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NOTE: this is all very tentative, and I'm Still Figuring It All Out If That's Okay (reference)? therefore, don't copy/copying is very much not advised. also this is becoming Spit 2 albeit with less sources. good god

If Not Winter
Studio album by
Wisp
ReleasedAugust 1, 2025
RecordedMay 2024 – June 2025
Studios
Genres
Length38:13
Labels
Producers
Wisp chronology
Pandora
(2024)		 If Not Winter
(2025)
Singles from If Not Winter
  1. "Sword"
    Released: March 14, 2025
  2. "Get Back to Me"
    Released: April 18, 2025
  3. "Save Me Now"
    Released: June 6, 2025
  4. "Breathe Onto Me"
    Released: July 18, 2025
  5. "Serpentine"
    Released: July 29, 2025

If Not Winter is the debut studio album by the American musician Wisp, released on August 1, 2025, through Music Soup and Interscope Records. Wisp began working on the album after finishing touring in support of her debut extended play (EP) Pandora in May 2024 and completed it in June 2025. Recording primarily in Los Angeles, she collaborated with a variety of producers including Aldn, Colin Brittain, Grayskies, Gabe Greenland, Kraus, Photographic Memory, and Stint.

If Not Winter is a shoegaze, nu gaze, dream pop, and alternative rock album that expands upon the style of Pandora and incorporates greater pop and electronic music elements. Wisp, who had greater creative control over her music on the album compared to in the past, sought to move beyond categorizations as a shoegaze act and showcase their interest in other genres. Its lyrics, mainly inspired by Wisp's personal experiences following her rise to fame, relocation to Los Angeles and on tour, explore themes of love, fear, insecurities, guilt, personal growth, self-love, and self-doubt. The lyrics and visuals also drew influence from medieval fantasy, movies, poetry and Greek mythology, with its title being derived from the Sappho poetry collection If Not, Winter (2002) by Anne Carson.

If Not Winter received generally positive reviews from music critics, who viewed it as an improvement from Pandora and highlighted its ambition, songwriting, and lyrics, though they were mixed on whether it diverged significantly from Wisp's established sound and shoegaze as a whole. The album was supported by five singles and an accompanying world tour of North America, Europe, Asia and Australia that took place from August 2025 and February 2026, with Wisp briefly supporting System of a Down for six shows on the former leg. Commercially, the album peaked at number 37 on the Billboard Current Albums Sales chart.

Background

[edit]

Natalie Lu a.k.a. Wisp began writing songs after being giften an acoustic guitar by her mother during the COVID-19 pandemic.[2] In early 2023, she recorded her debut single "Your Face". After a friend's recommendation, she recorded vocals over an instrumental by the producer Grayskies using a pair of Apple earbuds, despite having no prior experience in music production.(sources) After a snippet of the song achieved viral success on TikTok, she purchased rights to the instrumental and released the song officially in April 2023.[3] "Your Face" became "the first overnight success in the almost four-decade history of shoegaze", according to Kristen S. Hé of NME,[4] and peaked at number 8 on the Billboard Hot Hard Rock Songs chart.[5] The song's success led to Wisp being seen as a leading figure of a new generation of shoegaze and nu gaze artists,[6] whilst simultaneously attracting scrutiny from users on Reddit whom accused her of being an industry plant and questioned her artistic merit.[3][7] (tldr this is likely due to racism/sexism and white man image)[8] After dropping out San Francisco State University (SFSU), where she had been working towards a degree in in computer science,[7] Wisp signed to Music Soup and Interscope Records and began working on her debut extended play (EP), Pandora (2024), during which time she relocated from San Francisco to Los Angeles in January 2024.[9]

Writing and recording sessions

[edit]

I didn't really know what I wanted [If Not Winter] to be about—I feel like I was trying to create blueprints and write a story about the album before I was even making songs. The more songs that I made, the more I put the pieces together and it naturally fell into place. I found meaning in the way that the songs are intertwined with each other.

— Wisp on the songwriting proccess of If Not Winter[10]

Wisp spent more than a year and a half working on If Not Winter.[11] Work on the album commenced shortly after Wisp finishing touring in support of Pandora in May 2024,[11][12] after which she began writing songs and recording demos for the album four days a week at Gabe Greenland's childhood home in Brentwood, whose mountainous scenery she felt helped with the songwriting compared to if she had been working in a "claustrophobic" studio in Los Angeles.[13][14] Wisp would usually write songs on an acoustic guitar, which she felt helped her come up with vocal melodies and different ideas,[15] and would write lyrics on the same day as their instrumentals within 20[10] to 30 minutes.[9][6] Wisp initially worked on demos with Max Epstein (a.k.a. Photographic Memory), with Aldn and Greenland becoming involved later on.[14] Wisp recalled that Epstein would ask Wisp and their collaborators for three words to help them establish the direction of their songs, and that their mood of songs could be dictated exclusively by things as chord progressions or lyrics.[7] She drew musical inspiration from the Cocteau Twins' The Moon and the Melodies (1986), Justin Bieber's Journals (2013) and Purpose (2015),[16] Chappell Roan,[3] Whirr and Slowdive,[17] with Deftones influencing its heavier tracks including "Breathe Onto Me" and "Save Me Now".[6] She also began reading poetry in an attempt to improve her lyric writing and handling of narritive and metaphors.[14]

Aldn performing live
Wisp credited Aldn (pictured) with changing her outlook towards making music during the production of If Not Winter.

The production of If Not Winter was handled primarily by Aldn, Greenland, and Stint,[18] alongside Epstein, Zach CapittiFenton, Julian Emken, and others.[19] Recording sessions took place primarily at Sunset Sound Recorders and Venice Way Studios in Los Angeles.[1] Unlike how much of her earlier releases were conceived, Wisp was able to work with producers in person and had complete creative control over her music on the album.[13] Wisp said that her songwriting was initially "safe" but became more experimental as she worked with more artists and producers,[20] with each song becoming a "melting pot of everyone's taste and style".[15] Wisp cited Aldn, Epstein, Greenland, and Grayskies as the producers who shaped the album's sound the most,[13] and in particular credited her experiences working with Aldn with changing her outlook towards making music: "once I met Aldn, it was always like, 'Oh, I can't wait to make music today.' And I would wake up with so many ideas in my head, and always leave every studio session with a song."[11] All of the songs on If Not Winter were produced entirely in a studio setting aside from their vocal melodies, which Wisp initially developed at home through listening to their instrumental tracks with her earbuds and singing over them, similar to how she worked on "Your Face" and "See You Soon" (2024).[21] In an interview with Guitar.com, she estimated that 85% of the album's instrumentation (including guitars, bass and drums) was recorded and performed live, with the remaining being filled out by digital and MIDI-programmed synths.[9] At different recording studios, she played Fender Stratocaster, Fender Jaguar, Les Paul Goldtop, and Harmony-branded guitars.[9]

"Sword", "After Dark", and "Mesmerised" were all written in Brentwood,[2] and were titled after books Greenland's parents owned.[13] "Save Me Now" was the only song on If Not Winter that was not written entirely from scratch;[7] after initially collaborating with Linkin Park drummer Colin Brittain, she reworked the song with Stint and changed its melodies.[22] "Guide Light" was recorded at Sleeper Sounds[1] in London with Grayskies.[2] The song was initially recorded using a live band setup[9] with bassist Daniel Phillips and Bar Italia drummer Liam Toon,[2][23] after which Wisp recorded additional guitar and theremin parts.[9] "Serpentine" was written by Wisp and Epstein and produced primarily by Darcy Baylis.[22] "Black Swan" was recorded shortly before Wisp was due to submit If Not Winter after her team encouraged her to add another song to the album;[9] recording it in a few days with Kraus before reworking its lyrics and vocal melodies with Stint.[24] Despite feeling burnt out, she felt the song "was exactly what the album needed".[9] Of the 60 written for the album, Wisp selected songs for the album's tracklist based on whether she still enjoyed listening to them months after they were recorded and had no doubts about them.[25] Lars Stalfors mixed most of the album's tracks at Lankershim Studios in Los Angeles,[d] and it was mastered by Ruairi O'Flatherty at Nonographic Mastering in Los Angeles.[1]

Composition

[edit]

If Not Winter is a shoegaze,[26] nu gaze,[27][28] dream pop,[28][29] and alternative rock[19] album that expands upon the music style of Pandora , retaining [...] heavy distortion, dynamics, uhhh, whilst


with its incorporation of greater pop and electronic music elements,(MANY) alongside those from folk (rock), bedroom pop,[26] and nu metal.[26][27] Its songs


Kristen S. Hé of NME described its style as "pop shoegaze" with Wisp's "crisp vocal melodies" at the forefront of its songs, followed by lyrics and atmosphere.[4] The album's songs feature [...] marked by [...] GUITARS. [...] dynamics (or at least, alterations) between light and dark[30] [...] what else (do more) [...]


Wisp said that she intended If Not Winter to prove to people that "I am capable of more than the sound that they attach me to" due to their lack of input in the instrumentals of their early releases,[13] and showcase elements of other genres they liked, including folk, emo,[13] hyperpop,[13][16] pop,[16] jazz, and hardcore,[31] into her music.[13] In interviews promoting the album, she also expressed a desire to move beyond being categorized as a shoegaze act and instead be described as alternative rock,[16][32] citing a desire to not be constrained to a "specific term or [...] community" by genre purists,[7] and others' perceptions of her being a cause of a "watering down" of shoegaze caused by a "lack of knowledge".[24]

Lyrics

[edit]

The lyrics of If Not Winter are all based on Wisp's experiences in the time she spent writing the album,[25] (following her relocation to Los Angeles: re-read line of best fit quote again[14]) and see her reflecting on her personal growth, interactions with others, and stress from making music and touring.[20] [...] explore themes of love, fear,[7] guilt,[32][8] insecurities,[32] self-love, and self-doubt.[7] Parts of her lyrics were derived from her personal journals, which she felt gave them stream-of-consciousness qualities.[11] Wisp's interest in mermaids and experiences growing up near Ocean Beach, San Francisco, inspired the recurring appearence of water metaphors in the album's lyrics.[6][8] Matt Young of The Line of Best Fit interpreted the album as either an "escapist or protectionist" response to Wisp's sudden rise to fame, and an attempt to "[craft] emotional clarity from any potential chaos" from it.[33]

paste: "romantic dread", lyrical drama prevalent: "romantic in a grotesque and sullen manner that is akin to the yearning Lu’s influences favor".[19]

She also viewed its songs as generally being more positive due to her "just being present [sic]."[14]

fanasty imagery

Flood: "disarmingly and phantasmagorically specific" [...] "Both the album and its online ephemera are immersed in dark fantasy, à la Labyrinth and The Last Unicorn"[29]

Wisp's lyrics drew heavy influence from Sappho, [...] after her manager gave her the poetry collection If Not, Winter (2002) by Anne Carson.[14][34] Wisp said that she admired Sappho's poetry for the perceived timelessness of its themes surrounding love,[25] and resonated with her straightforward writing style: "Her being able to write poetry with such little words, but convey such a strong message, was really heartfelt to me because I feel like I was going through a lot at that time, and I didn't know necessarily how to convey what I felt to my friends or my family. [...] All I needed to be was honest with myself, and I feel like Sappho is always honest in her writing."[35] [...] titled the album as a homage.[34] [...] When asked by The Luna Collective which other writers inspired her, Wisp cited poets Joan Didion, Sylvia Plath, Ocean Vuong, and Virginia Woolf, and authors Fyodor Dostoevsky, Franz Kafka, and Oscar Wilde.[32] She also expressed admiration for Adrienne Lenker's artistry and songwriting, crediting her with "really push[ing] me to just write better lyrics".[13][32]

Wisp likened If Not Winter to a short story collection,[11] with its songs being "different chapters that tell a story",[36] [...] more of diary entires than a straightforward story[25] [...] She sought to creative an immersive world inspired by childhood daydreams and enjoyment of princess movies, and the Harry Potter and Barbie film series inspired the album's narritive and the use of transitions between tracks.[21] [...] An accompying press release presented the album as a medieval fantasy quest in which Wisp collects "magic talismans or holy grails from villages she can now call home";[37] when asked by Somersault about how she viewed the album in this context, Wisp said that "all of these things that I'm collecting and putting into my music, it's, you know, just me learning about the way that I handle my own emotions and the way that I feel other people perceive me and the way that I perceive myself [...] everything that I write about contributes to my character and how I want to grow".[20] Referencing the press release, Kieran Press-Reynolds of Pitchfork described the album as a "musical hero's journey" that ends with Wisp "realiz[ing] that the pain she's endured was worth it".[38]

Songs (3/12 rough)

[edit]

If Not Winter's opening track, "Sword", details feelings of shame, confusion and insecurity from being hidden by a romantic partner.[2][39] Wisp said that the song felt "like a real-time development of grief, betrayal, and hurt, like my character is finally waking up."[40] The song begins with acoustic guitars and "electronic washes"[41] before breaking into a "wall" of overdriven, swooping power chords, in a manner that Mark Richardson of The Wall Street Journal likened to an electronic dance music (EDM)-style beat drop.[27] "Breathe Onto Me" features "wailing" guitars and powerful drums,[19] over which Wisp describes the alternatingly "innocent and lustful" nature of physical relationships;[42] Olivia Abercrombie of Paste likened its "sweet lyrics of complete devotion" to a hex.[19] (mention stereogum: unlike lots of shoegaze, it's explicity about sex)[43] Wisp intended the song as a tribute to their early fanbase,[20] and to showcase her growth from her previous releases in "connect[ing] a new sound to an old sound".[2] "Save Me Now" is about sacrificing one's wellbeing in wanting attention and love from a "savior",[44] and was inspired by a crush Wisp had that she did not recognise as being unhealthy for them at the time.[20] [...] featuring guitars alternating between "jangly to vicious" and shifting drum patterns.[19] "After Dark" focuses on the end of a relationship[6] and struggles of not knowing how to deal with the feeling of falling out of love.[2] [...] unrushed, unhurried pacing [...][19] On "Guide Light", Wisp confronts her feelings of self-doubt surrounding their growth and career[14][45] over unsettling keyboards, "hazy" guitars and trip-hop beats,[41] with its hook featuring an ominous, "UFO-like" synth.[14] "guitars slow to a crawl halfway through"[4] [...] The ambient interlude "Latvia" features bird sounds, church bells, and echoing piano,[41] was intended to capture [...] ethereal mood of recording "Sword" music video [...][2][21] Wisp said that the song was intended to "kind of be a transition from the brighter side of [If Not Winter] into a more bittersweet side of the album".[35]

"If Not Winter" is an emo ballad[4] that opens with soft synthesizers reminiscient of steel guitars and "death march" drums.[19] [...] before fading into a solo piano.[4] [...] Wisp considered it thematically similar to "After Dark" albeit with additional themes of guilt and resentment.[2] [...] no, the song basically centers on guilt over ending a relationship.(many sources, i'm sure) [...] "Mesmerized" [...] arena-sized hooks[33] metal and alternative-pop influence.[19] [...] opens with "crystalline static" that Press-Reynolds felt hinted at My Bloody Valentine's "wonky feedback sampling".[38] is about a person Wisp was obsessed with.[2] "Serpentine" is a summery love song[2] [....] Clash: "'Serpentine' may come off as expertly executed 90s guitar pop, but the push-and-pull of relationship politics is genuinely affecting."[46] [...] 2000s pop-punk[19] [...] Wisp wrote "Get Back to Me" after observing a turbulent relationship between two of her friends, and considered it an "exercise for me not to just write about my own experiences, but other people's experiences as well."[2] Neville Hardman of Alternative Press [...] about "greed for chaos" and being trapped in a cycle of "desperation, recklessness, and limerence" [...] and progresses into "pedal-warped heaviness".[47] "Black Swan" [...] details Wisp's struggles of being in the limelight or smth like that.[2][34] [...] journal recital. directly from the journal[48] wisp on song+comp[49] [...] Murray compared the song's "barbed sonics" to Mogwai.[46] If Not Winter's closing track, "All I Need", is a whispered acoustic ballad[27][38] that Wisp intended as a homage to her beginnings as a musician and songwriter.[2][25]

Release and promotion

[edit]

See also: If Not Winter Tour

The ambient interlude "Latvia" was inspired by Wisp's experiences of filming the music video for "Sword" at Rundāle Palace (pictured).

Wisp served the creative director of If Not Winter,[50] whose visuals incorporate medieval and fantasy imagery inspired by [...] childhood fantasies and [...] and films/works including World of Warcraft (the films or the games?),[7] Game of Thrones,[11] and The Lord of the Rings.[14] The visuals also draw influence from "dark gothic" works including Nosferatu (2024) and [fogginness of] Ocean Beach.[21] Wisp said she was unsure of If Not Winter's aesthetic direction until it was decided that "Sword" would be released as the album's lead single.[51] The song's accompanying music video was filmed at Rundāle Palace in Latvia,[35][52] and features her as [...] (Wonderland; "relationship roleplay as a sad, frustrated princess who longs to be acknowledged by her knight in shining armour."[13]) when filming video: gates opened as she approached, bell chime, waltz music [...] Wisp really really felt like a princess. (Hero:) "That feeling really inspired the themes of the album." (+ the "Latvia" interlude)[21][35] The cover was photographed by in Topanga, California, by Elinor Rey, who shot the cover through a glass dome to give it a "foggy" watercolor effect and appear as though it was taken from a story book.[13][1] AllMusic's Heather Phares considered to the cover to be "an apt visualization of the massive forces [Wisp] holds in check on [the album]", referring to its "towering sounds" and the pressures of continuing the viral success of "Your Face".[41] (what else was i gonna say about aesthetics..)

Wisp performing at UC Santa Barbara in November 2025

"Sword" was released as the lead single from If Not Winter on March 14, 2025.[39] "Get Back to Me" was released the album's second single on April 18,[47][53] five days after Wisp debuted the song live at Coachella,[54] with "Save Me Now" following as the third single on June 6, 2025.[44] On June 23, 2025, Wisp announced that If Not Winter had been completed[55] and unveiled its release date, alongside a visualizer for "Save Me Now".[56][57] "Breathe Onto Me" was released as the fourth single on July 18, 2025. Although the song was advertized as being the final single from If Not Winter,[42] "Serpentine" was released as its fifth and final single on July 29, 2025.[58] The album was first released on streaming services through Music Soup and Interscope Records on August 1, 2025,[57] alongside a music video for "Black Swan".[59] The album was released on CD on August 29, 2025,[60] after which it debuted at number 37 on the Billboard Top Current Albums Sales chart,[61] and on vinyl on December 5, 2025.[62]

Wisp embarked on a headlining world tour, the If Not Winter Tour, with a live band featuring Epstein on guitar, Ryder McLaughlin on bass, and CapittiFenton on drums.[48] [...] live visuals: "That full live experience includes dreamlike visuals, including white lights, drapery, and keyhole and window-esque projections."[...] (you could spin off into another article... not now though)[11] The tour commenced in North America from August 22 to October 8, 2025, in between which time she played six shows supporting System of a Down.[63] She then travelled to Europe, where she toured until November 2.[56][63] On November 13, she performed a show at UC Santa Barbara.[64] Wisp toured Asia from January 18 to February 1, 2026,[65] after which she performed at the Laneway Festival in Australia, alongside two side-shows in the cities of Sydney and Melbourne, from February 5 to 14.[66] On April 18, 2026, Wisp released an a limited edition EP for Record Store Day, If Not Winter: The Demos/Live Version,[67] featuring live recordings of "Breathe Onto Me", "Save Me Now" and "Get Back to Me" from The Bomb Factory in Dallas, Texas, and acoustic demos of "Sword", "If Not Winter" and "Serpentine".[68]

Critical reception

[edit]
Professional ratings
Aggregate scores
SourceRating
AnyDecentMusic?7.2/10[69]
Metacritic75/100[70]
Review scores
SourceRating
AllMusicStarStarStarStar[41]
Clash8/10[46]
Kerrang!4/5[30]
The Line of Best Fit7/10[33]
NMEStarStarStarStar[4]
OndaRock5.5/10[28]
Paste7.3/10[19]
Pitchfork5.8/10[38]
Spectrum Culture60%[71]

On review aggregator website Metacritic, If Not Winter holds a score of 75 out of 100, based on reviews from seven critics, indicating "generally favorable reviews."[70] AllMusic's Heather Phares stated that the album "secures Wisp's place as one of the acts defining the sound of shoegaze in the 2020s" and praised its improvements in structure and songwriting from Pandora. She also felt its lyrics' jointly poetic and personal nature impacted and shaped the mood of its songs.[41] Robin Murray of Clash [...] "is surely her most evolved statement – in turns beauteous and bleak, it's fusion of airy light and crushing, metal-adjacent dark neatly summarises a potent creative force." [...] similarly praised the album's growth from Pandora and emotive songwriting, concluding that "If this is the next wave of shoegaze, then the legacy of My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive et al is in creative hands."[46] Abercrombie of Paste praised Wisp for largely avoiding the formulaic songwriting of her earlier works and highlighted its "unique genre bending", [...] thing bout vocals/collaborators[19] Annie Parnell of FLOOD described Wisp's lyrics as being "standout" across the album, describing them as "fitting homages to a genre that often depicts love as dissolution, and a poetic evolution for her own writing."[29] Andie Kirby of Paper praised the album as "[Wisp's] strongest project to date, solidifying her sharp, seductive stake in the alternative scene", whilst describing its sonic range as "singular and stunning."[72]

Kristen S. Hé of NME labelled it a "triumphant debut" showcasing "the sound of a young artist who's still growing into herself", though felt its "emotional details" were occasionally "swept up in the wall of sound".[4] Emma Wilkes of Kerrang! felt that the album's sound was "by no means a reinvention, but it's not regurgitation either – it is still hers", and viewed it as marking the start of her developing an "an even more individual" one.[30] (REDO) Matt Young of The Line of Best Fit believed it listeners would have to "forage and find [their] own touchstones" on the album or "be left wandering around the realm she inhabits admiring the craft without feeling its warm embrace." (/REDO)[33]

Rolling Stone felt that If Not Winter showed why Wisp was "arguably the biggest artist" of the shoegaze revival, with the songs "Sword" and "Breathe Onto Me" displaying her mastery of "the combination of whispery vocals and huge, crashing instrumentation that has made [the genre] an enduring cross-generational favorite."[73] Micah Phua of Vogue Singapore described the album as "textbook shoegaze masterfully reworked for a modern audience" that resists "formulaic imitation with a degree of awareness that belies [Wisp's] youth",[74] whilst Andrew Sacher of BrooklynVegan felt that the album's incorporation of elements from older and newer variants of shoegaze alongside those of other genres including nu metal and bedroom pop broadened its appeal and showed Wisp was "doing something new [...], [and] not merely tapping into '90s revivalism".[26] Mark Richardson of The Wall Street Journal believed that whilst older listeners of shoegaze would see the album as "well crafted yet overly familiar and unadventurous", newer listeners of the genre would appreciate its "subtle technological updates and integration of new influences".[27] Conversely, Holly Hazelwood of Spectrum Culture felt that, despite of Wisp's promises in interviews to diverge from shoegaze on the album, it "doesn't sound all that interested in deviating from the path" and likened it to an extended version of Pandora.[71] Press-Reynolds of Pitchfork criticized the album for "[simulating] the thrill of reckless, no-holds-barred rock without actually fucking with the formula", viewing its songs as being either derirative or lacking impact.[38] OndaRock's Peppe Trotta likewise remarked that despite its "focused" arrangements and "meticulous" direction, the album failed "to offer real emotional peaks, much less elements of innovation."[28]

Dork ranked If Not Winter at number 91 on its list of the best albums of 2025.[75]

Track listing

[edit]
If Not Winter track listing
No.TitleWriter(s)Producer(s)Length
1."Sword"
2:26
2."Breathe Onto Me"
  • Lu
  • Zach CapittiFenton
  • Epstein
  • Grayskies
  • CapittiFenton
  • Grayskies
  • Photographic Memory
  • Stint
3:58
3."Save Me Now"
  • Brittain
  • Stint
3:02
4."After Dark"
  • Lu
  • Robinson
  • Greenland
  • Bhattacharyya
  • Aldn
  • Greenland
  • Stint
2:55
5."Guide Light"
  • Lu
  • Grayskies
  • Daniel Phillips
  • Liam Toon
  • Grayskies
  • Stint
3:48
6."Latvia"
  • Lu
  • Bhattacharyya
Stint1:14
7."If Not Winter"
  • Lu
  • Robinson
  • Greenland
  • Bhattacharyya
  • Aldn
  • Greenland
  • Stint
4:46
8."Mesmerized"
  • Lu
  • Epstein
  • CapittiFenton
  • CapittiFenton
  • Photographic Memory
  • Stint
3:35
9."Serpentine"
  • Lu
  • Epstein
  • Darcy Baylis
  • Photographic Memory
  • Baylis
  • Stint
3:04
10."Get Back to Me"
  • Lu
  • Bhattacharyya
  • Robinson
  • Elliott Kozel
  • Greenland
  • Aldn
  • Kozel
  • Greenland
  • Stint
  • Photographic Memory[a]
3:10
11."Black Swan"
4:25
12."All I Need"
  • Lu
  • Robinson
  • Greenland
  • Aldn
  • Greenland
  • Stint
1:50
Total length:38:13

Notes

  • ^[a] signifies an additional producer
  • All tracks are stylized in sentence case.

Personnel

[edit]

Credits adapted from liner notes[1] and Tidal.[23] (these are not all the credits: reread liner notes again for musicians/technical)

Charts

[edit]
Chart performance for If Not Winter
Chart (2025) Peak

position

US Top Current Album Sales (Billboard)[61] 37

Release history

[edit]
Release history for If Not Winter
Region Label Format Date Catalog # Ref.
Various
August 1, 2025 602478175268 [76]
CD August 29, 2025 [60]
LP December 5, 2025 [62]

Notes

[edit]
  1. ↑ Tracks 1–4, 7–11[1]
  2. ↑ Tracks 2–5, 7–12[1]
  3. ↑ Track 5[1]
  4. ↑ "Save Me Now" was mixed by Stephen Kaye at SunKing Studios in Los Angeles.[1]

References

[edit]
  1. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Wisp (2025). If Not Winter (liner notes). Music Soup/Interscope Records. 602478175268.
  2. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Lu, Natalie R. (August 1, 2025). "Wisp breaks down every song on If Not Winter". Alternative Press. Archived from the original on January 5, 2026. Retrieved August 2, 2025.
  3. 1 2 3 Ewens, Hannah (January 21, 2025). "Wisp: The new face of nü gaze". Alternative Press. Archived from the original on September 14, 2025. Retrieved April 29, 2025.
  4. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Hé, Kristen S. (July 30, 2025). "Wisp – 'If Not Winter' review: pop shoegaze with ambition and vulnerability". NME. Archived from the original on September 13, 2025. Retrieved July 30, 2025.
  5. ↑ Andrews, Kira Imani (August 1, 2025). "Wisp brings the warmth on debut album 'If Not Winter' — Album Review". Melodic Magazine. Archived from the original on October 15, 2025. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  6. 1 2 3 4 5 Murray, Robin (August 1, 2025). "Morning Pages: Wisp Interviewed | Features". Clash. Archived from the original on August 1, 2025. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  7. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Jardim, Douglas (September 15, 2025). "Wonderland Meets: Wisp". Wonderland. Archived from the original on December 27, 2025. Retrieved December 5, 2025.
  8. 1 2 3 Hu, Jane (August 13, 2025). "The Dreamy Ascension of Wisp". ssense. Archived from the original on December 3, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  9. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Woods, Cat (September 18, 2025). ""Playing guitar is inherently a very cool thing to do" Wisp on leading the shoegaze revival with a sprinkling of nu metal thrown in". Guitar.com. Archived from the original on September 18, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  10. 1 2 Fitzmaurice, Larry (August 5, 2025). "Wisp on Melanie Martinez, Smosh, Brazilian Fans, and Navigating the Music Industry". Last Donut of the Night. Archived from the original on December 5, 2025. Retrieved December 5, 2025.
  11. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Lonsdale, John (September 30, 2025). "Inside the Dreamy Fantasy World of Wisp, Alt-Rock's New Star". Rolling Stone. Archived from the original on November 29, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  12. ↑ Porcar, Pablo (July 3, 2024). "[Entrevista] Wisp: "No me creía lo que estaba pasando cuando se viralizó mi música" - Binaural" [ [Interview] Wisp: "I couldn't believe what was happening when my music went viral."]. Binaural (in Spanish). Archived from the original on August 1, 2025. Retrieved April 29, 2025.
  13. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Lola, Roxy (August 27, 2025). "Ten Talks to Wisp". 10 Magazine. Archived from the original on September 10, 2025. Retrieved January 28, 2026.
  14. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 David, Laura (July 28, 2025). "Wisp is proof the internet can still make rock stars | Interview". The Line of Best Fit. Archived from the original on July 28, 2025. Retrieved July 29, 2025.
  15. 1 2 HQ (July 29, 2025). "Wisp Ethereal Power, Shoegaze Dreams, and the Brave Quest of If Not Winter". tmrw magazine. Retrieved August 4, 2025.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: deprecated archival service (link)
  16. 1 2 3 4 Fenison, Ben (June 9, 2025). "Wisp on Leaving "Shoegaze" Behind: Exclusive Coachella Interview 2025". Medicine Box. Archived from the original on November 13, 2025. Retrieved June 24, 2025.
  17. ↑ Newton, Felicity (June 25, 2025). "Wisp has announced their debut album 'If Not Winter' for August". Dork. Archived from the original on January 25, 2026. Retrieved June 25, 2025.
  18. ↑ Jardim, Douglas (September 15, 2025). "Wonderland Meets: Wisp". Wonderland. Archived from the original on December 27, 2025. Retrieved December 5, 2025.
  19. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Abercrombie, Olivia (August 1, 2025). "Wisp Sinks Her Teeth Into Shoegaze Ideas on If Not Winter". Paste. Archived from the original on August 1, 2025. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  20. 1 2 3 4 5 Royal, Jordan (August 6, 2025). ""I've grown so much as a person": Wisp on 'If Not Winter', self-discovery, and experimenting beyond shoegaze". 4ZZZ. Archived from the original on August 26, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025 – via Somersault.
  21. 1 2 3 4 5 Chandra, Shana (September 24, 2025). "Wisp: nu-gaze sounds, mystic worlds". Hero Magazine. Archived from the original on September 29, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  22. 1 2 Lu, Natalie R. (August 1, 2025). "Wisp breaks down every song on If Not Winter". Alternative Press. Archived from the original on January 5, 2026. Retrieved August 2, 2025.
  23. 1 2 "If Not Winter / Wisp / Credits". Tidal. Archived from the original on April 19, 2026. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  24. 1 2 3 Herh, Kala (August 1, 2025). "Meet Wisp, The Shoegaze Princess Beloved By Rick Owens". Coveteur. Archived from the original on August 2, 2025. Retrieved August 2, 2025.
  25. 1 2 3 4 5 Le, Isabella (August 19, 2025). ""Bringing My Fantasies into Reality": Wisp Is Betting on Herself with Debut Album 'If Not Winter'". Atwood Magazine. Archived from the original on August 23, 2025. Retrieved December 29, 2025.
  26. 1 2 3 4 Sacher, Andrew (August 1, 2025). "Notable Releases of the Week (8/1)". BrooklynVegan. Archived from the original on September 11, 2025. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  27. 1 2 3 4 5 6 Richardson, Mark (July 29, 2025). "'If Not Winter' by Wisp Review: A 'Nu-Gaze' on a Familiar Genre". The Wall Street Journal. Retrieved July 30, 2025.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: deprecated archival service (link)
  28. 1 2 3 4 Trotta, Peppe (September 18, 2025). "Wisp - If Not Winter: Viaggio nello shoegaze 3.0" [A journey into shoegaze 3.0]. OndaRock (in Italian). Archived from the original on September 18, 2025. Retrieved January 18, 2026.
  29. 1 2 3 Parnell, Annie (August 1, 2025). "Wisp, "If Not Winter"". FLOOD. Archived from the original on December 3, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  30. 1 2 3 Wilkes, Emma (July 29, 2025). "Album review: Wisp – If not winter". Kerrang!. Archived from the original on September 10, 2025. Retrieved July 30, 2025.
  31. ↑ Firth, Abigail (January 16, 2025). "Hype List 2025: Wisp is reinvigorating shoegaze for a new generation". Dork. Archived from the original on March 19, 2025. Retrieved June 24, 2025.
  32. 1 2 3 4 5 Aguirre, Jasmine (August 20, 2025). "Q&A: Inside Wisp's Own Fantasy World on Her Debut Album 'If Not Winter'". The Luna Collective. Archived from the original on August 25, 2025. Retrieved August 25, 2025.
  33. 1 2 3 4 Young, Matt (July 29, 2025). "Wisp: If Not Winter review - shoegaze luxury". The Line of Best Fit. Archived from the original on January 25, 2026. Retrieved August 16, 2025.
  34. 1 2 3 Shah, Rishi (October 23, 2025). "10 reasons why you need Wisp in your life". Kerrang!. Archived from the original on November 13, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  35. 1 2 3 4 Medithi, Vivian (July 28, 2026). "Wisp is bringing her new era shoegaze to arenas". The Fader. Archived from the original on July 30, 2026. Retrieved July 30, 2026.
  36. ↑ Fenison, Ben (June 9, 2025). "Wisp on Leaving "Shoegaze" Behind: Exclusive Coachella Interview 2025". Medicine Box. Archived from the original on November 13, 2025. Retrieved June 24, 2025.
  37. ↑ Pinder, Jaeden (June 24, 2025). "Wisp Announces Debut Album If Not Winter, 2025 Tour Dates". Consequence. Archived from the original on June 25, 2025. Retrieved December 5, 2025.
  38. 1 2 3 4 5 Press-Reynolds, Kieran (August 1, 2025). "Wisp: If Not Winter". Pitchfork. Archived from the original on September 16, 2025. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  39. 1 2 Adams, Gregory (March 14, 2025). "Hear System of a Down-approved nu-gazer Wisp's new song "Sword"". Revolver. Archived from the original on March 14, 2025. Retrieved June 25, 2025.
  40. ↑ Nasindes, Shama (June 15, 2026). "Interview | Wisp". Schön!. Archived from the original on July 1, 2026. Retrieved July 27, 2026.
  41. 1 2 3 4 5 6 Phares, Heather. "If Not Winter - Wisp | Album". AllMusic. Archived from the original on December 27, 2025. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  42. 1 2 Rossignol, Derrick (July 18, 2025). "Wisp Offers One More Pre-Album Single With 'Breathe Onto Me'". Uproxx. Archived from the original on July 23, 2025. Retrieved July 18, 2025.
  43. ↑ Breihan, Tom (July 18, 2025). "Wisp – "Breathe Onto Me"". Stereogum. Retrieved July 27, 2026.
  44. 1 2 Garner, Emily (June 6, 2025). "Listen to Wisp's "vulnerable" new single, Save me now". Kerrang!. Archived from the original on June 8, 2025. Retrieved June 25, 2025.
  45. ↑ Petraglia, Izzy (September 8, 2025). "Wisp Isn't Escaping Through Fantasy, She's Using It to Step Into Her True Self". Liminul Magazine. Archived from the original on December 3, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  46. 1 2 3 4 Murray, Robin (August 1, 2025). "Wisp – If Not Winter | Reviews". Clash. Archived from the original on August 1, 2025. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  47. 1 2 Hardman, Neville (April 18, 2025). "Wisp tries to break self-destructive loops on "Get back to me"". Alternative Press. Archived from the original on April 18, 2025. Retrieved June 24, 2025.
  48. 1 2 Jenkins, Mark (August 13, 2025). "'Nu-gaze' rocker went viral before her band even had a name". The Washington Post. ISSN 0190-8286. Retrieved August 16, 2025.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: deprecated archival service (link)
  49. ↑ Oguma, Toshiya (August 11, 2026). "Wispのシューゲイザーはなぜ「新しい」のか？ 轟音の奥にあるパーソナルな告白、独自の音楽観を語る" [Why is Wisp's shoegaze "new"? Personal confessions hidden beneath the roaring sound, and a discussion of their unique musical perspective.]. Rolling Stone Japan (in Japanese). p. 1. Archived from the original on August 11, 2026. Retrieved August 11, 2026.
  50. ↑ Davidson, Adam (July 31, 2025). "Wisp on Bringing Her Musical Fantasy World to Life". FLOOD. Archived from the original on November 9, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  51. ↑ Royal, Jordan (August 6, 2025). ""I've grown so much as a person": Wisp on 'If Not Winter', self-discovery, and experimenting beyond shoegaze". Somersault. Archived from the original on August 26, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  52. ↑ Wisp - Sword / Music Video. Archived from the original on June 17, 2025. Retrieved July 30, 2026 – via Panorama Production & Service Company.
  53. ↑ Cao, Katie (April 17, 2025). "Wisp Debuts 'Get Back to Me' at Coachella & More | Billboard News". Billboard. Archived from the original on April 18, 2025. Retrieved June 25, 2025.
  54. ↑ Campbell, Erica (April 17, 2025). "Coachella Backstage Interviews 2025". Paper. Archived from the original on September 20, 2025. Retrieved April 29, 2025.
  55. ↑ whirrwhoreforlyfe (June 23, 2025). "I can't believe im finally announcing this- my debut album 'If Not Winter' is finished and coming out on August 1st EEEEEK!!! I've been working on this album for over a year now and as challenging as it has been, this was the most rewarding and healing experience of my life, and more-so when it's yours too 🥹". Instagram. Archived from the original on April 19, 2026. Retrieved April 19, 2026.
  56. 1 2 Pearis, Bill (June 24, 2025). "Wisp announce debut album & headline tour: hear 3 tracks". BrooklynVegan. Archived from the original on August 13, 2025. Retrieved June 25, 2025.
  57. 1 2 Breihan, Tom (June 24, 2025). "Wisp Announces Debut Album 'If Not Winter': Hear "Save Me Now"". Stereogum. Archived from the original on June 24, 2025. Retrieved June 25, 2025.
  58. ↑ Terpstra, Ivo (July 29, 2025). "Shoegaze | Wisp - Serpentine". Nieuweplaat.nl (in Dutch). Archived from the original on August 9, 2025. Retrieved August 1, 2025.
  59. ↑ Revolver Staff (August 1, 2025). "Hear nu-gaze rising star Wisp's debut album 'If Not Winter'". Revolver. Archived from the original on August 1, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  60. 1 2 "If Not Winter by Wisp | CD". Barnes & Noble. Retrieved September 12, 2025.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: deprecated archival service (link)
  61. 1 2 "Top Current Album Sales: Week of September 13, 2025". Billboard. Archived from the original on September 18, 2025. Retrieved September 9, 2025.
  62. 1 2 "If Not Winter by Wisp | Vinyl LP". Barnes & Noble. Retrieved September 12, 2025.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: deprecated archival service (link)
  63. 1 2 Brasil, Sydney (June 24, 2025). "Wisp Details Debut Album 'If Not Winter,' Plots Tour". Exclaim!. Archived from the original on September 1, 2025. Retrieved June 25, 2025.
  64. ↑ Cortinez-Vences, Keyli (December 1, 2025). "Wisp transforms The Hub into a shoegaze dreamscape". Daily Nexus. Archived from the original on December 1, 2025. Retrieved December 2, 2025.
  65. ↑ Go, Mayks (November 24, 2025). "Wisp To Bring 'If Not Winter' Tour To Manila In January 2026". Billboard Philippines. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  66. ↑ Veress, Ben (October 7, 2025). "Wisp Announces Australian Sideshows Amid Laneway Festival 2026". Blunt Magazine. Retrieved January 28, 2026.
  67. ↑ Willman, Chris (April 18, 2026). "Record Store Day 2026's Most Wanted: Taylor Swift, Pink Floyd, Tom Petty, Brandi Carlile, Hilary Duff, 'Demon Hunters,' Bruce Springsteen and Laufey Lead a List of 350 Exclusives". Variety. Retrieved April 19, 2026.
  68. ↑ "RSD '26 Special Release: Wisp - If Not Winter - The Demos/Live Version". Record Store Day. Archived from the original on April 18, 2026. Retrieved April 18, 2026.
  69. ↑ "If Not Winter by Wisp reviews". Any Decent Music. Retrieved September 13, 2025.
  70. 1 2 "If Not Winter by Wisp". Metacritic. Archived from the original on August 23, 2025. Retrieved August 2, 2025.
  71. 1 2 Hazelwood, Holly (August 8, 2025). "Wisp: If Not Winter". Spectrum Culture. Archived from the original on August 25, 2025. Retrieved August 25, 2025.
  72. ↑ Kirby, Andie (October 1, 2025). "Wisp Rocks On". Paper. Archived from the original on October 9, 2025. Retrieved December 5, 2025.
  73. ↑ Dolan, Jon; Sheffield, Rob; Vozick-Levinson, Simon (October 2025). "Meet the New Generation of Shoegaze Bands". Rolling Stone. No. 1404. Penske Media Corporation. p. 14. ISSN 0035-791X.
  74. ↑ Phua, Micah (November 12, 2025). "Float in a sea of sound with shoegaze—one of music's most empathetic and empowering subgenres". Vogue Singapore. Archived from the original on December 29, 2025. Retrieved December 5, 2025.
  75. ↑ "Dork's albums of the year 2025: 100-81". Dork. December 1, 2025. Archived from the original on December 8, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  76. ↑ Newton, Felicity (June 25, 2025). "Wisp has announced their debut album 'If Not Winter' for August". Dork. Retrieved June 25, 2025.
[edit]

scraps

[edit]

KEXP's Chris Sanley called it both "compelling" and "an exceptional first outing",[1]

Wisp was stylized in a white Givenchy dress for the cover by Marta Del Rio [...] (coveteur)

coveteur on writing lyrics:

I'm always daydreaming while writing my journal entries. My mind wanders almost instantly when I'm reading or writing words, so the visuals come naturally. I grew up loving mythical creatures—like mermaids, centaurs, witches. And a lot of that ties into nature and natural elements that help me write more visceral metaphors. I find reading to be a really good practice too, because it's up to you to paint a picture of what the movie of that book looks like, page by page. The writing styles I consume, the visuals I grew up with...all of these things have helped me find my own unique writing style that I can now tie into my own childhood fantasies.

i actively despise the idea of citing "zoomergaze" here because why date this shit? stop infantilizing gen z. but... aghhhhh fuck,

https://www.vice.com/en/article/4-artists-to-introduce-you-to-zoomergaze-shoegazes-alternative-little-sibling/

https://www.behindtheblinds.be/love/ethereal-soundscapes

tmrw's archive pages dont really work/are incomplete, so... avoid?? not too sure about this one:

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/wisp-cover-green-day-last-night-on-earth-triple-j-like-a-versio-1236180188/

Kira Imani Andrews of Melodic Magazine [...]

idk what to do with this its choppy af:

By January 2025, she was still in the early stages of writing and recording.(dork's hype list 2025)[2]

Ocean Beach was an influence on if not winter's visuals

(fuck yeah wisp lesgo!!! improvement queen. this is WHY i love wisp. has head on taken the challenge and WON BY A MILLION FUCKINHG MILES)

Every morning after waking up, she wrote down her thoughts and feelings on morning pages/diary/journals (clash)

review??

https://www.onestowatch.com/en/blog/welcome-to-the-gauzy-dreamscape-of-wisps-debut-album-if-not-winter

https://www.kexp.org/read/2025/8/4/new-music-reviews-84/

https://www.ondarock.it/recensioni/2025-wisp-ifnotwinter.htm

https://www.onestowatch.com/en/blog/welcome-to-the-gauzy-dreamscape-of-wisps-debut-album-if-not-winter

news

https://femmusic.com/2025/07/31/wisp-if-not-winter/

https://www.revolvermag.com/music/hear-nu-gaze-rising-star-wisps-debut-album-if-not-winter/

(also check UMG press things)

interviews

https://www.thefader.com/2026/07/28/wisp-is-bringing-her-new-era-shoegaze-to-arenas

https://www.tmrwmagazine.com/en/news/wisp-ethereal-power-shoegaze-dreams

https://www.clashmusic.com/features/morning-pages-wisp-interviewed/

https://floodmagazine.com/200941/wisp-if-not-winter-in-convo/

https://coveteur.com/meet-wisp-the-shoegaze-princess-2673790188

https://www.altpress.com/wisp-if-not-winter-song-breakdown/

https://atwoodmagazine.com/wisp-if-not-winter-album-interview-music-feature-2025/

https://www.somersaultmagazine.com/interviews/wisp

https://www.thelunacollective.co/journal/qa-wisp-2025

https://www.ssense.com/en-gb/editorial/culture/wisp-natalie-lu-if-not-winter-interview (NOTE: THIS CANNOT BE FUCKING ARCHIVED. GO FIGURE i did save a pdf tho)

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/core/wisp-iv/105666492

https://www.wonderlandmagazine.com/2025/09/15/wonderland-meets-wisp/

http://guitar.com/features/interviews/wisp-interview-if-not-winter/

https://www.russh.com/in-conversation-with-wisp/

https://www.thelunacollective.co/journal/qa-wisp-2026

https://rollingstonejapan.com/articles/detail/45208/1/1/1

Conversely, Olivia Abercrombie of Paste opined that despite descriptions of Wisp's music as (medieval descriptions), had more of an "eldritch quality" to them.

Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way confirmed.


According to AllMusic's Heather Phares, "While writing Wisp's debut album, Lu continued to push her music's boundaries, pairing everyday problems mined from her journals with mythical imagery and the work of poets including Sappho and taking musical inspiration from Mazzy Star, Mojave 3, and William Basinski." (couldn't be more succinct if i tried)[3]


TMRW ON AESTHETICS

4. There's this underlying fantasy concept to the album—magic talismans, emotional quests. Was that always intentional, or did it evolve naturally?

It was very intentional when diving into the creative direction and world-building during my first singles, ever since 'Your face'. I grew up loving mermaids and lived by the beach my whole life, so using imagery of water was a no-brainer and just felt right. I figured if I could live out my fantasies of being a mermaid, I could be an angel too…and a princess, a knight, and so on. Every visual aspect of Wisp stems from my childhood dreams. It's the world I've built in my head years before Wisp even existed, just now- it has a home.

10 magazine aussie on writing/wisp's plans to produce songs themselves

I will produce time to time, but I mainly work with other producers just because I am terrible at using DAWs, especially Ableton. I've tried so much, like I've invested a lot of time in learning them, but I don't think I've invested enough time just because there's so many elements that go into producing, and I like having a fresh perspective and different styles from different producers on my music. So being able to just write the guitar riffs and write my lyrics in vocal melodies is, is enough for me to create myself express myself the way I want to.

etc DORK: "I feel like if I listen to too much shoegaze, I won't have that experimental mindset that I want to go into the studio with." [...]

gonna enbolden this because its fucking important: IF NOT WINTER IS THE FIRST WISP (ALBUM/RELEASE) WHERE WISP HAD COMPLETE CREATIVE CONTROL. REMEMBER THIS YOU FUCK. (10 magazine australia)

Andie Kirby of Paper [...] "The album is her strongest project to date, solidifying her sharp, seductive stake in the alternative scene. She spins stories of defeat at the hands of passion, with lyrics that pair effortlessly with orchestrations ranging from soft piano melodies to hard drumlines and walls of electronic guitars. Her sonic range on If Not Winter is singular and stunning."

tmrw, on "breathe onto me"

I feel like 'Breathe onto me' serves as a homage to my past work but reflects my artistic growth. It's a good blend between my old sound and my newer sound- what people were attracted to initially but with a more mature outtake. It's challenging to find a good balance between what you think or know your listeners will like and what you truly want to make yourself. I feel like I allowed myself full creative freedom on this album, but 'Breathe onto me' roots back to my older music which I think is sweet to have too.

unrelated/etc

somersault, the medieval themes:

Something that strikes me too on this album is the blend of like a shoegaze, heavier sort of sound with mythology and fantasy. I feel like I haven't seen those two paired together that much. How did those medieval themes, and I guess like fantasy world-building, find their way into your writing? Was it something that you had intentionally sought after or did it sort of just end up unfolding?

Wisp: I think it came to me naturally and I didn't have a very clear vision of what I wanted the visuals or the world around the album to be until we decided that Sword would be the first single coming out for the album. And I ended up going down this medieval, almost princessy, romantic, novel kind of route because it's something reoccurring in my childhood dreams and all of the books that I read growing up. And I think now that I am able to exercise my creativity in more ways than just one, meaning more than music, I can creative direct and bring in this visual world that I've always wanted to live since I was a kid. So it's kind of a chance for me to bring my dreams into reality. And by tying that into my music, I think it's the perfect reflection of myself as an artist now and where I came from and how I grew up

wsj on wisps vox performance on "sword"

Her high, thin voice conveys the feeling of something delicate and vulnerable that has been caught in a destructive vortex as she sings of fear and crippling shyness.

uhhh guitar.com

Lu's taste in oddball guitars stretches to a non-standard attitude to lyrics too. Her songwriting process is all about an organic, unforced approach.

"I usually start with guitar, and [writing the] lyrics depends. I might think of them on the way to the studio and write them into my phone, but at other times I'll write them after the guitar and bass are tracked and I'm feeling out the landscape of a song. As long as lyrics come to me naturally and I'm not taking more than 30 minutes to write them. The less time I have with them, the more raw and honest they sound."


BREATHE ONTO ME (FLOOD)

I wrote ["Breathe Onto Me"] almost two years ago, around the time I released "See You Soon" and "Once Then We'll Be Free." I was writing more simple and broad lyrics—not that I think they're less in value than what I write nowadays, but I think the music I've been making for this album has so much more depth and vulnerability to it. But "Breathe Onto Me" is fun to include on the album because it's a mixture between my old sound and new sound, whether it's how I used to write lyrics and bringing in a new sound on the instrumental side or vice versa. I feel like the lyrics are simple and fun, but sometimes that's needed as a break, especially when the album covers such deep topics.

THE PROCESS:

One thing that helped me a bunch was to begin writing a song on acoustic guitar. I feel like playing acoustically massages my mind to think of not necessarily more complex ideas, but just different ones. Something I would've never thought to write on electric guitar. I feel like listening to an instrumental that is purely acoustic helps me come up with better vocal melodies too. Another big part in blending sounds into one was collaboration. When you have different artists and producers working on a song, the song becomes a melting pot of everyone's taste and style. I love working with people who don't make the same music that I do. It gives me such a refreshing perspective on things.

[...] lyrics written here: "Each day Wisp wakes up and scribbles down her Morning Page – an exercise where she writes three pages every morning, then puts them away and doesn't revisit for at least eight weeks. This is the bedrock of creative practise, a means to both expunge and memorialise her thoughts and feelings. "Being able to jot things down – how I'm feeling, or the weather that day – really helped me find an anchor, whether that's the words in my lyrics, or just a vibe."[4]

cut thsi down; line of best fit:

Line of Best Fit: Most of these stories came from her move to L.A., the strangeness and sadness that came from watching family relationships, friends, and romances shift before her eyes as she navigated notoriety in a new city. At the outset of the Wisp project, Lu was inclined to lean into that sadness, falling into that old but troublesome adage that the best art comes from pain. As her recording process continued – and as she found her footing in her new surroundings – she pressed herself for more. She wanted to write great songs not just about anxiety or loneliness but about positivity and presence. Tapping into that positivity was a direct result, she says, of refining her artistic practice. “Some of these songs on the album have a more positive outlook on life not necessarily because I found love or something specific to look forward to. It was just being present,” she explains.

[....]

so: "continues and expands on the direction of Pandora"

In college, she got that first taste of musical freedom. And once the Wisp project took off, she pushed those boundaries even further with a move to L.A., where her world expanded dramatically. "Once I moved to L.A., I realized that those kinds of people were literally everywhere and all I had to do was put myself out there, open my eyes, and just wear my music on my sleeve more and not be too afraid of people judging my taste," she explains.

So much of Wisp's allure, after all, isn't just her recordings but her world. Those luscious guitars are escapes as much as earworms, and her project to date has been as heavily rooted in fantasy as it has been in shoegaze or metal. Lu's imagery often shows her in Medieval costume, embracing a knight in armour or laying like a pixie in the grass. "Being able to write music that can also be attached to a visual world, I'm able to bring my own childhood fantasies into it," she tells me. The only kind of project she wants to make is one her inner child would have loved – the kind that draws from the stories of mythical creatures and Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. "I'm kind of building out a movie set in my head."

[...] also found additional lyrical and visual inspiration from Pinterest.[5]

Working with both longtime collaborator Max Epstein and new faces including Elliott Kozel, Gabe Greenland, and aldn, Lu's traditional sound gets the avant-pop treatment. Welcome electronic tints are added to the layers upon layers of guitar that usually fill Lu's mixes, around which her vocals and lyrics also come more into centre stage.

"This time around, I actually knew what I wanted to say," Lu tells me of working on her record. "Being able to write lyrics and get things off my chest and have the urge to write not just for someone but because I'm feeling a certain way and that writing will help me is how I gathered all of this material."


The transition from wunderkind to career artist can be fraught, at times. Some get lost in the hype, failing to find their voice inside all the noise. Others, like Wisp, go the opposite direction, leaning even more into themselves and what they think is cool, knowing that the rest will follow. With social analytics often acting as a prerequisite to record deals and big opportunities in the industry, the role of the artist as the tastemaker can easily be forgotten. Lu, however, is not one to forget.

"My songs [on this record] are more vulnerable and more connected to myself and my life stories, whereas I feel like on a couple of my past singles, I did write from my heart, but I wasn't as connected to the things I was writing about and a lot of the lyrics were solely for the purpose of being catchy or being relatable to other people, or just so that I could have a song out. All the tracks on this album actually mean something to me," she continues.

yeah

coveteur

On the note of fashion, you're wearing vintage Givenchy on the cover. How did you source the dress, and what drew you to it in particular?

W: Marta Del Rio styled me for the album shoot and brought a bunch of looks to choose from. The vintage Givenchy dress has such a princess-ey flow, which caught my eye right off the bat. We tried the dresses on in my apartment, and when I sat down on the floor in the Givenchy dress, it created this circle of flowy fabric around me. Simple and elegant, and it made me feel so pretty.

Fans have fallen in love with your sense of visual storytelling—are there any designers who you love in particular?

W: I feel like I didn't find my personal style until earlier this year, so being able to be more hands on with my styling and getting to play around with my stage outfits has been really fun and makes me feel more confident when I'm performing. Some of my favorite designers right now are Marc Le Bihan, Elena Dawson, and Ann Demeulemeester. I love to play with textures, layers, and dresses—some with a darker mood and some very feminine, almost baroque in style.

You've talked about letting go of things even when they're good—a theme running through If Not Winter. As your platform grows and your audience expands, what are you consciously holding onto, and what are you learning to let go of?

W: "I feel like I'm still holding onto the over-romanticization of things that happen in my life. I tend to blow things out of proportion just so I feel more inspired to write better lyrics. I think balance is necessary, and I can't let my maladaptive daydreamings and false fantasies cross the line of inspiration into delusion.

A big thing I'm currently learning to let go of is guilt. I get in my head about my actions, things as minuscule as a sentence said. Sometimes I view things as having more weight than they actually carry, and if I see it in a negative light, it eats away at me. It's good to remind myself that sometimes I'm just getting in my head. Accidentally forgetting to say goodbye to someone is not a reflection of my character. Being too friendly doesn't mean I was subconsciously being fake. Navigating my new life alone in LA and in the music scene can feel like walking on eggshells, but all I need to do is wear my heart on my sleeve and not calculate my every move."

I love "Black Swan" on your new album, where you sing, "How do I see myself now?/Shed all of my skin. But I grasp onto/The beauty laid within." Can you tell us more about this song and how it came to be?

W: "Black Swan" was a last-minute addition to the album, and I was kind of freaking out because of deadlines. I didn't have much faith at the beginning stages of this song, just because I was so fixated on the feeling that the album was done already. But I'm so glad we saw it through, and now it's one of my favorite tracks on this project. Kraus produced it and we spent a couple of days working on it, then I took it to Stint and wrote some more and revamped all my lyrics/vocal melodies.

I wrote this song about struggling with my imperfections and the harshness I gaze upon myself with because of my physical attributes. I've never been the type to be [in front of] the cameras, so adjusting to being in the public eye and seeing pictures of me from different angles under different lighting has really warped my perception of what I truly look like. I forget that I need to be kind to myself and have been through phases where I'm keeping my body in check or consistently overthinking minuscule details in pictures of myself. This song was a way for me to release these feelings and to also serve as a reminder that there is so much more value beyond physical appearance."

What do you hope someone listening to the album for the first time learns about you?

W: "hope they learn that versatility comes with time and experience. My music is a reflection of every stage of my life, from the music I listened to when I was younger to the people who have built me up or tried to bring me down. And it is also a reflection of my listeners. I hear their stories and the relatability that aligns with my music, and that makes me want to write not just for my own healing, but for theirs as well."

wisp, washington post

"Black Swan," one of the standout tracks on Wisp's new album, "If Not Winter," includes a section in which the singer-songwriter reads from her journal. Her recitation is buried in swirling guitars and electronics. The effect suggests that her voice is traveling through water, and that's entirely apt.

"I grew up near the beach, and being able to incorporate elements of feeling underwater is really important to me," the San Francisco native (a.k.a. Natalie Lu) says from Los Angeles, where she has lived for nearly two years.

Lu's style, which matches whispery vocals to stormy instrumentation, descends from Britain's 1990s shoegaze alt-rock and is sometimes called "nu-gaze." The musician began her career on a lark in 2023 by adding her vocals to an existing track by a producer who goes by the name Grayskies. The song, "Your Face," quickly became a hit on social media and music streaming services.

Grayskies is one of more than a dozen producers and songwriters who worked on "If Not Winter," an album that follows the contemporary mainstream-pop protocol of supplementing its star with multiple sidekicks. Yet the album, Wisp's long-form debut after a 2024 EP, has a unified sound.

"I think it still sounds cohesive because we all share similar styles," says Lu, who recently celebrated her 21st birthday. Also, she adds, "I just take it away and make it my own at the end of the day."

Lu's songs usually start simply — with her voice and acoustic guitar. "It feels more natural because I grew up, during covid, writing acoustic songs," she says. "I'm able to write better vocal melodies to acoustic guitar. It just feels more me, I think."

"If Not Winter" takes its title from a collection of verse by the ancient Greek lyric poet Sappho, whose work survived only in fragments.

"Just skimming through the book really inspired me to write better lyrics," Lu says. "And also to realize that people have been writing about the same themes for centuries. Themes of love and infatuation are always going to be immortal. I thought that was really cool."

Although the words are important to Lu, she tries to create them quickly. "I usually write my lyrics the day of writing the songs," she says. "I don't really like writing my lyrics beforehand because I tend to overthink. If I go into the studio and I write it while we're writing the music, it feels a lot more natural to me."

Sometimes music comes first, which can shape the words. "If the music sounds a bit sadder, then obviously I have direction to write more melancholic lyrics," she says. "But most of the time I write around the lyrics."

Lu's cooing voice sounds intimate, but few of her songs are autobiographical. One exception is "Black Swan," a last-minute addition to "If Not Winter."

"I thought it was perfect because most of my songs on the album were about other people, and this was one of the few songs that I wrote about myself," the singer says. "It's about how difficult it's been to grapple with finding self-confidence and self-love, especially being in the spotlight a lot more than I'm used to."

Lu will be in the spotlight again with a tour that begins next week in D.C. at 9:30 Club. Her band features guitarist Max Epstein and drummer Zach CapittiFenton, both of whom worked on "If Not Winter" as producers and songwriters, and bassist Ryder McLaughlin. Although the album features lots of synths, there's no keyboardist in the touring band.

Instead, the electronic textures will mostly be generated by guitar pedals, the devices that inspired the term "shoegaze": Guitarists who often looked at the gizmos at their feet seemed to be eyeing their footwear.

Such gear has been essential to Lu's evolution from acoustic to electric guitarist. "I started using pedals right when I started Wisp. I've been collecting them ever since and been getting really into them," she says. "It's been fun."

unrelated

https://web.archive.org/web/20130516111051/http://www.paramuspost.com/article.php/20070125235105876

interestting...

https://www.10magazine.com.au/articles/ten-talks-to-wisp

https://www.nopalitymag.com/concert-reviews/wisps-if-not-winter-houston-tour-debut

https://blurredculture.com/wisp-fonda-theatre-live-review-2025/ wisp, hero magazine interview

The inspiration behind the narrative of the album comes from my daydreams that I wanted to live out as a kid. Watching Harry Potter, Barbie, and all these princess movies growing up. I even had a princess-decorated room in my childhood home. Growing up with this media and how immersed I was in these fantasy worlds, I wanted to build an aura that other people could be immersed in, and not just children, but people of all ages. So, having the transitions in the album was really important to me – having the interlude Latvia was also very important. I wrote and produced that track with Stint, and I told him that I wanted it to feel exactly how I felt when I was in Latvia recording the Sword music video and walking up to the gates of a castle. When we were filming that scene, I was hearing the bell chime, and waltz music coming from that castle. It was just a huge coincidence that all of these sounds were happening at this exact moment. I think it was the only time in my life where I genuinely felt like I was living in a dream. Nothing felt real and I felt like an actual princess. That feeling really inspired the themes of the album.

wonderland

Together they [the producers] bring high fantasy to life, inward-looking imaginations are made a reality through grander, complex reverb-soaked compositions and a more mature approach to plaintive mythical storytelling. "I wanted to not just write about romance and relationships this time, I also wanted to write about self-doubt, my insecurities, my fears. Being able to break out of the box and write about self-love instead of my love for others."

and:

Making whatever music Lu wants and not having to label it shoegaze was a dominant strategy in the shaping of "If Not Winter". "As much as I love the shoegaze community, a lot of the purists can be very specific about the sound that comes with the label," she adds. "I don't want to restrain myself to a specific term or to one specific community. Taking my inspirations from shoegaze and adding my own twist into them, I kind of just label it all as alt rock now, and I'mable to now have this weight off my chest and experiment more with pop vibes and electronic vibes."

AND;

"Most of the songs, besides "Save me now", we all wrote from scratch. Max likes to do this thing where he'll ask for three words. Different adjectives that help guide us towards the direction of the vibe of the song, that could be solace or melancholy, nostalgia, childhood. I still feel like that makes it broad in a sense where we can turn a bright feeling song into something sad, just purely based on lyrics or the chord progression. We just build off each other."


flood

What do you think has changed in your writing style to show this vulnerability?

I just started to care more about what I wanted to say. Back then, I was really adamant about making good music, obviously, and I was very hard on myself whenever I'd release something. I felt that the stuff I was releasing still wasn't good enough. During the whole process of making the album, I've been exorcising everything I can out of me to not feel that way anymore. A big part of that was writing better lyrics and finding my own voice in my own writing style and making sure what I was saying lyrically was a good representation of myself.


SSENSE (is citable)

How would you describe the narrative of If Not Winter?

I think that the narrative really just follows the way I felt while creating the album. It isn't in the order of, you know, each song that I make, but I think that it still showcases, you know, the indulgences I had in making music and the people that I met, the relationships that I've been through, my self-doubt, my self-pity and insecurities that kind of came out and almost had to come out and become music because I felt all these things so strongly to make songs about them. So being vulnerable and putting my heart on my sleeve, I think pushed me to make the best art that I've made so far.

last donut of the night

In terms of what you write about lyrically, how personal do you feel like you're getting? Do you prefer to be a little cryptic?

I try to find a good balance between the two. I always write based off of personal life experiences, or things that people around me have experienced. There's always going to be a very direct connection to my life, and people can interpret my music however they want. When I write, I like leaving room for people to connect their own experience to my music, because that's what makes music enjoyable—and healing, too.

Do you feel like there's moments where you're pulling back or worried about revealing too much of yourself?

Oftentimes, no—and I think it's just because I feel like I don't really have anything to hide. Some of the tracks on the album show that I'm writing from a place of guilt and reflecting on my character. I've made bad decisions and bad mistakes, and I'm writing about my bad character. People will be able to decipher what I'm writing about, and I think that kind of accountability is really important when you are writing from a place of personal experience—because you're not always in the right, and not every single song is going to be about how someone wronged you. It could be about how you handled a personal experience or a relationship. Being vulnerable with that side of myself is very healing, and it also helps me reflect on my life. I just hope that when people listen to it, they can relate to it—because we're not all perfect, and finding that feeling in music is a really special thing.

You mentioned your "bad character." Talk to me more about scrutinizing yourself.

Self-scrutiny is a really difficult thing to comprehend, internally. What you may see as bad character could be seen as something completely different in someone else's eyes. So a lot of the things that I write about are me being hard on myself and wanting to be a better person, and working towards that goal. I always tell people that I think the meaning in life is to become the best version of yourself, and by reflecting on my experiences and the way that I handle my emotions...there's definitely a level of harshness that that comes with that, and people listening to my music and hearing my lyrics on how I feel about myself, whether it's my own insecurities or the way that I treated other people—or the way I treat myself, even—to be seen as almost in a pitiful light, or with sympathy or empathy, I think that is really cool and special, because they may feel the same things about themselves too. But to me, and to other people, we don't see it that way.

y

rolling stone

Lu's journal-like songwriting anchors the mythical, otherworldly atmosphere depicted on the album cover and Wisp's viral music videos. Take one of the album's highlights, "Sword," which has an accompanying visual where Wisp sits in a field in a flowing white gown and dances with a set of armor before donning the metal suit herself, sword in hand, standing in front of the ocean. Much like Wisp's other projects, the video looks like it could double as a chic fantasy series, albeit one with a cooler soundtrack.

"A lot of the creative direction from my music videos just come from things that I want to be real in the world," Lu says. "I wish that princesses were real, and I wish that mermaids were real. I wish unicorns were real, you know? And it's like all of my childhood fantasies, because I grew up watching a lot of movies, like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones." She makes a lot of these themes part of her artistry. "I think that all of that really inspires my visual world because I want it to be just completely unreal. It's really fun because I get to kind of live out my childhood fantasies when I'm on set for the music videos and that's also a super sick feeling. So it's like directing my own movie that I wish I acted in when I was little. I wanted to be part of the Harry Potter cast so bad. And now I'm able to kind of fulfill my fantasies."

[...]

WHEN WISP FINALLY hits the road for the tour, all of the songs that felt new to Lu will have become far more familiar. This time around, Lu has a front-of-house and lighting crew, and even new molded in-ears, too. "I really want it to kind of feel like you're watching a movie and the band is like the soundtrack at the same time," Lu says. "I think it's really cool because I grew up going to watch ballets with my mom. I want my live set to feel similar to that, where you're getting a full experience."

That full live experience includes dreamlike visuals, including white lights, drapery, and keyhole and window-esque projections. Beyond finding the aesthetic for the tour, Lu explains that she's "so pumped" about the group's sound. "We're getting more tight as a band," she says. "You know, the more we play together, the better we'll be, the more synergy we'll have."

rushh (interesting)

https://www.russh.com/in-conversation-with-wisp/

Her stages, lately, have been shared with acts that lean towards the masculine end of the sonic spectrum, a key to her sound is how she threads her own femininity through such male-dominated genres. "I think it comes naturally," she says simply. "I love girly things, and it shines through in my voice and what I write about. Hearing lyrics from a woman's perspective in this space is rare [so] it changes the light the songs are seen in."

atwood

Wisp: I didn't necessarily want to tell a narrative or a well-written story, just because I feel like if I wrote characters or if I wrote specific scenes, it wouldn't really pertain to my life. If we do view it as kind of like a storybook, I would say I'm the only character, and the story I'm trying to tell is showing people my diary entries, my journal entries, and letting them have a personal look into my life and my experiences. I'm giving myself the opportunity to be very vulnerable with my lyric-writing and my songwriting as well, because all these songs are very personal to things that happened to me, my situations, and the people that came into my life and left my life. I'm showing my own story of personal growth and reflection on who I am as a person, and how I've grown over this past year of writing the album. That was my goal.

the writing of "serpentine"

Wisp: I wrote "Serpentine" with Darcy and Max, and originally, it had this vocal melody that Darcy wrote. I wasn't super attached to it, just because it didn't fit my voice. I kind of rediscovered the song a couple of months later, and we rewrote a bit of the drum parts, the guitar parts, I wrote new vocal melodies and lyrics, and it became what it is today! I think the reason why we looked back on that song was because it, originally, from the start, had this very summery feeling, like you said, and I felt that that was exactly what the album was lacking. I really wanted the album to have at least a couple of feel-good songs that people could dance to and just not take too seriously.

Sappho (left) and Adrienne Lenker (right) served as major influences on the lyrics of If Not Winter.


.... uhh ....

featured article albums i may use as a reference guide... again

Alicia (album)

Windswept Adan

Weird Faith


The inspiration behind the narrative of the album comes from my daydreams that I wanted to live out as a kid. Watching Harry Potter, Barbie, and all these princess movies growing up. I even had a princess-decorated room in my childhood home. Growing up with this media and how immersed I was in these fantasy worlds, I wanted to build an aura that other people could be immersed in, and not just children, but people of all ages. So, having the transitions in the album was really important to me – having the interlude Latvia was also very important. I wrote and produced that track with Stint, and I told him that I wanted it to feel exactly how I felt when I was in Latvia recording the Sword music video and walking up to the gates of a castle. When we were filming that scene, I was hearing the bell chime, and waltz music coming from that castle. It was just a huge coincidence that all of these sounds were happening at this exact moment. I think it was the only time in my life where I genuinely felt like I was living in a dream. Nothing felt real and I felt like an actual princess. That feeling really inspired the themes of the album.

Wisp went into writing with the intention of moving herself beyond categorizations as a shoegaze act, which she found creatively limiting,(wonderland) (explain/redo)


SCRAP TEXT


wrote many lyrics bc of if not winter book; which is why it became the title. write about it HERE yall. (SOURCE??) [...] decided to name the album after writing its title track(???) [...] which Wisp's manager reccomended to her / became obbsessed w and definite influence n all that.(LOBF)

HOW SHIT WAS WORKED ON! also they used Pinterest for aesthetic inspiration sometimes lol (hero)

atwood, on the if not winter title and how poetry relate to le album (i.e. wisp liked its timelessness)

"I liked the fact that she [Sappho] existed centuries and centuries ago, and her poetry and her words read like modern art," Wisp professes her admiration for Sappho's poetry, which the title of her debut project draws from. "I think that's really special… people in the past have felt exactly the same way we do. It's really special – that love, and limerence, and sacrifice, and infatuation. They've been a thing for so long, and they're just parts of being human."


Did you know that... the medieval aesthetics of Wisp's debut album were initially inspired by the title of a book? (10 magazine)


10 magazine. uber important

Which producers have you worked with who have helped to shape your sound, especially on this album?

Definitely Max, my guitarist. And then another very big one was Alden [Robinson] and Gabe [Greenland] who produced After Dark, If Not Winter, All I Need, Sword. And then grayskies, of course, because he actually produced Your Face, but I hadn't met him until a couple months ago and we met up in London in person and wrote music together, which was fun.

Is your environment really important to your writing process?

One hundred percent. I feel like usually when I'm holed up in a studio with no windows and it's really sweaty in there, which is a lot of studios in LA, I feel very claustrophobic and it almost feels pressuring. It's not always a good vibe to be around. So being somewhere more refreshing like in the hills, like Gabe's childhood home was where we produced a lot of the songs and it was just so serene and peaceful looking out to the landscape and being able to sip tea with everyone before we started the writing process. So I think environment plays a very, very big part in me writing my music.

So with this being your debut album, did you have an intention going into it or a non-negotiable that you really wanted to express through this music?

Yeah, I think that the main priority for me was to just show people, especially because it's my very first album, that I am capable of more than the sound that they attach me to. I think that's just because when I started out making music, a lot of these were instrumentals and I didn't have full creative control because I was making these from my bedroom back at home. I was in college and I didn't know how to produce at the time. So now being able to work with these producers and work in person, I wanted full creative control over every aspect in my music. As a music enjoyer, I listen to so many different genres, so I also wanted to incorporate folk elements and emo elements and hyper pop elements into my music. I'm actively growing as an artist.

etc2

[edit]
  1. ↑ Sanley, Chris. "New Music Reviews (8/4)". KEXP. Archived from the original on September 27, 2025. Retrieved December 3, 2025.
  2. ↑ Ewens, Hannah (January 21, 2025). "Wisp: The new face of nü gaze". Alternative Press. Archived from the original on September 14, 2025. Retrieved April 29, 2025.
  3. ↑ Phares, Heather. "WISP Songs, Albums, Reviews, Bio & More". AllMusic. Archived from the original on April 19, 2026. Retrieved April 13, 2026.
  4. ↑ Cite error: The named reference :12 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  5. ↑ Cite error: The named reference HeroMagInt25 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
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