Template talk:Annual readership

Note. If you want a pageviews link in the tools menu see here. For a pageviews link below all article and talk page titles turn on Xtools at the bottom of the appearance section of these gadget preferences.

Currently disabled

Because of a security problem, the Graph extension has been disabled with immediate effect. More information at VPT. This of course affects the annual readership template. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:00, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Should the template output {{Graphs disabled|missing}} or something similar until the problem is fixed? PrimeHunter (talk) 14:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:00, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

Is this a permanent thing?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:29, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

The public Phabricator task is phab:T334940. It sounds like the developers would like to bring back graphs but the timeframe is unknown. If it happens then it may be with an updated version of the graph language which wil require changes in graphs. {{Annual readership}} is high profile and would probably be adapted quickly. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:00, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Latest: mw:Extension:Graph/Plans#Roadmap. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:11, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 4 June and 9 June 2023

Description of suggested change: Although the TfD is ongoing, it's looking like this template won't be deleted. In the course of that discussion it was noted that editors may not notice that the link in the banner title links to the pageviews website where annual readership statistics are still available. (It's easy to assume it just goes to a general help or explainer page, rather than an external tool, and miss it.)

I suggested amending the template's message to ensure that anyone who doesn't notice the link and expands the template has a second chance to notice. Another editor, Timeshifter, agreed. The text I suggested was:

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled.

Until they are enabled again, click on "daily pageviews" in the banner title for annual readership statistics.

I don't mind wording it differently; the important thing is that it explicitly directs those who expand the template to the link in the banner title. I understand that message is set by {{Graphs disabled}} which is used elsewhere, but perhaps a small note could be added beneath {{Graphs disabled}} just within this template. – Scyrme (talk) 19:35, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

In web design, it's well-established that only a low percentage of webpage visits lead to a click. 1-3% of people who see this template will click "[more]" and see the text you propose; so it won't be effective at guiding people to click the link. It's also considered bad practice to say: "click on the link above". Blind users who use screen readers can't do that; their screen reader reads the link aloud, then reads what comes next, and by the time it reads "click the link above", they're already past the link and can't click it. A link's target must be self-evident based on the link's title.

I've made a modified version that addresses this without adding any vertical height, by making the link self-explanatory.

See current version:

See new version:

It could also say "Check daily page views for this article" so there's only one link. DFlhb (talk) 11:23, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

I like your idea from Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 June 2#Template:Annual readership about putting a number in the single link. I suggest: "Check daily page views (1,034,000 in past year) for this article"

--Timeshifter (talk) 18:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't believe that's possible for a template. The only way I can think of is to have a bot manually add the number as a parameter, like {{annual readership|views=XYZ}}, and edit that number every day, but the community will never tolerate daily bot edits for 50 thousand pages. The WMF would likely need to add support for that in the MediaWiki interface rather than in this template. DFlhb (talk) 20:14, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

This template has had a graph for years, establishing a clear expectation for what this template does and is for. I don't know what percentage of everyone who visits a talk page click on the expand link, but among those who use the template, for whom this most relevant, the percentage is definitely not 1-3%. The point of this request is to help those who actually use the template. It will not negatively impact anyone who is inclined to ignore the "show" link entirely.

As I mentioned in the TfD, the message explaining why the graph is missing should be retained because not only has there been a graph for years but the template is still intended to display graph; the lack of graphs is not meant to be a permanent change.

I don't object to amending the header text to "check daily page views", but I also don't see the problem with doing both: adding a second note for those who miss the first.

Screen readers are capable of navigating to earlier lines on a page. Quoting the linked text as I suggested, using "daily pageviews" rather than vaguely saying "above", should facilitate locating the relevant text again if it's missed the first time, even if a reader/editor is using a screen reader.

Reducing this template to just an elaborate link is pointless. At that point you may as well just add a pageviews link to {{talk header}}; it would be much more compact. – Scyrme (talk) 20:03, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Of all the ideas I have heard so far, I like that idea best of all. {{talk header}} is on 693,000 pages. {{Annual readership}} is on 51,000 pages. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:23, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

I like your suggestion of doing both. I've made a new version that does it by modifying the header link so it's clearer, and adding text inside the collapsed banner body (along with a second copy of the exact same link, because that's even more convenient than an explanation to "click the link above"). This new version tries to reflect best practices for links as much as possible. I've not included "click the link above" because it would be redundant with the second link, and the first link should now be clear enough anyway. New version reposted below. DFlhb (talk) 09:13, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Looks good to me! – Scyrme (talk) 11:15, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

We are in agreement. This is the best solution so far for the template for now. Until a template graph is added, or a page views link is added to a more prominent location.

Eventually, put page views link at page bottom as at German Wikipedia, on all pages whether logged in or not. It doesn't use any of the sidebar's prime real estate. Over time I think it would be seen by the most readers and editors compared to any other location other than the sidebar. Since it would be seen my more readers, I think I would help draw a few of them into editing. The other locations are seen mostly by editors. It would be very easy to add the link to MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright as at w:de:MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright. Idea came from here: Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Can a page views link be put in sidebar, or at page bottom as in German Wikipedia?. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Use latest sandbox banner from DFlhb above. Scyrme and I approve it. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:23, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done Izno (talk) 20:02, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 10 June 2023

Request: Please remove the TfD notice. This was closed at TfD as "keep", but the protection of the template itself is preventing me from removing the notice. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 18:56, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:21, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Hide Template:All time pageviews and Template:Annual report inside this template

Talk:Australia is an example of a talk page with way too many header templates to read comfortably. What if it was possible to hide templates {{All time pageviews}} and {{Annual report}} inside {{annual readership}}, like so:

−

{{annual readership}} {{All time pageviews|100}} {{Annual report|[[Wikipedia:2009 Top 50 Report|2009]], [[Wikipedia:2010 Top 50 Report|2010]], and [[Wikipedia:2013 Top 50 Report|2013]]}}

+

{{annual readership|extra hidden content= {{All time pageviews|100}} {{Annual report|[[Wikipedia:2009 Top 50 Report|2009]], [[Wikipedia:2010 Top 50 Report|2010]], and [[Wikipedia:2013 Top 50 Report|2013]]}} }}

See Special:Diff/1226546007 for a possible implementation in the sandbox. It would look like this:

—⁠andrybak (talk) 10:11, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Since these graphs are all broken and have been for a long time, with no obvious signs that they will be fixed in the foreseeable future, even this version seems reader hostile (all we are doing is teasing people). In my opinion the template should be hidden entirely until someone can fix it. Maybe we can attach a deadline and if it isn't fixed within the next 2 years the template can just be deleted altogether. –jacobolus (t) 20:37, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

That is what I tried to implement jacobolus. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:25, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

@Jacobolus and Gonzo fan2007: Are you aware of the ongoing TfD? The closer there will not consider comments made here. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:49, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I replied there, but also here since the reversion of Gonzo_fan2007's change attempting to hide the template referred back to this proposal. –jacobolus (t) 22:58, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Seeing as I TFD'ed, yes I have seen it lol. jacobolus I added a new heading because the discussion you are appending beneath has nothing to do with your comment above. I thought maybe you confused the two. Sorry about that. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:02, 25 August 2024 (UTC)