Template talk:Israel–Hamas war

Combatants

Shouldn't there be links to articles like Hamas, Israel Defense Forces, Nukhba in this template? Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 14:09, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

New format

ElijahPepe, I don't think it is an improvement to simply copypaste the format at Template:Russian invasion of Ukraine into here. It is not necessarily the ideal format for other conflicts, and we had one collapsible section of this template with two articles and another with four. We should use collapsible sections when not doing so renders the navbox way too long to be read easily; with sections of two and four articles we're not there yet. Your edits also left a lot of empty space in general in the template. I am not opposed to adding back some of the links you had added. And personally I disagree with not listing casualties, but I'd like to hear other editors' opinion on this too. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 19:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Aner Shapira

A member of an armed force is not a civilian, no matter if he is in a uniform or not. Synotia (moan) 08:37, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Cluttering

Lau737, please stop adding these unrelated links to the template. This template is for the Israel–Hamas war. Not for general judicial terms that apply to dozens of past and current military conflicts and not only. We can't include anything slightly related to everywhere. These links also provide no informational value. Many of them don't even discuss this conflict. It's just clutter. We already have articles of this kind specifically about this war or about the wider Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Super Ψ Dro 12:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

No you don't, otherwise I would have added these to Israeli-Palestinian conflict template. When people talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, all they talk about is "Ethnic conflict," "Ethnic cleansing," "Social cleansing," "Structural violence" this and inhumane blockade that. When the Palestinians talk about it, all these things are true, up to and including genocide. The terms must be included! Lau737 (talk) 12:59, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

All of that looks like your own view and perspective. Other people could also say that X random article is also related because "people talk about them" related to the conflict. I don't see how this is a quantifiable or demonstrable criterion. In any case, we have specific articles. See Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza and Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, Israeli settler violence, Palestinian freedom of movement, Israel and apartheid, Sexual and gender-based violence against Palestinians during the Israel–Hamas war, War crimes in the Israel–Hamas war. These articles, either by themselves or along with other articles, tangentially or directly address these topics in the context of the Gaza war or the wider conflict. We don't need to add both the general and the specific articles. What are we supposed to get from adding Ethnic conflict and Ethnic violence, both of which are already very similar as well as very general, and which are pretty much a definition of the logically already linked Israel-Palestinian conflict? By the way, there is no consensus in Wikipedia for undisputedly referring to the events in Gaza as genocide. Super Ψ Dro 13:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Ethnic conflict and Ethnic violence were there for flair, the same being true for Communal violence. Extrajudicial killing, Ethnic cleansing, Social cleansing, Population cleansing, Collective punishment, Political cleansing of population weren't there for flair, they were important terms that shouldn't be excluded.

What you did on the Israel-Hamas war campaignbox template was worse: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACampaignbox_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war&diff=1210491233&oldid=1210418579 You removed the Killing of journalists in the Israel–Hamas war article alongside the articles mentioned above. What good did that do?

I have a large number of credible sources emphasizing the importance of the terms you removed:

Extrajudicial killing:

https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-detained-israel-hamas-gaza-war-0ecbc338e4024add059b87b38022086d

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-west-bank-gaza-war-east-jerusalem-shooting-army-23338c903c08bdd3e5fade3e2a048ab1

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/23/middleeast/kamal-adwan-hospital-gaza-israel-abuse-allegations-intl-cmd/index.html

Ethnic cleansing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/05/wv-israel-hamas/

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/10/un-expert-warns-new-instance-mass-ethnic-cleansing-palestinians-calls

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/2023/11/13/23954731/genocide-israel-gaza-palestine

Collective punishment

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/07/israels-collective-punishment-palestinians-illegal-and-affront-justice-un

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15473.doc.htm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/13/israel-hamas-gaza-war-crimes

"Social cleansing" just follows from the accusations of genocide. "Population cleansing" follows from accusations of bullying Palestinians off the land. "Political cleansing of population" follows from attempts to move Palestinians who are members of Hamas off the land.

Regards Lau737 (talk) 15:36, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

As I said not anything even distantly related to the conflict has to be on the template. Earth is also distantly related and it shouldn't be included. All of those general articles are either discussed in other pages on the template or have specific Israeli-Palestinian conflict pages of their own. My edits were thanked by two other editors. One of those reverted your reverts of me. I don't see consensus for inclusion of these terms in the template. Because it's not necessary. Super Ψ Dro 14:01, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

And why did "Killing of journalists in the Israel–Hamas war" have to go? Did your finger slip?

I am not about to link every article from "War" to "Missile," but yes, the most straightforward articles, articles that would otherwise be overlooked, should be included.

Have you read any of the articles? This is just as unreasonable as barring "Lynching" from the Civil rights movement template, or "Rape" from the Genocide template. Lau737 (talk) 16:21, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Stop speaking like this, you've already been warned for your tone by several other users [1]. Yes, my finger "slipped", I accidentally removed that list, apologies for that. Look, it is clear we disagree on this. I advise you to seek dispute resolution measures. You can use WP:RfC, WP:3O, or other methods mentioned at WP:DISPUTE, I will participate on them. I think the burden is on you as you're the one proposing a change and because my reverts of those changes have been supported by two other editors. And genocide is a construct, it makes perfect sense that it is full of theorical concepts and definitions. You don't see lists of general definitions on events. At least I don't on Template:Civil rights movement. Lynching in particular started precisely on the US, at least the term, so it is justified as I see it that it is included. None of the terms you mentioned started with this conflict. I don't see any particular reason for including these general terms that apply to many conflicts in the template of this one. Super Ψ Dro 17:07, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I will do just that! Lau737 (talk) 14:59, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Should Nicaragua v. Germany be listed alongside the South Africa v. Israel court case?

Nicaragua v. Germany seems like an important court case that is related to this conflict. Shouldn't it be in this template alongside the South Africa v. Israel court case? JasonMacker (talk) 21:09, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 April 2024

Adding Yitzhar Hofman into the list of Israeli security forces killed in the Israel-Hamas War template MF4412 (talk) 01:45, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done Wikishovel (talk) 19:22, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2024

Add Sidra Hassouna to the list of deceased Palestinian civilians in the template MF4412 (talk) 06:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 11:27, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2024 (2)

Include Faiq Al-Mabhouh into deceased Hamas members in the template MF4412 (talk) 06:50, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 11:27, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 June 2024

Add Talal Abu Zarifa to the deceased Other militants section and Mahmoud Khalil Zakzuk to deceased Hamas militants section, and David Ben-Avraham, Hani Al-Masdar and Fathi Ghaben to deceased Palestinian civilians. MF4412 (talk) 02:12, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Can you provide a reliable source for these edits? Adam Black ^{talk • contribs} 04:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Talal Abu Zarifa - DFLP fighter and politician

Mahmoud Khalil Zakzuk - Hamas commander

Killing of David Ben Avraham

Hani Al-Masdar

Fathi Ghaben MF4412 (talk) 08:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

After further consideration, I am not going to perform this edit. Another editor is welcome to handle these requests, but in my opinion this infobox is overburdened as it is and badly needs to be condensed and/or split. I will post a discussion suggesting this when I get a moment. It is already longer than most stubs and bigger than the majority of articles at almost 16.8 kilobytes in size; for context the largest article in the list above is 16.2 kilobytes. Adam Black ^{talk • contribs} 08:57, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done In concurrence with Adam Black. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 18:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 June 2024 (2)

Add Nahed and Ramiz Barbakh and Hadeel and Imad Abu al-Qara (links in the Arabic Wikipedia) to the deceased Palestinian civilians MF4412 (talk) 02:41, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

As above, can you provide a reference? Adam Black ^{talk • contribs} 04:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Nahed and Ramiz Barbakh

Hadeel and Imad Abu al-Qara MF4412 (talk) 08:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

 Not done The navbox is already bloated, and adding more links (let alone to articles from foreign language wikipedias) is not suitable in my opinion. Have a good day, P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 18:11, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 August 2024

add Rescue of Qaid Farhan Al-Qadi in to Rescued hostages. 142.116.32.130 (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done Ilovefood123123 (talk) 18:35, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 October 2024

I want to add some missing names in the Casualties (spillover) section which is:

1. Fatah Sharif
2. Nabil Qaouk
3. Ali Karaki
4. Abbas Nilforoushan

and also remove Saleh al-Arouri from hamas section because he is already in the spillover section i found it odd that his name is repeated twice. 70.26.36.11 (talk) 05:03, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 October 2024 (2)

also i want to add Leve Palestina song in the Other topics because it gone viral during this conflict. 70.26.36.11 (talk) 05:17, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

 Declined . How exactly is this related specifically to the war? This would seem more like promotion of the song, not actual needed info. Marking as done. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 11:20, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Cooldudeseven7 i don't disagree with your decision but there is already songs inside the template plus this song was used in pro Palestinian protests so it's not advertising as you said.--70.26.36.11 (talk) 19:34, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Are the songs in the same section?  Thanks ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 20:51, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Cooldudeseven7 , yes there is already 4 songs in the same section Rajieen ,Hurricane ,Hind's Hall and Harbu Darbu.--70.26.36.11 (talk) 22:25, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I have read the above message. I will reply when I have a moment. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Cooldudeseven7 _{join in on the tea talk} 23:14, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Split

Since this has grown excessively long, and multiple editors have expressed a reluctance to add more links to it, I suggest we create child navboxes about more specific aspects, and then have this be a more general navbox for links to the core articles. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:36, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Pinging P,TO 19104, Adam Black, and Super Dromaeosaurus, as they've objected to additions here and I'd like to know if they'd consider this an acceptable solution to trim the navbox. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:06, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. Listing killed civilians of a war on its navbox is unorthodox in Wikipedia. I'd favor taking this information into a list article or into a separate navbox. The rest I think is quite okay. I suggest the model of Template:Russian invasion of Ukraine. It's a gigantic template but it is divided into subgroups making its navigation easier for readers despite its size. I think it is desirable to keep all articles into one navbox if possible. The killed civilians could also be kept with this model, as the mass killing of civilians is an important aspect of this war. But I ultimately don't have too strong of an opinion on what should be done with the template. Super Ψ Dro 23:03, 20 October 2024 (UTC)