Cluracan123

Hello, Cluracan123, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{Help me}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking if shown; this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field with your edits. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Materialscientist (talk) 11:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: Edit a page • Upload and use images • Create your first article Intuitive guide to Wikipedia • Article Creation Wizard Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Help desk: A Wiki Styled page to ask questions on Help directory: A comprehensive list-style help contents page Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons List of policies • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • List of guidelines Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Simplified manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Peer review • Featured content Miscellaneous User pages • Talk pages Awards a registered contributor can achieve and award Clean up: General • Spam • Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Flames and plasma

No. Ionization is very small in most flames, so that they are not affected by magnetic field, which is a sign of plasma. See also cool flame. Regards. Materialscientist (talk) 11:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

look, if you think so, back it up by a reference. Right now the reference given contradicts you. When you write "hot enough" (or worse, "extremely hot" in the plasma article) it looks like it should be a hotter than normal flame. But the article you use as your reference explicitly states candle-flame as plasma!

edit: the reference I'm referring to is the second in the article: Verheest, Frank (2000). "Plasmas as the fourth state of matter". Waves in Dusty Space Plasmas. Norwell MA: Kluwer Academic. p. 1. ISBN 0-7923-6232-2 Cluracan123 (talk) 11:26, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Flame article says "If a fire is hot enough to ionize the gaseous components, it can become a plasma", which is accurate, i.e. not all flames are plasmas. There is no clear threshold when the ionization in flame is high enough for the flame to be called plasma. For example, the plasma article vaguely says "plasma is a state of matter similar to gas in which a certain portion of the particles are ionized". Thus, you'll find many books and scientists calling flames plasma or not [1] (the author of that FAQ).

It might be technically correct, but very misleading as "if a fire is hot enough" makes it look like only special fires (hotter than normal) are plasma, and anyway - it not what's in the given reference. Again, if you think that its correct, add a relevant reference to the article. Right now what you wrote in the article isn't backed by the reference given. At a minimum we should state that there is a disagreement about when a flame is plasma, as it depends on definition (and maybe add a reference stating that).

In addition, like you said all flames have some ionization. So the sentence is actually even factually wrong as "if it is hot enough it can ionize" is wrong. I suggest a compromise: unless you strongly object I'll change the text to: "The flame is hot enough to have some ionized gaseous components, and, according to some definitions, can be considered plasma."

In response to your feedback

Sorry for deleting this. I assumed the feedback was anonymous. Cluracan123 (talk) 12:43, 29 May 2012 (UTC)