Template talk:Infobox US Supreme Court case/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Argued by

Question from a newbie --

When I use Infobox United States District Court case I have the opportunity to record and display counsel for plaintiff and defendant.

When I use Infobox SCOTUS case There is no field for counsel for petitioner and respondent or at least who made oral arguments, nor can I add one (that I know of). In every case since Samuel Sloan argued pro se in 1978, the petitioners have been represented. How do I fit them in the infobox? Thanks in advance Rhadow (talk) 23:42, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Rhadow. This discussion from 2006 is relevant: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Supreme Court cases/Archive 2#Infobox - add attorneys. Nothing has really changed since then. It's easy enough to add these optional fields to this template, but I'm not sure there's consensus to do so. Which SCOTUS case(s) are you looking at where this would be useful?

("Easy" in this context meaning adding a field to an infobox isn't typically very difficult. This specific request may require a bit more thought since cases can be re-argued, so we'd need to consider how to handle that.) --MZMcBride (talk) 03:05, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Hello MZMcBride -- Thank you. I see now that this matter has been argued passionately already. A decision has been handed down: "If attorneys arguing a case are truly notable ... Of course, this is rare." If I were to observe that oral arguments are important enough for the Court to post recordings and transcripts, I would most assuredly lose an argument from authority, "[Y]ou are not an attorney and you have never been to law school, so how would you know?" I apologize for having asked the question. Rhadow (talk) 11:14, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Speaking as someone arguing in SCOTUS later this year, I think it's worth including. Oyez certainly does. But that might just be my COI. THF (talk) 08:37, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Add category

I propose categorizing transclusions in Category:United States Supreme Court cases automatically. Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 05:05, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Kevin. This is certainly doable. We could also automatically categorize in "Category:1999 in law" and "Category:United States Supreme Court cases of the Taft Court" and similar. Do we want that? --MZMcBride (talk) 03:33, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Sync /courts subpage

Hi. Can someone please sync Special:Permalink/852700990 to Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/courts? The changes are removing a bunch of unnecessary spaces and bypassing some redirects (diff). This will help in testing the upcoming version of the subpage. Thank you! --MZMcBride (talk) 19:57, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Sure, done. Killiondude (talk) 22:44, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Year in short description?

Just to make the short description a bit more discriminating and useful, maybe we should include the DecideYear in that template. If the case hasn't been decided, it can be a "Pending" case. lethargilistic (talk) 04:56, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

• Immediately after posting this, I realized that wouldn't work because every case someone was lazy on and didn't include the DecideYear on would be marked "Pending," haha. lethargilistic (talk) 04:58, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Kennedy still in OT2018 infobox

There needs to be a 2018b that excludes him, as he will not be sitting in the OT2018 cases. -- 72.83.2.18 (talk) 23:32, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Nah, we're going to kill that awful court composition key altogether instead. We're real close. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:34, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I've added for the 2018 term, since it is coming up soon..MZMcBride, how is it that going? Galobtter (pingó mió) 09:13, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

ping Lethargilistic since they seemed to have worked on that a lot. Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:53, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

I consider it ready to go live. You can compare the outputs of the new version to the current version at Template:Infobox_SCOTUS_case/testcases. You can see the discussion on my talk page for more details. lethargilistic (talk) 17:21, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Brilliant! Well, I've made {{Infobox SCOTUS case}} use the new version (after fixing a minor issue) Galobtter (pingó mió) 18:32, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Woo! Thank you for syncing the templates, Galobtter. I updated the template documentation in this edit. There are a few cases where we regressed a bit such as Fox Film Corp. v. Knowles and Merrell v. Tice, but shrug. We should probably automatically categorize these pages in Category:Flagged U.S. Supreme Court articles at some point.

A huge thanks to lethargilistic for doing all the heavy lifting to get this project finished. I'm really glad we've finally killed that janky court composition key system. It will reduce the barrier to starting new case articles or adding infoboxes to existing articles. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:21, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I've removed the big red error messages, at-least for now, as they are causing error messages on ~100 (too many) pages; I've categorized those in that "flagged u.s supreme court articles" category and will see about fixing those. Galobtter (pingó mió) 06:52, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Allow future ArgueDates for /courts?

When I wrote the error checking for /courts, I mostly had decided cases in mind, so it raises an error message if ArgueDate/Year or DecideDate/Year are after today. This might be too restrictive for ArgueDate/Year, which is announced months in advance. I think allowing a Date/Year within the next year would be an acceptable compromise with that reality. lethargilistic (talk) 22:07, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

That begs the question of whether we should have a SCOTUS infobox in an article about a case in which there has not (yet) been a SCOTUS opinion. postdlf (talk) 23:06, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

I think it's wrong to list an argue date in the infobox before the case has actually been argued, at least as currently implemented. In theory, we could change the text to be "Scheduled to be argued" or similar instead of just "Argued", but it seems easier to just comment out or leave those fields blank. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:15, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

In order, I say yes they should be on undecided cases and that commenting out the ArgueDate would be counterinuitive. Both for the same reason. The infobox is for quick facts, and I don't think we're justified in preventing the addition of information to them that is highly unlikely to change and represents the current understanding of the case. As it sits, the basic question of the case and when oral arguments will take place are the most pertinent facts for most readers. The infobox allows the question, but not the date, so they have to go to the article body for that if anyone even recorded that at all. The most difficult part of adding some "to be argued" note would be refactoring the logic in the header1 row so that it reads as a series of if/else. Updating the future checking in /courts would be changing {{CURRENTYEAR}} to {{NEXTYEAR}}. lethargilistic (talk) 20:58, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

You don't need to necessarily comment out a future argue date, the template could just swallow the input if it's a future date. That behavior might be even more confusing to editors, though.

Oral argument dates can and occasionally do shift around. It isn't Wikipedia's place to state, in an infobox or elsewhere, that a case has been argued on a date in the future, even if it seems very likely to take place. At most, Wikipedia can state that the case is scheduled to be argued on that day. --MZMcBride (talk) 21:49, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Doc update?

I take it |SCOTUS= has been deprecated in favor of a better lookup by year decided. I was going to edit the doc, but thought I should ask if there a standard for how this should be done. Is there a recent example to follow showing how it should look in the doc, updates to TemplateData, perhaps a warning message to editors when editing a page with the template, tracking category, etc.? Or should I leave it for someone currently involved in the change? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 09:15, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

It looks like whatever |SCOTUS= did has been replaced by the template and instructions linked at Template:Infobox_SCOTUS_case/doc#Court_membership. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:28, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Oyez links

At cases like Citizens United v. FEC, |OralArgument=, |OralReargument=, and |OpinionAnnouncement= have values that are links to Oyez like this, which are now redirected at Oyez to just the summary page. Looking at the archive of the page, it seems that the equivalent link is now here. Those links could be harvested by scraping the summary pages. Is there an existing bot that can do this, or at least handle the edits if given a table of articles, old links, and new links? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 09:58, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

I don't know of an existing bot, but given enough time I could probably put one together to do this. I actually wrote a web scraper for Oyez a few years back for project that could be repurposed for this. In case someone else has more time and wants to do this before I get the chance, I'd be willing to share that code. Scraping the site for the web pages would just need to look for the hyperlink in the iframe-url attribute of the link tag with the caption attribute value of interest. For example, the html of the Citizens United page has <a ng-click="openModal()" ng-if="(! audio.unavailable)" caption="Oral Argument - March 24, 2009" iframe-url="https://apps.oyez.org/player/#/roberts2/oral_argument_audio/23491" class="ng-binding ng-isolate-scope">Oral Argument - March 24, 2009</a> and you'll see the url you want is in the iframe-url attribute and the caption attribute contains the string "Oral Argument" which could probably be found by regexs or something more elegant. I'd be interested in knowing what the scope of this problem is, and either way we'd need consensus to get approval for the bot to run. Wugapodes [t^hɑk] [ˈkan.ˌʧɹɪbz] 05:24, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

I found this, making it easier than expected I've grabbed the complete json of all cases, which I'll parse into a tab-sep'd list of the relevant data. More to follow. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 05:27, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the audio links were not in the "all cases" json, so I grabbed the 8019 individual case pages. I should have a composite table by Monday. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 01:32, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Docket link broken

When I clicked on the link to the docket in Frank v. Gaos (current revision), it brought up a blank search results page on the SCOTUS website: https://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/17-961.htm The docket number in the infobox is correct. It should directly link to https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/17-961.html. AHeneen (talk) 06:40, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, but that search result does work for some dockets like 09-1061 given in the documentation of Template:SCOTUS URL Docket while https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/09-1061.html does not work. Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:01, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Interesting. Beginning November 13, 2017, the Supreme Court updated the docket on their website so that they now include links to all documents filed. After checking the links from a couple cases, I think that may be related to the issue, but I can't figure out the exact way it works:

• Friedrichs v. California Teachers Ass'n works, but https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/14-915.html doesn't. It was decided in 2016.
• Hamer v. Neighborhood Housing Servs. of Chicago infobox link doesn't work, but https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/16-658.html works. It was decided on November 8, 2018 (the last case with a Wikipedia article that was decided before the change to the docket system).
• Azar v. Garza doesn't work. It was decided in June 2018. I copy-pasted the docket number "17–654" from the infobox and when I entered it in the docket search page on the SCOTUS site, it said there was an invalid text. The only possible thing invalid was the dash and when I deleted it and used the minus symbol on my keyboard, the search worked and led to the case's docket at https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/17-654.html and https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/17-654.html also works
• Sessions v. Dimaya was decided in April 2018, but its docket dates back to 2015 (the case was reargued):

https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/15-1498.html this link from the search result works

https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/15-1498.html also works

https://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/15-1498.htm but this link from the infobox doesn't

Also, the template probably already handles this, but the docket search page of the SCOTUS website states: "The docket provided here contains complete information regarding the status of cases filed since the beginning of the 2001 Term." So links should only be included for cases beginning in 2001. AHeneen (talk) 10:25, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 25 January 2019

Please add a parameter to link to the opinion itself by syncing Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/sandbox. To see the impact of this, look at the last 2 examples on the test-cases page. The last example calls the "opinion" parameter, and links to the opinion. The second to last inserts an inline link in the citation spot. I think the former is more desirable, but my change shouldn't break the latter from working. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 21:58, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 02:06, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 7 March 2019

Please replace this with the current sandbox version, Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/sandbox, which replaces the unneeded uses of {{{category|[[Category:Flagged U.S. Supreme Court articles]]}}} with [[Category:Flagged U.S. Supreme Court articles]] to reduce the number of unneeded parameter checks. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 03:32, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 12:54, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 12 March 2019

Please implement the changes located in Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/sandbox2. This separates the parameters of question presented and outcome/holding, since they are 2 distinct issues. See the difference here (this is a separate request from the one above, and the two should not conflict, but if they do, ping me and I'll fix sandbox2) Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 02:16, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 12:54, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 12 March 2019

Please replace

| image = <includeonly>[[Image:Seal of the United States Supreme Court.svg|100px]]</includeonly>

With

| image = <includeonly>[[Image:Seal of the United States Supreme Court.svg|100px|Seal of the United States Supreme Court|alt=Seal of the United States Supreme Court]]</includeonly>

to add a tooltip and alternative text (both reading Supreme Court of the United States). Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 03:52, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 12:54, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 14 March 2019

Please remove the lines:

| label59      = Dissent
| data59       = {{{Dissent5|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent5|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent5}}} }}

The Supreme Court only once had more than 9 members [1], and none of the cases during that period had 5 dissents. With less than 10 justices, it is impossible for 5 justices to dissent, since the dissents would form a majority; thus, this parameter is unneeded and will not be used. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 05:46, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:28, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 14 March 2019

Please replace the last 4 lines to ensure that the template itself doesn't get flagged

From


    | [[Category:Flagged U.S. Supreme Court articles]]
    }}
    | [[Category:Flagged U.S. Supreme Court articles]]
    }}


to


    | <includeonly>[[Category:Flagged U.S. Supreme Court articles]]</includeonly>
    }}
    | <includeonly>[[Category:Flagged U.S. Supreme Court articles]]</includeonly>
    }}


Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk)

 Done I have limited all tracking category checks to main (article) space. I also edited Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/courts to implement the same limitation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:25, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 16 March 2019

Please replace

| label51 = Dissent
| data51 = {{{Dissent|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent}}} }}
| label52 = Concurrence
| data52 = {{{ConcurrenceDissent|}}}
| label53 = Dissent
| data53 = {{{Dissent2|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent2|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent2}}} }}
| label54 = Concurrence
| data54 = {{{ConcurrenceDissent2|}}}
| label55 = Dissent
| data55 = {{{Dissent3|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent3|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent3}}} }}
| label56 = Concurrence
| data56 = {{{ConcurrenceDissent3|}}}
| label57 = Dissent
| data57 = {{{Dissent4|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent4|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent4}}} }}
| label58 = Concurrence
| data58 = {{{ConcurrenceDissent4|}}}

with

| label51 = Dissent
| data51 = {{{Dissent|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent}}} }}
| label53 = Dissent
| data53 = {{{Dissent2|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent2|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent2}}} }}
| label55 = Dissent
| data55 = {{{Dissent3|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent3|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent3}}} }}
| label57 = Dissent
| data57 = {{{Dissent4|}}}{{#if:{{{JoinDissent4|}}}|, joined by {{{JoinDissent4}}} }}


An AWB search of all mainspace transclusions of the infobox shows that precisely 0 have the string ConcurrenceDissent (just to double check, I added it to 2, reran it, and only got those 2 as having ConcurrenceDissent), meaning it, as well as 2, 3, and 4, are completely unused. Furthermore, the term is completely misleading, because ConcurrenceDissent should not refer to a concurrence and the current code would suggest, but rather a concurrence/dissent. However, both of those are already provided for by Concurrence (1-8)and Concurrence/Dissent (1-8), meaning that, even if the current ConcurrenceDissent parameters were used, they would be redundant. In short, please get rid of these misleading unused redundant parameters. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 01:16, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done please update the documentation as necessary — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:54, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done --DannyS712 (talk) 17:50, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 17 March 2019

Please replace

| label3 = Docket nos.

with

| label3 = Docket no{{#if:{{{Docket2|}}}|s}}.

to show "Docket no." rather than "Docket nos." when Docket2 is undefined, because then there is only 1 docket number to show. This change is implemented in the current version of the sandbox - see the resulting differences at Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/testcases (I suggest searching for Docket since not all Infoboxes use that parameter.) Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 17:04, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 21:23, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 17 March 2019

Please change

{{#invoke:Check for unknown parameters|check|unknown={{main other|[[Category:Pages using infobox SCOTUS case with unknown parameters|_VALUE_{{PAGENAME}}]]}}|preview=Page using [[Template:Infobox SCOTUS case]] with unknown parameter "_VALUE_"|ignoreblank=y| Abrogated | ArgueDate | ArgueDateA | ArgueDateB | ArgueDateC | ArgueYear | Citation | Claim | Concurrence | Concurrence/Dissent | Concurrence/Dissent2 | Concurrence/Dissent3 | Concurrence/Dissent4 | Concurrence/Dissent5 | Concurrence/Dissent6 | Concurrence/Dissent7 | Concurrence/Dissent8 | Concurrence2 | Concurrence3 | Concurrence4 | Concurrence5 | Concurrence6 | Concurrence7 | Concurrence8 | ConcurrenceDissent | ConcurrenceDissent2 | ConcurrenceDissent3 | ConcurrenceDissent4 | DecideDate | DecideYear | Dissent | Dissent2 | Dissent3 | Dissent4 | Docket | Docket2 | Docket3 | Docket4 | Docket5 | FullName | Holding | italic title | JoinConcurrence | JoinConcurrence/Dissent | JoinConcurrence/Dissent2 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent3 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent4 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent5 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent6 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent7 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent8 | JoinConcurrence2 | JoinConcurrence3 | JoinConcurrence4 | JoinConcurrence5 | JoinConcurrence6 | JoinConcurrence7 | JoinConcurrence8 | JoinDissent | JoinDissent2 | JoinDissent3 | JoinDissent4 | JoinMajority | JoinMajority2 | JoinMajority3 | JoinPlurality | JoinPlurality2 | JoinPlurality3 | JoinPlurality4 | LawsApplied | Litigants | Litigants2 | Litigants3 | Litigants4 | Litigants5 | Majority | Majority2 | Majority3 | NotParticipating | Opinion | OpinionAnnouncement | OralArgument | OralArguments | OralReargument | Outcome | Overruled | Overturned previous case | ParallelCitations | PerCuriam | Plurality | Plurality2 | Plurality3 | Plurality4 | Prior | Procedural | QuestionsPresented | ReargueDate | ReargueDate2 | ReargueDateA | ReargueDateA2 | ReargueDateB | ReargueDateB2 | ReargueYear | ReargueYear2 | Related | Seriatim | Seriatim2 | Seriatim3 | Seriatim4 | Seriatim5 | SubmitDate | SubmitYear | Subsequent | Superseded | USPage | USVol }}

to

{{#invoke:Check for unknown parameters|check|unknown={{main other|[[Category:Pages using infobox SCOTUS case with unknown parameters|_VALUE_{{PAGENAME}}]]}}|preview=Page using [[Template:Infobox SCOTUS case]] with unknown parameter "_VALUE_"|ignoreblank=y| Abrogated | ArgueDate | ArgueDateA | ArgueDateB | ArgueDateC | ArgueYear | Citation | Claim | Concurrence | Concurrence/Dissent | Concurrence/Dissent2 | Concurrence/Dissent3 | Concurrence/Dissent4 | Concurrence/Dissent5 | Concurrence/Dissent6 | Concurrence/Dissent7 | Concurrence/Dissent8 | Concurrence2 | Concurrence3 | Concurrence4 | Concurrence5 | Concurrence6 | Concurrence7 | Concurrence8 | DecideDate | DecideYear | Dissent | Dissent2 | Dissent3 | Dissent4 | Docket | Docket2 | Docket3 | Docket4 | Docket5 | FullName | Holding | italic title | JoinConcurrence | JoinConcurrence/Dissent | JoinConcurrence/Dissent2 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent3 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent4 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent5 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent6 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent7 | JoinConcurrence/Dissent8 | JoinConcurrence2 | JoinConcurrence3 | JoinConcurrence4 | JoinConcurrence5 | JoinConcurrence6 | JoinConcurrence7 | JoinConcurrence8 | JoinDissent | JoinDissent2 | JoinDissent3 | JoinDissent4 | JoinMajority | JoinMajority2 | JoinMajority3 | JoinPlurality | JoinPlurality2 | JoinPlurality3 | JoinPlurality4 | LawsApplied | Litigants | Litigants2 | Litigants3 | Litigants4 | Litigants5 | Majority | Majority2 | Majority3 | NotParticipating | Opinion | OpinionAnnouncement | OralArgument | OralArguments | OralReargument | Outcome | Overruled | Overturned previous case | ParallelCitations | PerCuriam | Plurality | Plurality2 | Plurality3 | Plurality4 | Prior | Procedural | QuestionsPresented | ReargueDate | ReargueDate2 | ReargueDateA | ReargueDateA2 | ReargueDateB | ReargueDateB2 | ReargueYear | ReargueYear2 | Related | Seriatim | Seriatim2 | Seriatim3 | Seriatim4 | Seriatim5 | SubmitDate | SubmitYear | Subsequent | Superseded | USPage | USVol }}

To remove the parameters that are no longer valid:

• ConcurrenceDissent though ConcurrenceDissent4 (Removed in Special:Diff/888206687)

Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 17:17, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

If you want to just copy-paste the invokes above, the only change is the removal of those parameters. See Special:Diff/888210123 for verification. --DannyS712 (talk) 17:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

 Already done by MSGJ {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:28, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: MSGJ removed the parameters themselves. This request is asking that they be removed from the check for unknown parameters. I have remarked this as unanswered. --DannyS712 (talk) 03:58, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I misread what was going on here.  Done. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 04:00, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 20 March 2019

Please implement the edit in this version of the sandbox diff to reduce the unneeded checking of parameters {{{Docket2}}} through {{{Docket5}}} by only checking them if the previous parameter was present (don't need to check Docket2 if Docket1 isn't present, etc)

Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 23:28, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Nitpick: there is no "Docket1" template parameter.

Do you think it would make sense to lower this template's protection and/or add you to the "template editor" user group? --MZMcBride (talk) 04:47, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

@MZMcBride: by Docket1 I mean Docket. The current template has 3404 transclusions ([2]), so I don't think lowing the protection would be wise. As for making me a template-editor, I don't meet the first criterion of WP:TPEGRANT: The editor should be a registered Wikipedia user for at least 1 year. so I think I'll just stick with edit requests. --DannyS712 (talk) 04:51, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi DannyS712. I think the risk of rogue edits to the template if the protection level were temporarily (or even indefinitely) downgraded is pretty low. And it would save other users the trouble of needing to step in to do a sandbox to template page sync, which I think you're more than capable of doing yourself. I think that's the spirit of being bold. :-)

It also seems most reasonable to me to make you a template editor here since you have the skills and the desire to work on templates. The criteria you mention are guidelines, not strict requirements, and you've demonstrated sufficient competency without having been here a year, in my opinion.

In any case, thank you very much for the template maintenance! The code simplification and tweaks seem pretty good so far. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:35, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

@MZMcBride: in the case, I may apply for te rights - I have 4 more template protected edit requests to other templates in the pipeline. Thanks for the encouragement —DannyS712 (talk) 10:51, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 07:17, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 March 2019

Please implement the edit in this version of the sandbox (diff) to eliminate an unneeded nesting of parser functions and parameters - if the parameter is empty, it won't be displayed, and if its not, it is displayed (does not change functionality). See the current test cases for the resulting difference (there isn't one). Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 04:46, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 07:18, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 March 2019

Please replace with the current version of the sandbox (diff) to reduce a number of unneeded <includeonly>s and, more importantly, fix the call for {{{Holding}}} Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 08:04, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

@Alex 21 ^^^ --DannyS712 (talk) 08:09, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 08:10, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

@Alex 21: thanks, though given the protection level you may want to remember to leave an edit summary in the future --DannyS712 (talk) 08:11, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 March 2019

Please replace with the current sandbox version (diff) to reduce the unneeded checking of parameters {{{Litigants3}}} through {{{Litigants5}}} by only checking them if the previous parameter was present (don't need to check Litigants3 if Litigants2 isn't present, etc). Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 08:54, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

@Alex 21 last one in this batch (probably) --DannyS712 (talk) 08:56, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 08:58, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 25 March 2019

Please replace with the current sandbox version (dif) - I cleaned up the "behind-the-scenes" without affecting the output (remove an unneeded parser function and parameter call, as well as standardize the spacing used)

Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 04:11, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 08:13, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 25 March 2019

Please replace with the current version of the sandbox (dif). This removes an unneeded check on a parameter, since if its empty it simply won't be shown. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 17:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done - FlightTime (open channel) 20:02, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 27 March 2019

Please replace with the current version of the sandbox (diff) to clean up the use of "includeonly" tags. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 07:12, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 13:16, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 27 March 2019

Please replace with the current version of the sandbox (diff) to include seriatim opinions in the check for the case opinions heading, and then remove "opinion" from the individual labels for seriatim opinion (like the others). See the testcases for the result. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 15:38, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

@FlightTime Can you take a look ^^^? Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 23:49, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done - FlightTime (open channel) 23:58, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 28 March 2019

Please replace with the current version of the sandbox (diff) to add a heading for case history and replace "prior history", "procedural history", and "subsequent history", with "prior", "procedural", and "subsequent" respectively, since currently having "history" with each label means that it takes two lines to display and thus appears unseamly. The result is visible in /testcases. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 18:48, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

@FlightTime do you think you can take a look? --DannyS712 (talk) 18:52, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done - FlightTime (open channel) 18:56, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 28 March 2019

Please replace with the current version of the sandbox (diff) to show "opinion" rather than "opinions" when there isn't a second one. See the current testcases for the difference. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 22:38, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

@FlightTime can you take a look? --DannyS712 (talk) 22:39, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 22:45, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

@Alex 21: Thank you. - FlightTime (open channel) 23:20, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 29 March 2019

Please replace with the current version of the sandbox (diff) to remove an unneeded period. The examples in per curiam don't have one, and it looks odd. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 02:27, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:32, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 31 March 2019

Please replace with the current sandbox version (diff). This makes it easier to understand the series of parser functions at the bottom.

Currently, for each of the 13 parameters, the template checks if the parameter was provided, and if yes, if the page with that name exists, and if not, flags the infobox. The sandbox checks if the page with the name exists, and if no parameter was given just defaults to checking if 1 exists, reducing the number of checks (at most 13, rather than 26). Since the likelihood of 1 being deleted is miniscule, the downsides are slim-to-none.

Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 22:36, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done -- /Alex/₂₁ 22:41, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

@Alex 21: Do you think I should apply for TE rights? I've made dozens of edit requests for this template and others, and would like to stop needing to post here and wait each time (I'll still sandbox non-minor changes of course) --DannyS712 (talk) 22:51, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

DannyS712, I've said before that you should. -- /Alex/₂₁ 22:55, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

@Alex 21: Lol I forgot about that.  Doing... --DannyS712 (talk) 22:56, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

update: request was denied --DannyS712 (talk) 08:33, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I just read the relevant discussion and it was somewhat predictably disappointing. Sorry that this place sucks so much. --MZMcBride (talk) 15:24, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

@MZMcBride: Thanks for the support; if I ever apply again I'll hope for the best --DannyS712 (talk) 17:57, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Warning: Page using Template:Infobox SCOTUS case with unknown parameter "SCOTUS" (this message is shown only in preview).

The documentation suggests having "SCOTUS=YEAR-YEAR" but when previewing the page that has this template use that parameter, the warning about it being an unknown parameter is shown. -Einstein95 (talk) 10:18, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Einstein95: The documentation is outdated - the use of {{{SCOTUS}}} was removed in this edit by Galobtter. --DannyS712 (talk) 14:25, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Typical. Thanks for telling me that, I've removed the param from the doc. Now if only there was a bot to mass edit uses of this template... --Einstein95 (talk) 15:08, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Einstein95: um, maybe DannyS712 bot - we want to remove |SCOTUS=, right? Should be pretty similar to Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/DannyS712 bot 19, which removed a former parameter from transclusions of Template:Infobox cricketer. Thoughts? --DannyS712 (talk) 15:10, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Yeah, that'd be perfect. Don't want to do the 3000+ edits myself :P --Einstein95 (talk) 15:13, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Einstein95: Lets leave this discussion open for a few more days to see if there are any objections, and then I'll go file a BRFA --DannyS712 (talk) 15:14, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 4 June 2019

I think it would be reasonable to add "Partially superseded by" parameter for Roe v. Wade and change "This case overturned a previous ruling or rulings" to "This case overturned a previous ruling(s)". Hddty. (talk) 13:16, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Roe v. Wade already has "Superseded by" in its infobox.

I don't see the text "This case overturned a previous ruling or rulings" in Roe v. Wade or in this Template's code documentation. Please be more specific about what text should be changed, and on which page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:18, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 29 August 2019

Add the background color #99c0ff to the major headers of the template, such as "Holding" and "Court membership", to match those used by the Template:Infobox SCOTUS case. This will allow the various blocks of the template to navigated more easily. Rougher07 (talk) 04:12, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Please clarify; this is Infobox SCOTUS case. — JJMC89 (T·C) 04:19, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 17 November 2019

When the FullName parameter is blank, templates returns

<tr><th scope="row">Full case name</th><td>''''</td></tr>

it should return

<tr><th scope="row">Full case name</th><td>''<nowiki/>''</td></tr>

or

<tr><th scope="row">Full case name</th><td>''&nbsp;''</td></tr>

or

<tr><th scope="row">Full case name</th><td></td></tr>

or any other obvious workaround to four apostrophes, which get turned into unclosed bold markup. — Anomalocaris (talk) 20:26, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

@Anomalocaris: Can you give an example page? It appears from the code that, if the parameter is blank, the page name is used DannyS712 (talk) 20:39, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

DannyS712: Draft:Baldwin v. New York —Anomalocaris (talk) 20:46, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done DannyS712 (talk) 20:51, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

DannyS712: Thanks! —Anomalocaris (talk) 22:22, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Court membership edge case for Carroll v. United States

In Carroll v. United States (decided March 2, 1925), the Court let Joseph McKenna attach his concurrence after he retired (on January 5, 1925). Currently, the case lists Harlan F. Stone as a member, which is Technically Correct because Stone joined the Court on March 2, 1925. However, he did not take part. Additionally, there seems to have been a large number of cases turned in on March 2 (almost all of volume 267, up to 267 U.S. 423), so I propose we fudge Stone's join date in Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/courts to March 3 like we did for Warren Burger's June 23, 1969 seating. We can then simply note in the Carroll article that it was a post-retirement one-off. lethargilistic (talk) 18:40, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

I've crossposted to WP:SCOTUS. FYI. The only online copy of the opinion syllabus I can find does not note court membership/actions for this case, was that not yet the practice at the time? postdlf (talk) 22:19, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

That was not the practice then. On older cases, the votes are only listed immediately before each opinion/concurrence/dissent, when they say who joined it. In this case, the opinion even explicitly says "MR. JUSTICE MCKENNA, before his retirement, concurred in this opinion." One wonders if they'd have included it if he dissented, lol. But it was a very contentious case at the time, so it makes sense that they made an exception. lethargilistic (talk) 05:24, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

I see. But then McKenna did not file a separate concurrence, contra what the infobox currently indicates, he did not write an opinion at all. I'm not as familiar with how they phrased things at that time, but it may mean simply that he had joined the opinion before he retired, or perhaps that he he concurred in the Court's judgment without separate opinion. So I'd question whether that even needs to be recorded in the infobox, maybe at most just a footnote in the body of the article. postdlf (talk) 15:39, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Ah, I see my mistake. I didn't notice "The separate opinion of MR. JUSTICE McREYNOLDS concurred in by MR. JUSTICE SUTHERLAND" was immediately underneath that, so you're right that McKenna did not write an opinion and should be removed from the infobox (I'll take care of that). But as for the court membership, I still think it's misleading to list Stone in the infobox. lethargilistic (talk) 23:00, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Opinion syllabi currently will note all members of the Court at the time a decision was handed down, and then note separately if someone didn't participate in the argument or decision. I suppose we didn't have that clarity in 1925? postdlf (talk) 00:51, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

It definitely depends. Secondary sources can be necessary to be sure someone was sick or something, but this is not an ordinary absence. He was not on the court yet when these decisions were made. He happened to be sworn in on the same day that the opinions came down and it's not necessarily clear if he was even present when they were delivered. If the options are to omit him from the infobox or explain the special case of his presence there for every article, I'd pick omission because "Harlan Stone was sworn in on this day" doesn't strike me as a salient point for a case about unreasonable searches of cars. At least, not as salient as "[A seated justice], expected to be there, did not participate because they were sick/recused." lethargilistic (talk) 20:24, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

This is a neat find! I agree with fudging the date (March 3 instead of March 2, 1925) and noting the special circumstance on Carroll. What you all have said is basically correct, in my experience, regarding opinion summaries. How every justice decided didn't start appearing explicitly until the mid-1960s or maybe even the 1970s. Prior to that, it's a matter of deducing from what's not said in the volumes. That is, in many older cases, we assume all members of the Court joined unless there's an explicit note saying otherwise. I think LexisNexis used to have more detailed and better annotations for older cases and it's possible some other public sites do as well these days. --MZMcBride (talk) 08:07, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

"Statement" in case opinions section

In Thompson v. Hebdon, Ginsburg filed a statement respecting the judgment. Please add a "Statement" opinion category in the case opinions section of the SCOTUS infobox. Kart2401real (talk) 23:49, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

It looks like that case was decided per curiam, so it's actually Template:SCOTUS per curiam that potentially needs editing. --MZMcBride (talk) 08:39, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

That template doesn’t code separate opinions, they are instead just mentioned in the summary section so it’s all free typing. postdlf (talk) 15:45, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I vaguely remember some per curiam decisions noting dissents or concurrences in the description text. Having now read the decision (or at least Justice Ginsburg's part), it is a bit odd that it's a "statement" and not a concurrence in the judgment. I wonder if there are previous similar statements from the Court. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:43, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Since 2000 at least, we’ve only seen “statements” for opinions relating to orders. This is the only one in that timeframe filed with an opinion of the Court. postdlf (talk) 14:58, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Wrong subheading for Goldwater v. Carter

There is a subheadings of the single letter “S” in the page. Alex 08:14, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

@Opera fera:  Fixed - that case had a number of splits, and since it had no official majority, plurality, per curiam, or seriatim parameter specified, it didn't show the "Opinion" part, just added the "s" because the other parameters implied that there was another opinion. I've added a parameter to force showing the opinion label. DannyS712 (talk) 09:33, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Fullname and "Petitioner(s)"

It seems like in a lot of cases today and over the last several years, the petitioners are specifically identified in the SCOTUS decisions and their databases withe "Petitioner" or "Petitioners" if there's multiple in the full name of the case. eg [3]

Even though it should be obvious due to the placement of those names in front of the "v." as the petitioners to the case, would the word "Petitioner(s)" be considered part of the full name for the case in completing the FullName= field? I have not been including it because of this seemingly obviousness. --Masem (t) 14:36, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

It's not value added for the reasons you have mentioned so I never have included it. "Petitioner" and "respondent" is simply the posture of the party on appeal. postdlf (talk) 17:27, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

I would personally include it simply because it is part of the official full case name. Things like "et al.", "LLC", etc, that are part of the full name, may also not necessarily be useful, which is why we don't mention them in the lede, but we still mention them as part of the full case name. --MrClog (talk) 12:43, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

LLC, etc. is actually part of the party's name, however, and may even be included in the short form case name per Blueblook rules if necessary to identify the party as a corporate entity rather (compare Smith v. Jones with Smith, LLC v. Jones Corp., and look at how the Supreme Court names cases). postdlf (talk) 13:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

And "et al." are necessary to indicate there are additional parties but too many to list for reasonableness in the cases' full name (they are dropped on the shortened name, obviously). "Petitioner" is simply a clear redundancy that I don't know why the court added to cases. --Masem (t) 13:59, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Because lawyers gonna lawyer. There's a lot the legal profession does that's just out of inertia and shibboleths. But I'd actually like us to expand that et al in the infobox where we can, though I imagine if there are a hundred parties on either side it would be better to do in a footnote than the infobox. postdlf (talk) 14:05, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

One more clarification that may help us talk about this, the "case name" is really just the short form of lead party v. lead party, the caption in the case is what expands out all of the full party names. postdlf (talk) 14:10, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

I also agree with expanding "et al." to include all parties involved for the "Full name" field when reasonable to do so. We did this for Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, for example (cf. this discussion from 2006). --MZMcBride (talk) 04:57, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

"Statement" opinion section in infobox

Thompson v. Hebdon has an unusual statement respecting the decision by Ginsburg. Should a "statement opinion" section in the infobox be created since a rare bench opinion respecting the decision was finally written? Kart2401real (talk) 15:33, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi Kart2401real. You already asked about this case on this talk page. I'm not sure a new talk page section is needed. What do you mean by finally written? --MZMcBride (talk) 05:25, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

A statement color was added for the opinions table of the term, but no statement section was created for the SCOTUS infobox for the articles of each individual case. I believe one should be added. Kart2401real (talk) 06:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean; you expanded the redirect to be a standalone article. Do you think we should have a bold label such as "Statement" where we would typically have "Concurrence"? --MZMcBride (talk) 05:23, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes. A statement is different from a concurrence. A statement usually means agreeing with the judgment only reluctantly. Kart2401real (talk) 17:41, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Kart2401real. It's interesting that you use the word "usually" here when I'm not currently aware of statements like this in any other cases. This, of course, helps explain why this infobox has never supported a "Statement" field previously. :-) I added one to Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/sandbox just now and updated Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/testcases. That should do it. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:18, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

It needs to be in the template for the infobox. Kart2401real (talk) 17:26, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Normally the "statement" designation is only used for opinions relating to orders (such as denial of cert.), and those are not unusual (though I'm not agreeing with the above claim as to when it's used). This one paragraph "statement" by Ginsburg (I think Kart2401real has spent more time talking about it for some reason than Ginsburg spent writing about it) is the only one filed with an opinion of the Court in the twenty years for which we have opinion lists. I still think Thompson v. Hebdon could be covered at 2019 term per curiam opinions of the Supreme Court of the United States given the scant content of both the Court's opinion and the WP article. postdlf (talk) 18:39, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

What if another statement bench opinion is released this term? Kart2401real (talk) 19:26, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

"Linked" cases?

I was about to ask if we should add fields for consolidated cases but I see now that we have up to 5 Litigants and Dockets here for that, which to me (haven't tried) would be for that. But on the same question as I'm running around on the Trump cases, can we add a "Linked" or "Related" case, as would be for the Trump v. Mazars and Trump v. Vance situation, or as in the Oklahoma case, for Sharp v. Murphy and McGint v. Oklahoma? That is, these are cases that are not procedurally linked in any way except in the ruling usually issued the same day, but, say, unlike the recent faithless elector cases where the facts are fundamentally similar, the case histories are far too different to merge. --Masem (t) 21:04, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I think the article text is the proper place for that, I don't know that it's something that can or should be standardized into an infobox field. In part because it is unusual to have cases that had been argued and briefed (and would have otherwise had a full opinion) resolved in that way; usually that's only done for cases/cert. petitions disposed of by summary orders (such as GVRs). My understanding is each pair of cases would have just been consolidated but not for the recusals on one case out of each pair. postdlf (talk) 21:19, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

True, that's not something that falls out of the Supreme Court's own document, that's only something that for example SCOTUSBlog does. (in contrast with the consolidations) Fair enough point. --Masem (t) 22:26, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

So following up on the first point, seeing how the additional Litigants/Docket lines work, this is how it looks when I apply it to a recent case in my sandbox User:Masem/sandbox (a typical 2-case solidation). all info is based on the SCOTUS docket pages. Now, while that's getting the consolidation across, it looks odd to me, and omits some facets identifying the consolidated case(s) like the full case name of the second consolidated case name. Now, I don't know the format yet, but I'm thinking that if we added "ConsolidedWith1=", "ConsolidatedFull=" (maybe) and "ConsolidatedDocket=" (with 2-5 version of those) so that after the template presents the Docket and Citations, then we can "Consolidated With". So here with my sand box this would add "St. James School v. Biel (Docket 119-348)" there. I note that we'd let the Prior/Subsequent sections be handled by the editors as often the same trial history will lead to two or more petitions that get consolidated back to one. --Masem (t) 05:49, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 July 2020

Please change [[Rufus Wheeler Peckham|Rufus W. Peckham]] to [[Rufus W. Peckham]] throughout; this is a pointless piping, as the title before the pipe is just a redirect back to the visible value. Colonies Chris (talk) 20:43, 22 July 2020 (UTC) Colonies Chris (talk) 20:43, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

As a note to any TPEs reading this request, I believe the requestor is asking for a change to Template:Infobox SCOTUS case/courts (whose talk page links to here). Should be a pretty uncontroversial change. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 21:26, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done — Wug·a·po·des​ 21:32, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Colonies Chris (talk) 21:37, 22 July 2020 (UTC)