Template talk:Infobox church/Archive 7

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Archive 5

Archive 6

Archive 7

Convert to wrapper

Parameter by parameter comparison of the two templates.

Parameter Infobox church Infobox religious building abbot added administration alt archbishop archdeacon archdeaconry archdiocese architect architectural type architecture_style architecture_type archpriest assistant asstcurate asstpriest attendance auxiliary bishop bell weight bells bells hung benefice bhattaraka bishop building_name bull bull date businessmgr canon canonchancellor canonmissioner canonpastor canontreasurer capacity caption cardinal protector category cercle chancellor chaplain chapterclerk child church name churchmanship circuit closed date completed completed date consecrated date consecration year consecration_year construction cost construction_cost coordinates coordinates_footnotes country creator cult curate date_demolished date_destroyed deacon deaconess dean deanery dedicated date dedication deity delisted1_date delisted2_date demolished date denomination designated designated date designation1 designation1_criteria designation1_date designation1_free1name designation1_free1value designation1_free2name designation1_free2value designation1_free3name designation1_free3value designation1_number designation1_offname designation1_parent designation1_type designation2 designation2_criteria designation2_date designation2_free1name designation2_free1value designation2_free2name designation2_free2value designation2_free3name designation2_free3value designation2_number designation2_offname designation2_parent designation2_type diameter diocese diocese start director district division dome dia inner dome dia outer dome height inner dome height outer dome quantity dome_dia_inner dome_dia_outer dome_height_inner dome_height_outer dome_quantity earlydedication elevation_footnotes elevation_ft elevation_m embed embedded episcopalarea established events exarch facade_direction festival festivals floor area floor count flowerguild footnotes former name former names founded date founded_by founder fullname functional status functional_status funded_by general_contractor geo governing_body grid_name grid_position groundbreaking height height choir height max height nave height_max heritage designation heritage_designation honpriest image image_size image_upright imagealt imagesize img img capt img size inscriptions interior_area language(s) laychapter leadership length length choir length nave liturgycoord locale location logo logoalt logolink logosize map caption map_alt map_caption map_relief map_size map_type materials membership metropolis minaret_height minaret_quantity minister monument_quantity municipality musicgroup name native_name native_name_lang nocat_wdimage nonstipendiaryminister nrhp organisational_status organist organistdom organizational_status organschol organscholar osgraw osgridref other dimensions other name otherdedication ownership parish parishadmin past bishop pastor patron people prebendary precentor prefecture presbytery previous cathedrals previous denomination priest priestincharge prior province provost provost-rector pushpin label position pushpin map pushpin map alt pushpin mapsize rcia reader rector refnum region reledu relics relief religious institute religious order religious_affiliation religious_features religious_features_label rite sacristan sect sector seniorpastor serversguild sessionclerk shrine_quantity site_area spire height spire quantity spire_height spire_quantity state status student intern style subdean subdivision subprior succentor synod temple_quantity territory tower height tower quantity tradition treasurer type verger vicar viceprovost warden website width width nave width transepts width_nave year completed year_completed years built youthmin

This should be converted to wrapper of {{Infobox religious building}} per WP:INFOCOL. Capankajsmilyo^{(Talk | Infobox assistance)} 12:15, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

There is almost no overlap in this table. Please stop spamming these tables into infobox talk pages. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:08, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

14 common fields, and countless different ones? Yes, this is even worse than Template talk:Infobox comics creator#Convert to wrapper, where the same is proposed with the same "arguments" (defended by a notorious proponent of these merges or conversions, who claims that linking to that essay is enough when someone asks for arguments). In that case, there were no less than 20 common fields, against 36 comics parameters missing in the person one. Apparently that makes them an obvious case for merging? Fram (talk) 15:10, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

IMHO the table is useful, it makes a cast-iron argument for not attempting to fuse the two. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:13, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

When you've finished beaching WP:CANVASS, perhaps you can tell us whether that "notorious proponent" has a name? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:15, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

How is responding directly to a thread even remotely canvassing. The table illustrates that there is very little commonality between the two templates, which in my opinion indicates that persuing this is a waste of time and effort. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:21, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

I'm generally in favor of merging templates, especially infobxes, when it is reasonable and feasible to do so. Right now, I think there's too little overlap between Church and religious building, but I would support a longer-term project to bring the two together. Ergo Sum 15:47, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 24 March 2020

Add

<!--ORTHODOX - ORIENTAL ORTHODOX - COPTIC ORTHODOX-->
|[[Coptic]]
|[[Coptic Orthodox Church]]
|[[Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria]]
|[[Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria|Coptic Orthodox Church]]

to Template:Infobox church/font color to make the font color white (and legible) on Saint Mark's Coptic Orthodox Cathedral (Alexandria) and other coptic churches. – Thjarkur (talk) 10:33, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

The required formatting is currently "[[Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria|Coptic Orthodox]]": I've changed the cathedral to show this. I'd recommend simply adding the above alternatives to the list at Template:Infobox church/denomination/doc. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 12:20, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

I see. The text in my original request was listed in Template:Infobox church/denomination (causing dark blue) but wasn't in the font color file and wasn't the color the /doc said Coptic churches should be. But well, it is legible now. – Thjarkur (talk) 16:42, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:07, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 22 March 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Please review previous RM requests before initiating a new one, and provide a reason in your rationale for changing the previous result, to avoid covering the same ground again. wbm1058 (talk) 20:01, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

---

Template:Infobox church → Template:Infobox church building – WP:PRECISION. PPEMES (talk) 11:36, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

@PPEMES: I believe this discussion has been had already (see here). The infobox covers not just the physical building but the administration and history of the church itself. Even if it were just about the building, "church" is sufficiently common as a shorthand for "church building" that moving the template just isn't warranted. Therefore, I must oppose. Ergo Sum 14:54, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose - I see no reason why we can't instead propose at WP:TFD that this be merged with Template:Infobox religious building. -- Netoholic @ 15:02, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose - The template contains much more that just architectural features. Changing its name or moving it to Infobox religious building would cause significant disruption to most church articles for no apparent gain. See Frietjes' point in the previous discussion linked to by Ergo Sum.

• Oppose for now with a big BUT - this template's use has a lot of WP:Avoid template creep. I would like to see a template that is strictly for a church building and all of the parish community-related things separated out of here. Let's merge this with Infobox religious building and split out the non-architectural bits to an "Infobox parish" or something. There is no reason that articles can't have two infoboxes. Elizium23 (talk) 09:56, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

---

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Street maps

I have added mapframe maps using the same syntax as Template:Infobox building. these maps will be off by default if there is already a pushpin map, but will turn on if possible if there is no other map. if this is controversial, we can the mapframe street map turned off by default. thank you! Frietjes (talk) 13:28, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

tracking cat

Jonesey95, please restrict Category:Pages using infobox church with unknown parameters to article space only. Thanks. MB 19:31, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

 Done. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:21, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Jonesey95 Any idea why the template sandbox is still there? The other non-articles are gone. MB 15:26, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

User:MB, if you copy-and-paste the main template code to the sandbox, the sandbox won't be in the tracking anymore (sandbox is currently using the code that doesn't restrict the namespace). Frietjes (talk) 15:51, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Is there a way to deconflate church building and church congregation?

We conflate church building and church congregation - as we do not do here, say Template:Infobox_legislature, as eg here: Parliament of the United Kingdom, which is about the organisation; with a link, clearly, to here Palace of Westminster; the building where the meetings happen. This distorts articles - for example the article on All Souls Church, Langham Place, which is notable for far more than its building, but we make it hard for ourselves by concentrating on the building. Or, here: The Vineyard Life Church, Richmond where our confusion of building and congregation leads to the ludicrous statement that Harold Wilson attended the Vineyard church and Tony Benn was a parishoner! I guess we could use the generic Template:Infobox organization as here: King's Church Catford, but that is not really suitable (nor would this template, as the church is multi-site).

Am I treading old ground here? Has there ever been a Template:Infobox_church_building or a Template:Infobox_church_congregation?

Regards and best wishes to all,

Springnuts (talk) 11:34, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there's been some discussion of this in the past but I haven't looked for it. The problem is that for many churches (maybe the vast majority), it doesn't make sense and doesn't satisfy notability rules to have separate Wikipedia pages for the church and its building because most churches (at least in some major denominations) have only one building. Having more than one infobox per page is just unsightly, so this infobox captures both aspects: the architectural features of the building and organizational features of the congregation. If there is a building that exists only as a building and does not have a congregation, I'd think Template:Infobox religious building would work just fine. Ergo Sum 16:01, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Inserting furnishings, help

I have tried to add the category "Organ" under the information about Bells, but don't appear to have done it correctly. Is anyone able to see what I have done wrong and correct it for me please?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.214.70.234 (talk • contribs) 21:57, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

It is not your fault; the parameter only ever existed in the documentation file, where I have removed it. There was some earlier discussion about adding it. Elizium23 (talk) 05:09, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Church of the Faroe Islands

Not essential, but would it be possible to add Church of the Faroe Islands to lutheran denomination. I am in the progress of making a list of church buildings in the Faroe Islands, and it just seems slightly off that the infobox for the national churches are the same color as those of the Plymouth Brethren. Thanks. Kaffe42 (talk) 21:13, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Adventism and Congregationalism

I propose we expand the Seventh day Adventism color to include all Millerite and Adventist churches. They are a group of churches with a similar history, while the Seventh day is limited to a specific church.

I also propose we add Congregationalism to the Presbyterian / Reformed color since it is part of the reformed tradition.

Bluealbion (talk) 20:47, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Presbyterian Church in Canada

Would it be possible to add the Presbyterian Church in Canada to "Presbyterian, Reformed"? Richiepip (talk) 02:34, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Pastor

The entry for "pastor" should be higher in the display order, near "priestincharge". It should certainly be higher than "priest" and "asstpriest".

Please let me know if you find this edit acceptable. Thanks! –Zfish118^⋉talk 02:28, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 6 March 2022

change Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church to Ukrainian Greek Catholic. – Bicentennial Jim (talk) 19:32, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 23:36, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Edit request to complete TfD nomination

Template:Infobox church has been listed at Templates for discussion (nomination), but it was protected, so it could not be tagged. Please add:

{{subst:tfm|help=off|1=Infobox LDS Temple/doc}}

to the top of the page to complete the nomination. Thank you. Bluealbion (talk) 15:16, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done Terasail^[✉️] 16:17, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Presbyterian Church in Canada and United Church of Canada

I propose adding the Presbyterian Church in Canada and the United Church of Canada to the "Presbyterian, Reformed" colour. Richiepip (talk) 14:09, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Navigation links in image caption

There is a discussion cincerning this infobox at Talk:Sant'Agostino, Rome#Rfc about navigation for mobile users within caption. Specifically, whether it is appropriate to add navigation links like this to the caption of the image. Please comment there. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:31, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 13 June 2022

Please could somebody add ecclesiastical region to this infobox? I understand that it would only apply in 5 or so countries, but I still feel it would be useful within those countries. Thank you! Vesuvio14 (talk) 11:22, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: This is actually a controversial edit, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. Please open a new section here and start a discussion. A new edit request may be opened only when there is agreement among editors for the proposed change(s). P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 12:17, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Reorder parameters

With the recent edit on St. Patrick's Cathedral (Midtown Manhattan), adding |deanery=, I noticed that the parameters in the Administration section are listed in ascending order of hierarchy, while the parameters in the adjacent Clergy section are listed in descending order. It only makes sense that we should be consistent in how we order hierarchy within the template. My own view is that descending order is better, and so I propose to reorder the parameters in the Administration section accordingly, e.g. Archdiocese above Deanery, etc. Ergo Sum 13:40, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

I very much support this idea. It doesn't make sense to have them in different orders and could be confusing. I also feel that you are correct about the order to put them in. Vesuvio14 (talk) 19:22, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Addition of ecclesiastical region

I feel that it would be beneficial to add the parameter of ecclesiastical region to this Infobox. I am aware that the division is only used in about 5 countries but I feel that it would make it much easier to navigate articles within these countries. What are other people's thoughts? Vesuvio14 (talk) 19:19, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

I like the idea. It wouldn't be the most common parameter, but I'm a maximalist for such things. ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:13, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vesuvio14: and @Pbritti:, I also like the idea of showing ecclesiastical region where it's applicable, but we don't need another parameter in the info box to do that. Just indicate the region after the episcopal conference to which the particular church belongs. Using my home archdiocese (Boston) as an example, the entry "United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), Region I" does the job. That way, the additional entry is not "in the way" in the overwhelming majority of dioceses and other particular churches to which it does not apply.

@Norm1979: That can get a bit confusing in countries outside the US. In Italy, for example, each region has a name rather than a number- e.g. Campania- so it couldn’t be written the same way. Vesuvio14 (talk) 21:34, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vesuvio14:, do you really think that an entry of the form "Italian Episcopal Conference, Campania Region" would be confusing? It seems pretty clear to me.... Norm1979 (talk) 01:28, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

@Norm1979: The only reason that might be confusing is that the ecclesiastical regions do not necessarily align with the actual regions of Italy, even though most have the same names. Therefore, a reader of the article may believe this refers to the administrative region of Campania rather than the ecclesiastical region, and thus misunderstand the location of the church. Vesuvio14 (talk) 08:04, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vesuvio14:, okay, then how about the form "Italian Episcopal Conference, Campania Ecclesiastical Region" where the ecclesiastical region does not align with the civil administrative region? Norm1979 (talk) 13:01, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

@Norm1979: That could work as a solution, but I would still be in favour overall of adding a new parameter as I do not feel this would "get in the way" in other cases. If the consensus is otherwise then I feel this would be the natural option, though. Vesuvio14 (talk) 13:30, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vesuvio14:, a good solution that we can implement today often is better than a perfect solution some time down the road. The best way to proceed probably is to add the ecclesiastical region to the entry for the episcopal conference for now so the information will be there. It will be an easy edit to move it to a new tag if/when a new tag becomes available.

JTOL, this info box obviously affects the Wikipedia articles on dioceses of several other denominations so the Wiki project teams for those denominations obviously will want to have a say and may be the source of major objection to your proposal. It really might not be worth the effort to pursue it further, but I'll leave that decision to you. Norm1979 (talk) 23:28, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

@Norm1979: Good point about the other Wiki Project teams. I'll follow your suggestion for now and if any other input arises then we can take it from there. Thank you! Vesuvio14 (talk) 11:39, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vesuvio14:, BTW, if you want to get fancy, you can put a "break" tag (<br>) before the region so the region will appear on the line below the episcopal conference rather than as a continuation of the same line. Norm1979 (talk) 16:12, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Please watch those line breaks, because Wikimarkup much prefers <br /> instead of the general html tag <br>. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 18:45, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth:, okay, please enlighten me. What is the difference in use and effect? Norm1979 (talk) 23:08, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

To editor Norm1979: (please remember your sig ~~~~ – notifications, such as {{ping|Paine Ellsworth}}, don't work unless you add your signature) and see Help:Line-break handling: "While valid forms without the / (such as <br> or <br >) will work properly in the rendered page, the uncommon form <br > can break several of the available syntax highlighters for wiki code in the editing view (mis-highlighting all text in the page after the occurrence of that tag), and so should be avoided. As of April 2019, the rather common form <br> also causes this incorrect display in some of them, and is thus better avoided for the time being." P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 16:40, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Further to this, it has just occurred to me that if users wish to add the ecclesiastical region then they could always make their own script for it on an individual basis if they feel it is particularly relevant. Vesuvio14 (talk) 14:05, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Episcopal Conference

@Norm1979: I've just realised that there isn't even a parameter for episcopal conference. Would you suggest one be added to fix the problem above? Vesuvio14 (talk) 15:46, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

@Vesuvio14:, let's think this through. AFAIK, "episcopal conferences" exist by that title only in the Catholic Church, but other denominations have equivalent national or regional units (provinces in the Anglican Communion, patriarchates in the Orthodox Communion, etc.). The best solution would be a generic tag applicable to all denominations that have national or regional units. Perhaps "National/Regional Unit" would work? Or has this gotten to the point that there's a need for a separate info box template for the dioceses and equivalent jurisdictions of each denomination so that each denomination can use its own titles? Here, I'm also thinking about a recent suggestion by an Anglican contributor to adopt "Assistant Bishops" (which actually is the term used in the Roman Missal) as the tag for what the Anglican Communion has historically called "Suffragan Bishops" and the Catholic Church has historically called "Auxiliary Bishops" -- and that's far from the only instance in which denominations use different terminology for the same thing and the same terminology for different things.

Or perhaps we seriously need to rethink what information should be in an info box in the first place. Some of the info boxes seem to have become way too big. The adage that "less is more" comes to mind. An info box typically should contain only the most basic facts. Norm1979 (talk) 19:34, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

My 2c: I think adding some extra parameters is no problem, technically. There are already some 13 administration parameters (see list in #Preparations). Nor is it a problem that they might be used only in a few instances. Much more important is: they be used correctly wrt their meaning (semantics). And this correct usage is more easy without the editor having to study documentation (description, definition explainer, requiring verbose input, which words to use IF such and so OR ELSE ...: ouch). Instead, it is nicely inviting to do it right when one is named like |episcopal ...=; and when a church administration does not have something "episcopal" at all, skipping is obvious. Also, it is easy to find a to the point lefthand label text (for us here).

IOW, if you could solve it naturally with one or three extra parameters, which would they be? And please, always state what the lefthand labeltext (link) should be. -DePiep (talk) 20:07, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

I personally agree that it is best to be specific and capture the exact meanings. I know that episcopal conference would be the correct Catholic tag and province for Anglicanism, and User:Norm1979 has said that patriarchates apply in the Orthodox Communion. These would cover the three largest, but I don’t know what terms are used for others. In any case, I feel it is best to be specific and accurate. Vesuvio14 (talk) 21:06, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 30 June 2022

Please invert the order of the parameters in the administration section so that they are in descending order in accordance with the clergy section. This would be: division, sub-division, district, circuit, synod, presbytery, province, metropolis, archdiocese, diocese, episcopal area, archdeaconry, deanery, benefice, parish. Please also add the parameter of episcopal conference betwewwn presbytery and province. Thank you! Vesuvio14 (talk) 15:04, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Set |answered=pause to prepare the sandbox version. -DePiep (talk) 16:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

• Request reopened, new code now in the /sandbox.

Please replace all code in {{Infobox church}} with all sandbox code from {{Infobox church/sandbox}} (diff).

Changes: per OP request: added new parameter |episcopal conference=, reordered all 16 entries in Administrations.

Also: renumbered entries ('|data123=') in the infobox; completified incomplete '|header=' checklists (|autoheader=y doesn't work with the |header={{{embedded|}}} construct).

Changes arelogged in section #Preparing below.

Consensus: The sandbox is an implementation of the reasonable order-request; worked in cooperation with OP Vesuvio14.

Tests: Template:Infobox church/testcases § Administrations (Jun 2022), also previewed the /sandbox in live articles.

Todo: Documentation to be adjusted post-edit (add the parameter, present the Admin section in new order). Inviting Vesuvio14 for this follow up.

-DePiep (talk) 22:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Preparing

@Vesuvio14: Let me flesh this out, towards an {{Infobox church/sandbox}} version.

Testcases: Template:Infobox church/testcases § Administrations (Jun 2022)

(Tell me if someone thinks there is a better route).

This tabel is developing

Church administrations
sort	administr	parameter	exists	note
1	division	|division=	Yes
2	sub-division	|subdivision=	Yes	no hyphen
3	district	|district=	Yes
4	synod	|synod=	Yes
5	presbytery	|presbytery=	Yes
6	episcopal conference	|episcopal conference=	No	New parameter
7	province	|province=	Yes
8	metropolis	|metropolis=	Yes
9	archdiocese	|archdiocese=	Yes
10	diocese	|diocese=	Yes
11	episcopal area	|episcopalarea=	Yes	no space
12	archdeaconry	|archdeaconry=	Yes
13	deanery	|deanery=	Yes
14	circuit	|circuit=	Yes	(repositioned wrt OP)
15	benefice	|benefice=	Yes
16	parish	|parish=	Yes

-DePiep (talk) 16:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@DePiep: Good idea, thank you! Vesuvio14 (talk) 16:21, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

User:Vesuvio14, so the other orders are OK? Personnel &tc? -DePiep (talk) 16:59, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Having done a bit more research, I think that circuit may belong further down the list, probably between benefice and deanery. Otherwise, all seems to be in the right order. Vesuvio14 (talk) 17:18, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@Vesuvio14: OK; between which numbers exactly? -DePiep (talk) 18:17, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Oops, found it. between benefice and deanery -DePiep (talk) 18:20, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

• @Vesuvio14: I think /sandbox is ready. Could you please check? Template:Infobox church/testcases § Administrations (Jun 2022) and secions below. -DePiep (talk) 20:24, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@DePiep:That’s perfect, thank you! Ecclesiastical region could also be added in the future, but we are awaiting consensus on that so this is brilliant for now. Vesuvio14 (talk) 21:35, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Y will reopen the request. -DePiep (talk) 22:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: looks like a consensus needs to be established for this alteration. It does not appear to be uncontroversial. Please garner the needed consensus before using the {{edit template-protected}} template again. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 14:49, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: Consensus has already been established on the re-ordering, as per the top discussion on this talk page. Furthermore, a consensus was reached on not yet adding an ecclesiastical region parameter and instead placing the region after the episcopal conference. As this parameter does not exist, it would need to be added. Would that not be a clear enough consensus? Vesuvio14 (talk) 15:04, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

I will await further consensus before re-opening the request. Vesuvio14 (talk) 15:49, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

To editor Vesuvio14: with further reading and proofreading the sandbox, I'm inclined to go ahead with this. What I would like you to do if you wouldn't mind is to add your eyes to the sandbox one more time for a proofread. I found an omitted equal sign and made minor spacing corrections, so your eyes on it one more time would be more than helpful. Thank you for your patience. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 17:30, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I've had a look over it and there don't seem to be any other issues from what I can see! Vesuvio14 (talk) 17:56, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Good, okay, just one more issue with the Episcopal area link that needs disambiguation. The choices are on that dab page. Let me know which is the best choice. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 19:33, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

I think Episcopal area (United Methodist Church) would be the right choice there as episcopal area is not a title typically used in other denominations. Vesuvio14 (talk) 19:48, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

And  done, and thanks again for your patience. Have an errand to run, then I'll take another look at the diocese ibox. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 21:17, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Brilliant, thank you so much! Vesuvio14 (talk) 22:01, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

• I think the change wrt |episcopalarea= (now in label101) can be improved. Also re its previous version. See #Episcopal area DAB below (as a new development). @Vesuvio14 and Paine Ellsworth: -DePiep (talk) 06:51, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Episcopal area DAB

• About |episcopalarea= and Episcopal area (DAB). The (lefthand) label101 text shows "Episcopal area", possibly DAB-linked. I think the linking can be more tot the point. Before the Jul 1 edit, there were more variants covered.

Question: how and when can the 'Episcopal area' label best be linked?

To test: by |denomination=, differentiating between the DAB pages:

Episcopal area (disambiguation) has DAB list:

Episcopal area (Anglicanism)

Episcopal area (United Methodist Church)

Episcopal conference [Episcopal conference (Catholic)]

If not one ofg these, don't link: "Episcopal area" or lin to Episcopal area (disambiguation)?

Also: existing List, used for colors. Church of Ireland, Church of England, Scottish Episcopal Church, ... all → BC50A5

Test setup

{{Infobox church/sandbox}} demo version [1]. Shows three output forms for a single |denomination=, |episcopalarea=anytext input (named 107, 108, 109).

See {{/testcases}}.

Aims

Catches (=presenting the right text/link) should be as wide as possible. eg,

1. A=a;
2. independent of [[..]] brackets entered,
3. For '(United Methodist Church)', catch all applicable church denominations etc.

So, question for @Vesuvio14 and Norm1979:: can the denomination recognising & colorcoding in this list be used? That is: are all denominations with the same color code be linked to the same E.E. page? For example, the label  all methodist churches: #CC6666  to be linked to Episcopal area (United Methodist Church)? That would make things very easy!

-DePiep (talk) 07:09, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Just on this, episcopal area should not be used for Catholicism, it is simply a misnomer for episcopal conference. I have also amended the link on the DAB page for the section to which the Anglican lo entry links as it was not quite right, meaning I missed information. If this could work, it would be a very good way of doing things! Vesuvio14 (talk) 07:19, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't get what you say. Please be as specific as can be. I assume:

1. |episcopal area= not in combination with |denomination=.. Cathocic .. , instead use |episcopal conference=. All right.

2. "amended the link on the DAB"? [2] then.

Now please go back to the question. -DePiep (talk) 07:28, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, yes that is what I mean in point one, and my changing the DAB page is irrelevant anyway. Vesuvio14 (talk) 07:35, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Time for a purge

The entire Laity section needs to go. This template has accrued so many minor, unnecessary parameters over the years, and it is long overdue that they be purged. All infoboxes are required to contain only basic, essential information. That's why any organizational infobox generally contains only the leader of the institution and maybe the number two person. Here, we have countless parameters for minor figures. We even have a "student intern" parameter! This is totally unnecessary and even inappropriate. Ergo Sum 15:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Edit request 31 December 2022

Description of suggested change: Please add "rite" as a synonym for "churchmanship", analogous to the usage in {{Infobox religious building}}. Elizium23 (talk) 04:45, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Edit request : associations

Description of suggested change: Please add "associations", analogous to the usage in {{ Infobox Christian denomination}}.

Thanks for your help. --Nathan B2 (talk) 00:28, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Is the sandboxed code ready to implement? Note you have a stray "7" — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:59, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello MSGJ (talk · contribs). Yes the code is ready. Thanks for your help. --Nathan B2 (talk) 14:50, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

There is still a stray "7". That may have been in the sandbox before you started editing it. Please double-check the diff and remove anything unintentional — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:28, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Disabling pending response to Martin's comments. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:27, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello MSGJ (talk · contribs). The code is ready. Thanks for your help. --Nathan B2 (talk) 10:50, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, but that code would remove the address field from the template. The problem is that sometimes changes get made to the live template without sandboxing them first. I have synchronised the sandbox. Please make your changes again. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:47, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello MSGJ (talk · contribs). The code is ready. Thanks for your help. --Nathan B2 (talk) 15:20, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

There was no opposition to this request so I have implemented. Please can you update the documentation with usage guidelines? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:00, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Lua error

Resolved

This template now has a Lua error. I noticed it on Church of the Holy Sepulchre. You can see it on the template page as well. lukini (talk | contribs) 20:46, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

@Lukini: See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 203#Fix this: Lua error in Module:Type_in_location at line 64: assign to undeclared variable 'args'. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:30, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 20 February 2023

Make the following change in Template:Infobox church/denomination to add the Orthodox Church of Ukraine.

Change this:

|[[Greek Orthodox Church|Greek Orthodox]]

to this:

|[[Greek Orthodox Church|Greek Orthodox]]
|[[Orthodox Church of Ukraine]]

Thank you. — Archer1234 (t·c) 16:33, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 21:57, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 8 March 2023

I request that the links in the template which currently target Prior be changed to be piped to Prior (ecclesiastical), like this sandbox diff: Special:Diff/1143514865. This is because of a recent page move (Talk:Prior (ecclesiastical)#Requested move 28 February 2023, closed as moved). Adumbrativus (talk) 06:29, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 08:26, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 16 June 2023

Description of suggested change: Could the Presbyterian Church in Canada be added to the blue Presbyterian, Reformed category? Richiepip (talk) 21:09, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please make your requested changes to the template's sandbox first; see WP:TESTCASES. Izno (talk) 01:04, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 7 July 2023

A better target for "Dedication" would instead be Dedication of churches, which was split from Dedication in 2021.

(Plus, Dedication is now a disambiguation page, the old page having been moved to Dedication (ritual) per a recent move request.)

Therefore, I suggest changing this:

−

[[Dedication]]

+

[[Dedication of churches|Dedication]]

{{replyto|SilverLocust}} (talk) 20:08, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done SWinxy (talk) 01:20, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 25 September 2023

To the administrator: Please add this code in the Template:Infobox church/denomination just below the Eastern Orthodox line in the "ORTHODOX - EASTERN ORTHODOX" section of the code as it is in the Template:Infobox religious building/color.

| [[Georgian Orthodox]] 
| [[Georgian Orthodox Church]] 
| [[Georgian Orthodox Church|Georgian Orthodox]]

Welaskesi (talk) 23:07, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:01, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 18 December 2023 (2)

Please add this code in Template:Infobox church/denomination just below the Church of Scotland line in the "PRESBYTERIAN" section of the code.

| [[Presbyterian Church in Canada]] 

 — Archer (t·c) 18:46, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done SWinxy (talk) 23:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 18 December 2023

To the administrator: Please add Campuses (after attendance) for multi-site church. Thanks for your help.--Nathan B2 (talk) 17:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:37, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 19 December 2023

Please make the following change in Template:Infobox church/font color in the PRESBYTERIAN and REFORMED section.

Change this:

|[[Church of Scotland]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in America]]
|[[Presbyterian Church (USA)]]

To this:

|[[Church of Scotland]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in Canada]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in Canada|Presbyterian]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in America]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in America|Presbyterian]]
|[[Presbyterian Church (USA)]]
|[[Presbyterian Church (USA)|Presbyterian]]

Updated: 03:15, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

 — Archer (t·c) 00:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:37, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 19 December 2023 (2)

Please make the following change in Template:Infobox church/denomination in the PRESBYTERIAN section.

Change this:

|[[Presbyterian Church in Canada]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in America]]
|[[Presbyterian Church (USA)]]

To this:

|[[Presbyterian Church in Canada]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in Canada|Presbyterian]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in America]]
|[[Presbyterian Church in America|Presbyterian]]
|[[Presbyterian Church (USA)]]
|[[Presbyterian Church (USA)|Presbyterian]]

This will accommodate some more variation in how Presbyterian denominations could be named, thus allowing a consistent color scheme for the infobox.  — Archer (t·c) 03:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:37, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 17 January 2024

Description of suggested change: RCIA needs to be changed to OCIA Coordinator to reflect the change from RCIA to OCIA. INFOWeather1 (talk) 03:20, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 06:03, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Edit request 23 January 2024

Description of suggested change: Creation of a sui_iuris_church parameter identical to that extant for Template:Infobox diocese, placing it below denomination and before former_denomination in the ordering. Some Catholic church buildings change hands between sui iuris churches, so it might also be worth considering a former_sui_iuris_church parameter, too. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:38, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please make your requested changes to the template's sandbox first; see WP:TESTCASES. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:03, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

@MSGJ: Ok, took a moment to get a hang of, but I think I've successfully demonstrated it with this test on Template:Infobox church/testcases. Let me know if I need to provide any further demonstration or information. Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Looks good! I made a few tweaks and deployed it — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:37, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 8 February 2024

Add image_upright to the check for unknown parameters, which begins with "{{#invoke:Check for unknown parameters". The parameter image_upright was added on 5 October 2023 in this edit.  — Archer1234 (t·c) 21:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 02:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 8 February 2024 (2)

Note: this a request for a change in Template:Infobox church/denomination.

Change this:

|[[Serbian Orthodox Church|Serbian Orthodox]] = FFCF00

to this:

|[[Serbian Orthodox Church|Serbian Orthodox]]

|[[Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate)]] = FFCF00

This will ensure that church buildings assigned to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) via the |denomination= parameter of {{infobox church}} will have the background color set appropriately (in line with all other Eastern Orthodox churches) (see, e.g., Refectory Church, Kyiv Pechersk Lavra).  — Archer1234 (t·c) 22:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 02:44, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Should nave width include the aisles?

The documentation doesn't make it clear whether the nave width should include or exclude any aisles that the church may have. Some articles, such as Worcester Cathedral, exclude the aisles, while some, like Lichfield Cathedral, include them. I think consistency would be nice whenever possible, and clarification in the docs might encourage that. Or, perhaps the template should encourage contributors to specify whether the measurement includes aisles or not. Eishiya (talk) 00:01, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Edit request 25 June 2024

Description of suggested change:

I request an additional parameter, under architect, to list who built the church/building. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:44, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit template-protected}} template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:56, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Support Infobox religious building parameters

To streamline conversion of {{Infobox religious building}} to {{Infobox church}}, the following parameters from the former should be supported by the latter as aliases:

Infobox religious building	Infobox church
building_name	name
religious_affiliation	denomination
consecration_year	consecrated date
functional_status	functional status
patron	dedication
architecture_type	architectural type
architecture_style	style
year_completed	completed date

Sanglahi86 (talk) 11:35, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Sanglahi86, no objections, so done? Frietjes (talk) 16:49, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes it is done. Thanks. Sanglahi86 (talk) 20:12, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

New parameter

Hello, I suggest adding a new parameter to the template |pushpin label=. Currently it uses the |name= parameter or the article title, this is not ideal if this is long. This would allow a short, user selected label, to go next to the location pin of the map. Any thoughts? Keith D (talk) 17:53, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Former name parameter not working

The parameter |former name is currently not displaying in the infobox, as seen in San Isidro Labrador Church (Pulilan). Please fix it. Sanglahi86 (talk) 13:18, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

@Sanglahi86: Problem appears to be |former names= which appears in the example, but |former name= used in the details of the documentation. The code checks if |former names= is empty before outputting |former name=, thus to display |former name= you need to have an empty |former names=. Looks like this needs fixing in the template and the documentation updated. Keith D (talk) 19:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Link for consecrated date

Currently the consecrated date parameter renders with a label that links to Sacredness#Transitions. Since this infobox is meant for Christian churches, would it be better to link to Consecration in Christianity? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 01:25, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree that that is a better link. Ergo Sum 02:09, 16 August 2024 (UTC)