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WikiProject Films June 2009 Newsletter

The June 2009 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 08:23, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

so what do you know, really?

If one is born on a US base in another country, where are you really born? I believe that US bases, like embassies are technically US property, but if I was born on a base in Germany, would my bio read that I was born in Germany? I'm inclined to think so. What do you think? Law _{type! snype?} 07:09, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmmm ... really cool question. I know the issue came up during the 2008 Presidential election in regards to McCain. And I remember taking in an immigrant couple from Germany years ago - He couldn't speak much English, but she could a good bit. They stayed with me for about 3 months until their visas ran out - I tried so hard to get them papers cause they wanted to stay ... but, there I go again, drifting off into one of those "Well, ... I remember when..." posts. ... lol. I guess I'd say the BLP should read "US Citizen Born in Germany", but I think in respect to BLP issues - that you should be consulted to see what your preferences would be. As long as it was verifiable, I'd have to say; defer to the subjects wishes, full protect the page - and block the first S.O.B. that tried to change it ... LOL. hey buddy, how you doin? — Ched :  ?  07:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Haha. That was very informative. In fact, you may have a career in politics with that type of answer. You have a chat talk IM thingie? Law _{type! snype?} 07:37, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, well, sorta ... I use Trillian so I can do Yahoo, MSN, AOL, and ICQ all at the same window. Haven't had it open for a while, but pretty much cheddavis@"anything". Rjd0060 helped me get the IRC thingie set up tonight - so I can ask questions .. and I tend to do that a LOT ... lol. I'll drop you an email tomorrow .. well actually later today .. with the specifics. Need to get a couple hours sleep here shortly, but do want to drop off a thanks to Rjd before I grab a few Zs. Just curious though ... you living in US or in Germany? I won't be offended if you'd rather not say, I'm just the curious type. — Ched :  ?  07:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Figure 8 racing

I went to some figure 8 races last night, and I tried to get a picture of the action for the article. It was very dark and I had to use slow speed to get anything. This DSLR camera did WAY better! I posted the best 2 shots on my flickr account 1, 2. Would either of these be helpful in the article, or are they too blurry? Should I crop them down (but then I'll lose perspective)? Please respond here on your talk page to keep the conversation together. Please respond here on your talk page. I'm leaving for camping for the long weekend very soon, so I'll look at your response in a few days. Royalbroil 13:39, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey there RB - Only have a few min. at the moment, but I did look. I'd say naa to the second one, but a strong YES to the first. Me personally, I might crop just a bit, maybe the fans heads out of the bottom, and very little along the sides. I agree with you that you want to keep the perspective. Have a great camping trip, and I know a reply to one message you sent is long overdue, I'll try to get that done this weekend. Without a doubt, I think the first pic would add value to the figure-8 article - Good Work! Talk to you soon, Ched. — Ched :  ?  16:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Just a note

Hi Ched. While doing my various rounds at Wikipedia over the last few days, I've noticed some of the incredibly kind and encouraging words you've said to people, and I just wanted to say how much they are appreciated. We are lucky to have you here. So, anyway, that's all I wanted to say. ;) I hope your adminship is going well. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 13:48, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Ahhh....wow. I'm not sure what to say Peter. Thank you! That has to be one of the nicest and kindest compliments I've ever gotten. To be honest, you are, yourself, going to have to take some credit here if I'm doing things in a positive light. I only have to look to the very first posts to my talk page edits to see that when I posted a {{helpme}} tag - you were one of first (if not the first) people to respond with friendly and helpful advice and encouragement. I've tried to follow your lead in how to be helpful and encouraging people. (That's a collective "you" which would include folks like Huntster, Pedro, Protonk, Royalbroil, Magio, Lara, Steve, Law, TnXman, and so many others). I've been very fortunate that my early experiences here have encouraged me to return to online communications. Perhaps it's the nature of "building a free on-line encyclopedia", but I feel so blessed to have met so many great folks here. I had become cynical of much of the "chatroom, forum, USENET, message-board" communities due to the seemingly inevitable degradation into flame-war, baiting, uncivil harassment that they often fell into. Soooo Peter, if I'm in any way doing good things, then much of the credit and "Thanks" have to go to you and our peers as well - I'm honestly humbled, and perhaps even a bit embarrassed here, but I am vastly grateful for your kind and encouraging words. ;). (PS: I would have responded yesterday, but I tend to stay away from any editing when I've been celebrating ... lol). — Ched :  ?  14:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

AfD closings

What do you make of this close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of terms for gay in different languages? And going to the closer's taklpage I also saw a discussion regarding this one [[1]] where the article creator wasn't notified (and it looks like it would have been a reasonable merge to me perhaps based on the discussion, although I haven't seen the article). Perhaps I should take them to DRV? I'm not fond of that type of contentious process. Let me know what you think. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh and if you don't mind, would you move this deleted article Exploding chicken to my usersapce? I think it might be good in a broader article on special effects or something... (I asked the closer, but didn't get a response. I don't think there would be any objection to my having it in userspace). ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:17, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I restored the most recent version (sans the AfD notice) of the page. Let me know if we need to restore all versions to preserve history. If so, I will do that tonight. If you need more info you might try WP:REFUND to see if anyone still hangs out there. This is a page that seems to have more history than other "deleted pages" I've had a chance to look at so far, so it's very possible that I should have restored "all" the versions - I'll check into that part of it, now that I'm thinking about it a bit more.

I just looked briefly at the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of terms for gay in different languages and on initial glance it does appear to be a candidate for WP:DRV. I'm not familiar with User:Angr, but perhaps if you dropped him/her a note at User talk:Angr they might be able to give an explanation of their reasoning. Note: I only skimmed the AfD, and consensus is not decided solely on the number of votes, but also on the reasoning behind the votes as well - so there could very easily be something I'm missing on "gay terms in different languages" article. I assume that it was not an "attack" page?

Anyway, it's looking like another long day of "Ched you need to come fix my computer NOW!" day, but I'll follow up on this when I have the time (this evening I hope).

Side note: I found a great link on the "Sexuality and food" thing - I thought it was great, but not really anything in the link that would help build the article - just an enjoyable viewing: this link (well, depending on your point of view on the whole subject I guess). Thought you might get a kick out of it - too bad the pics aren't free-use huh? ... lol.

• One note that's entirely WP:OR: A warm bowl of water and a wash cloth can come in handy after the fact when indulging in the whipped cream/chocolate sauce areas. When accompanied with a warm towel straight from the dryer, it can be much appreciated in removing the sticky aftermath. (some may consider me to be an old man now - but I wasn't always!) :-) — Ched :  ?  14:42, 6 July 2009 (UTC) (cc: to user talk)

Thank you for your help good sir. Indeed, I think it best to preserve the history per GFDL and such. Not sure if or when I'll get around to saving the exploding chicken, but it seems important to me. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

• Note I did in fact go back and restore all the associated history of the article that was userfied after clarification on the talk page at WP:REFUND.
• Note 2 I've asked Angr for some input regarding the AfD close of List of terms for gay in different languages - also, I note that the page is up for transport to Wiktionary, but a "bot" was unable to perform that function. I also note that the article AfD was actually the second request for deletion. I'll try to follow up on this as time permits, and we'll see if we can get things to where it's acceptable to most if not all. — Ched :  ?  02:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I may have a couple more articles for you to userfy in the next few days. :) Do you mind doing that stuff? I want to make sure you get good at it! I was wondering about your post on the Bureaucrat board. I didn't really understand the need for the heads up. Isn't it more of an Arb issue? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:15, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't mind at all. I'm always glad to help, and anytime I can be a part of salvaging information and building our content, it makes me feel good. I might not be a "pure inclusionist" as I prefer that "case by case" solution - but I am certainly not a delitionist either. You may want to post at the bottom of the page for any new ones, just so I don't miss them - and if I'm busy and don't get to it in a timely manner - folks at WP:REFUND are really on the ball as well.

Yes, you're right - it likely will need to go to ArbCom to resolve. I tend to see the 'crats as admins with exceptional clue, but there isn't anything "official" they can do. I was more hoping that one of them would have a good idea on how to resolve matters in a "unofficial" capacity. Once it gets into arbcom, it tends to become drawn out, official, and loses much of the community personality. I also think that the items in those threads will need to be broken down into several individual items. — Ched :  ?  03:05, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I appreciate your response and thoughts. Stay out of trouble. I agree the closer of an AfD had to be consulted first, although they almost never want to help which is unfortunate. I don't really like confrontation and people tend to be jumpy and defensive. Your involvement was helpful. Cheerios. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:07, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Gay terms

CoM reminds me of guys I knew in Jr. High who would put their noses in the air and say, "Well, I'm not talking to him!" Or maybe that was teenage girls that I'm thinking of. Be that as it may, since he deleted this probably before you could read it, here it is again, for your grand edification:

I was going to be a smarty and say that in British English "gay" = "citizen", and then I noticed the definitions and began to think "blind dictionary definition". "Gay" in this sense derives more from "flamboyant", or "showing off", as referenced in the Cohan song, "Mary Is a Grand Old Name", in which she says her mother, "...wasn't gay or airy / But plain as she could be..." [2] I think that's your true origin of that term. Not that song, but the way it's used in that song. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

And noticing the terms "queer" and "fag", I was reminded of something George Carlin once said, to the effect that a fag was not a homosexual, but merely someone who was unmanly; or the way he put it was, "A fag is someone who wouldn't go downtown and help beat up queers!" Which also points out that in his day, "queer" was hardly "neutral" as the list claims it to be. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

In summary, while that list is possibly educational, it seems to have a lot of original (or at least uncited) research in it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:26, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

He also deleted my very reasonable comment about lutefisk. I should have mentioned to him that I always travel to the Minnesota State Fair, where you can get lutefisk on a stick and stuff like that there. If he goes there too, maybe I'll get a chance to meet him up close and poysanal. I'll be waiting by the hog exhibits. I'll wear a Twins cap so he'll know me. d:) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:45, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey Bugs, how ya doin? Hmmm ... I had rather the opposite impression of CoM, meaning that he appeared to me to be one of those folks that would stick up for another person no matter what. But, I do realize that you two haven't always seen eye-to-eye, so no use going on about it either. As far as the article goes, I'm probably not the best judge on that - I admit to being very clueless on many items like that. Even though I can be in downtown Pgh in half an hour (depending on traffic), I grew up in a very ... ahhh ... isolated neighborhood and school system that was not particularly diverse. Over the years I've certainly met a lot of folks and always enjoyed hearing all different points of view - be it on religion, heritage, politics, or sexual preferences; and I always try to have respect for anyone regardless of their opinions, choices, or inherent makeup - so long as they aren't so overly arrogant that they've got their noses stuck so far in the air that they can't even see the other side of the street anyway. I just haven't had that much experience with a lot of the LGBT areas. There are a couple folks here that are familiar with those areas, If it's important, I could post something on the project page and ask them to take a look?

I absolutely loved Carlins humor, he had a way of pointing out things that should have been obvious, but somehow folks had come to ignore in everyday life.

I'm not familiar with lutefisk, but if I get the chance to make a road-trip up to meet a WP buddy in Wisconsin this fall, I'll definitely try to find some. Funny thing, I'll bet if we all met up at a bar or cookout, you'd likely get along just fine (perhaps maybe just avoiding politics anyway ... lol). Hey, who knows, maybe someday you two will find yourselves on the same side of a debate, and maybe you'll find a way to co-exist without the friction. Saying you could become "best buds" might be a bit overly-optimistic, but ... stranger things have happened. Who knows, maybe someday I'll even agree with (wait - preview button, remove any names ... then save) someone that may seem unlikely at the moment. :D — Ched :  ?  00:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC) (no, there wasn't actually any one person I had in mind, it was just my sad attempt at humor)

I thought maybe a non-controversial edit or two would help break the ice, but he's decided he doesn't want to lower himself to talking to me, so dat's dat. I'm fairly much neutral on the "gay issue", in that I'm neither an enemy nor an advocate. And like you, I'm always interested in what someone has to say about religion and politics and stuff - as long as they don't cop the attitude that they're right and I'm wrong and dat's dat. I never heard that term "gay" until sometime in the early 70s, and always being curious about words, I wondered where it came from. In my younger days, that was an unmentionable topic, at least in my neighborhood. Later I found that there have been plenty of pop-culture references, just rather subtle, such that if you didn't get it, you didn't need to. Getting older and more exposed to the existence of various lifestyles, it kind of jumps out at you when you see it. I still get a laugh from Cary Grant, having dressed in his girlfriend's clothes due to his suit being wet or something, probably in His Girl Friday - she comes in, finds him dressed up in her stuff, and says, "What happened here?" And he says sarcastically, "I went gay all of a sudden!" That was the 1930s - but did it truly mean homosexual, or just "dressed up"? Hard telling. By the way, that pig joke I told you is from vaudeville, and is verifiably at least 100 years old. As far as lutefisk, to my mind the thing that's a negative is not that it's gelatinous fish and that it tastes fishy, but that it tends to be salty. But fish is fish. Anyway, this is turning into a shaggy dog story. My main point from the beginning was that that list is not only plagued with OR, it's sometimes inaccurate OR, which I think you'll agree is the worst kind. :) As you suggest, maybe someone who leans that way, and I think you know who they are, could address that question, as they have probably studied the matter a lot more than I have. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I've noticed several times that you've made the effort to find a path to communicating. I know that CoM has often had to endure some harsh and uncalled for comments, and in fact, the recent WMC block I found to be totally without merit. Perhaps it's just the timing Bugs. I know there are a lot of times that I get into a defensive mode, and fail to realize that someone is simply trying to "lighten the tension", and I've snapped at a person that I had no reason to. I know that CoM does a lot of fine work here, and has added value to our community in ways that are often un-quantifiable. I think in time it will all work out, I don't see any "give up and quit" in CoM, so I think as others come to appreciate his style - the tensions will wane. Hey, .. you both agree with the deletion of the article - "light at the end of the tunnel" perhaps? Everything I've ever seen of CoM indicates to me that he is a very kind, understanding, and friendly person. I think that time will heal many wounds, and I think it's entirely possible that you'll be a welcomed supporter on some things in the future.

The first time I really came to realize much about the term "gay" was the summer after high-school graduation. Sadly, it was when one of the young men that I graduated with had hung himself. Always very quiet and reserved, but an extremely nice guy. Of course that was back in the mid-70's, so many areas such as the one that I grew up in didn't have an air of openness and acceptance in very many things. In that respect anyway, I think humanity has evolved and progressed in positive directions. I think it's always better to talk and listen than to make judgments without hearing the other sides to the stories. Over the years I've given up a fair number of "friendships" because I refused to take the "status quo" or "majority" point of view, and often ended up siding with the underdog or minority viewpoint simply because I felt it was the "right thing to do". I can't say that I ever felt I "lost" anything with that approach, as my true friends still respected my POV even if they didn't agree.

Yea, I always loved Cary Grant (and the Fred McMurry / Disney films). I can picture the scene you're describing, but I'm not positive either on which flick it was. Getting back to the article, yeppers - I agree with you 100%, that un-sourced, inaccurate, OR should be removed without hesitation. I'll work something up and post over at the LGBT project and try to get some feedback. — Ched :  ?  02:11, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, maybe someday I'll remove a thorn from his paw or something. One thing I've noticed, though, is that even editors who don't get along very well kind of "watch out" for each other sometimes - like if some yahoo turns up and starts vandalizing their page or something. We'll just let time pass and see how things work out. Oh, and just to show how good my memory is, the scene I was talking about was from Bringing Up Baby. [3] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:04, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL ... for some reason I was thinking "Operation Petticoat", now I'm gonna have to start going through some old movies. ;) — Ched :  ?  04:36, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

It's worth mentioning that between my comments and another editor's diligent work, the "gay synonyms" article has been whittled down to almost nothing. In which case, it should probably be deleted, but I'll leave that up to the deletionists. 0:) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 00:27, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I just looked, and I agree. I tend to be on the opposite end of the "deletionist" mindset as well, but I do think this is one that needs to go. I think there is enough in WP:NOT to back that up as well. I mentioned it to Angr first, just because I think that's the right thing to do. I didn't want it to look like an end-run around the closer. — Ched :  ?  03:09, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I see it now be gone. I did not vote on it. I hardly ever participate in deletion discussions. But it is gone to the bit bucket now. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:17, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

opposing views and such

I appreciate your kind words. Like you, there are some editors that I know are political opposites from what I think I am, and we get along fine. Others, we don't. I think the secret is not taking it too seriously. That's where some of those others and I part ways. They say they don't like my sense of humor. In particular, I think, they don't like having sacred cows punctured. To me, there are very few sacred cows. Someone told me the other day he thought I was conservative. I countered, "No, I'm old-fashioned." The two are not the same. Maybe you don't know this, but I wave the American flag on my user page, which is a political statement, and those things are frowned upon. However, it's buried in one of the sections you have to open, rather than screaming at the casual visitor. I call myself a liberal American patriot, which sounds like a contradiction. But what it means is that I try to keep an open mind about things, and I celebrate the good fortune of having been born and raised in the USA. To those who might wonder how I could defend the Palin and Obama articles with equal fervor, it's easy: I try to keep the reader in mind; and I don't take either of them seriously enough to become a zealot about them. I've seen many politicians come and go. They all have their pluses and minuses. I couldn't stand Dubya as President, but I didn't personally hate him either, as some left-wing zealots did. I always say about the Prez, "He's not God, he's not the King - he's just a guy, and if we don't like the job he's doing, we can vote him out." That rule applies to Obama as well as Bush. So there's another shaggy dog story, and why I don't have a problem with political opposites who will talk. In real life, I'm thinking about one of my best pals, who is as right wing as they come, and who I ideologically oppose on many issues - and who shares my style of humor (just directed at different politicos), my love of country, and who has what I call a "true Christian" nature, who would give you the shirt off his back if necessary. The best kind of friend you can have. So there's always hope, and we'll just see how things go here as time passes. OK, that was today's sermon. You may now turn to page 191 in your hymnal, as we sing a hymn written by God Himself, and titled, "Joyful, Joyful, Ye Adore Me." Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Well Bugs, I think that is the ultimate goal (or should be), is when you can not tell from someones article edits what point of view they personally have. It was my primary reasoning for supporting your RfA back when. I can relate to the "old-fashioned" moniker, one which I've been labeled with as well. The thing with labels such as: "liberal", "conservative", Democrat, Republican, is that there are SOOO many different issues that get wrapped up into neat little sound-bites, and one size doesn't always fit all. Not sure why, but somewhere along the line I guess I started viewing you as sort of the "older brother I never had" (would that make me about 7 1/2? ... lol - I was the oldest of 3 in my family). I consider myself patriotic in the sense of the original founders vision for our country, but can have some liberal views on individual topics at the same time. The only thing I've ever wondered about is the way we went about gaining our independence. I think it's possible we lost some of that "air of dignity and integrity" that many of the British maintain to this day. I can understand the perception of "American arrogance", and have indeed been guilty of it my self on occasion. It comes in handy when seeking innovation and defending our "rights" - but I can understand where it can "off-putting" to others outside our culture too. I too have strong Christian beliefs, but don't try to impose them on others - I figure it's up to each of us to determine our place individually. Well Brother Bugs, I shall raise my voice to the highest (pitiful as it may be - I can't carry a tune in a bucket) to your hymn - but may substitute "Respect" for "Adore" ... lol. — Ched :  ?  15:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

There's a Star Trek in which Kirk and Bones help an alien woman deliver a child. Spock says to them something like, "The two of you are going to be insufferably pleased with yourselves for at least the next two weeks!" Sometimes I think that describes the USA. We managed to throw off the British shackle in the Revolution, and then the ill-advised War of 1812 ended with a surprise rout of the British at New Orleans, and we've never looked back. Well, almost never. Our national confidence has been shaken during my lifetime, with our cut-and-run in Vietnam in particular, and the 9/11 attacks that we still haven't made the culprits atone for. But it's all right, it's all right, we can't be forever blessed.

I can always use more good brothers. :) I told you before that wiki editors that don't get along will still sometimes defend each other. Someone accused CoM of being a sock of Deeceevoice. Unless there's something that I'm totally overlooking, that's about as likely as my getting elected Pope someday. So I came to his defense and he's still saying "F.U." to me, but it doesn't really matter. They shouldn't make those kinds of accusations without solid evidence. Unless I am 100% certain, I only raise questions (or, sometimes, SPI's). Outright accusations on shaky evidence are unjustified personal attacks. (I only believe in justified personal attacks). Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 01:30, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I remember that Trek episode (I'm a huge Trek fan)! And I'd have to say that I agree with you on the observations of regarding our place in history and the wars we've been involved in. I don't know what to say as far as the CoM thing - I know I'm getting to really respect what Caspian Blue is doing (and he opposed my RfA). He's definitely earned my respect in a lot of areas lately. I'm not really familiar with the Egyptian history article that this individual spat is about, but I am certainly developing some strong impressions about WMC, Mathsi, and the little agenda campaign they've embarked on. Perhaps CoM is just a little hesitant to trust anyone at the moment - and to be honest, I can certainly understand that. I know some folks develop an opinion of an editor (either good or bad), when they've edited the same content - but I am as upset as you in regards to these blocks, bans, and accusations being handed out simply to ensure ones preferred version of content. Nothing I want to get to vocal about at the moment, but something I am keeping an eye on - and when I feel I can add some insight to things, I'll do my best. By the way, I don't think I'll have to be sending my grandkids to sit on your lap at Christmas time to ask for toys ... lol. ;) — Ched :  ?  02:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I recall once, a year or two ago, when I happened to revert an article the same way as another editor, and the one being reverted said I was a sockpuppet of that other editor. I wasn't too happy about that false claim, which is one reason I'm kind of sensitive to that issue. But he didn't bother bringing an SPI, since several other editors told him he was nuts. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:04, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm ... I didn't know that. It makes sense though, and now I understand why you're so aware of the issues. — Ched :  ?  03:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

That was some time back, and unfortunately (?) I don't really keep a written "enemies list", so it would take quite a bit of digging to find, and for no really useful purpose. I am pretty much immune to unwarranted criticism, but false accusations of rules violations, I do take personally. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I know what you mean. I can tend to be overly sensitive about my efforts here as well. Burried in my talk archives (or r Kives) are a couple threads that I took rather strong exception to when I should have leaned a little on the WP:DGAF thing, and realized it was just a tip being passed along. I agree, life is to short to "save up enemies", I'd rather look at it from the point of view: "perhaps somewhere in the future, I can find a reason to be supportive of the person, if not actually becoming their friend" — Ched :  ?  03:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The ones that were truly offensive, or which are still troublesome years after being banned, kind of stick with you, and you don't need a list. If you have to look them up, it might not be that important. Gerry Ford said of Richard Nixon, "If you have to make a list of your enemies, you have too many enemies." rKive is the name of a type of file box. It's a trademark. Maybe I should use a trademark symbol when I post that edit summary. :) The other variant, about an "ark hive", I heard decades ago, and it was probably old then. Henny Youngman used to say there are no new jokes, and he would know. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:08, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Would this be a good time for: "Take my enemies ... please!" ... LOL. Sorry, it was too easy. :-) — Ched :  ?  04:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm just pleased that you know Henny Youngman. :) He was like a human joke book. He would go anywhere, play any gig that was offered, and he always killed. He would go on Carson and start rattling off jokes. Even if a specific joke wasn't that funny, or you had heard it a hundred times, there were so many, coming at you like a machine gun, that you couldn't help laughing. I think the closest modern equivalent would have been Rodney Dangerfield. The difference is that Henny had a pretty "clean" act, while Rodney was really out there. But they were both great. They don't really make 'em like that anymore. Jay Leno tries. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL ... I loved Youngman, although I wasn't overly impressed with his violin skills ... lol. I think the modern day delivery that would come to mind would be Dennis Miller as far as similar "rapid fire". My dad, and one of my good real life friends both LOVE Rodney - I liked his stand-up, but thought his choice of movies wasn't always the best for his style. (outside of that one college one). As far as my favorite "clean" comedian ... far and away - nobody even close: Red Skelton. Sigh, sometimes I get just a bit sad thinking about what my daughter and grandkids missed. It was a different era that the current generation could learn a lot from. Drifting a bit, but do you remember when "The man who wears the star" would actually walk out, not only fill up your gas tank, but actually clean your windows! — Ched :  ?  04:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, Red Skelton, yes - we used to watch his show all the time. Now, he would sometimes get into some risque stuff (by early 1960s standards), but always with a twinkle. The thing about Red was that he loved to laugh so much, that he would laugh at his own jokes, which is something comics generally don't do, but it was endearing with him. Another favorite was Jack Benny, especially when he would have Mel Blanc on. The "little Mexican" sketch doesn't necessarily look that funny on paper, but it was the delivery - it was a riot. And then there was the "Anaheim, Azusa, and Cuc....amonga" bit. Texaco, eh? Yes, back when they really were "service" stations. Texaco Star Theater was the name of Uncle Miltie's show, which was a little before my time, but I recall reading about one joke of his: He was opposite Bishop Fulton Sheen for awhile, and he once said, "We both work for the same boss: Sky Chief!" OK, now you've got me humming this one, from when jingles were production numbers: "You can trust your car to the man who wears the star / For the finest products that can take care of your car / At every Texaco station / Clean across the nation / You can trust your car to the man who wears the star / The big, bright, Texaco star!" OK, now you can be humming this to yourself while you're trying to get to sleep. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:53, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of Benny, and Texaco: [4] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

←lol ... Benny would flip at the cost of a gallon of gas today! ... and yep, I'll be humming that tune in my sleep. ;) — Ched :  ?  05:13, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

For sure. And now you've got me started. This is all your fault. It must be. Here's Rochester trying to think of a present for Mr. Benny. The guy behind the counter is Rolfe Sedan, who was on the Superman episode called "The Big Freeze". [5] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The first Red Skelton youtube that came up was this classic blooper, which I vaguely recall seeing at the time, in which he and Jack Albertson and a cow demonstrate the perils of "live" TV.[6] Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Bugs and Red break

As I head off to slumber land ... I leave you with this link ;) — Ched :  ?  06:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Excellent. :) And one other thing about Red is to realize that he was huge in radio prior to the advent of TV. A lot of his catch-phrases found their way into Warner Bros. cartoons of the 1940s. For example, "He don't know me vewwy well, do he?" was used a number of times by Bugs Bunny, Tweety, etc. Then there was Bullwinkle J. Moose, who was almost a direct ripoff of Clem Kadiddlehopper. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:31, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey. I knew they both (Red and Bugs) both shared some common "lines" - had never really thought about which came first. I use the "He don't know me verwwy well, do he?" comment often in life ... lol. I know it started very early in the Bugs cartoons (WW II / 1940s). I've heard some of the early radio broadcasts (after the fact), that Red did. He had some great stuff. One of my favs was when he would do the Gertrude and Heacliff seagulls bits. Going back a few posts, I had seen that "Cow do-do" bit before, and howl everytime I see it again .. lol. Was Jack Alberston ever "young"? I had never made the connection between Clem Kadiddlehopper and Bullwinkle before ... but you're exactly right. — Ched :  ?  12:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

WB cartoonists shamelessly stole from pop culture, but it also served as kind of a cross-media "advertising". Young Jack Albertson. Well, the youngest thing I've seen him in was a quick clip in "Miracle on 34th Street", as the mailroom worker who gets the idea to send all the Santa Claus letters over to the courthouse (thus nullifying the argument made by the defensive attorney, but why quibble?) I think Red sued the Jay Ward company and/or Bill Scott for that impression ripoff, but I'm not sure what came of it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:24, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Civility/poll

Can you take a look at WP:Incivility/Poll. Ive spent the day in thought. Have not read any of the conversation at the poll so I'm not sure where to plug in my thoughts. Any ideas are welcome. I'm off to read the ideas of fellow editors about this most important issue. --Buster7 (talk) 06:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I noticed you found the other "civility" poll. I skimmed through it - some very good points. I'll chip in later tonight - you might want to get the talk page going - just to discuss some of the items. Cheers, and good to hear from you Buster. ;) — Ched :  ?  12:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Pardon me for sounding uncivil, but I don't think there's any such word as "incivil". There's "incivility", but not "incivil", that I've ever seen (outside of wikipedia). It's like if you are "unable" to do something, you have an "inability" to do it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:27, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

My mom (a former English teacher), brought up the same point to me. I told her that I thought she was "mis-under-estimating" my skills ... lol ... sorry Dubya ... it was too easy. — Ched :  ?  13:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, your Mom was over-exaggerating. That reminds me of when someone posted a notice in our company lunchroom saying something like, "Let's keep are workspace clean." I told my folks about this, and they were appalled. A co-worker told me I was being "picky". But shortly after I pasted a cutout of the word "our" over "are", the sign was taken down. English triumphs. :) Or maybe I should say one form of nannyism triumphs over another. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 13:39, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I think your right. And I enjoy you're ability to notice these things. >:) — Ched :  ?  13:56, 10 July 2009 (UTC) (yep - deliberately done)

Incivility = uncivil behavior. One is a noun, the other an adjective.--Buster7 (talk) 14:12, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey Buster, sorry about that - Bugs and I have a habit of gettin' to gabbin' sometimes. Anyway, I know "incivil" isn't a recognized word; but, I tend to hear the two words in my mind, and make a distinction. I tend to think of "uncivil" as not going out of ones way to be polite and civil - where I tend to think of "incivil" as being directly the opposite of civil. I know I'm not correct in that, but it's just the way my mind works. I like what you worked up by the way - and I'll add my thoughts later today. — Ched :  ?  14:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

No prob...but the distinction you raise is interesting and subtle. Extending your thought makes me think that "'incivil" is intentional while Uncivil is, perhaps, just a misunderstanding, a clash of cultural differences, a soft way of being vs. a hard way of being. --Buster7 (talk) 14:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes ... exactly the way my mind processes it as well. Well said. ;) — Ched :  ?  14:50, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

'Incivil' is most certainly a word, however it is not used very often. Law _{type! snype?} 19:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

On my recent visits here, I noticed the MOP standing 'over der in da corner'...But it didn't dawn on me until just now what it meant. Sincere Congrats. Had I known I certainly would have vehemently supported your adminship. --Buster7 (talk) 14:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Escape The Fate

Thank you for placing the protection on the Escape The Fate page. It was getting edited by what appeared to be unintelligent 15 year olds.

hsxeric (talk) 15:35, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

No problem, hopefully vandals will become bored when they can't vandalize. ;) — Ched :  ?  05:47, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Smiles at the beginning of sentences

Hi there Ched Davis, I noticed this formatting. Just so you know, in order to prevent the colon/semi-colon formatting, use the code <nowiki>;)</nowiki>, and it'll produce ";)". Hope that helps. ;) Acalamari 23:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

HA ... thanks Acalamari, I didn't even think of that! — Ched :  ?  23:57, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I was actually going to come and say the same thing. You silly sausage. :D — neuro^(talk) 16:42, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Future Poll

I feel ya on this. Wayyyy too many bytes spent on those Jimbo things. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 00:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the note Amorymeltzer. To be honest, I'm not really sure what to make of all this talk lately. To me, it seems like a "we want to take over" type of thing. I'm not sure what it's supposed to accomplish. Personally, I like Wikipedia - and I don't see a need to suddenly make some radical changes to it. I'm not saying that Jimbo is always right in all things, but I don't see a need to just "kick him to the curb" either. I think civility has served us well. I think Jimbo usually makes very well informed decisions. And I think the community works pretty well on the whole. I understand that we need to continue to evolve, grow, and change in order to maintain a respectable status on the web. I've also seen other .com sites make drastic changes in hopes of either "growing" or "keeping up" - it historically has not been successful to approach business decisions in that way. But, ... going back to my younger years, to quote a common chant of the day ... "Power to the people". ;) — Ched :  ?  02:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply

Hello, Ched. You have new messages at Coffee's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Talkback

Hello, Ched. You have new messages at Wikipedia talk:Requests for bureaucratship/Juliancolton.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

yousaf465 15:43, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, no problem. Sometimes it's very easy to type the first thing that comes to mind. I'm glad you reconsidered. ;) — Ched :  ?  21:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

No problem.yousaf465

Jealousy...

Hi Chad, I noticed that you extended certain rights to a well-known troublemaker, CoM, and I was wondering if you would have a look at my article contributions, to see if I can put in for Autoreviewer too. Not that I think my new articles (little bitty stubby thingies, usually) won't withstand scrutiny, but I just can't stand it if CoM has a toy tool that I don't have! Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Drmies, I'd be happy to take a look. A couple things I'd like to mention though. 1.) I'm not particularly fond of referring to other editors as "troublemakers". While I'm certainly aware of many of the controversial threads and edits that CoM has made, I prefer to look for the positive things in all editors. The other minor item would be .. it's "ChEd, rather than Chad. Anyway, I'll have a look, and be with you shortly. — Ched :  ?  02:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Given the facetious nature of the section heading, I'm sure Drmies was using 'trouble-maker' in the nicest possible way. Law _{type! snype?} 02:55, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

/me gives Ched his sarcasm detector back. :P –Juliancolton | ^Talk 03:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

lmF'ingao ... hey, I figure this is minor - I figure I'm gonna have to stock up on rations after my latest "warning". Hey Law, maybe we should start an "Outlaw admin" Cabal - you know - the ones that follow the policies and guidelines. We're a "baaaaad" group! — Ched :  ?  03:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

@Julian -- I wondered what ever happened to that damed thing ... and here you've had it all the time .. lulz ;-) — Ched :  ?  03:07, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey Ched. Thanks for the additional tools! Now that a devoted rabblerouser has them too, they don't seem that special and I don't want them any more. Also, I've accidentally rolled something back a couple of times, and I kind of like having my new articles patrolled. I hate to be ungrateful, but would you mind stripping me these special tools? I guess I'm just an old-fashioned kind of editor. It was cool and interesting to check them out though, and I appreciate your empowering me with them and helping to deal with the aftermath. Thanks! I can't wait to get the Walmart rollback pricing nightmares out of my head... ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:42, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

reply to Rootology

.....21:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)...well said!--Buster7 (talk) 02:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Cattle

What would be the reason for this rollback of a talk page comment? [7] It doesn't look like a vandalistic edit, but maybe I'm overlooking something. I don't really know Montanabw, except as a victim of the User:ItsLassieTime sockfarm, sometime this past spring. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:27, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Looking .. hang on.... — Ched :  ?  04:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Is anyone going to ask the editor who made the revert? Law _{type! snype?} 04:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Not me. I'm not talking to him anymore. Or at least, he's not talking to me. But I have serious concerns about his having rollback rights, for exactly this kind of situation. I use rollback with extreme caution - only for very obvious vandalism, like random blanking, or random insertion of nonsense or profanity - and typically only in articles, not talk pages. It should not be used for removing text he doesn't think is appropriate. Such removal should be made by a "manual" revert, the "old fashioned way", and with an explanation. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

That is a suitable explanation. I wish you both were on better terms. I will notify him about this thread, as only he can give the most concise explanation of his actions. Law _{type! snype?} 04:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I looked, I reverted, I left a TP comment. Point taken. There are understandable "NOT FORUM" issues with this, I'd rather not see it escalated.

Bugs, how does this appear to you as "rollback"? ... what I see now is different I think than before I had the buttons. How do I tell the difference? — Ched :  ?  04:50, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I can't absolutely say he used rollback. But I posted a test message on my own page, and then did a rollback, and the edit summary was worded exactly in the same format as his revert was. So unless he typed in the text using the same verbiage a rollback does (which is possible but kind of a weird way to do things), then it had to have been a rollback. In any case, he should have posted an explanation rather than just saying "reverting"-such-and-such. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:59, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Yea ... look at my contribs ... I'm doing the same thing ... I'm not sure yet — Ched :  ?  05:03, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

If 'reverted' is linked to Rollback, it's a rollback. I hope things don't look too different to you Ched - or perhaps I didn't get the full toolkit. Law _{type! snype?} 05:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, here's what I saw:

(Reverted edits by Montanabw (talk) to last version by Rocket000)

(Reverted edits by Baseball Bugs (talk) to last version by Stifle)

I want to point out that when I was given rollback, a user warned the admin that I was not to be trusted with it. Stung by that presupposition, I have tried to only use rollback when appropriate. Sometimes I've used it and realized I owed an explanation, so I rolled myself back and then reverted again, but with an explanation. If I'm off base here, let me know. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

You are exactly right. If it is blatant vandalism, it can be rolled back without explanation. Anything further is going to require an edit summary or the tool will be removed. Law _{type! snype?} 05:08, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The best bet is for one of you, whom he presumably trusts, to simply tell him not to do that again. Anyone can make one mistake. Good faith, as Ched said in his own edit summary. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

That reminds me - he was given a second privilege along with rollback. Can you tell me what it's called, and what it does? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Autoreviewer Law _{type! snype?} 05:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I see. I don't quite understand its purpose, but it doesn't sound like something I would need, as I am not a "new page patroller". I have a sizable watch list, but that's about it. It is ironic that he gripes about other users being "patrollers". I guess it's OK for him, though, since he's morally superior to some of us. (Meow). Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Yep ... you're both right ... I will issue a warning. Apologies for the time delay in catching up to the twinkle vs. rollback thing .. I just wanted to be sure. — Ched :  ?  05:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) If Law doesn't beat me to it, I'll add it to your rights ASAP ... sigh, ... he's a lot faster than me ... but I'll try to beat him to it... lol. Good grief .. I had no idea you had created so many damn articles Bugs... geesh! — Ched :  ?  05:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Add what? Autoreviewer? What would that do? Is it passive, or am I going to start to see a bunch of stuff turning up? I don't know that I've created all that many articles. Certainly none (or hardly any) connected with politics. That's one of CoM's gripes - that I don't create articles about politics, hence I presumably don't know anything about the subject. I'm a child of the 60s. I know something about politics. One thing I know is that it's a mine field here. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec)Twinkle is another thing I've never used, although I hear a lot about it, especially when certain users' names turn up, though I don't want to mention any names (hint: it generated a very large entry on ANI in the last day or so). Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:33, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Eh. Who didn't have a large entry on ANI in the last couple of days. Law _{type! snype?} 05:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, you want specifics. OK, here's another clue for you all - the walrus's paw - oh, wait, wrong number. It had to do with a guy who had been indef'd for several months and negotiated a deal to get unblocked and within a day (to no one's surprise) he got himself into hot water. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh no, I was poking fun at myself for having been taken there recently :P Law _{type! snype?} 05:41, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I think I saw that. No one takes me to ANI any more. :( They used to, but I guess they all got run out of town. Either that, or I'm not editing enough controversial stuff now. I need to go to the talk page where they're holding a friendly Arab-Israeli discussion, and tell them, "You're all a bunch of psycopaths! [sic]" Incivility combined with bad spelling. Over the line, for sure. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:11, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Twinkle is a java script thingie that adds a couple buttons to the top of your page, and a couple extra "links" to things when you look at a page history. It has some stuff that when you "revert" vandalism, it automatically pops up the talk page of the person you reverted, then you can click on the "warn" tab, pick the type of warning, and drop the whole thing in a couple easy click/links. It also has a tab to report a user to AIV (something I think you could use a lot). It automatically fills in the "diffs", and the article that was vandalized. It's actually pretty cool, and not hard to get the hang of. — Ched :  ?  05:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like it could be useful in some circumstances. Is that something anyone can run, or does it require a privilege, and also that your username not start with a letter of the Greek alphabet? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Go to Special:Preferences. You enable it in gadgets. It's not automated, so you need not worry too much about 'running it.' Law _{type! snype?} 06:02, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Aha. Well, IE is not on the list, so that rules me out anyway. (I'll wait while you revive and climb up off the floor.) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:04, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Haha. I nearly did faint. Go download the darn thing. Law _{type! snype?} 06:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

What, a replacement for IE? No, can't do that. The wife has urged me to also. Nope. Meanwhile, thanks to Ched for giving me autoreviewer. I don't know if I'll ever use it, but I have one key question: Does it have a nifty little graphic, like rollback does? I like having nifty little graphics on my page to impress those who think I might know something they don't. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:14, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Would this be the nifty little graphic? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:20, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

sounds good to me ... ;-) — Ched :  ?  06:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile, I was just checking CoM's page to see what he had to say, since I don't actively watch his page anymore. I accept the possibility he might have clicked it by accident, as I've been known to click things by accident, except I usually know I did it and try to reverse it. Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out whether I'm more of a "douche bag" or a "troll". Or is it both? :'( Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, CoM seems to think he no longer has rollback rights, but I don't think that's correct, as I don't see anything in the rights log accept where you added those rights. Unfortunately, I've misplaced how to check someone's rights. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:38, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Awww Bugs, you know better than to pay attention to the crap kids say. Remember when we were young and wanted to change the world? Hey, I appreciate how hard you tried, and I know how frustrating it is when someone won't even meet (or is that meat) you half way. But look at it this way ... regardless of the reasons, CoM has been hammered from every side for the last couple months. Granted; much of it has been due to his own doing, but I remember when I started too. I tried so hard to contribute to computer articles .. much of it was reverted because of NOT #HOWTO .. and the Larry Sanger article ... total frustration. Our kids fuck up sometimes... it doesn't mean that they're bad kids ... even if they view life from a different perspective, it's healthy to have the checks and balances. We're old farts Bugs, we know what we know. We can't force our lifes experiences on these kids - they have to learn it for themselves. Hey, I'm gonna try to get up to the Wisconsin area this fall ... on the way through Chi-town, we'll get together and have a couple beers and laughs. Don't sweat the "website" crap ... don't let it eat you up. We're too damn old to worry about that kind of crap. Let's do what we can to pass on what we know, and the hell with those that won't listen. Live long and prosper. ;-) — Ched :  ?  06:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and I finally caught on... I don't care about the name-calling. Kids today are basically shamelessly vulgar, unlike the purity of our generation (snicker). See, all that stuff they said back in the 70s about how bad an influence TV was? Turns out they were right, and it's gone downhill since then. And that's the way it is. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, but does he still have rollback rights? I didn't see anything that said they had been taken away. What's that page that tells who has what rights? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

sigh ... when you look at at users "contribs" page, there's a link at the bottom for User rights. — Ched :  ?  07:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Of course. Silly me. And he's still got it, so I don't understand what he's not seeing. Something was said about "buttons", and maybe that's how it's expressed in certain browsers, I don't know. But for me on IE, it simply appears as a link called "[rollback]" after the user ID of the most recent change in the article history, and on a given user's contrib history. Baseball Bugs

^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

In terms of a tool that would eliminate trolls, etc., automatically - I'm reminded of a Twilight Zone episode, in which some squirrely guy had a notecard file of all the "evil people" in the world. By force of will, at Four O'Clock, he was going to somehow turn all the evil people into little gnomes - 1 1/2 feet high or whatever - so that they could be identified on sight. And at the appointed time, it happened - except that the only one who shrunk to gnome size was himself. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 07:49, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

OK ... I'll have to look at the variations on different browsers ... but, for me (and Firefox as a browser)... when I look at a diff. I have 3 lines on the right side.

• [rollback (AGF)] || [rollback] || [rollback (VANDAL)] (these are all part of the "Twinkle" set of tools I think
• Current revision as of 06:33, July 14, 2009 (edit) (undo) (I think everyone has this)
• Baseball Bugs (talk | contribs | block) [rollback] (the rollback that shows here is what the "rights" give a person)

that's as far as I know, but I'll look at it in IE with my alt. account, and try to clarify it if I can. — Ched :  ?  08:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

and yep! I remember that episode! — Ched :  ?  08:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched - can you look again at your comment on the cattle page? I think you were trying to interpret why CoM may have removed it and then you left a message. I read the discussion twice and really think the users are using the talk page appropriately and discussing the article, naming conventions, and such. I was hoping you might remove it because the participants seem to be acting in good faith. Law _{type! snype?} 08:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

PLEASE don't anyone take offense to this .. but "I DON'T CARE!" Revert it, change it, strike it, redact it, burn it and flush it down the damn toilet. It's a couple sentences about cows. It's a web page ... no, it's a "discussion" about a web page. I have no doubts whatsoever that each and every one of the people involved were, and are, acting in good faith. I just can't find it in my heart or soul to spend time on this. I'm sorry. Do what you think is right - I'm not going to argue one way or the other about it. Sorry for the rant, but I'm headed for my bed now. Whatever is decided is fine by me. — Ched :  ?  08:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Heh. That's pretty much the response I figured I would get. I just wanted to ease Casp's mind. Perhaps he thinks you are delicate. I'll roll the comment back so we can come full circle. Ω≈ Law _{type! snype?} 08:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched's a strong guy. A lesser man might feel cowed. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 12:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

9_9 ,,, I guess it's a Moot point now. ;-) — Ched :  ?  17:29, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I had to check with you man - I don't want beef. Law _{type! snype?} 02:27, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

thanx for the info...but

Hi ched

thanx for the info but, im still new to wiki and im still learning how it works,what is the three revert rule? what is a "revert"? i dont understand.. The.blurrz (talk) 17:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Happy Bastille Day!

Dear fellow Wikipedian, on behalf of the Kindness campaign, I just want to wish you a Happy Bastille Day, whether you are French, Republican or not!  :) Happy Editing! Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 21:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

WebHamster RFC

I hope I did this right. It was excessively complicated. Do you want to "certify" it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/WebHamster#Statement_of_the_dispute

Noloop (talk) 00:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Aww crap, I had hoped that it would have all died down. You should realize that you're going to be subjected to criticism for baiting and such as well. I'll look at it, and I'll think about the situation. To be honest, this is not what I hoped to be doing here. — Ched :  ?  01:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Ugh. Have you guys heard about the upcoming Wikipedia:The Great Wikipedia Dramaout? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:41, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeppers ... scroll up on the sign up sheet ... I was in from the get-go! Glad to see you are too! I'll always remember the "moth to the flame" comment, but I've seen what you can do when you put your efforts towards article work. Let's rock and roll!! — Ched :  ?  01:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

98.204.183.125 again

Hi, Can you please zap 98.204.183.125? The ANI discussion was archived without action but he/she is continuing the same behaviour endlessly. Thanks. Zero^talk 09:45, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

 Done and re. at UT — Ched :  ?  12:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Notability and fiction

Wikipedia:Notability and fiction (shortcut WP:NAF) has been drafted per the general consensus at the recent RFC to which you contributed. You are invited to review the essay and to edit it in an attempt to generate a consensus regarding the issue. Hiding T 10:09, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

YEA!!!! ... we're finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel! I'll be happy to take a look later today when time permits. Glad to hear it! Cheers. ;) — Ched :  ?  12:15, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the push. Your offer (re:admin) was recieved and truly moved me. At this time, I'd rather stay a part of the huddled masses searching for Truth, Justice and the Wikipedian Way. Not that the admins don't search for the same. Plus I don't look real good in Velvet. Also, I'm not great with the tools provided for everyday editing and the RULE BOOK is under a pile of papers under the windowsill (I think). With the 5 day drama-down Ive started to work on Incivilty, etc. and work out some ideas or a paper or whatever in response to Bacchus's challenge. (Which I probably would not have done without your push to get more involved)...Anyway, always a pleasure. See you in the schoolyard. Did I see some talk of a Constitution somewhere? --Buster7 (talk) 16:49, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I'm gonna give the WP:NODRAMA a shot as well. Lots of BLP uncat stuff to do, a couple NASCAR things I've been putting off for too long and all. I'll keep in touch. ;) — Ched :  ?  16:53, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:NODRAMA reminder

Thanks for signing up for the Great Wikipedia Dramaout. Wikipedia stands to benefit from the improvements in the article space as a result of this campaign. This is a double reminder. First, the campaign begins on July 18, 2009 at 00:00 (UTC). Second, please remember to log any articles you have worked on during the campaign at Wikipedia:The Great Wikipedia Dramaout/Log. Thanks again for your participation! --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 21:11, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment on my talk page. As Jayron32 said above, the dramaout is only a few hours away.--^{The Legendary}_{Sky Attacker} 21:13, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Drama?

Luckily I did not sign up for it. The drama is liable to accelerate on the Moon Hoax page, as NASA today released photos from the current lunar orbiter that show the Apollo landing sites. Some of the hoaxsters are going to slink away, while others are going to fire back with both barrels, as their pet balloon, nurtured these many years, has been popped. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 21:17, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey Bugs, sorry - I honestly wasn't ignoring you - but I had to get some final thoughts posted in regards to a "drama" that I was a party to. Then I had to run out on a call. (computer service). Anyway - sounds cool. I'll certainly check in on the article. You probably remember from a while back that I love those types of articles. Heck, my sister is a "big-shot" working at NASA, and I'm a huge "Space" and "Sci-Fi" fan. I'll certainly take a look. I can't get involved in any of the "drama", but if I can provide any article improvements, then I'll certainly give it a shot. All that "hoax" stuff makes me laugh sometimes. I've seen enough to know that these "hoax POV" .... whoa ... wait, wait, wait .... nope ... I'll finish that thought next week ... lol.

On another note, I do have an article in mind. I might not get anything really done with it this week, but it revolves around that whole Obama and the teleprompter thing. Something along the lines of "Technology and World leaders". First person to use: trains, planes, email, etc. I'd need you to copyedit it because of my POV on Obama and all. I'll likely give "undue" weight on my first draft - so I thought you might be willing to help me keep it NPOV. Whatcha think? — Ched :  ?  02:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

As in "first President to use a teleprompter"? Well, it certainly wasn't Obama. I know it goes back at least as far as LBJ. The thing is, you have to pay attention. I've never been able to find a source for this, but I recall once when he was reading a speech and started to re-read part of it. He got several sentences in before he realized either the machine or some human (likely the latter) had messed up. He had to start improvising his speech, and it didn't go all that well. I would rather my President read his speech and get it right. Of course, it's hard to top Ike for running a smooth press conference. That's probably because it was filmed, and they edited it for airplay. The best press conference guy, ever, had to be JFK. He had a way of softening a tough question with charm and wit, and the TV cameras ate it up. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

If you didn't know already, the article in question is Apollo Moon landing hoax conspiracy theories, along with some spinoff articles. I think that article is one of the best you'll find on the matter, as it lists a lot of questions that the hoaxsters always come up, and calmly demolishes every one of them. Naturally, the hoaxsters don't like that. Every few months someone turns up with the same tired arguments - kind of like with Obama, although the Obama folks are understandably a lot more persistent. It's not like the future of America is in the hands of NASA. Also, it turns out there's not near as much interest in the subject as the hoaxsters like to think there is. Someone posted this [8] in that article today, and it's remarkable how little attention the major media have paid to it - remarkable because the media consider it unremarkable. They don't question the facts of the moon landings. The hoaxsters inflated the importance of this theory beyond belief, but it's really just a little cult following - one that's likely to dwindle, kind of like belief in the flat earth dwindled once the New World was discovered. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 02:34, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Good info! I'm thinking that the Apollo Moon landing hoax conspiracy theories article might have been where I first met you. I'll be digging up some refs over the next week or so on the "Tech and Leaders" concept. Once I get something started, I'll drop you the link. Those "conspiracy theory" folks make me scratch my head sometimes, but then again - my final thesis in both Public Speaking and English were both on the JFK assassination. I agree 100% that JFK was without a doubt, one of our finest hours. I hated to see the "media" over the years become so "we need to tell this" in nature. It damaged us in Nam, it's destroyed reputations, and tanked some very valuable things over the years which could have benefited society as a whole. I'm all in favor of "truth" - but not for the sole purpose of sensationalism. Sometimes I think that "common sense" really isn't so "common". ;) — Ched :  ?  03:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I also used to be a conspiracy theorist when I was younger, especially around the time of Watergate when conspiracies seemed to be everywhere (thank you, Richard Nixon, for elevating the level of trust - NOT!) There was a lot of coverage about JFK on the 40th anniversary, and I came to the realization that Oswald not only could have, but most likely did, act alone. I was sure he was part of it from the get-go, when he gave what sounded like a rehearsed answer to the press when he was asked if he had killed the President. A core assumption of the conspiracy theories have been that it was not physically possible for Oswald to have done it all himself. It turns out that it was possible, and that fact coupled with the lack of any real evidence of a conspiracy seals the deal, as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean I'm right, it just means that's the best we've got. Vaguely similar is the George Reeves suicide. There has been some controversy over it, but again the conspiracists' core assumption, that it wasn't possible, has been demonstrated to be false. So you have to go with the best evidence, while remaining open (passively, at least) to any new, solid evidence that might turn up. As far as the moon landings, there was never any doubt in my mind, but I watched with some interest, a TV show on Fox a few years back, that tried to question the Apollo history. As soon as they started talking about "waving flags" and the lack of stars in the photos, I knew they were either ignorant or willfully misleading, and I was angry, frankly. But there are suckers born every minute who will buy into that stuff without bothering to ask whether the "evidence" of a hoax stands up to scrutiny. There are certain people that cling to conspiracy theories, like an alternate religion or something. Conspiracy theories are certainly interesting as social phenomena. Just not as indicators of truth. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 03:42, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

woo hoo ... don't get me started on Watergate and Nixon. Rather than risk a violation of NODRAMA ..I'll simply say that I agree with you on that .. emphatically! On the JFK assassination .. I'm likely to disagree. There is no way that I believe that it was a "one man show". But I won't go into it for a week or so .. ;). As far moon landings ... sure .. I know for a fact that they happened. I feel sorry for those who can't accept the obvious, but ... whatever. — Ched :  ?  04:07, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I remain open to the possibility of a conspiracy in the JFK case. One thing is that the way both the government and the Kennedys handled it did not inspire confidence. The Kennedys just clammed up, pulling the wagons into a circle, but perhaps that's understandable. And immediately after the assassination, everyone assumed that Russia was behind it, which if true would likely have started World War III. What you had instead was the typical glory-seeking lone gunman, the kind of guy who ironically probably would have believed the Apollo conspiracy theory. Oswald was certainly a strange bird. Anyway, all the physical events of the assassination are explainable by a lone gunman. That doesn't prove it, but it makes it possible. But it's been over 45 years, and JFK remains dead, and it's not something I spend a lot of time worrying about. :) In fact, JFK's death actually helped spur the civil rights reforms and the Apollo program, among other things, as LBJ invoked the memory of "our late, beloved President", never mind that they were essentially political enemies. So in that sense, JFK's death might have been a "good" thing in a certain context. Unfortunately, there was also Vietnam, which did LBJ in, and caused a terrible rift in this country. As a student of history, there's one thing I'm sure of: Where war is concerned, it's better to win than to lose. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:24, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Interested in your opinion

Do you agree with User:Mythdon that this warrants a civility warning? --Malleus Fatuorum 23:35, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Interjecting - no it does not - not even vaguely. And also, yes I have read WP:BLOCK - proposing changes to it by way of discussion on the talk page (which I did) would seem a sensible thing. Your attitude in this matter, Malleus, is confusing. You are vocal about blocking, yet you leap to the defence of the block policy, as written, as if it is cast in stone? Or am I reading that wrong? Because this seems strange for you. Pedro :  Chat  23:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess that's a fair comment. You're quite right to suggest that I don't agree with many of wikipedia's policies. Neither though do I agree with administrators extending their arbitrary and unaccountable powers beyond what has been agreed in those already unacceptable limits. --Malleus Fatuorum 00:04, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Mythdon has removed it. Theresa Knott | token threats 23:52, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

So that makes it OK then does it? Have you given Mythdon a civility warning? --Malleus Fatuorum 00:04, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes and no respectively. Theresa Knott | token threats 00:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I will spare you the trauma of telling you what I really think. Instead I will simply say "Have a nice day". --Malleus Fatuorum 00:15, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to intrude, but I've opened a discussion at WT:BLOCK. All opinions would be helpful. --Elliskev 01:02, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

OK. Let me tell you frankly what my view is. Administrators can wank each other off on whichever forums they choose, but they are not at liberty to change the rules of engagement as they see fit without a consensus to do so. --Malleus Fatuorum 01:11, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Please add your concerns at WT:BLOCK. --Elliskev 01:16, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Why should I bother? --Malleus Fatuorum 01:19, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Hell... I don't know. Can't hurt? --Elliskev 01:21, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Just a waste of time. I can think of far better ways of wasting my time than that. --Malleus Fatuorum 01:24, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Really? Try? --Elliskev 01:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd rather stick pins in my eyes. --Malleus Fatuorum 01:41, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

That taking the Oedipus complex a bit literally? Haha. Don't do it! Law _{type! snype?} 02:31, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

← HEY folks - how ya all doin? Sorry I'm so late to my own party. Anyway, snacks are on the counter - help yourselves. OK - first post first. Mal - nope - not seeing anything there at all. I'm guessing that you're asking as far as "can you confirm that you also believe that there is no call for a warning". I'm guessing that due to your often stated disdain for WP:CIV. I concur - nothing to raise a fuss over.

• Pedro .. hey my friend - good to see you back in action! Hope life it treating you well.
• Theresa ... hey you! I've so much been wanting to find an excuse to introduce myself. I've seen your work here, and I really appreciate what you do. I kinda do have to warn you though - sometimes I can be a bit of a flirt, but I'll try to keep toned down. ;)
• Elliskev - hey there, pleasure to meet you. I look forward to working with you over the coming years.
• Law ... hey how's it going buddy?

re: Mal. Please do not be sticking sharp objects into your eyes. I'd much rather that you're able to see what you're posting before you actually click on the "Save page" button. ;-)

OK - guess I have to address the topic at hand. I'll try to do so without violating my WP:NODRAMA vow. I've read WP:BLOCK, WP:CIV, WP:NPA, and many other related guidelines, essays, and policies. I personally do not like to "block people out". I'd much prefer that we talk to people first. I tend to extend AGF beyond what many folks would consider reasonable. While I can't comment on the various "policy and guideline" pages for a couple days (self-imposed restriction and all), I do think that we need to treat each and every editor with respect and dignity. I think that far too many people have been chased off the project by snide, crude, rude, and downright ignorant comments made by so called "experienced" Wikipedians. I think that if an editor believes that their experience has evolved to the point that they can be downright nasty to other editors - it's time for them to leave, and write their own books which they can submit to a publisher. Wikipedia was developed as an "open project", with the idea that it would be open to any and all editors who wished to contribute. I think that any push to accept vile and hurtful edits, with some foolish nonsense that we're being "frank", is going to bring the project to its knees. I understand that "Honesty is the first chapter of the book of wisdom", but I also believe that if an editor needs to stoop the base language in order to get a point across - then an "encyclopedic project" is not their forte. We should be "evolving" as a species, not de-evolving. We should be helping - not hurting. Many of us learned a lot of "fun" words in 6th grade gym class, but that kind of language has no place in a project that is attempting to impart knowledge to the future generations. Sorry that I can't agree with everyone all the time - but that is my perception. My very best to all. ;-) — Ched :  ?  02:58, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

No offense intended towards anyone, but I think I need to be working on articles, fixing things, and improving the 'pedia for a bit. You're all welcome to post to User talk:Ched Davis/Archive 8, and I'll still respond to the best of my abilities - but to be perfectly honest, if you post here - please make it about article or 'pedia improvements. If your post is about other issues, it may be a few days before I respond in the proper manner. Best to all ... let's get to work "building" and stop "tearing down". Cheers. — Ched :  ?  05:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey you back

I just read your reply to me in your archives :-) It made me smile! Theresa Knott | token threats 12:47, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

It's always a pleasure to meet a fellow editor who has been working on the project since the beginnings. One or two of the young ladies here might consider me to be a "dirty old man", but really I'm pretty harmless. ;) ... besides, since I live on the other side of the big puddle, you won't have to worry about me :-O .... Nice to meet you Theresa. — Ched :  ?  16:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Well you're not so much older than me that I could think of you as that! Nice to meet you too. Theresa Knott | token threats 17:03, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Awww Theresa, how kind! You just MADE MY DAY! I've gotta admit, after a couple hours of running around with my grandchildren though, I do tend to feel the years creeping up on me a bit ;). And hey, I saw that pic of you on your user page - you look like a pretty young lady to me. ;) — Ched :  ?  17:09, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm ten years younger than you. Theresa Knott | token threats 17:44, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Can you two get yourselves a room :). In seriousness we see far too many comments about "kiddie admins" yet most editors / admins I seem to interact with are not, in fact, teenagers. Perhaps this "perception" needs to be challenged by some hard data - goodness knows where we can get it from however. Pedro :  Chat  19:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, according to the 2008 survey, "Respondents came from over 200 countries, ranging from 10 to 85 years completed the survey; their average age is 26 years, and 25% of the respondents are younger than 18 years. Female respondents are a bit younger than the average (24 years)" –Juliancolton | ^Talk 19:17, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL - what can I say, guilty as charged. ;). I do agree though. I'd be very interested in looking over the data. I suspect that we have a very wide range of ages in our collective. I know of a couple that are still in their teens, (and whose actions would seem to belie their ages), and I'm finding more and more that we have far more admins. who have more "life experience" than I originally thought. I'm sure that there are some that would rather not divulge their age, and I can certainly appreciate the request for privacy; but, I'd imagine that if tasked with the question - some might freely admit to being older than the "kiddie admin perception". — Ched :  ?  19:22, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

I suspect I may be, ironically, close to splitting the differnce between you and my friend Julian above in ages. Julian is, as admitted, under 18 (by an undisclosed number of months/years) and I am in my mid thirties. Yet we all colaborate well and interact with a common vision unbiased by age. Which is, of course, the objective. I wish I could regain my passion for WP that I used to have as it really is bloody worth it. Very best. Pedro :  Chat  19:28, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

52 myself (previous item may be deleted rather quickly) ... but I agree that WP is a very worthwhile project. Over the years I've been involved in many forums, chat rooms, help boards, etc. - but lost my passion for them after too much "been there, done that" type of drama and bickering. WP has rekindled my desires to once again contribute to the on-line community - but I do see far more ... something ... than I'd like. Hopefully this nodrama thing will help folks get back to the positive aspects of our project. I know that several folks, that have been here much longer than I, have often felt "What's the use?" - and I honestly hate to see that. Best to all as well - ;) — Ched :  ?  19:38, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

HELP ON DR MCPARLIN'S PAGE

hi Ched yes any help as am not sure how or what to do to make this float- if you can help I would be most grateful

Paul

am brand new at this and struggling  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs) 17:51, 19 July 2009 (UTC) 

HI CHED I ALSO REALISE I DONT KNOW HOW OR WHERE TO GO TO PICK UP ANY MESSAGE FROM YOU SO IF YOU CAN MAKE IT REAL EASY FOR A SIMPLETON APPRECIATE IT

PAUL

Paul-leedPaul-leeds (talk) 17:55, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Paul. I'd be more than happy to help. I'll drop a note on your talk page shortly. — Ched :  ?  18:02, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Invitation to provide further input on desysop proposal

As someone who commented either for or against proposals here, I would like to invite you to comment further on the desysop process proposal and suggest amendments before I move the proposal into projectspace for wider scrutiny and a discussion on adoption. The other ideas proposed on the page were rejected, and if you are uninterested in commenting on the desysop proposal I understand of course. Thanks! → ROUX ₪ 04:32, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey there Roux. Looks much better I think. I'll add my 2-cents in a couple days, couple tweaks I'd prefer -- but nothing I'd oppose over either. Looks good, Take care — Ched :  ?  11:14, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Restore Article

Hi Chad sorry to disturb you ,as it looks like your working on some kind of drama? yes i would like to buildthe page up from where I got to with help and advice

many thanks Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs) 08:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Will do Paul. Have a couple appts. today - not quite feeling up to snuff, but will get it for you when I get back. — Ched :  ?  11:14, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

ok thanks chad can i run past you as I go along

Paul? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs) 17:34, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

ched getting there 1

hi Ched

I have started to evidence-with refs from the web but the refs could be four or fives for each point

could you let me know if I am in the right direction with this

many thanks

Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs) 18:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll reply on your talk page - looks like you're putting some good efforts to the article. ;) — Ched :  ?  06:00, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Hey Ched, just to let you know, I'm going to be alright. Moving in with some folks for a few months until I can find someplace else. Isn't ideal (gods, I hate cutting grass!) but I won't complain. I sincerely appreciate the offer...couldn't ask for a better friend :) — Huntster (t • @ • c) 08:19, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank goodness! While I don't have the personal where-with-all to offer much, I had discussed several options with family members, associates, and professional acquaintances recently. Should you ever desire to travel to PA, you would be most welcome, have a place to stay at no cost, and I have even been assured through my contacts in the EMT, PD, VFD areas that your talents would be most welcomed. I can relate to the mowing grass thing too ... LOL. I used to take care of that myself, but with the onset of COPD, and about 7 acres that needs to be attended to - we now employ outside sources in that ... yea ... big fancy words ... I still have to go around with the weed-wacker to make it look nice. (lulz). Glad to hear that you've found the things you need my friend. All my best. — Ched :  ?  08:40, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I certainly didn't expect you to go through that much trouble! Thank you again, really :) — Huntster (t • @ • c) 09:30, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey .. I remember how much trouble and time you went to in order to help me - I don't forget those things. ;-) — Ched :  ?  09:54, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Help with IP Address Vandalism

Thank you. He is still reverting edits and will not stop. He has used foul language and racial slurs. He has be warned many times... Is it possible to block him? Again, thanks for your help. Cali567 (talk) 09:31, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Please see: this notice I'm headed to get some sleep now. — Ched :  ?  09:50, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Software IRC

For better and faster discussion between WikiProject Software Members a IRC channel has been created: irc://irc.freenode.net/##WikiProject-Software. For instant access click here: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=##WikiProject-Software. Please use your Wikipedia nickname. You are receiving this message because you are a member of WikiProject Software or one of its departments. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 09:28, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Credits to Tyw7. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:26, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look the first chance I get.. might be a week or two, but I will look. ;) — Ched :  ?  01:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I logged on it twice and there was no one that talked to me. Right now, I guess the only use for for one-on-one communications. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:03, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm there now. Will be there until about 2 hrs later. --Tyw7  (Talk • Contributions) 22:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you Ched for being frank with me right here. I never noticed your reply (honestly) until today. I'll work on the article until GA-class, as I already am with Kaspersky Internet Security. Matter of fact, I found an error regarding the model year and version number, which went unnoticed for quite a while with KIS. Seems like you follow me everywhere you go, however often times you don't communicate with me when I do something offhand. I don't mind advice and criticisms. As you might know, I dealt them out without a second thought earlier in my history. Thank you again. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:31, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey there TO, I think I'm the one that should say "Thank you" to you. I'm really impressed with how much great work you've done here! Sorry I haven't been more active in the "computer" related articles - but since that is what I do for a living, I kinda don't want to get too involved in things. I think you are doing a "GREAT" job here. Hey -- if you ever see me saying something that comes across as being snotty or anything "TELL ME". I know I can be a jerk at times. That link was from ... wow ... so long ago .. lol. I will take a look at the Kaspersky article, and drop you my thoughts on it.

I just did an install recently (actually an upgrade) of NIS 08 to NIS 09 - what a pain! anyway, I'll drop by your talk page in the next few days to chat about it all. I'm always running test of AV stuff. I just finished doing G Data. Did NOD32 last month (still my fav at this point) and I'm gonna do Kaspersky now. Have NIS 09 on a clients network, so I'll see how that goes. I know it's all OR, but it's something I do outside WP, and I don't impose my stuff on anyone. I think you're doing a fantastic job - and I'm sorry I haven't been more involved in the computer stuff on WP. I'll try to do better. ;) — Ched :  ?  02:13, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

No, I really appreciate your comments. Never have one of yours been a little off color. As for the computer stuff, it doesn't matter. I'll get them done over the course of this summer. Trying to add an "Reception" section to each Norton article, working on Microsoft Security Essentials to get it to GA, and of course Kaspersky/NOD. Hey, I noticed a PC Magazine review of Malwarebytes; that's a great, rich source of information for the "Reception" section of Malwarebytes. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyways, I'll be hitting the sack as you rise. See you tomorrow! TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:35, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

User:Paul-leeds/Dr. Peter McParlin

1.Hi Chad as an ex care user the changes to the care system and education syetem have come off his campaining work

2.invited to FRSA ( fellow royal society of arts for his acheivements)as a result of his acheievements

3.worked hard on his trustee roles all around charities looking after in care kids

4.written a stash wont bore you with what(www.adoptionuk.org/images/Education of Children in Care.doc)(The education of children in care - Vol. 19, Part 2 ( February 2006)www.thepsychologist.org.uk/.../archive_home.cfm?...19

5.particularly responsible for kids in care getting off the strees and into university([PDF] (Going to University from Care 578k - Adobe PDF - View as html 6.The idea for the project originated in a discussion with Dr Peter McParlin, who has used ) Highlighting education for children in care Among the speakers was Dr Peter McParlin, a consultant research child and educational psychologist, who has first hand experience of living in care, ... 7.national speaker(Highlighting education for children in care Among the speakers was Dr Peter McParlin, a consultant research child and educational psychologist, who has first hand experience of living in care, ... www.sthelens.gov.uk/newsarticle.do?articleid=2514...3 - Cached - Similar)

8.Has and is well known as a survivor of being homeless and then a cam gard and consultant in child psychology (A serious misunderstanding - 06/06/2000 - Communitycare.co.uk ... At 16 Dr Peter McParlin was in the remedial class of his Liverpool school, consigned to painting the pupils' toilets. www.communitycare.co.uk/.../a-serious-misunderstanding.html - Cached - Similar)

9.has written for the times and other news papers as social rights campaigner for children etc(Worshiping at the altar of the stars Also featured in this issue, Professor Sonia Jackson and Dr Peter McParlin argue that educational failure is at the heart of many social problems affecting ... www.bps.org.uk/media-centre/press-releases/.../stars.cfm - Cached - Similar)

I think some of-all of- the nine points make him significant in this country.

Any help in technical uploading- mechanically alterring the page-welcome Thanks for help to date

PAUL 07:48, 22 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs)

Hi Chad for give me for backing the 9 points with refs in my last chat message to you- just helps me to realise what is also supportable from the net

he has also done quite afew tv appearances but cant find that on the net

Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs) 07:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look the first chance I get. On a couple side notes: Actually, it's "Ched" rather than Chad. I'm not sure what's up with your sig, but I'll look at that when I get a chance too. — Ched :  ?  15:06, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Ched. You have new messages at Dabomb87's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Dabomb87 (talk) 13:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for making WP:NODRAMA a success!

Thank you again for your support of the Great Wikipedia Dramaout. Preliminary states indicate that 129 new articles were created, 203 other articles were improved, and 183 images were uploaded. Additionally, 41 articles were nominated for DYK, of which at least 2 have already been promoted. There are currently also 8 articles up for GA status and 3 up for FA/FL status. Though the campaign is technically over, please continue to update the log page at WP:NODRAMA/L with any articles which you worked during the campaign, and also to note any that receive commendation, such as DYK, GA or FA status. You may find the following links helpful in nominating your work:

• T:TDYK for Did You Know nominations
• WP:GAC for Good Article nominations
• WP:FAC for Featured Article nominations
• WP:FLC for Featured List nominations
• WP:FPC for Featured Picture nominations

Again, thank you for making this event a success! --Jayron32.talk.say no to drama 02:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry

Hey folks, sorry I haven't done better the last couple days. I'm just not feeling up to snuff lately, but hopefully I can get that "old fart meds" stuff adjusted here soon. — Ched :  ?  02:19, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I've been feeling kinda down recently. I always end up turning to Wikipedia for more human and human interaction. I also post in just about every forum account I have, and e-mail everyone I know just for someone to talk to me. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey TO. Sorry for the delay in getting back to ya here. Been off a couple days, but it's more a physical health thing than any feeling of being depressed or anything. I've been spreading myself a little thin lately, what with work, our local street fair, volunteer work, etc. Had been going on 2 and 3 hours sleep a night for a bit, and I just can't do that anymore; like I used to ... lol. All is good here - and you're always welcome to come talk to me anytime you need a friend too BS with. — Ched :  ?  18:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. I think I've overloaded myself with tasks, however then I think back to WP:NOTIMELIMIT. I really wish to heal past grievances with other editors, including you. However, first I will get Norton Internet Security to FA-Class. After taking a break from editing it, I am back, fresh with ideas. I am finding ways to expand the article I never thought of. I already thought the article was pretty much done two times before. I am using the Google News Archives to track down information about versions prior to 2006 and also to find any notable criticisms. Along that, I have opened a GA review for Microsoft Security Essentials. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL ... I hear you about "overloaded" with tasks! I feel that way myself very often. Past grievances with me? Naaaa. The only time I was even slightly bothered was over some MSAM edits. But I never considered it a big deal. The best of friends don't agree with each other on everything TO. You like Norton, personally, I'm not a big fan. That doesn't mean we have any problems or issues with each other - it just means we don't agree on something. Nothing wrong with that. ;-). I consider you a very good friend, don't worry about having to heal or fix anything with me - we're cool!!! You my bud! I'll take a look at the articles here in the next couple days. If I see anything, I'll let ya know. Cheers buddy — Ched :  ?  03:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I know I was biased towards Norton in my earlier history, however now I realize that Wikipedia is not the place to share opinions and to flamebait other users. Currently, I don't particularly like Norton, and am not using it in favor of MSE. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:42, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Get Macs. Law _{type! snype?} 10:34, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Get linux. What's a virus anyway? --Malleus Fatuorum 11:31, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't know - the Mac OS is built on Unix. Once I thought I had a virus, but it turned out to be a bacterial infection. Law _{type! snype?} 12:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Sure there are Mac and -nix viruses. Just wait until everyone starts thinking -nix platforms are virus-free, and then viruses will be more prevalent. Lol to the above comment. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:21, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

About 60,000 for Windows, vs about 40 for Linux, most of which have never been seen in the wild. See this Register article to understand why you're wrong. --Malleus Fatuorum 13:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

All valid points. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:17, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

← Well, I admit that most of my computers are Windows based - but I do have one Red Hat that I'm going to upgrade to Ubuntu here soon. Most of them have AVG on them, but my test PC just got done with trials of G Data, Nod32 (my fav at this point), and I'm putting Kaspersky on this week. I never had much experience with the Macs (other than a print shop that I worked for years ago) - and since 99% of my clients run MS - I do too. Hey Mal - which distro of Linux do you run? And Law - better check that it's not a STD ... lol. — Ched :  ?  17:39, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Ubuntu, it's excellent. --Malleus Fatuorum 02:50, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Just to add my 2p to the Norton discussion, when Norton really was run by Peter Norton I thought very highly of their products, but following their takeover by Symantec the products became bloated and basically rubbish. Same thing happened when Symantec took over what was the first C++ compiler I ever used, Zortech. --Malleus Fatuorum 02:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ched. I've made some progress recently; you can see it in my sandbox. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:44, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey there TO - looks good. I just read through it, and I think it will improve things a lot. Did you want me to copyedit - or just wait until you move to article? Mal - I'm gonna move this over to your talk - cause I've got questions (then again, when don't I? ... lol) — Ched :  ?  06:11, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, opinions would be great. If there's anything I can do for you, I'd gladly do it. I'm going to rewrite every section up to 2009 because the first couple of times, I left out a lot of stuff just to make it easier on me. I'm also going to redo the "Reception" section. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:55, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Wilhelm Buck

Just to let you know, I've restored Wilhelm Buck, which you deleted, since he was an MP half a century ago and I thought we should have an article on him. I didn't think you'd mind and normally wouldn't have brought it up, but I just saw the bruhaha at ANI about a similar case, so I thought I'd let you know.
Cheers, Amalthea 23:20, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, that's great! I'm trying to get a list of items we can salvage from all this. I'll add the Buck article to my watchlist, and try to add some to it as well. I don't have any "books" on that particular area, but I'll have a look on the net and see if I can help. I just feel bad for the guy who did the mass stub creation - there were some pretty unkind things said over various threads, and all he was trying to do was add content to our project. Thanks for saving one! Best — Ched :  ?  23:28, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply

Thanks for the comment. You need a bit of humor at ANI at times, because some discussions can get quite heated, and if everyone is in a bad mood, editors will end up attacking each other over nonsense instead of trying to resolve the issues that started the discussions in the first place. I've found that when people are in good spirits at ANI, they are less likely to fire at each other and more likely to try and work together to solve their problems.--^{The Legendary}_{Sky Attacker} 23:57, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Drama

You can't wait to get back to ANI can you? Haha. Law _{type! snype?} 03:50, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

LMAO ... What can I say - guilty as charged! Hey, that's where the movers and shakers hang out. ;) — Ched :  ?  04:03, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually though, I kinda enjoyed the "no drama" - there's a lot to do that can make things better with some gnome like work. I'm kinda leaning to getting back to the BLP uncat, and a couple articles I'd like to get to better quality. Who knows, maybe I can a couple more GA or even an FLC going here in the coming months. ;-) — Ched :  ?  04:07, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

NODRAMA Barnstar

		The Anti-Drama Barnstar
		Thank you for participating in The Great Wikipedia Dramaout 2009, avoiding drama for a full 5 days!--The LegendarySky Attacker 04:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Cool ... thanks. I don't have many of those shinny thinies ... lol. ;-) Actually, we should prolly give a TON of these to Royalbroil and Huntster - they're the ones help me keep my focus on such things. ;) — Ched :  ?  04:37, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Everyone did their part for the five days, so I'm trying to go through the list. A lot of names though. You can help award them if you wish. ;)--^{The Legendary}_{Sky Attacker} 04:41, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

German BIO mass delete

Hello! LOL bio mass makes it sound like cow dung! Thanks for that, I have a log of articles I started myself to now go through, a big task. I don't speak much German either, very basic. I just use google translate to confirm but I think one or two sentences are saying or clikc the link on German wikipedia and find the english articles equivalent. The articles will restarted in due course but at present my aim is to add a reference to any which are a problem. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 09:08, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject TRANSWIKI

Hi. In light of recent events and community concerns about the way in which content is transferred I have proposed a new wikiproject which would attempt to address any of the concerns and done in an environment where a major group of editors work together to transfer articles from other wikipedias in the most effective way possible without BLP or referencing problems. Please offer your thoughts at the proposal and whether or not you support or oppose the idea of a wikiproject dedicated to organizing a more efficient process of getting articles in different languages translated into English. Dr. Blofeld ^{White cat} 12:50, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I will take a look. — Ched :  ?  17:42, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Re:

Had a brief shot at fixing it, although my mind may not quite be in gear. I think you missed out some NIC tags near the beginning. :) — neuro^(talk) 14:46, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Neuro, I appreciate your time. Hope life is treating you well ;) — Ched :  ?  19:08, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: Pedro

No, I think he'd be fine with contact from more editors. Feel free to jump in - thanks! (ESkog)^(Talk) 11:47, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for your suport Ched, i'll be working hard.* Delete WP:CRYSTAL. .Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC) Jajajaj, do you think makeing a Simmons family artical could be good =).Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

An artical from the simmons family (Yes Gene Simmons) like the jacksons family do you think it's a good idea .Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:14, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank a lot Ched your a great guy. and i'm not that big of a kiss fan but i like some songs and the show..Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Note followup

Thank you for your kind and supportive words. I only happened across the Gates articles within the last 24 hours or so, when I was talking with another user about the subject vaguely and thought I should find the actual articles. Then I saw CoM's activity and went to ANI to raise the question and set the record straight about whether the topic ban applied. I wasn't really expecting a block, just a warning (like the one I had given him, which I expected him to ignore). So now I've got clarification on all of that, but with any luck it won't come up again. His usual yapping about us being trolls and such is just "poor me syndrome" stuff. He's unblocked now and hopefully will be more careful the next time. Ironically, the reason the subject of Gates came up was in a talk page about the Apollo hoax stuff, which I've been working with for about 3 years. There have been a number of very belligerent users on that page in the past, which taught me a lot about the process of dealing with such users. The most recent staunch hoax believer is a guy from Bulgaria who thinks it was a hoax and has plenty to say about it. Several of us have had fairly sharp words with him, and he back at us. Yet he's been fairly easy to work with, as he doesn't edit war, and doesn't take things personally in the lively debates we've had. Would that CoM were a little more thick-skinned. But I can't make someone else change their stripes. And that's the way it is. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I do understand. I don't think that he realizes how much some of those "troll, pond scum", etc. edits can hurt a person. I don't think it's a deliberate attempt to hurt people, I think he just doesn't realize the impact that words like that can have. In a way, it is very ironic, because I get the impression that so many of his posts are a direct result of being hurt himself. I had some classes over the years, both because of my positions in management, and as a single parent - and there are just certain "trigger words" that should be avoided. I almost wish that there were a "list" of them here that we could point to - but then again, I'd be afraid that it would be used as "fuel" for the "civility police". .... oh, wait, I forgot - I think I'm supposed to be a member of that group ... lol. I really don't like to see people blocked, especially without any kind of warning. I guess if I had noticed the thread earlier, and posted a polite note to his talk page, perhaps it could have been marked resolved before it drifted out of control. The really sad part in all of this? That once an editor starts developing a reputation as a "problem" editor - it takes forever to shed that stigma. On the other hand, a "respected" editor can spiral downhill so fast that it makes ones head spin. Ah well, I guess we just move on from here, and hope things improve. — Ched :  ?  06:23, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

There has been some effort at wikipedia to try to discourage the all-too-casual use of terms like "troll" and "vandal" especially. I had kind of an epiphany about that when GTBacchus talked about it awhile back, and I've cut back on my use of such terms, as they do nothing to help improve the dialogue. Now, if you're dealing with a puppetmaster or an obvious troublemaking IP address or redlink, that's one thing. But throwing those terms at established editors does nothing but run the risk of fanning flames. In the past CoM has leveled some of his invective at what he calls "patrollers", as if keeping a watch on the integrity of wikipedia (and/or on him) was a sin. Being a "patroller" and being a "troll" are hardly the same thing, but I think he uses those terms interchangeably. You may well be right that he himself may have gotten burned in the past. If you get burned, you can learn from it, or you can internalize it and then try to burn others in a like manner. Is it a personal choice? Or do they not really understand what they're doing? Hard telling. I'm certainly not a mind reader, and I also go over the line (even my personal line) from time to time. All we can do is go by behavior, and try to improve things. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

One country we have not heard from on this, I don't think, is the original blocking admin. He took what he considered appropriate action. But I didn't offhand notice him accelerating a wheel war or anything after CoM was unblocked, nor was he very severely chastized for doing the block, so hopefully it's over. I was tempted to mark my ANI thread "resolved", but I did that earlier and it turned out it wasn't really resolved yet. Maybe it will simply get archived tomorrow and dat will be dat. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:41, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree, and I remember watching that conversation with GTB - it gave me a good feeling inside, and confirmed my belief that I was working on a worthwhile project here. I can't speak to the motivations, but time has a way of dispelling many myths here - so we'll see. Hey, I think any rational adult that actually cares about this project is going to have moments of "gee I wish I hadn't typed that". I agree, I have no reason to doubt that Aitias did what appeared to be best at the time. I can also imagine that he would have lifted the block himself if he'd been available, and I'm certain that he would have at least been willing to discuss the matter. Yep, hopefully this little episode has reached its conclusion, but I'm sure there will be another drama unfolding as we speak. Tune in tomorrow for another episode of .... "As the Wiki turns". ;) — Ched :  ?  16:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, there was the usual little ex post facto rant from CoM, calling for blocks on several of us on the grounds that we are violating (unspecified) wikipedia policies. I don't know what policies he was referring to, and he was just annoyed in general, so there was no point in responding directly to that. I figured a good night's sleep would fix it. :) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I noticed that as I headed out last night. How to win friends and influence people eh?... Not! I did recognize the defense mechanism though, and only replied to those items which were directly pointed to me. Hopefully the dawn of a new day will shed a cleaner light on the entire project. ;) — Ched :  ?  17:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

break

Baseball Bugs obsessive stalking and harassment of me has continued to be aproblem. Please don't encourage him. He has no need to discuss me and should work to contribute usefully to the encyclopedia. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:21, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, I can see that it is pointless to revert again. So, I'll attempt to confront the issue head on. If you have evidence of "stalking" and/or "harassment", please provide me the links so I can be on the same page; otherwise, Please stop. I get the fact that you and Bugs won't be having a Sunday brunch and exchanging Christmas cards. But if you want me to look into inappropriate behavior, then please point me in the direction of the infraction. Bugs has gone out of his way on several occasions to defend you, and yet you failed to acknowledge that on several occasions. Tell me how I can help find a resolution to this .... please!. You're both obviously interested in political and current events in the US - has he ever edited a "food" related article that you've worked on? Throw me a bone here CoM, and I'll be more than happy to work on all sides of the matter. — Ched :  ?  18:32, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched I spend my time adding content to the encyclopedia and working cooperatively with good faith editors. If you want to look through his edits and work up diffs on all the times he's stalked and harassed me have at it. The last 24 hours should be instructive enough. If you're unwilling to do so, then at least have the basic courtesy and good sense to stop encouraging him. There's no need for any reconciliation, BB just needs to get over his obsession and fascination with me and to get on with his life. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

CoM, I have looked through his edits in the past. I've seen literally thousands of vandalism reverts. NASA related contributions, and some fantastic sports related work. I've seen 2 years and 35,000 edits dedicated to this project. Look at World Series, Wrigley Field, or those pesky Chicago Cubs. There are dozens of individual players, and stadiums that have had their articles improved by the efforts of BB. Are there posts that have made me cringe? Sure. And I've seen similar patterns on your side as well. If you are going to continue to make accusations of "stalking" or "harassment", then the burden of prof is on you to provide the links. You're saying that I'm encouraging him to stalk and harass you - you couldn't be further from the truth. Do I try to encourage editors here .. hell yes! But I assure you I try to do so in a positive way. I understand that you've been offended. I get that. I really do. And I understand the defensive nature of some of your retorts. I'd even hazard a guess that if we all met up at a bar or a coffee shop, completely unaware of WP, that we could have a hell of a good time. The past is what it is, once text is committed to the web, it never goes away - and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do to change that. Leave the past in the past, learn from it, grow from it, but please don't dwell on it. I think you're both good people, and I respect you both - can we please just stop poking at tigers now. — Ched :  ?  19:01, 29 July 2009 (UTC)re

If he ever apologizes to me for the way he insulted/trashed my efforts and others' to defend wikipedia from WND on the night of March 8/9, then he need never hear from me again (unless in a good way). Either way, I have tried to avoid him in recent weeks, but when I observe him or anyone violating the rules or violating a topic ban, I'm inclined to report it. He does not have the right to tell me what pages to watch or not watch - an I'm not the one on a topic ban, either. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 18:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

March 9/10? ... an article talk page? your talk page? his? AN/I? I wouldn't mind reading through that. — Ched :  ?  19:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

It's on an ANI archive. I have the exact thread captured on my home PC, but I can't put my hands on it right now. It was Sunday night, March 8th, and it had a lot to do with the reason I stopped editing the Obama articles - I got tired of dealing with the POV-pushers like CoM who complained that the article doesn't have enough criticisms. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:06, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Here it is: [9] You may actually find it funny. It wasn't all that funny at the time. To me it was a direct slap in the face, for which he refuses to apologize or acknowledge my feelings in any way. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 19:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm ... OK, I think I found it. On a first skim through, it appears that there were less than sterling posts by multiple editors that night. Yep, I can see why there would be some emotional scars from that. I'll have to give it a more thorough reading, but several points come to mind. To be honest, I tend to agree that much of the political articles lean toward the left. I've also come to realize that our BLP articles are by necessity, "watered down" to some extent. I also have to be fully aware that I too have a very strong POV when it comes to the Obama related topics, but then again, I don't edit them. Let me read through all of this, and some of the relevant links - give me a bit of time to reflect, and I'll try to respond to the best of my abilities here shortly. Right now, I see good and badd on almost all sides of the matter, so I'd rather not attempt to gage the whole of it on a quick impression. — Ched :  ?  19:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I've also invited another editor that I respect to look in on this as well. — Ched :  ?  19:44, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• Ugh. Ched you seem to be missing the point. There's no need to rehash the long history of BB's behavior. He has no need to interact with me or to discuss me. He needs to get over his disturbing fascination with what I'm doing. Stop playing psychologist and encouraging behavior that is not constructive to encyclopedia building. Thank you. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:49, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
  • What I get from CoM, as I got from that infamous night, is that he wants to be able to edit what he wants, when he wants, without any interference. That is NOT the wikipedia way. Although he did succeed in driving me away from the Obama-related articles, there are others watching him. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:02, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• Actually, I'm not missing the point, rather I'm not addressing it at this time. I'd rather step back and focus on "The Big Picture". We have discord and distrust in play. Simply saying "don't type 'CoM'" won't resolve the larger issues. The fact of the matter is this: You both are interested in similar topics, ergo, you will interact on some level, at some point. I'd rather focus on making that as painless and as non-disruptive as possible. Thank you. — Ched :  ?  20:02, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
  • The only topics we have in common are the political articles, which I have largely avoided, in order to avoid interacting with CoM. I only happened across the Gates stuff yesterday by coincidence, and then I asked on ANI whether that was a topic-ban violation or not. Most everyone agreed that it was. I did not call for him to blocked, nor did I think it was necessary. Warning was sufficient. One oddity from the night of the 8th is that someone thought I was doing a good enough job that maybe I should run for admin. Fool that I am, I did. For the first and last time. That was a worthwhile experience. Nothing in connection with CoM has ever been a worthwhile experience, though, which is why I'm trying to stay away from him - but he keeps popping up, and I'll be hanged if I'm going to refrain from reporting him, or anyone, when I catch them evading a block or ban of some kind. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
    • It might be instructive to look at the Obama article from that evening. As I recall, we were warned that WND had issued a "call out the militia" cry, to attack the Obama articles on wikipedia and "correct" them. So a bunch of sleeper accounts and IP's came out of the woodwork and began doing just that - until someone finally saw fit to protect the pages. Actually, rather similar to what happened to the Palin article last September, which I also defended vigorously, and got compliments from Republicans for it, and which I've told CoM about, but that falls on deaf ears. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• Well I'm pleased to admit that I have had some very positive interactions with CoM. I've enjoyed working with him on several occasions. I understand your perspective Bugs, and I agree that nobody should be chased from any area they want to work in - but the nature of our project requires that we all do so in a collaborative manner. The fact of the matter remains: we all care about what we're doing here, we all do our best to have a positive impact, and we are all deserving of being treated in a respectful manner. — Ched :  ?  20:15, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

break 2

• Ideally you're right. If it weren't for that offensive essay he wrote on the night of the 8th, maybe we would not have got off on the wrong foot. Frequent advice I hear here is that if you don't get along, then go edit elsewhere - which is what he keeps telling me, and which I have tried to do. But he does not have the right to exclude me from reading pages about Obama-related figures, especially as he is the one on the topic ban, not me. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• No arguments on that. ;~) — Ched :  ?  20:34, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• One other point. One of his recent talk page comments implies I "stalked" him to the Gates articles. That is not true. I went to the Gates articles because of a discussion I was having with someone elsewhere. I often bookmark an article I've gone to, and then I saw that CoM turned up on it, so I wanted to find out if he was violating has topic ban. I don't think it's appropriate for users to be violating blocks and bans. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:34, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

• As I recall, I had mentioned something about "that Gates guy", and I went looking for the page to find out what his full name was, which shows you how much attention I've paid to that news story. I bookmarked both his article and the article about his arrest, and CoM turned up on both of them, which is why I raised the ANI question. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:35, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

←Actually, I had been following the articles a bit myself. I'll admit, I've trusted some of the news sources more that the WP article for info, but I have read through some of the stuff. It appears that the possibilities of a "sit down" and having a "beer" are becoming very viable options. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the rest of the world could do the same? Given some of the tensions in various "hot spots" on a global level though ... I'm not gonna hold my breath for that one ... lol. ;)

On a side note, I need to run out for a bit - but I'll be back in a couple hours. Hopefully nothing will get any worse here. — Ched :  ?  20:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

It shouldn't, as I have meetings to go to. Break's over. No use lying in the sun getting a suntan. Won't do any good nohow. :) It occurs to me that, especially with the irony that Gates and Crowley are apparently related, they could use this incident as a positive to build on. I am not overly optimistic, because cops will act like cops, and citizens who have an innate distrust of cops will tend to continue that way also. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 20:51, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Bugs, you really need to get over the March thingy. Your yesterday report to ANI reminds me of your report on GTBacchus's ED activity.--Caspian blue 22:38, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Ahhh. Looks like this has pretty much played itself out here then. Kudos to all for keeping a cool head (relatively). I wish I could have helped facilitate a reconciliation, but I can see that that's not going to be likely anywhere in the near future. I'll keep my fingers crossed, and maybe somewhere down the road... . Hopefully everybody got some things off their collective chests that will at least make it easier to move on. Hey there CB, good to see you. Appreciate the help.

Well, I have a FLC that's getting very close, one FAC I want to help with, 2 new editors requesting a little guidance, and there's still several thousand BLP UnCat things to go through. I'd have enjoyed a bit of lying in the sun, but today would have been kinda wet here ... rain and all. Cheers to all. — Ched :  ?  01:53, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

When ol' Caspian weighed in here, I figured it was time to get off this train. CB can be annoying (as a look at the current ANI will indicate) but I'll give him this - he'll always talk to you; he won't slam the door in your face. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 04:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I was kinda miffed at his oppose in my RfA, but as I got to know him better, I'm kinda getting to like the fella. He does bring some very good points to the table quite often. I haven't worked with him on any articles yet, but I'm getting the impression that I might enjoy that. Ya know, other than some common consensus work on the Apollo hoax article, and some help in referencing an old stadium, you and I haven't really worked on a whole lot of article together either. Once I get done with the FLC, and helping with a FAC, and getting a couple DYK things I have on the back burner - we'll have to work on something huh? ;) — Ched :  ?  04:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

In ironic reference to the section heading, that could "make" or "break" us. :) That sounds like a challenge. Maybe you and I and CoM could work together on improving the Lutefisk article. >:) Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 05:43, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Ahhh, I hope someday that can happen. For now, I'm just gonna try to stay out of the way, and not antagonize anyone for a while. Think I'll get back into that "NODRAMA" mindset - and try to work on a few articles. I truly hate to see people get hurt, and perhaps in some small way I've played a part in doing just that. I'm a gonna beeee a goooood boy for a while 0:-) — Ched :  ?  05:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the last time I checked, the lutefisk article was in good shape. But you never know when Sven and Ole might start vandalizing it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 06:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

help Dr McParlin item 3

sorry Ched

Your name-got it confused with the guy who use to be head of samaritans ( I only just found your comment today by having to go all over the place on this site and by chance came across it-so may have missed anyhting else you have written

I found it hard to easily-(or with difficulty-) find a way of replying to your note-in terms of navigation around the site to find the correct reply function

So sorry if this is reply is in the wrong place

 Many  thanks with  the last item you  posted .

I have tried to add the ref for NTAS-with back up support ref

Alas I have eliminated your edit aspect which demonstrated quoting refs as I attempted to add the supporting ref.

I must be wrong but to me- it looks pretty much finsihed-please let me know if and what needs some attention

Again many many thanks for your kind work and help

Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs) 08:13, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look the first chance I get Paul. ;) — Ched :  ?  16:40, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the source

Ched, thank you for helping me in the User:Pedro thy master/Simmons family artical and thanks for makeing it for me. Thanks Ched.Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 11:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

No problem, glad to help. I'll stop by and take a look in a couple days, and if you'd like, I'll even try to work on it a bit. — Ched :  ?  16:42, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Ched. User:Pedro thy master/Simmons family artical and thanks for makeing it for me. Thanks Ched.Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 17:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Ched, i'll continue editing the artical,:D.Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 16:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Barnstar

=) TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 01:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Awww Man, I don't know what to say TO. That is one of the nicest, coolest things I have ever seen. Thank you. I am truly honored and humbled by this. ;) — Ched :  ?  01:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Nah, don't be. You deserved it. I especially appreciated your exceptional copy-edit today. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:17, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That's the coolest barnstar I've yet seen :D — Huntster (t • @ • c) 03:16, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

That's the coolest barnstar that I've ever seen too! Royalbroil 03:34, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I gotta admit, I'm pretty flabergasted here. It does make being here very rewarding, to say the least. ;) — Ched :  ?  03:37, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

What did you think it was initially, judging from the thumbnail and the heading of my post? TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:15, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't sure, and clicked on the pic right away - then I just sat there stunned. Just totally amazed me. ;-) — Ched :  ?  19:20, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

tweeks

Hi thanks a million Ched

Paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paul-leeds (talk • contribs) 16:14, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

No problem, always glad to help. I'll stop by later and see if I can help you fix the signature as well. Then we'll see if we can find some sources for that article. Pleasure working with you. ;) — Ched :  ?  19:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/ThaddeusB

I wanted to take a moment to delivery a personal thank you (not "thank spam" :)) for your involvement in my RfA. (It passed 117-2-7 in case you hadn't seen.) I appreciated that you took the time to write a detailed support statement and your kind words about reasoning skills and calm demeanor brought a smile to my face. As such, your "pile-on" support was much appreciated. I look forward to working with you in the future and to serving the community in my new role.

Thanks again, ThaddeusB (talk) 16:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched, you deserve this

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		put your citation here Pedro thy master (talk) 20:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Hope you like it. Pedro thy master (talk • contribs) 16:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Why thank you Pedro, I really appreciate that. I'm always glad to help out where I can. Hope the article is going well, the last time I looked it had come a long way. I'll have to stop by and check it out again huh? Yep, I really like the Star, thanks buddy. ;) — Ched :  ?  21:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Software Invite

Hello Ched. You have been invited to join WikiProject Software, a WikiProject dedicated to improving the Software-related articles on Wikipedia. You received this invitation due to your interest in, or edits relating to or within the scope of the project. If you would like to join or just help out a bit, please visit the project page, and add your name to the list of project members. You may also wish to add {{User WikiProject Software}} to your userpage and == WikiProject Software Centralized Announcement System == {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Software/Announcement-u}} to the top of your talk page. If you know someone who might be interested, please pass this message onto others by pasting this code into their talk page: == [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Software|WikiProject Software]] Invite == {{subst:Software invite|~~~~}} Thanks, Tyw7  (Talk • Contributions) 22:44, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Ched let me ask oyu something

Ched if an artical about an album that has not been realesed yet but is in progress and has confirmed songs, dose it not deserve an artical. --Pedro thy master (talk) 02:53, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Who confirmed the songs? Is there significant coverage about the upcoming album, or is it just a single article? Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline summarizes notability guidelines. Specifically, what album, I can go check it out. TechOutsider ^{(talk • contribs)} 03:03, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) Normally I would say no, but there are times when it can work. If you read through:

• Wikipedia:TenPoundHammer's Law

it will give you a rough idea. Then take a look at:

• WP:NSONG

which is part of the Wikipedia:Notability (music) guideline - it will give you a good idea.

Basically, it can work ... but only if there are multiple reliable sources that are reporting it. If you're not sure, you can create the article in a sandbox, and work on it until it meets the guidelines - then move it to main space afterwards. If you need a hand creating a sandbox, just let me know what you want to call it, and I'll walk you through that. ;) — Ched :  ?  03:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure TechOutsider would be willing to help as well - he's more likely up on the current music than I am, and he knows how to create sandbox articles too. He's done a ton of work on the Michael Jackson stuff, so he probably has a better idea on what will and won't be accepted. — Ched :  ?  03:08, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Ched sorry for the trobule. --Pedro thy master (talk) 03:13, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Ched. --Pedro thy master (talk) 03:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Daddy Yankee, and the album Daddy Yankee Mundial.

Looks like TO is helping handle this one, drop me a note if you need anything. — Ched :  ?  19:19, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Categories in the wrong article!

Hi Ched. Check this out. It's one of many. You are placing, my mistake, the category in the target article. This category should be added in the redirect and with the {{R from alternative spelling}} template. Thanks and happy editing. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:37, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Clarified @ UT - Oopsie, my bad. ;-( — Ched :  ?  19:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)