Template talk:Big Brother in the United States

Rename

I suggest a rename of this template to {{Big Brother USA}} to follow the naming convention of the other templates like this. -- 9cds^(talk) 08:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine with a rename, if the articles using it, are all updated, to be consistant (e.g. bypass the redirect). --Rob 05:27, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, done. Can't see any double-redirects, or any problems? -- 9cds^(talk) 03:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Why the last change?

The old version was better:

• The year is useful to people who aren't serious fans. After the show is over, "Season 4" will mean nothing, but "2003" will mean something to people.
• Winners names should appear next to which season they won. The old format conveyed more info, without really using more space.
• We repeat the words "Big Brother" seven times, even for "Big Brother 7" (aka Big Brother All Stars). Unless you need to show a different title for at least one season, there's need to repeat the show name.

Finally, if the template must be changed so much, it should be done with at least an edit summary explaining it. --Rob 04:17, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Revamp

I revamped the Template based on the Template:Big_Brother_UK template. This template provides small useful links at the top for easy viewing, discussing, and editing the template. Also it adds valuable information with a small space. I think this is a lot better looking than the previous one. Alucard 16 06:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Julie Chen as host

I'm confused as to why it says Julie Chen was only there from 2004-2005. I tried making a correction, but somebody undid it. - Rjd0060 00:21, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

That date is after Marcelles' name, it's his dates for HouseCalls. - Jeeny ^Talk 00:25, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh....Something must be wrong with it then. I'm seeing it directly under Julie Chen.

What browser are you using, OS, device? I've widened the template, see if that helps. - Jeeny ^Talk 01:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm using Firefox. But since you widened it, its better now. Thanks. - Rjd0060 01:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, good! Thank you! - Jeeny ^Talk 01:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it is just FireFox because I use FireFox and the table looked just fine. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 07:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Runners Up

I had a thought of adding the names of the runners-up, even though they don't have articles, into this template. We could link it to their paragraph in the article of their season. I just wanted to run it by you guys to see if you think it is noteworthy information. - 99.243.247.227 03:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I would say no. Doing that, might get people to want to create individual pages for all the 2nd place people, and that would just be a mess. - Rjd0060 15:10, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I say no, good idea but my reason is the same as Rjd0060 plus it could make the Template too bulky then people would want to do the same to the Template:Big Brother UK and Template:Big Brother AU which are pretty big now (with the UK being the largest.) ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 21:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Dick

Should we add Dick to the presenters seen as hes doing Hoise Calls now?--Hiltonhampton (talk) 00:17, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so. Reason being, Marcellas was a presenter like Gretchen he hosted the show during every episode. Ever since Big Brother 7 (U.S.) the show as featured regular guest presenters. Dick hosts a certain day then Daniele (BB8), then Kaysar (BB6/BB7), then Bunky (BB2) are regular guest hosts. The show has also featured Robyn Kass (casting director) and Lynette Rice (EW reporter). They could be mentioned on the House Calls section of the BB US page. But if we include Dick (who has been a guest host for one season) under the same logic we would have to include Kaysar, Bunky and Daniele. So I think it would be best not to have them on the table. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 00:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Ian O'Malley

Umm...who is Ian O'Malley exactly? I've tried to look at the entire article and never found any mention of him. If he did help Julie Chen cohost Big Brother on the first season...maybe someone should mention him or something? Small5th (talk) 04:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

He did, during Big Brother 1 help Julie with the show after that I have no clue what happened to him or what he did before. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 04:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Houseguests in the Navibox

Removed the links to the individual season pages listing the Houseguests for the navibox the link to the master list (Houseguests) is sufficient. The master list will then take the user to the season pages for the Houseguest they want there is also a Houseguest navibox at the bottom of that page that has those links plus links to the individual wiki pages if a Houseguest has one. 02:52, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

The 18 lists of houseguests should be connected by a navbox. {{Big Brother (U.S. TV series) contestants}} only links the main article about each season and not the lists of houseguests. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:09, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Showing / linking to Josh Martinez as the BB19 winner?

Hello; I'm a strong believer that Josh's section thing of the BB19 houseguests page should be linked to in the winners section. It's a bit bizarre and pointless to have Josh be the only winner not linked in the list of winners. I'm ready to debate this one. Any supporters or opposers? Paintspot Infez (talk) 13:40, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

I added him a while back and was reverted by @Woodensuperman:. I challenged and provided my reasoning to which they provided nothing against my reasoning and since no one else supported or opposed I just gave it up. This specific type of template is ment to NAVIGATE and just linking to the article in a different part of the template doesn't even tell the person who is looking that what their looking for exists there. So I Suppport linking him to the specific part of that article on grounds of WP:Ignore All Rules based on my reasoning above. TheDoctorWho (talk) 14:12, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

• The individual is not notable and does not have an article to link to. Therefore there is nothing to navigate to, and as this is a navigation aid there is no point in a link here. See WP:EXISTING. --woodensuperman 14:24, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: there is something to navigate to just link to the specific part of the BB19 houseguest article that's about Josh. That would navigate the person that is looking for info about Joshua Martinez to the only place to get specific information on him therefore assisting in navigation aid. TheDoctorWho (talk) 14:36, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Article is already linked. We don't generally link to the same article more than once per navbox. Navboxes are for navigation between different articles, not sections of the same articles. --woodensuperman 14:39, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: "Generally" is not the case here. How do people know to click on the article in that part of the navbox? So this one time its okay to make an exception and link to that part of the article. TheDoctorWho (talk) 14:54, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Anyone wanting to read about him would find him suitably linked in the articles already, although there's nothing worth reading, so I don't really see the point or why anyone would bother. He's not notable, so I can't suggest that you WP:WTAF. Maybe create a redirect from Josh Martinez (television personality)? --woodensuperman 14:58, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: Anyone wanting to find info on him will not find it easily if you link to the same article they would find it easily. There's no reason for a redirect. TheDoctorWho (talk) 15:06, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

If you follow your logic, what's to stop you adding all of the contestants which don't have articles and link to the sections of the pages that they are on too? If we didn't only link to notable entries with WP:EXISTING articles, only link to each navbox once but linked to sections of articles then they'd become umanageable... --woodensuperman 15:14, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: What stops me from linking every single contestant is WP: Common Sense. Because if you use Common Sense every winner should be mentioned however every contestant should not. TheDoctorWho (talk) 15:25, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

If you use common sense, we should only link to notable subjects with existing articles. However, in the spirit of compromise, I did suggest creating a redirect from Josh Martinez (television personality), just in case he could be considered notable and someone creates an article for him one day. --woodensuperman 15:30, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: What's the purpose of creating a page and redirecting to a section of a page when we can just link directly to the page and eliminate the "middle man"? You have provided no rule that relates DIRECTLY to this.

Well, the preference is not to include per WP:EXISTING, WP:NOTRED, WP:WTAF. However, if we are making the exception, then WP:BRINT applies regarding using a redirect rather than linking to the section directly. --woodensuperman 16:08, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: WP:IAR is exactly what something like this is ment to be used for there is absolutely NO NEED FOR THE REDIRECT. TheDoctorWho (talk) 16:14, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

There's absolutely no valid reason to WP:IAR in this case, when it would be a simple matter to follow the guideline as suggested. --woodensuperman 16:15, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

I've added the redirect (against my better judgment) so we can stop arguing about it now. --woodensuperman 16:19, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: SO So we didn't reach a compromise you put it what you thought is best even though you're being challenged. So take your pick DRN, RFC, Third Opinion, or ANI? I'll file it. TheDoctorWho (talk) 16:27, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

You can file it where the fuck you like and waste someone else's time if you really must. I'd suggest you move on. You've got your link in the navbox, so I'm not sure what your problem is. My edit is in line with the guideline WP:BRINT which you want to ignore without justification. --woodensuperman 16:31, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: My problem is that we're discussing the issue and you put in what you believe is right while we're still discussing.

Celebrity HouseGuests

Woodensuperman Just made an edit and removed all the celebrity HouseGuests from the template. Although the HouseGuests being included violates WP:PERFNAV it does say at that top of this page that occasional exceptions may apply I feel this may be a place for an exception. TheDoctorWho (talk) 14:01, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I returned the article to the status quo as they had only recently been added. There was a big discussion about this some time ago - I'll see if I can find it. --woodensuperman 14:03, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 August 11#Template:Celebrity Big Brother (among various other discussions on the subject). WP:PERFNAV was written after this, to codify exactly this situation. --woodensuperman 14:05, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Agree with woodensuperman pertaining to the celebrities being performers. They were hired for the role due to their already existing cultural status, whereas the other contestants in the "regular" show are non-notable individuals who made it through all the hoops needed to become a contestant. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:12, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

@Woodensuperman: I don't have the energy for this again... Can we at least include the winners? See Template:Big Brother UK for an example? TheDoctorWho (talk) 14:45, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Personally I'm against this, but have added in the "winners" section. I've restructured a little bit so that Over the Top and Celebrity follow the chronology. We could have a rethink if more celebrity seasons are produced. --woodensuperman 15:32, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Gran Hermano USA

Does Gran Hermano USA really meet the requirements for "related shows" in this template. It is no way related to the English version of Big Brother or CBS. Although this template is named Big Brother in the United States it is primarily about Big Brother (U.S. TV series) which Gran Hermano is not a part of. It would be like adding the Canadian version just because it shares the same format. TheDoctorWho (talk) 04:17, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

@TheDoctorWho: This is odd I have this on my watchlist but I don't recall ever seeing this posted I just noticed it as I was going through my watchlist and cleaning it out. I don't think it was included strictly in regards to format per se but because we have a precedent with Template:Big Brother in Canada which does include Loft Story (Canadian TV series) and Big Brother (Quebec TV series) despite them not being related to Big Brother Canada except by country and that they are officially licensed versions of the format.

From my understanding having Gran Hermano (U.S. TV series) in the related shows section seems to meet the very basic requirements. The winner has no article and we don't put hosts in the naviboxes anymore so Gran Hermano shouldn't have its own navibox unless Telemundo or Univision ever picks it back up and produces more seasons then we can split it off into its own similar to the Bigg Boss naviboxes.

Now if someone tried putting Big Brother Canada or Gran Hermano (Spanish TV series) in the related show section, for example, that would be wrong and would most likely be reverted in an instant. These regional naviboxes don't even include Big Brother (franchise) so I don't think we have to worry there about setting a bad precedent with Gran Hermano. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 14:54, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: I think I expressed my initial intent for removing that badly. My main concern is that the main link at the top of the article is Big Brother (U.S. TV series) which Gran Hermano (U.S. TV series) has no relation to. If the top of the navbox read Big Brother in the United States as named and was split into sections for the two different shows I'd support it's inclusion. TheDoctorWho (talk) 01:11, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

@TheDoctorWho: So I created the sandbox for here and made a test version. Is this what you had in mind? Personally I'm neutral just a link in the related section would work but I will say it does clearly separate the English and Spanish editions to avoid any confusion. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 11:38, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

@Alucard 16: Looking at it now, I suppose it's clear that it's not related to the English version in the related shows section. Any links related to English season's are further up on the template. So I'd be fine with it's inclusion either way. TheDoctorWho (talk) 03:12, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

TheDoctorWho I went ahead and updated it to clearly separate the English and Spanish versions so that it would be similar in appearance to Template:Big Brother in Canada. This would also solve a naming issue with this navbox. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 09:10, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Template talk:Big Brother Africa which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 06:16, 13 June 2019 (UTC)