Template talk:Infobox NFL biography

Dark mode compatibility

Could this infobox (and other similar ones) be updated to properly support the non-gadget dark mode option on the Vector 2022 skin? The Module:Gridiron color/data it is drawing from works on the mobile app and is shown as intended as seen here, so it seems to be an issue specific to being embedded within templates. This resource seems like it would be of help.

Additionally, could the secondary color at the bottom of the infobox be hidden when no PFR links are included as seen on here? I can provide screenshots if needed. Thanks in advance for any efforts in getting these fixed. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 15:55, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Edit request 4 September 2024

Please lowercase the display of CFL Draft to CFL draft to match the main article (CFL draft). Diff of suggested changes. Also, please see the CFL draft RM as evidence of consensus. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 02:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Done.—Bagumba (talk) 05:48, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 8 September 2024

Lowercase Round: and Pick:, which are non-initial in draft line:

change / Round: to / round: – 5 places

change / Pick: to / pick: – 4 places Dicklyon (talk) 04:26, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 10:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Offseason and practice squad linking

When you click that link, the article says the offseason is before preseason and conditioning. The asterisk includes preseason and training camp so not 100% sure it should actually be explicity linked like that. Linking practice squad also breaks up the gray text that serves as a sort of italics. Now it all meshes together with the team list. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

The idea was to link to terms that lacked them since they are rarely explained in the article itself. I reverted it, but still think it could work if there's a dedicated NFL offseason section we could link to and perhaps move its location to avoid the MOS:SEAOFBLUE issue. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 23:03, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

PFR error

See the infobox at Rudy Bukich. Not sure what's causing it, maybe the military section? ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:44, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I added |module=, which at least fixed the mangled url display issue. But the football player stats link now shows up after the military info, not before. Maybe Frietjes would have some insight? —Bagumba (talk) 02:26, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

It's always going to show at the bottom since it's using the |below= parameter. I was testing a new arrangement earlier that included the links below their relevant sections rather than all grouped at the bottom, which would fix the issue. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 02:57, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

It's live now. Dan Campbell's article is a good example of the change. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 03:50, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Assuming space is no longer an issue, can we expand "PFR" back to pro-football-reference.com or Pro Football Reference. Seems space was an issue when we needed to have "Player" and "Coaching" labels when the links were comingled.[1] I mean AmF experts might know, and WP editors know, but a casual fan might not, and certainly not a non-fan.—Bagumba (talk) 04:22, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

What was the rationale to change from "Stats at" wording to "profile" for the links?[2] It's only a minor point for "consistency", but {{Infobox basketball biography}} is also using the "Stats at" format. But I guess we can make it consistent, if there's a buy-in on the reasoning. —Bagumba (talk) 04:29, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I do prefer "Stats at", but I also wanted to say that I'm a fan of the stats links being moved to relevant sections. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I support the change, but I also prefer "Stats at" like Hey man im josh. This language made it clear that this is providing a source for the stats in the infobox. This is important, because in most NFL bios, there isn't a stat table in the body of the text that can be reference. See Wuert Engelmann for example. Dissident93 can we add that back in? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:43, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Actually, this is causing more unintended problems. If there are no stats added to the infobox, then the PFR link doesn't show up at all. Dissident93, I am going to revert to a clean version. Can you build the new template in the sandbox and make sure everything works, gain some consensus on the changes and then reimplement? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:45, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the testcases at Template:Infobox_NFL_biography/testcases#Renaldo_Nehemiah_(former_player_and_coach) and Template:Infobox_NFL_biography/testcases#Chris_Sailer_(former_Arena_Football_League_player,_no_number) show this. The question would be if someone was in multiple leagues, but there's not stats supplied for some of those leagues, where would the respective leagues' stats link go?—Bagumba (talk) 15:59, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

My main concern is that there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of infoboxes that have PFR linked in them but don't provide stats in the infobox. E.g. Rudy Kuechenberg, with the new infobox code, this PFR link disappears. Is that the intended consequence of these changes? If so, then there needs to be some consensus for this change, because I am not sure I support it. So basically, the way the code is being proposed is for the PFR link to appear, there needs to be stats included. I would say that if no stats are included, the link should remain in its current location at the bottom of the infobox. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:31, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Not intended and I thought I saw it working in the sandbox before it went live. I'll see if it can fall back to the bottom if no stats are present. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 16:55, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I think there used to be a line above the PFR link. Without the line, do you think there is too much space or no? Example: Tom Tumulty. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

The line served no purpose and showed even when no links were provided. The gap should be fixed on the new version. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 16:57, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I always thought the line was unintentional and made it look like the infobox could have been coded better. I'm a fan of it being gone when no stats are present. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Fixes are live. Stats links should now fall back to the bottom of the infobox if no stats are provided (based on empty statvalue parameters). The wording now says "Stats at Pro Football Reference", which seems like it could be improved. I also added a header box to modules (check Rudy Bukich). ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 21:06, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Related, but I've also gone ahead and provided dark mode fixes for the color module and made the gridiron alt primary style template apply the primary color to the border as an inverse of the normal style. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 02:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

• Not familiar with how all this works but since there's been work on this recently, I thought I'd note that for some reason PFR is listed twice in the infobox at Xavier Smith. Any idea why? BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

  Moving "Return yards" to |statslabel1= fixes it locally. It should be fixed within the template now. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 01:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Pull PFR links from Wikidata

We should populate the infoboxes with links pulled from Wikidata. I've checked a bunch of random NFL player Wikidata items and I haven't found one yet without a functioning PFR link. This would be better than doing it manually. There are still a lot of infoboxes that don't have them.

I think Bagumba said that the basketball infobox does this but I looked at the code and I'm not quite sure what's going on there yet, so if someone figures it out before me, that would be great. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:57, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Good idea, I can take a look into it later. I know other infoboxes like the one for video games do this, so it might be as simple as copypasting with minor adjustments. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 02:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

For reference, I just did the WNBA BBR request [3]. It seems NFL ibx also has links for coaches and execs. —Bagumba (talk) 04:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

If possible that would be amazing. I literally signed up and started editing to add PFR links to profiles because I was annoyed when I couldn't find them when looking up players I had in fantasy. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:36, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I adopted the one Bagumba linked to and it should also work for the PFR coaching link. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 00:42, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Adding Field to Template to Include Link to "Pro Football Archives" Page

Has there been any discussion about adding a field to this template for a link to a player's ProFootballArchives.com page? A single page lists a player's career stats even if the player played in multiple leagues. Please take a look at this list of leagues for which ProFootballArchives.com has statistics.

To prove the value of having a player's stats for multiple leagues on one page, look at the one for Doug Flutie. Wcreed88 (talk) 13:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Does it meet WP:USEBYOTHERS for reliability? —Bagumba (talk) 06:39, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I admittedly don't know the answer to that question one way or the other. Wcreed88 (talk) 12:49, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Not a fan of the idea of including it by default. Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 448#profootballarchives.com discusses the reliability of the site, and it's managed by a single person, who albiet would be considered a subject matter expert. It seems to pass USEBYOTHERS, but it's mostly used by other people in a certain community who trust one another based on their past experiences (Pro Football Researchers Association).

My experience is it's mostly used when other sites lack information, somewhat leading me to see it as a last ditch effort source wise. Not saying it's been incorrect when I've found info on it, but I'm not a fan of mass including it when the bus factor on it is a single person. They also took the site down for a stretch of time because they felt it was a lot of work to maintain, stating that it may not be updated as much because of this. Not sure how often it's updated now, but it's a major concern of mine that it's only managed by Maher. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:14, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

When I did a quick search, the only place I recall it referenced by an RS was in Pro Football Researchers Association discussion boards. I think USEBYOTHERS expects wider usage. —Bagumba (talk) 13:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps, in my head, I'm wrongly equating all of Maher's work as being associated with the site. Never the less, I do consider the bus factor to be concerning and I don't think there's enough of a widespread usage to seriously consider implementing it for all of our NFL bios. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:12, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Actually, if I search books, it's cited quite often.[4]—Bagumba (talk) 14:37, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, it's actually a little more accurate than PFR. We don't really have room for more links in the infobox though. If this ever did get added, it should only be used in special cases. It should not be mass added to every infobox. For example, Flutie's infobox might benefit from Pro Football Archives since the CFL.ca link doesn't work anymore. (CFL.ca has a poor history of maintaining profiles for old players, NFL.com is even bad nowadays about that, that's partly why NFL.com was removed from the infobox) ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 17:23, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

What makes you see it as more accurate than PFR @WikiOriginal-9? Any issues I've had with PFR I've reached out about and it's been quickly corrected. I'm still quite concerned with the fact that Pro Football Archives is managed by a single person who has, at times, expressed that it's been a bit too much work for them to maintain and has taken it down as a result. Technically we would have room, since we removed the NFL links. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:00, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

• I'd support having the option to link it – its pretty reliable from my experience and useful in that it not only has NFL stats, but also CFL stats (which CFL.ca does not always have) and it is the only website to list minor league stats. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  What about it simply replacing CFL.ca then? ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 00:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  CFL.ca has some benefits, though; for example, for most players it gives updates after games, while PFA takes until after each season to update. Though a benefit with PFA is it makes sure to get every CFL player all time, while CFL.ca seems to mainly have current ones. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:53, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah that's true. I don't oppose its inclusion but it shouldn't replace Pro Football Reference either in my opinion. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 01:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Just so we're clear, I do oppose the inclusion of PFA based on the infrequent updates, the fact it's managed by a simgle person, and based on the expectation that an external link would include up to date stats. Hey man im josh (talk) 01:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

If empty with no input parameters

Dissident93, can you explain what the following is supposed to do?

{{#switch:{{{status|}}}
   |--|-|–|=
   |#default = {{#ifeq:{{lc:{{{current_team|{{{currentteam|}}}}}}}}|free agent||{{#ifeq:{{{current_team|{{{currentteam|}}}}}}|{{If empty}}||{{{status}}}}}}}
   }}

it looks like you are using {{if empty}} with no input parameters? I believe the intent here is to

• return blank if |status=– or |status=- or blank
• otherwise, return blank if |current_team= is "free agent"
• otherwise, return blank if |current_team= is blank?
• otherwise, return the value in |status=

if so, you can just replace the {{#ifeq:{{{current_team|{{{currentteam|}}}}}}|{{If empty}}||{{{status}}}}} with {{#if:{{{current_team|{{{currentteam|}}}}}}|{{{status}}}| }} and get rid of the {{if empty}} with no input parameters. Frietjes (talk) 14:16, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

The intent was to suppress |status= when |current_team= is empty (or free agent, which is discouraged), since it's common for it to be forgotten to be adjusted when a player is no longer playing with a team. I think I was just testing it and saw that it worked and didn't think to optimize it after. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 18:27, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Dissident93, please discuss further proposed changes here after implementing them in the sandbox and demonstrating them on the testcases page. I have fixed two significant syntax errors in your template and module editing today. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:56, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

CFL status broken

Dissident93, just to add onto this, your 14 October 2024 edits broke |cflstatus=. |status= and |cflstatus= now both return the identical value of {{status}}. This should be fixed so |cflstatus= returns is own {{cflstatus}} value again as the |cflstatus= is used to denote a player's CFL nationality designation (National, American, or Global) and not their roster status (active, practice squad, injured, etc.). GreenRunner0 17:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

It should be fixed now. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 17:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit request to complete TfD nomination

Template:Infobox NFL biography has been listed at Templates for discussion (nomination), but it was protected, so it could not be tagged. Please add:

{{subst:tfm|help=off|type=sidebar|1=Infobox Canadian Football League biography}}

to the top of the page to complete the nomination. Thank you. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 18:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC)