User:RM395/Course/Week 03

In what ways are the way you write for the web and the way you write for text similar or different? Aside from technology, what makes them different?

"Searchability" and Credibility

In order for things you have written to be read on the web, they have to be found. When you have a question or a topic you'd like to learn more about, you search key words that will hopefully bring you to a page on the web that will have relevant information. So, you may need to hit headlines and key words hard in your writing so that your page will appear in search engines. Yes, books must choose titles that draw readers in, but individual chapter titles aren't as important for simply getting people to read the book. Writing on the web is often much more simplistic as well. When you quickly want to find an answer or learn the basics of a topic, you search the web. You often have little or no knowledge of the concept if you are trying to learn about it on the Internet. However, if you wish to read a full book on a topic, you may already have basic knowledge of the topic, so the writing can be a bit more complicated. Kslinker5493 (talk) 16:18, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Interesting point here about "searchability" -- or maybe from the writer's point of view you might say that you are writing for "findability" -- so that your target audience will be able to find what you have written. In the Internet content business, we have a concept called "search engine optimization" (SEO), which includes some of the measures you mentioned -- use of keywords particularly. This is now an almost universal practice for online publishers. It can sometimes get you in trouble, though. At one publisher I worked for, the editor-in-chief kept pushing the tech guys to do more to increase the site's Google visibility. Eventually, Google took note of what they were doing and banned the site from Google listings altogether! --Brodmont (talk) 20:37, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

My basic philosophy around search-engine optimization is that if you want search engine visibility, the first thing you have to do is deserve it -- by offering high-value content. --Brodmont (talk) 20:37, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I actually used to do just that for my first internship. I was frequently asked to use some techniques to get the websites Google page rank up. For those that don't know how page rank works, check it out here. I think it is pretty interesting.--MartellRedViper (talk) 21:03, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Credibility is also an issue for writing on the web and text. In order to get text published, you must use credible sources and make sure to correctly site them. The web doesn't have those types of regulations because anyone and everyone can create a webpage. However, if you wish your page to be considered reliable and for more people to use it as a source of information, writing for the web must also have credible sources. Credibility is always an issue when it comes to published writing, whether it is on the web or in print. Kslinker5493 (talk) 16:18, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Who Is the Audience?

I write differently for the web and for text because of my consciousness of the audience. One typical case of writing for text is the class paper. Often the only likely reader is the professor, and your motivation in the writing is to demonstrate your grasp of the course material to that one person. I also write text documents in my work for a business consulting firm. In that case, the audience is a very small but high-level audience of executives in large companies. My writing is influenced by my knowledge of who will be reading the document and of what they are hoping to get out of it. These are decision makers who are looking to me to provide high-value insights that they can incorporate into company strategy. --Brodmont (talk) 01:48, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

One the other hand, when I write for the web, I write with awareness that almost anyone could read the piece I'm working on. That awareness inevitably shapes the nature of the writing. I write for one environmental web site that serves the manufacturing industry. The likely reader for this web site is a university-educated business person, so I don't necessarily target the writing at just anybody. But the audience is definitely broader than that for the class paper or the executive research report. So I have to create content and write in a style that will appeal to a much broader range of reader. --Brodmont (talk) 01:48, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

When I write something that is going to be read on the web I usually write it for a wider audience. I usually assume that the people reading it do not have any prior knowledge about what I am talking about. So I explain things more thoroughly and add more examples to illustrate points and ideas. When I write normal text it is usually for a class so I don't go into in depth explanations about things because I assume the professor who is reading it already understands the topic. I also use terminology that relates to the topic in regular text because it makes things easier and it makes it look like I know what I am talking about. --Youngpenn (talk) 20:22, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

For me, the writing all depends on the audience. When I write for academic audiences (papers) I stay as formal as I can, double and triple checking my grammar and spelling, sentence structure and other grammatical elements. However, I write completely differently for my creative writing classes. I use more expressive language, informal formats, and challenge any rules or expectations (for academic formats/ideas). I do the same thing when writing for the web. When I am writing for social media websites, I use relaxed language, and am less wary of what I post (although still am a little, considering its all searchable material). When I write emails or communicate with potential employers or write on professional websites, I am very careful about what I post, and use appropriate language and content. I still am less formal than with academic papers, but a lot more formal than my creative writing assignments. Writing for the web is different from text because you are more relaxed, at least at this point in time. I think this is a result of the ease of posting on the web, as well as the ability to constantly revise what you post. I think this mindset will change a little, as people become more aware of the internet record they leave behind, and as internet law begins to evolve. Writing for text relies on having that one perfect or finished version, that is less easy to access and revise as writing for the web is. You generally have a wider audience on the web than any text source, so I always keep that in mind. Again, I think it all depends on the audience, at least for me.--Tabbboooo (talk) 22:57, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

That's kind of an important point you made, "I think this mindset will change a little, as people become more aware of the internet record they leave behind" -- I think I do write with a consciousness that what I write today could end up being permanently findable. Last year, someone wrote to me, criticizing me for something I wrote on a web site in 1999 -- 13 years previously! --Brodmont (talk) 03:29, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I think in both text and on the web, I write according to the audience. If I'm writing a research paper or editing my work's online help documentation, I'll use a more formal tone. If I'm sending an email or hand-writing a note to a friend, I can be less formal, and I'm less worried about forgetting to punctuate the last sentence. In that sense, I think I tend to treat text and online text much the same: all according to the audience. --Katerwaul (talk) 02:25, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Brodmont -- writing for the web is different because of the audience. I can best explain the difference with Moodle. When a professor expects me to write a lengthy Moodle post, I really struggle. I do not put on my "academia hat" on the web. I put on my social hat, my entertainment hat, my silly hat, etc. I am practically programmed to adjust my writing style simply based on the screen in front of me. Is it paper? It is Wordpress? Is it Word? Is it Facebook? And I adjust my vocabulary, style, and syntax accordingly. In linguistics, there's this thing (<-- see, that's a phrase I would never use on an academic paper) called code-switching, which refers to a speaker's tendency to adjust language patterns based on the audience and situation. It's the reason your roommate's southern accent gets waaaay stronger when he's on the phone with his parents. It's often unconscious. I would propose that we are of the generation of technological code-switchers. The ability to shift rapidly between email, Facebook, Twitter, Moodle, and academia writing patterns is a form of code-switching. Luna002 (talk) 03:27, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Interesting point about code-switching, which I think is a more unconscious process (sounds as if you might have studied under the excellent Robin Dodsworth). In other words, we kind of automatically shift our manner of speaking or writing depend on the context and on who is listening or reading. Rhetorical study encourages us to make it a more conscious process; maybe that helps us to be more effective communicators by taking control of the way we express ourselves. --Brodmont (talk) 03:36, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I had no idea there was a name for that! Good point to make. I find it interesting how you translated the idea to fit internet culture! I think people realize they do this to some extent (I've been called out for the accent thing by family), but not how far the concept reaches, especially on a daily basis. This concept becomes a part of any internet user's daily life, unless they write formally/with one style 24/7, which I feel is pretty difficult. By defining the concept, and with more people becoming aware of it, I think we will learn a lot more about ourselves, the web, and internet culture in general. .--Tabbboooo (talk) 16:41, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Writing for text differs from writing for the web because of the audience. When writing for text I am usually doing so for a class with the mindset that a professor is going to look at it and it will be graded. Let's say I had to write an essay for an English class, I have a whole "to-do" list to complete before writing the final draft. I normally brainstorm, outline, rough draft, then revise for a final draft. That is drastically different than when I write for the web. For instance, right now, I'm just writing whatever comes to mind, yet I will go back over it and make sure I didn't make any mistakes. I don't want to have any mistakes because our professor is going to read it. If I post on Twitter or to Facebook, I'm pretty much a loose-cannon. I do however note that my parents, and former employers, follow me on Twitter and/or Facebook.--Thepresidenthal (talk) 14:39, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

When it comes to writing, I actually try to stay formal when I write for any audience. For example, on Facebook, Twitter or Blogs, whenever I see anyone using slang it makes me cringe. I may use different language when it come to writing in an academic setting but, honestly, the way I write on paper or online doesn't vary. --Jastout (talk) 16:30, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Mediums

My writing style changes drastically depending on which medium on I am writing for. When writing for Facebook, a web based medium, I generally am very casual, use slang frequently, almost always write something about myself, and I usually include strong opinions. I do still try and avoid grammar mistakes because everyone will not hesitate to point them out. Depending on which mediums which are counting as web I also frequently write messages to people on Skype, and when I am playing some sort of online game. I don't know if I would include these instances as writing though, I would call it more of a conversation. I also sometimes get nervous when writing things for the web. For example when I was doing the first assignment for this class and changing Wikipedia articles, I was nervous because I knew that basically anyone could see the changes that I was making. I do not feel this pressure when writing a paper for class. In general when writing for text, it is still generally electronically typed but my mindset is very different. I go back to my five paragraph mindset. Most of the time I also have to think about including quotes and sources that I need to reference. I also think a lot more on how things flow together and sentence structure. Almost none of this comes up when writing something for the web. This could be because most of the things that I write for the web are much shorter and generally don't span more than a paragraph. One other example that could be controversial for text would be taking notes. They are definitely a form of writing for text but they are very informal, usually only to be seen by the one who took them. Does anyone have any arguments for or against some of the things I brought to question? --MartellRedViper (talk) 21:03, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

My writing style and tone is also different depending on what the medium is. If I am using something such as a forum, for example, my tone would be more casual and I would not really focus on grammar and punctuation. Depending on what the forum is, (i.e. a gaming forum) the terminologies that I use and how much detail I go into discussing certain topics may be different as well. On the other hand, if I was writing something for class, then I would have to speak in a more formal tone, without contractions, proper grammar and punctuation as well as go in depth about topics. --MangoDango (talk) 22:53, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

It definitely changes based onthe restrictions (or lack thereof) placed what I'm writing for. Essay exams in school simply call for the hard facts in order to express an understanding on the topic, but argumentative exams ask you to do a bit more and format it into a compelling argument backed by evidence. Both of these writing formats are still restrictive though, and aren't exactly creative writing instances. I used to write for the school newspaper, and even they follow a very strict formula of having the facts wrapped around three quotes from the public. I personally find a subtle art in writings where I can express myself more creatively. I do see that printed and online journal publications allow room for creative expression. Of course an online encyclopedia, even a public one such as Wikipedia, would call for the straightforward and factual informative style. --Seannator (talk) 16:55, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the different mediums make a huge factor in how we write, myself included. On the web and other informal situations on the web, my word choice is whatever works at that moment to get my point across. Slang and contractions show up frequently. In a formal academic paper I would cringe if I used either of these things. They are not seen as appropriate. Also on the internet there is an emphasis on speed so there is a lot more use of informal shorthand and words with less characters to type are frequently favored.--Jeflicki (talk) 19:50, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Audience

I would have to agree with the above post and say that who I am writing to has an impact on how I write on the web versus text. However, I am really not one to comment on this question as I don't really write on the web other than a very occasional Facebook post or message.. Facebook is a social device for me, mainly a tool to keep in touch with friends my age. With that said, I definitely feel more relaxed and casual when writing on the web to friends. I will not pay as much attention to grammar and politeness. Although I am more casual when writing on the web I am still careful with what I may write, as it is open to the public. In writing for text I am definitely more aware of what I write. Class papers are the best example I can think of. Being that I am an English major, the majority of my assignments are writing papers. When writing to a professor, I am more conscious of what I say. Grammar cannot be overlooked. Proof reading will definitely occur as opposed to when I write online. Emailing would be the only other example I can think of. The vast majority of emails I send are to professors or for professional reasons, therefore I am very polite and attentive to what I write to this audience, as opposed to a friend. So pretty much what I am getting at here is that I will write differently when the audience is a friend versus a professor or professional, as these are really the only examples I have for writing on the web and in text. --Ryenocerous (talk) 23:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

That is how most everybody I know is, but I prefer to keep my style the same no matter who I am talking to. I use the same tone and grammar when I am writing an email to a professor as I do when I am messaging a friend on Facebook. It has been engraved into my mind throughout years of school to always be formal and so I got into the habit of always writing formally no matter who I am writing to. It does not bother me to have to write formally and I do not get any kind of relief from writing informally to my friends, so instead of switching between the two I find it easier to always have a professional tone.--SJRick (talk) 23:46, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Uncertain???

I'm not quite sure how to answer this because I don't really "write for the web". The only thing I do that gets to anybody online would be Facebook writings and comments, and for those I simply write informally and might not say anything that could be perceived as overly offensive. I suppose punctuation and things like that get lost in that type of writing, but as other people have said, right now I am writing this on the web for school and I'm making sure it is free of errors, grammatical or otherwise. It still feels less formal, though, than if I were writing a paper to be printed out I suppose. Beyond that, however, I don't twitter tweet or pinterest or tumblr or blog or any of that so I don't really know how I might write in those situations. But I would agree that web-writing would have to be searchable, credible, to the right audience, etc. I just don't do it :) --Tinaface86 (talk) 00:25, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I feel like I can relate to your uncertainty. The only online writing that I ever do is Facebook, and I rarely use that. I do not have twitter or blog either. I'm still al little uncertain of the difference between writing for the web and for text to be honest... I am assuming writing for the web means something written that is public and writing text is not. When I hear writing text I think of hand-writing. So I guess I am a little uncertain how to answer this question as well.--Ryenocerous (talk) 23:37, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Evidence and Readership

There are two main distinctions between print and web. The first is credibility. In print, an audience is largely expected to trust and respect journalists’ reputations, which can often lead to carelessness (as in the case of New York Times reporter Judith Miller). The Internet leaves no room for mistakes since journalists, both amateur and professional, are usually forced to provide hyperlinks to source material. The second is broadness of audience. Print outlets rely on local stories in order to distinguish themselves from others, but online outlets are accessibly by everyone and, thus, compete at national and international levels. Participatory culture can also give outlets the opportunity to pass along certain stories to special interest circles; depending on which circles maintain high levels of readership activity, these outlets can designate more (or less) attention to catering to their interests. In this way, for the first time in history, readers choose their outlets and not the other way around. --Information-01152001 (talk) 03:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

This is an interesting point of view because initially, I would look at the credibility issue backwards. I looked at it as the writers for print have to be edited many times before they can be published, so their work would be considered more credible than the writers for the web who can just post anything and everything they want. We also could be talking about different kinds of writing for web because journalists on the web would also be edited, just as writers for print would be. Other people like you and me who could put anything on the web aren't edited and those were more the people that I was thinking of. Kslinker5493 (talk) 16:33, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Formality

When writing for the web, I am drastically less formal than when writing for text. When writing for text I usually like to plan out points I'm going to cover and make at least a brief outline. I hardly ever plan out what I'm going to say or make an outline when I'm writing for the web. For example, right now I'm typing the first thing that comes to my mind, the points I'm currently making are all fresh and thought up seconds before I type them. I would never write for text in such a manner. When writing for text, I would also never reference the present in the way I just did, saying "right now i'm typing". I use a much less distant voice when writing for the web. Also, I am much more formal with my grammar when writing for text. On the web, I generally use pretty good grammar, but there are a few things that I let slide, such as ending sentences with a preposition or the occasional lowercase letter at the beginning of a sentence. The web environment, to me, seems more relaxed and a lot less formal than when I have to write for text. --Eems.p (talk) 05:12, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I completely agree with this. I always start with an outline when I'm writing for print mostly because this is typically for classes and there are specific guidelines for the papers. Writing for the web, which I have only done for fun before this class, has always been less formal. However, when I start to write for web for this class, I tend to plan out what I'm going to say. So, this formal vs. less formal debate for me seems to depend more on if I'm writing for fun or if I'm writing for a class. Kslinker5493 (talk) 16:36, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

When writing for the web, I am a little more formal as much as writing for text. In writing text I use hypotaxis sentences as well as writing for the web. In writing for the web, the audience is more broader and there for it enables more critics. Although in writing for the web you tend to be more personal, formality is still a very important entity in communicating organized events or assessments.In addition, writing for the web when it deals with formality depends on the very person and the matter in which will be regarded. If I was writing a entry about President Obama, I will be more formal verses writing a entry about my weekend. Formality is very relative but very important when conveying ideas. --Isaiahgee (talk) 16:21, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree! Formality is still extremely important, whether you're writing for text or the Web; I've seen many instances of shaming on message boards, Reddit, and the like for confusing "you're" and "your," bad punctuation, bad spelling, etc. Even if you drop a comma that you wouldn't have dropped if you were being graded for your grammar, using some degree of formality on the Web is still important for facilitating communication.--Katerwaul (talk) 04:31, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I like Isiahgee's point about topics making a difference. Some of the best writing I have ever done in my life (now that I really think about it) is on the Internet -- Facebook, for example -- because when I want to make a point, I want to represent my stance well. I want to make it clear that I am not a Republican. (Good thing no one's gonna read this.) I honestly believe some of my most intelligent writing ever was during the Amendment One debates. I allowed myself to be sucked into Facebook's usually incoherent grumblings and made clear, concise, and poignant arguments nearly every time I commented on anything. Then, I added my usual zest of sarcasm, but I've been known to do that in formal writing, too... So, in conclusion, TOPIC might be somewhat more important than MEDIUM.Luna002 (talk) 13:47, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Unbiased Viewpoint vs. Rhetoric

I don't have a facebook or a blog, so I'm going to approach this discussion question mainly focusing on writing for Wikipedia. I think that probably the largest difference for me, at least in regard to writing for Wikipedia, is that in writing for an informational database, the point is to be unbiased and present all viewpoints. I'm a Writing/Rhetoric major, so the end goal of most of my papers and essays is to present an argument from my viewpoint in a rhetorical manner. They are both similar, because citing sources and providing evidence is still required, but in my personal writing, the purpose of the research is to support an argument rather than to present unfiltered information.--Eng395jy (talk) 14:34, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

More flexibility for anonymity

Some things on the internet usually don't require you to identify yourself, Wikipedia, for example, while you could make a username based on your real name, it's not required. So people can contribute and write things but you don't exactly know who they are. While Facebook/blogs may ask you for a name, it is not necessarily required to put your real name. (I think I have even heard people who slightly modify their names on Facebook so that they would not be found easily by family members?) In comparison, when writing a paper for a class, you have to put your real name in order for the professor to identify you and give you a grade. --MangoDango (talk) 17:32, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Anonymity on the web is a huge factor. People are usually more open and honest on the web, while writing a paper, you have to be much more careful and are held responsible for what you turn in.--Jeflicki (talk) 19:54, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

That's true- I didn't even think about the anonymity factor. A lot of people I know from high school/college alter their names on Facebook because they are teachers and don't want their students finding them. They just leave out a letter or spell it differently, and then they can feel more free to write what they want.--Tinaface86 (talk) 04:20, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I did not even take into account anonymity as a factor either. Now that I think about it , it does have a huge impact on how things are written on the internet. People write more freely and express themselves more openly when they don't have to attach there name to it. They can express there feeling and opinions with out having to worry about the consequences that saying such things would have if they wrote it and shared it in a book or something that they had their name on. --152.7.29.190 (talk) 04:39, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Number of viewers

If you consider the audience of the web compared to text, that is the largest difference. For the most part, when you're writing in text, rather than the web, you're writing for an audience of one, unless you've published an article in some kind of publication. But still, it's read one at a time. When you're writing on the web, your post can be seen my a much larger number, and can be viewed online for a longer period of time. When comparing the two different styles of writing, they can be much different depending on who's writing. Personally, I try to stay as formal as possible when it come to any type of writing. Whether its writing on Facebook, Twitter, blogs or anything else on the web, I try to the same style as I would for a academic paper. However, there are some exceptions. This isn't always the case, as you'll see with most people on social media websites. The slang and misspelling of words is out of control, that's why I try to stay as formal as possible.--Jastout (talk) 11:51, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

You have a good point about the difference in number of viewers for web text versus other text. What you wrote about writing for text being published made me realize just how blurry the line between writing for web and writing for text is. One would say that writing for The New York Times is definitely writing for text whereas writing a general online blog is writing for web. So what about all the NYTimes blogs? Also, speaking of number of views, writing online can easily be searched which probably raises the number of views drastically. People who are just mindlessly searching the web will stumble across writings that they weren't even intending to find in the first place. --Eems.p (talk) 00:53, 28 January 2013 (UTC)