Template talk:Cite VICNAMES

Redundancy of the template in its current form

The Victorian Government has introduced a new site for listing all geological features making {{Cite VICNAMES}} redundant. The new site, called LASSI is located here. There are two key issues:

1. How can the template be amended to now gather the information from LASSI?
2. How do we go about amending all articles currently using the {{Cite VICNAMES}} template, assuming that a new template can be implemented?

Feedback is welcome. Rangasyd (talk) 09:06, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Uuuuurgh. I saw the new dumb-as-a-box-of-hammers LASSI system when I was writing the Grey River article this morning, but I didn't twig to this problem, so thanks for alerting me. If we can find a permanent link option for the specific pages, we might be able to rework the template. The alternative would be to just direct the link to the LASSI page and remove the specific parameter directing the user to the exact page. I'm trying and failing to find any form of permanent link; if you could find one that'd be amazing, otherwise maybe we should write to the department and try to get their attention. It's a shame that it's so badly designed, because the integration with the mapping utility would otherwise be very useful and a better replacement for Google Maps coverage of location boundaries. The Drover's Wife (talk) 17:04, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Response from the Office of Geographic Names, Victoria:

Thank you for highlighting this problem. The new VICNAMES application provides users with enhanced functionality and moves to the Vicmap API which utilises State authoritative mapping. With regards to the permanent URL links, unfortunately the migration to a common IT platform has lost these permanent URLs. Upon discovery of this problem, I immediately contacted database colleagues and the developers, the reintroduction of perm. URLs is something we can work on and the Office would welcome feedback from Wikipedia volunteers as to what you may find useful. Specifically:

1. Do you want the ID to take you to the map, zoom in to scale?
2. Do you want the ID to take you to the place details tab? This option has additional information, including historic and a button which will take you to the map.
3. Other functionality you may find useful?

Budget and release dependent, I would welcome the opportunity to understand what Wikipedia users/volunteers would find useful. In the interim, there may be a work-around via the national gazetteer of Australia. Although the URL is not unique.

• Note once a search is complete and search options are displayed you have the option to export as CSV, KML, WFS.
• Note the data was last updated from jurisdictions in 2012, and is pending an update in 2015.

With regards to your specific comments:

1. How can the template be amended to now gather the information from LASSI?
2. How do we go about amending all articles currently using the {{Cite VICNAMES}} template, assuming that a new template can be implemented?

If you can wait, the Office can see about making these enhancements, they certainly would not be implemented until mid January 2015. Otherwise it may be worth redirecting to just VICNAMES in the interim or to use the national gazetteer if that is a possibility. Again, thank you for highlighting this problem and I look forward to working with you to improve the VICNAMES application. You may email directly to the Office or post comments here and I will review and respond accordingly.

Thank you for getting back to us! The main thing we need to replace the functionality that was lost in the transfer is a permanent link to the "Place details" tab, which contains everything that was being sourced using this template. Getting that back would be amazingly helpful. However, if there were a separate permanent link for the map, zoomed in to scale, this would also be very useful, and would allow us to source to LASSI a range of information we currently have to source to Google Maps. This being said, the latter is quite a bit less important than the former. Thank you again for responding to our feedback! The Drover's Wife (talk) 04:46, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Response from the Office of Geographic Names:

I have looked into this problem. Whilst the perm. URLs are not viewable, a link to a particular record does work. For example I found the following entry in Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tambo_River_(Victoria). The references numbered 1 and 2 now take the Wiki user to the old VICNAMES site which redirects to the new VICNAMES site.

• Note: the new VICNAMES has amalgamated the multiple tabs into a single Place Details screen. The references for 1 and 2 could well be amalgamated into one and link to: http://maps.land.vic.gov.au/lassi/VicnamesUI.jsp?placeId=27026
• Note all Wikipedia VICNAMES entries should be changed to the following prefix http://maps.land.vic.gov.au/lassi/VicnamesUI.jsp

I believe the addition of ?placeId=(add number here) will take users to the correct record. This can be updated in the Cite:VICNAMES document. This should solve the current Wikipedia VICNAMES citation issue. The map can be accessed from the Place Details screen, via View on Map. Going forward, there currently is no way for users of VICNAMES to grab the Place ID, other then completing place search and then downloading the results which will display the Place ID, this seems a bit laborious? One of two solutions as I see it.

1. I add a Place ID for the record on the Place Details screen, under VicmapID
2. I ask for the URL to be exposed when a user selects a Place from the search pane and viewing the Place Details screen

What would be most useful? Look forward to hearing your thoughts. Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.12.195.65 (talk) 04:00, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

If you could just reveal the URL, that'd be fantastic. The Place ID solution could be very confusing for people not privy to this discussion, and would sort of be taking the long way around to the same result. The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:48, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

The developers have proposed to add a permalink to the Place Details screen. When Wikipedia and other sites use the link it will display the Place Details screen. Any user can search for a VICNAMES Place record and the permalink will be viewable in the Place Details screen. Note the URL will remain as http://maps.land.vic.gov.au/lassi/VicnamesUI.jsp If a site copies the permalink from the Place Details screen then the application will display the URL with the Place ID. For example: http://maps.land.vic.gov.au/lassi/VicnamesUI.jsp?placeId=2829. This seems the easiest option available (for the developers). Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.12.195.65 (talk) 00:49, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

That would be terrific! Thank you! The Drover's Wife (talk) 07:37, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks to the officer in the Office of Geographic Names for responding to this request. It's sincerely appreciated and we understand that the constraints of government may not make this a high priority; so thank you! The national gazetteer of Australia provides good reference to the coordinates, but does not assist with other information such as LGA and history / naming / especially ATSI naming. That is why fixing links to LASSI is so important. Please let us know when the developers have made the enhancement and then we will create a new {{Cite VICNAMES}} template so the it points to http://maps.land.vic.gov.au/lassi/VicnamesUI.jsp and then add an ID number for each feature. We will need to fix all pages currently using the old {{Cite VICNAMES}} template. Thanks again. Rangasyd (talk) 13:17, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I now notice that not all the lakes have ID numbers at the LASSI wesbsite. (e.g. Lake Hindmarsh). For the proposed solution to work, every feature in LASSI needs to have an ID number. 09:32, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Response from the Office of Geographic Names: Afternoon, Developers have made the necessary changes to ensure the Place ID is exposed in the form of a Permalink, which is viewable within a records Place Details. So for example:

• http://maps.land.vic.gov.au/lassi/VicnamesUI.jsp?placeId=3581
• http://maps.land.vic.gov.au/lassi/VicnamesUI.jsp?placeId=3333

I trust this resolves the problem, albeit there is some extra work to update old links and the Cite VICNAMES template. Again, thanks for raising this issue, and if you think of any other potential enhancements please feel free to contact the Office of Geographic Names.

Thank you so much! This appears to solve our immediate problem, and is very much appreciated. Two things which would be useful down the line:

1. I use a netbook, and LASSI generally has text so small it's almost illegible even with my face close to the screen. If LASSI used normal browser text size, it would be much, much easier to navigate generally.
2. As I said, this solves the problem that occurred when the transfer over to the LASSI system was made, but if we could get a permalink to the map feature for say, a particular place, this would be one additional functionality we could and would get a lot of use of. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:14, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

The template and documentation page have now been updated. Thank you for resolving this matter in such a productive way. Rangasyd (talk) 10:13, 20 November 2014 (UTC)