Template talk:Prince of Wales–Hyder Census Area, Alaska

"Cities"?

Kasaan has 39 people....is it officially designated a 'city'? Likewise the other "cities" used in that field in the template; the Wikipedia standard for catnames is "settlement", which seems a more suitable term...Skookum1 (talk) 16:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

See §29.04.010 and §29.04.030 of the Alaska Code, which says that all non-borough municipalities are cities. Seems weird to me too, but that's how it is in Alaska. Nyttend (talk) 22:47, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

I didn't see anything in the article about it being a municipality; no mayor, no council, just 39 people ("for every 100 men there were 120 women" yeah uh-huh...). Looked at Unorganized_Borough,_Alaska but don't have time to look into the links as to whether or not Kasaan is incorporated or not; if 'ts not t hen what is it?Skookum1 (talk) 23:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

As per the link on my page, apparently it's the "Organized Village of Kasaan". But also I found this which I'll read again but I don't recall seeing the term "city" anywhere, nor any mention of incorporation other than the organization whose site this is.Skookum1 (talk) 00:17, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

If it weren't incorporated, it wouldn't be listed as a city by the Census Bureau. Census Bureau results are generally considered definitive: unless you can find evidence disproving the Census results (for example, see Greenfield, Ohio, a village listed by the Census as a city), there's no reason to challenge the Census Bureau results. You may have great difficulty, likewise, finding anything (other than Census Bureau) definitively calling Richfield, Kansas a city, but I can't imagine why we'd challenge it. Nyttend (talk) 04:16, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

A lot of people would argue that even our biggest city isn't really a city. But that's beside the point. The census bureau website does say city, although I think town might be more appropriate... ~ L'Aquatique! [^talk/_stats] 04:40, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Why? State law says that all non-borough municipalities are cities. Nyttend (talk) 04:53, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

See my talkpage = Kasaan websites use "Organized Village of Kasaan" and nowher on teh Kasaan heritage site also linked there is the word "city" used, only "village". Also I'm not sure that the Unorganized Borough is "non-borough....Skookum1 (talk) 05:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

[unindent] Read §29.05.021 on the same law page to see that the Unorganized Borough is not a borough: communities within the Unorganized Borough are by that bit distinguished from communities "within a borough". As far as it being a city: see the official reference I've added from the state government, showing that it's a city with mayor and council. Nyttend (talk) 14:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Fine, but why then does Kasaan call itself an "Organized Village"?? Unless under Alaskan terminology an Organized Village is a type of city, which is possible I guess....that Kasaan describes itself as an Organized Village and that it is village-sized should surely be stated in the article........all this is just more proof to me that Alaska's even weirder than BC, and that's before I ever heard of Gov. Palin....Skookum1 (talk) 16:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)OK

OK, I found a specific use of "City of Kaasan" (note spelling):

Southeast Conference, Membership FY 05-06, Cities and Communities

• City of Angoon
• City of Coffman Cove
• City of Cordova
• City of Craig
• Community of Elfin Cove
• City of Gustavus
• Haines Borough
• City of Hoonah
• Hyder Community Association
• City and Borough of Juneau
• City of Kaasan
• City of Kake
• City of Ketchikan
• Ketchikan Gateway Borough
• City of Klawock
• City of Pelican
• City of Petersburg
• City of Prince Rupert
• City of Saxman
• City and Borough of Sitka
• City of Skagway
• City of Thorne Bay
• City of Whitehorse
• City of Wrangell
• Metlakatla Indian Community
• Naukati West Inc.
• City and Borough of Yakutat

Anyway while "City of Kasaan" is the official usage, and should be stated in the article as its legal status, I think "most common usage" should trump the legal status, and not just because Kassan and Kasaanites clearly refer to their community as a "village" (capitalized or otherwise), it's a given that the most common usage of "city" in English is NOT for places of only 39 people, legal status or no. I'd be interested to see news copy from Ketchikan's papers or Juena's etc. taht refer to Kasaan as a "city on Prince of Wales Island" - casual use of "city" in non-legal contexts has a pretty clear meaning in English (even in Alaska).....legal status is entirely a different thing from on-the-ground reality. And how people refer to themselves is the most important consideration (not how the Alaska Code refers to them). Skookum1 (talk) 16:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

The way it's done with all US municipalities is to use the official term: if you want to say that we shouldn't call this a city, perhaps you should first try to say that Hempstead, New York isn't a village. By law, this is a city, so any statement otherwise is by definition incorrect. If you disagree with this definition, Wikipedia isn't the place to try to change it: try the Alaska Legislature. Nyttend (talk) 17:49, 3 November 2008 (UTC)