Communista

Hannah Wangeci Kinoti moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Hannah Wangeci Kinoti. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because Largely unsourced BLP. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. CNMall41 (talk) 16:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @CNMall41, I've been helping Communista with this bio, and I'm a little confused. Yes, it needs work, which we were planning on doing it, but scores of articles and bios are in the same shape. I don't understand how this bio wasn't "ready for publishing" when others are in the same shape (meaning, needing work) and they aren't deleted or relegated back to draft space. Is it because Communista's a new editor? Their status shouldn't matter when it come to the notability of an article.

Speaking of notability, the article has 16 references. Some of them aren't strictly reliable, but there are enough that are, and we intend to work on that. Therefore, I respectfully request that this article be returned to main space. Thanks, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:35, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

See WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS for an explanation about your comparison to other Wikipedia pages. In the meantime, based on your statement, please read WP:COIN and WP:PAID and make the appropriate disclosure on your userpage.--CNMall41 (talk) 21:14, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@CNMall41, I'll work with Communista about the COI statement. But you didn't answer my question about what makes an article with 16 references largely unsourced and unpublishable. And why we can't place it in main space and continue to work on it there. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 03:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

First thing is first. Editing for pay without disclosure is against guidelines. Once you make the proper disclosure, we can then address the other issues. There is no other route. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:19, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

@CNMall41, Communista is not being paid for working on Kinoti's bio. There's no evidence of that and it's unbelievable that you would just assume it. She didn't know and never met Kinoti; they worked at the same university in Nairobi, but Kinoti during the 1970s and Communista starting in 2019. I will request again that the bio be returned to main space. Kinoti is clearly notable enough and there's no COI as you assert. Today, I'm going to work on it in draft space. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Maybe refer to your own statement of "I'll work with Communista about the COI statement" which is an admission that there is a COI. There is no rationalizing it. --CNMall41 (talk) 06:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

@CNMall41, I made that statement before I got more information. I asked her if she had one, and she told me that she did not. Just look at the facts. Communista began working at the same university where Kinoti worked in 2019; Kinoti died in 2001. We will put a statement on the talk page stating that they worked at the same university, but decades apart and that Communista never met her. I will say it again: Communista is not being paid for working on this bio. We are also working on the sources, something we can do in main space. The problems with this bio are because Communista is a new and unexperienced editor, something we're working on together. Please consider WP:BITE. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Well you will need to excuse me as I was under the believe I was speaking with the editor in question (I did not look close at your signature). If you have addressed the issue already, then no need for me to be involved. --CNMall41 (talk) 22:43, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@CNMall41, I appreciate your apology, and I'm sure Communista will as well. However, we still need to address the original concern: should this article be placed back into article space? Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 02:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Greetings. I appreciate all the efforts and concerns in Hannah Kinoti's article. I have been watching and reading the conversations and of course with a very heavy heart as a novice in Wikipedia. I thank you Christine @Figureskatingfan most sincerely for introducing me to Wikipedia and holding us African new editors into the space. Your support is appreciated. @CNMall41 i appreciate keeping the Wikipedia policies on check. As a new editor, some Wikipedia terms and styles of writing are foreign to me. In spite of the frustrations, it is a learning curve. As @Figureskatingfan explained, which you may have missed, i never met Hannah Kinoti. She died in 2001, and i joined the university, same department in 2019. The department's faculty was purely men and Kinoti survived in the environment in the 1970's upto 2014, when they hired the second female faculty. This intrigued me into digging into Kinoti's work, to see what made her stand out. There are very few Wikipedia editors from Africa, and Kenya to be precise. Wikipedia editing does not give scholars appraisal points, hence no young academic would be interested in doing this, if it were not passion. I am not getting paid, nor am i getting any points from this. Well, all said and done, gatekeeping happens in all spaces. I pray for grace to continue editing, and plea for a lenient judgement. I continue working with @Figureskatingfan to learn what is expected, and align Kinoti's article with your standards. I thank you. Communista (talk) 07:20, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

If this were anything but a biography I would say it would be fine to move. My concern is that there is a large portion of the draft that is not sourced. This needs to be removed or cited. Other than that, you are an experienced editor so I will leave it up to you to evaluate the notability when you verify the sources that are supporting content. So, its in your hands at this point. --CNMall41 (talk) 18:26, 10 July 2024 (UTC)