah (talk) 10:32, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

I recently watched the film and for the most part the descriptions seem accurate, despite all the details. Would simply using the film itself as a reference not work? I'm not sure if there's any other way to source them otherwise without simply trimming those parts down. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:49, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Our criteria is Rule D2: at least one cite per paragraph. I have seen other film and video game articles where the characterizations do have some kind of sourcing. If you are unable to find a non-primary source, I think these characterizations should be deleted. Yoninah (talk) 13:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Noted. I'll ask for help from Tintor2 as he has more experience when it comes to writing character articles and how to source them. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 13:19, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't know about this film but when I write film characters I only put real world info rather than inuiverse info. Tintor2 (talk) 15:22, 13 September 2020‎ (UTC)

Is there any commentary from a particular voice actor? This type of real type of info tends to be more notable than fictional characters at the time of writing a DYK.Tintor2 (talk) 16:33, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

@Tintor2: I didn't find much specifically about Weathering with You (most of the interviews I could find about Mori were about her career in general or her other roles), but I did find this interview. It seems to be more about their experiences working on the film than thoughts on their characters, however. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 13:09, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: I've tried looking for sources for the character section but have come up empty. Should I simply remove the section and replace it with a cast list table, move it to a "List of Weathering with You characters" article, or cut out all but the first few sentences of each character's description? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:44, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

For example, if I were to simplify the blurb on Hina Amano to something like She is a third year junior high school student who is taking part-time jobs to support her family after her mother's death. Due to her ability to clear a localized area of rain by praying, she starts a crowdfunding website with Kodaka where she does requests in exchange for money. and do the same for the rest of the characters, would that solve the issues? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:52, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I think you should delete everything that doesn't have cites. Yoninah (talk) 13:48, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: So basically replace the character list with a cast table? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 14:04, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Yes, retaining the voice actors with cites. Yoninah (talk) 14:09, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yoninah: I've replaced the character section with a Voice cast list (which also includes one-sentence blurbs about the characters). Does this now address the concerns? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:42, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

All set, thanks. Restoring tick for either ALT1 or ALT2 per CMD's review. Yoninah (talk) 19:06, 20 September 2020 (UTC)