User talk:Bensaccount/Archive 0

Latest comment: 12 years ago by Funkamatic in topic Excellent translation gif


gpcr figure

Hi- the graphic is really amazing. i wonder if you have it in a mol file or a site whre it can dbe downloaded in that kind of extenssion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.210.73.11 (talk) 20:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi - I liked your GPCR figures, especially the mechanism one. Could you provide a little detail on how you constructed these? Thanks --smd 23:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

       Thanks, I used DeepView and POV-Ray. Do you want an in depth tutorial? Bensaccount 02:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
           If you have time, I would really appreciate it. I'm sure others would appreciate it as well. --smd 03:19, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Just paying my respects for that awesome GPCR_mechanism.png! Miserlou (talk) 19:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

GPCR model

Hi! I found your GPCRs models and they're great! Since they're of public domain I took one of them and included it in my thesis. I referenced the image with your nickname, but I would like in the fisrt place to thank you for the figure, and if you want, to put your real name on the reference.

Thank you,

Glad you liked it. I think it would be cool to have my name (Benjamin Small) on your thesis. Bensaccount 01:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Molecular model tutorial

Heres a tutorial on how I make molecular models. If you copy it please give me some credit; it took some work to get it to look right, and I don't get any money for it. Enjoy:


  1. Open the PDBs in DeepView and arrange.
  2. Export as POV scene.
  3. Copy and paste the following code:
//This code sets the camera:

camera { 
location < 0, 0, 20 >
look_at < 0, 0, 0 >
}

#declare cam_pos = <0, 0, 20>;


//This codes for the outline:
#declare dist = 1.03; 
#declare thick1 = 0.05; 
#declare linetex  = texture {pigment {rgb 0} finish {ambient 1}}

#declare trans = transform {rotate 90*clock*y}


#macro scalepoint(center,amt) 
	transform {trans}
	translate -center scale amt translate center
#end


#macro atom(center,rad,thick)
	union {
		sphere {center,rad transform {trans}}
		sphere {center,(rad+thick1) texture {linetex} scalepoint(cam_pos,dist)}  
	        }
#end 


//The following does the color and shading:
#declare ATM_FINISH = finish {ambient rgb <1,1,1> }


#declare textgrey = texture {pigment {slope {vnormalize(<1000,1000,1000>)}
   color_map{[0.625 color rgb <.45,.45,.45>][0.626 color rgb <.5,.5,.5>]}}
   finish {ATM_FINISH}
   }

background { color rgb < 10,10,10 > }



//The fog gives the sense of distance that is lacking from most other molecular models:
fog {
  fog_type   2
  distance   4
  color      rgbt <0,0,0,.1>
  fog_offset 1
  fog_alt    .0001
  up <0,0,1>
}


//Here is where you put the objects:
object {atom(<0,0,0> .4, thick1)
texture {textgrey}
}

4. Search and replace

sphere {

with

object{atom(

5. Search and replace

_ }

with

_ , thick1)}

6. Search and replace

pigment{ colour red 0.75 green 0.75 blue 0.75} finish{ ATM_FINISH }

with

textgrey


Awesome, thanks again. I'd pretty much worked out a similar strategy, but yours is a little more succinct. --smd 05:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
BTW, Jmol can be modified to export pre-coded POV-Ray files like this. Bensaccount 20:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Gold fingerprinting

 

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Gold fingerprinting, by Physchim62 (talk · contribs), another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Gold fingerprinting fits the criteria for speedy deletion for the following reason:

dicdef


To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Gold fingerprinting, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 00:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Image:Thiophene.PNG listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Thiophene.PNG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Calliopejen1 16:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Image needed

The Rutherford model wiki needs an image exactly like your Hydrogen_atom.svg‎ except with the atom diameter labeled as about 10^-10 m and the nuclear diameter labeled as < 3.4 x 10^-14 meters (which is what Rutherfored measured it at, though it is actually only 1/5th of this). The image is important because in this model the nucleus has no structure, just as in your hydrogen image. The image used in the aticle now is less than satisfactory, because it shows nuclea substructures not known, or even imagined, in 1911. SBHarris 01:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Caffeine is the most widely used psychoactive substance in the world...?

Hi! You inserted that picture with the cited claim into Drugs. Already in September the tag "citation needed" was added. But nobody seems to be able. Can you prove this claim? Because I suppose that much more cigarettes are smoked than cups of coffee are drunk in the world. But maybe you know better? Best regards, --85.131.68.14 (talk) 17:08, 9 December 2007 (UTC) (User:Plenz)

Image:Monte carlo method.png

Hello,

Your image Image:Monte carlo method.png was discussed on Talk:Monte Carlo method a couple of months ago. The question of what it actually means was raised, and has not really been answered. I came across the image today and couldn't make any sense of it either. I would be glad if you would take a look at the discussion and answer or edit an explanation into the article as appropriate. Thanks, EldKatt (Talk) 15:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I just added a caption. Bensaccount (talk) 16:31, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Creationism2

Template:Creationism2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Neelix (talk) 20:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


Survey request

Hi,
I need your help. I am working on a research project at Boston College, studying creation of medical information on Wikipedia. You are being contacted, because you have been identified as an important contributor to one or more articles.

Would you will be willing to answer a few questions about your experience? We've done considerable background research, but we would also like to gather the insight of the actual editors. Details about the project can be found at the user page of the project leader, geraldckane. Survey questions can be found at geraldckane/medsurvey. Your privacy and confidentiality will be strictly protected!

The questions should only take a few minutes. I hope you will be willing to complete the survey, as we do value your insight. Please do not hesitate to contact me or Professor Kane if you have any questions.

Thank You, BCeagle0312 (talk) 15:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:G protein1.png

File:G protein1.png is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:G protein1.png. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[File:G protein1.png]]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:35, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

File:G-protein-coupled receptor.png is now available as Commons:File:G-protein-coupled receptor.png. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
File:X-ray crystallography.svg is now available as Commons:File:X-ray crystallography.svg. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 20:08, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Greetings from the MCB WikiProject!

 

Hello, Bensaccount, welcome to the Molecular and Cellular Biology WikiProject!

I noticed you recently added yourself to our Participants' list, and I wanted to welcome you to our project. Here are some ideas on how you can help::

Read our Manual of Style, guide to citing sources and try this citation tool

Join in editing our collaboration of the month

Have a look at some related projects and resources

Improve articles on our worklist


If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, don't hesitate to post on the project talk page, or please drop me a note on my talk page.

Again, welcome!

Tim Vickers (talk) 19:33, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

 

Wow

File:Translation.gif is absolutely superb! Tim Vickers (talk) 01:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I am glad u like it. Bensaccount (talk) 14:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Holy crap! I watched this like 5 times through in complete awe. You, sir, deserve much respect. I am training to become a High School biology teacher in the states, and I look forward to using your work to educate future students.--FUNKAMATIC ~talk 05:48, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 
File Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading File:Western blotting 3.svg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 16:57, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 
File Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading File:Western blotting 4.svg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 16:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

File:Western blotting 3.svg missing description details

Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as File:Western blotting 3.svg is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors to make better use of the image, and it will be more informative for readers.

If the information is not provided, the image may eventually be proposed for deletion, a situation which is not desirable, and which can easily be avoided.

If you have any questions please see Help:Image page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:33, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

File:Western blotting 4.svg missing description details

Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as File:Western blotting 4.svg is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors to make better use of the image, and it will be more informative for readers.

If the information is not provided, the image may eventually be proposed for deletion, a situation which is not desirable, and which can easily be avoided.

If you have any questions please see Help:Image page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:43, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

wp:citation needed

I'm a bit confused by your edit summary, "(Lets keep this one about the template (we really don't need any more of these pages))".

Since is the target page from the [citation needed] that's inserted in articles, it's important that this explains to new users what to do in as few words as possible.

The problem with simply "triaging" people to other policies, without also giving an explanation of what to do on this page, is that historically, people have not read those policies -- because, frankly, most policies are very poorly written.

What exactly did you mean by your edit summary? Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 00:53, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and thanks for supporting my proposal at WT:NPOV!! Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 00:54, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Recruiting people to a project dedicated to making things less bureaucratic? Did you notice the irony in that? Anyways don't take this to my talk page. Use the discussion pages. That is what they are for. Bensaccount (talk) 01:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Jesus christ. 1) you didn't answer my question 2) you ignored the fact that I thanked you for something, and that I invited you to work with me at a wikiproject (I saw the links on your User page and thought we had interests in common) 3) you're being hostile. You don't have to be nice to strangers, but I will ask you to show a little WP:Etiquette. My god. Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 04:10, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
1. The answer is on the appropriate discussion page, 2. You can't force people to join a wikiproject. 3. Calling me hostile for not saying "your welcome" when you thanked me makes me wonder if you deserve whatever you are thanking me for.  :). Bensaccount (talk) 05:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


Well, you signed your post with a smiley face, so I can't be mad anymore. Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 05:20, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Policy

I've created Wikipedia pages also, but one person's writing, however accurate, does not make something a policy. You have to get community input, you have to show that there is the need for the policy, you have to propose it, and you have to get community consensus. What you have written is a very good essay that explains a facet of our NPOV policy. Labeling it as an essay is not a bad thing. What the tag does is show that it is the work of a small number of people, in this case, one person. -- SamuelWantman 04:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

How do you think NPOV came about? Bensaccount (talk) 04:34, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

It is a founding policy. Have you read Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines? If you are proposing a new policy, than label it as a proposal and publicize it broadly. I would say that your essay is already covered by existing policy and is an essay that does a very good job of explaining one aspect of that policy. I am not saying that it is wrong, and I am not saying that it should or shouldn't be elevated to become a policy. But if you want to elevate it to policy, you need to generate community support and show the need for a new policy. Wikipedia pages are community process pages, proposals, policies, guidelines or essays. If they are not tagged as one of these, they are likely to be deleted. The work of a single editor is either a proposal or an essay. It is your choice which you'd like it to be. -- SamuelWantman 05:02, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I will do what I like with it, but right now it is what it is. If slapping tags on things makes you feel important, go ahead. Calling it an essay, (even though it isn't) will make it look less official, so people will feel that much less need to heed it. Bensaccount (talk) 05:12, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

If you think it should be official, perhaps you should try adding some of the clarifications you have made to WP:NPOV, or alternatively, suggest that your page be made a subpage of that policy. That policy's talk page would be the best forum to start the discussion. -- SamuelWantman 07:16, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
If you think it shouldn't be official, you should say so. And say why. Otherwise you are just promoting bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy. Bensaccount (talk) 17:05, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I think the point that you explain already IS official because it is part of WP:NPOV, and I don't think there needs to be a policy page explaining the subtleties of every aspect of every guideline or rule. If it is controversial, or not widely applied, you should start a discussion that attempts to reach community consensus. You can't have it both ways. If it is uncontroversial then a separate policy page is not needed. If it is controversial, then you need to start discussions. My concern is not with the sake of maintining bureaucracy, it is the opposite. I do not want to add more policies if they are not needed. -- SamuelWantman 18:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
It is widely applied, and it is related to NPOV but it is not part of NPOV (what part were you thinking of?). If it is controversial, the controversy is with those who misuse NPOV (for whom every conflict results in adding opinions). The purpose of the page is to limit the precedence of opinions over facts that results from sloppy NPOV misuse. By ensuring the page looks unofficial you help prevent this from happening. Bensaccount (talk) 19:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I am not the appropriate audience for your argument. You don't have to convince me to agree with what you have written, I already agree. But, if you want to call this a policy instead of an essay, then start the discussion on the talk page of NPOV and at the village pump and change the tag to {{proposal}}. I know of no policy that was the result of one person's work. Start the discussion. I'll support your effort. -- SamuelWantman 23:26, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the support. If you feel like following such a process go ahead. Right now what bothers me is the tag you added. I infer that you feel like some proper procedure would be violated if the tag was not in place. Since you want to play Wikilawyering perhaps you could direct me to this procedure. Bensaccount (talk) 03:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Virtually all Wikipedia pages are tagged with something. I don't think I am alone in thinking that if a page is untagged then it is probably newly created, obscure, and/or irrelevant. So having a tag on it indicates that the author is aware of how policy and guidelines evolve. To my eyes, and I think many others, having it tagged will make it look more legitimate, not less. It also makes everything more transparent. My first question when I say your page was "what is this?". It was clear to me from looking at the history and the discussion page that it was an essay. I tagged it as such to make it more transparent to the next reader. The life cycle of a policy is discussed here. -- SamuelWantman 09:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Maybe you should have read it instead, It usually helps if you are trying to find out what something is. Point me to the policy that says every page must be tagged. Bensaccount (talk) 16:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if there is anything that explicitly says you must add a tag, but that is the customary practice. Tagging puts the Wikipedia pages into categories and make their classification transparent to the user. There is language that says that all Wikipedia-space pages are either community process pages, proposals, policies, guidelines or essays, and there are tags for all of these types. I don't recall seeing any Wikipedia-space page that does not have a tag at the top, at least not for long. -- SamuelWantman 01:06, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Try this logic on bigger fish first. Go tag the village pump. Bensaccount (talk) 04:06, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 
File Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading File:SDS-PAGE sample.png. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. ww2censor (talk) 02:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Grey column

 

The article Grey column has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

External link does not work, and no other references provided ("grey matter" as a search parameter refers only to the brain) to validate subject.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. LessHeard vanU (talk) 19:59, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Proposed Merge of Diffusion equilibrium

Hello! I just wanted to let you know that I've suggested that an article you created, Diffusion equilibrium, be merged with Molecular diffusion. There is currently a section in the Molecular Diffusion article on non-equilibrium systems, so I think that the material currently in the Diffusion equilibrium article could probably fit in the Molecular Diffusion article. Let me know what you think. Shanata (talk) 21:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mediation (biology)

 

The article Mediation (biology) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

I see no evidence "mediation" has any special meaning in biology distinct from its regular English meaning. I've the Wikipedia articles that link here, I've entered "define:mediation" in Google, and I've checked the indices of two prominent biology textbooks.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Adrian J. Hunter(talkcontribs) 03:37, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Cats

Hello. You have listed yourself as a member of WikiProject Cats. I would appreciate your help in creating Canadian Cat Association, which is a request on the to-do list. Thank you, Brambleclawx 00:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I think I started that project. Bensaccount (talk) 01:26, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Whatever. I think its actually User:GeorgeMoney who started it (he made the wikiproject page), but thats besides the point. Will you help? Brambleclawx 02:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
You think wrong. It was originally Wikipedia:WikiProject Cat breeds. It got renamed/moved. Bensaccount (talk) 22:53, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Well, alrighty. I don't have that much time to do research on the histories of Wikiprojects. Brambleclawx 21:48, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


File source problem with File:Western blotting 4.svg

 

Thanks for uploading File:Western blotting 4.svg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

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File source problem with File:Western blotting 3.svg

 

Thanks for uploading File:Western blotting 3.svg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of that website's terms of use of its content. However, if the copyright holder is a party unaffiliated from the website's publisher, that copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider verifying that you have specified sources for those files as well. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged per Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion, F4. If the image is copyrighted and non-free, the image will be deleted 48 hours after 00:55, 2 January 2010 (UTC) per speedy deletion criterion F7. If you have any questions or are in need of assistance please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 00:55, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of List of terms using the words "latent" or "latency"

I have nominated List of terms using the words "latent" or "latency", an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of terms using the words "latent" or "latency". Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:06, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

SDS-PAGE Electrophoresis picture

Hi. I would like to use your SDS-PAGE Electrophoresis pic in my master thesis. How should I quote you as a reference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.186.73.76 (talk) 04:44, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

How did you make the artwork /pictures?

Could you kindly let me know what program you used to make those schematics/graphics for the article "Western Blot"? best regardsSlicky (talk) 07:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

personal development

Hi. I just noticed this comment at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Newcomb%27s_paradox and wondered if you're still that sort of person.

This page embodies the extremely stupid philosophies held by professors everywhere. Bensaccount 22:27, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.108.225.155 (talk)

Proposed deletion of Attribute (network management)

 

The article Attribute (network management) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Unreferenced and not obviously notable dictionary definition of a specific use of a term used generically in computing

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Pnm (talk) 07:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Master thesis

As another user asked before, can I use your SDS-PAGE (electrophoresis) picture in my thesis? How do I refer to you (for my other figures I have "courtesy of: xx"). 81.233.237.88 (talk) 10:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes of course. -- Benjamin Small, B.Sc. Bensaccount (talk) 22:08, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Excellent translation gif

I just ran across the translation gif (via Endoplasmic reticulum). Very nice. I've seen video animations, but this is better as one can study it. (I didn't before know about the "pusher" protein. Neat!) Thanks for constructing and contributing this gem. -R. S. Shaw (talk) 04:29, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I just stated this above to agree with someone else, but it's so good I thought I do it again. This is awesome work.--FUNKAMATIC ~talk 06:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)