Davidcowell42

Holiday Extras

You forgot to mention that you work for the company. see WP:PAID for some guidelines. See also WP:BAI for older and more pertinent ones. It is, and always has been, a Bad Idea to create an article on your employer. Guy (Help!) 09:14, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Guy

I don't work for Holiday Extras although I did retire from there 11 years ago (I am 69) and have since involved myself in community matters (see http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/ContactAndTrustees.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1136479&SubsidiaryNumber=0&TID=3537673 for me appearing as a Trustee of the Chichester Hall and Sandgate Community Trust). I also often tilt at windmills regarding local injustices etc. When I heard that you had deleted the Holiday Extras' submission I thought that was wrong as they are a force for good in the community. I do get the Wikipedia philosophy and understand that the original submission was based on their own revelations but I have addressed that with the resubmission so I really hope you will permit it entry.

Do ask me any questions if further clarification is needed.

Best wishes

David

Your submission at Articles for creation: Holiday Extras (March 13)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by DGG was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Holiday Extras and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
• You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DGG ( talk ) 18:07, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Holiday Extras (March 15)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SwisterTwister was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Holiday Extras and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
• You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

SwisterTwister talk 20:04, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi

On the Beach which is a travel company has the following:

This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. Please help improve it by removing promotional contentand inappropriate external links, and by adding encyclopedic content written from a neutral point of view. (April 2017) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)

Can you explain how that is allowed to remain on the site whereas my Holiday Extras site was removed?

Thank you for your time.

David Davidcowell42 (talk) 14:23, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Holiday Extras has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Holiday Extras. Thanks! SwisterTwister talk 22:44, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Reply

User:Jimfbleak

Hi Jim, Many thanks for your explanation. Fortunately I kept a copy of the entry so I will incorporate the changes and resubmit. I was a director of the company during its formative years and used to lecture on it to sixth formers and college students doing business studies in my home county of Kent (UK). I retired eleven years ago and have no pecuniary interests in the company now but I fear if this corporate history isn't recorded it will be lost.

Speak soon I am sure

David

Davidcowell42 (talk) 16:37, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for email. following its rejection by experienced editor SwisterTwister and nomination for speedy deletion by admin DGG I deleted your article because

• it did not provide adequate independent verifiable sources to enable us to verify the facts and show that it meets the notability guidelines. Sources that are not acceptable include those linked to the company, social media, press releases and other sites that can be self-edited, blogs, websites of unknown or non-reliable provenance, and sites that are just reporting what the company claims or interviewing its management. Much of the text is unreferenced, and of the sourced text, several refs do not meet our criteria or do not support what you claim, such as "award winning" for the building.
• I'm not convinced of notability. To show notability you need hard verifiable facts such as the number of employees, turnover or profits.
• it was written in a promotional tone. Articles must be neutral and encyclopaedic.

• The tone is unencyclopaedic, with the entire first paragraph not even mentioning the company, instead presenting your opinions on the industry.
• You refer throughout to "Gerry" and others by first name, unencyclopaedic and non-neutral
• a few of many examples of unsourced claims presented as fact include: It is always enlightening therefore to look at success and share the lessons...One company that was founded in 1983 is part of the 10%... award winning office... he did have and has that intuitive flair that makes the entrepreneur such a unique and fascinating entity.—it's an extended plug for the company

• You have edited no other articles, refer to the owners throughout by their first names, and write about decisions from a point of view that suggests a company insider. If you have a conflict of interest when editing this article, you must declare it. If you work directly or indirectly for the company, or otherwise are acting on its behalf, you are very strongly discouraged from attempting to write an article at all. If you are paid directly or indirectly by the company you are writing about, you are required by the Wikimedia Terms of Use to disclose your employer, client and affiliation. You can post such a mandatory disclosure to your user page at User:Davidcowell42. The template {{Paid}} can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form: {{paid|user=Davidcowell42|employer=InsertName|client=InsertName}}. If you are being compensated, please provide the required disclosure. Note that editing with a COI is discouraged, but permitted as long as it is declared. Concealing a COI can lead to a block. Please do not edit further until you respond to this message.

Despite the advice you have been given, this article is as unencyclopaedic and promotional as ever, and you may have an undeclared COI. i am not minded to undelete since this article has been reviewed numerous times by experienced editors and another admin other than myself. I've pinged the two most involved editors in case they wish to comment further Jimfbleak - talk to me? 09:52, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

I deleted Draft:Holiday Extras because it wasn't a draft. If you want me to see a message, post it on my talk page. You can alternatively leave a message on this page, and I will know you have done so if you start it with my user name, User:Jimfbleak and sign it with four tildes ~~~~ when you post it.
As I said, above unless the two editors I pinged above disagree, I'm not inclined to recreate the deleted material. That doesn't stop you rewriting from scratch, since the article isn't yet protected against recreation. I see now that you used to be with the company, so you have a COI which you must declare on the talk page of any article, {{COI editnotice}}. Furthermore, if you still have a financial interest in the company such as shares or a pension, or any other gain as defined above, you must make the mandatory declaration I've indicated in my previous message Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:12, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your response above. Note that it's only chance that I saw the message, since you didn't link my user name [[User:Jimfbleak]] so the ping didn't work. You will still need to add the {{COI editnotice}} tag to the article talk page, but you don't need to make the paid editor declaration. You will appreciate that articles about companies and products are treated with great suspicion, and I block several editors every day for obvious spamming, so that's why you are getting a hard time. Please read my first message carefully before reposting, and write as if you were a neutral observer, not a company insider. If you have any queries, let me know Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:48, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

I've revoked your talk page access for the duration of the block since you persist in spamming and edit warring here. You can contact me through the email link on my user page, but note that I will be away for much of next week Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:39, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for email. I blocked you because you repeatedly posted promotional material on your talk page, which is only intended for messages, and you edit warred when I removed it. If you want to create a draft do so here. I'll unblock you shortly, but please use the draft space and don't attempt to post contentious material on your talk page. bear in mind that if your draft doesn't follow the guidelines I've indicated above, it's likely to be deleted again Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

more

Some new problems.

• Your COI declaration should be on the article talk page, not as part of the article
• You need to use standard formatting, without the fancy blue and italicised headings. Note that Holiday Extras, as the topic of the article, should be bolded only at first use and nothing else should be bolded at all
• Your refs are bare urls, which you must format, and many are not independent of you or your company. Much of the text is unsourced still, or lacks independent third-party verification

Jimfbleak - talk to me? 06:00, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello Jimfbleak

Thanks for your response. The first two I can remedy easily the last one I would like to have a meaningful discussion with you about. Before then I need to retrieve my last submission but cannot seem to locate it. Can you help please?

Best wishes

David

Davidcowell42 (talk) 06:47, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

I won't necessarily see your messages here unless start them with my user name, User:Jimfbleak and sign with four tildes ~~~~ when you post it. You can alternatively leave a message on my talk page. Your draft is linked on my talk page too. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:28, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

User:Jimfbleak

Hi

Thanks for your comments to which I reply below:

Your COI declaration should be on the article talk page, not as part of the article

Done

You need to use standard formatting, without the fancy blue and italicised headings. Note that Holiday Extras, as the topic of the article, should be bolded only at first use and nothing else should be bolded at all

Done

Your refs are bare urls, which you must format,

Done

and many are not independent of you or your company. Much of the text is unsourced still, or lacks independent third-party verification

All the references used are independent of me and the company and are from independent third parties. I have provided sources wherever possible and I am not aware of any statement that could be seen as commercially inspired.

There are 5,500,000 businesses in the UK of which 99% are small and medium sized according to the Government's business statistics:

For Holiday Extras to be chosen repeatedly as one of the top 100 by the Sunday Times I believe gives the company and its history a nobility worthy of being included in an on-line encyclopedia.

A list of the largest companies taken from the Sunday Times in the UK appears in Wikipedia .

I would ask that the same is extended to the Holiday Extras' story to provide balance and a source of learning material for sixth formers and college students.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes

David

Davidcowell42 (talk) 13:51, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

More

Although you started your message with my user name, you didn't link it through User:Jimfbleak so it didn't ping me, you need to link my user name, or use {{u|Jimfbleak}} and sign your message for the ping to work.

Your draft appears to be going backwards, you now have no references at all(!), just a string of unformatted external links scattered through the text. You seem to have made up your own heading style, which I've fixed per WP:MOS. If your links are intended to be references put them in the the text following the fact each supports using <ref>[url description]</ref>. Then {{reflist}} at the end will automatically generate a numbered list. See Tesco for an example of a company article, WP:MOS for formatting and Wikipedia:Citation templates for better formatting of refs Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:43, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

{{u|Jimfbleak}}

Hi

Thanks for your advice.

In your previous comments you said that Your refs are bare urls, which you must format..... so I went to your help page at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:URL and used the third suggested form of external link syntax, obviously incorrectly, so I have changed them back to how they were i.e. <ref> etc.

Thanks for your attention to this and I look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes

David

Davidcowell42 (talk) 07:26, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

{{u|Jimfbleak}

Hello

When do think I could move the Holiday Extras entry to go live please?

Best wishes

David

Davidcowell42 (talk) 18:34, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

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I think you could use the same licence as File:Tesco Logo.svg since it's a simple shape with words Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:18, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Image without license

Unspecified source/license for File:Holida Extras logo.svg

Thanks for uploading File:Holida Extras logo.svg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. Even if you created the image yourself, you still need to release it so Wikipedia can use it. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you made this image yourself, you can use copyright tags like {{PD-self}} (to release all rights), {{self|CC-by-sa-3.0|GFDL}} (to require that you be credited), or any tag here - just go to the image, click edit, and add one of those. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

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User: Jimfbleak

Good morning

Can you point me in the direction I need to take to turn the Holiday Extras page live please?

Best wishes

David

Davidcowell42 (talk) 09:04, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Unspecified source/license for File:Holiday Extras logo.svg

Thanks for uploading File:Holiday Extras logo.svg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. Even if you created the image yourself, you still need to release it so Wikipedia can use it. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you made this image yourself, you can use copyright tags like {{PD-self}} (to release all rights), {{self|CC-by-sa-3.0|GFDL}} (to require that you be credited), or any tag here - just go to the image, click edit, and add one of those. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

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More

Your claim to have permission is invalid because you don't have an OTRS ticket to prove it. I've changed the licence to non-copyrightable and removed the tag. If that's challenged, you can still use the logo as WP:Fair use I've fixed all but one of the refs, you can sort that manually. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:25, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

User:Jimfbleak

Many thanks for your help; much appreciated.

I'll check the reference.

Best wishes

David

Davidcowell42 (talk) 05:42, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

User:Jimfbleak

Good morning

I have asked Holiday Extras for the necessary permissions and, understandably perhaps, they are putting it in front of their solicitors.

I read this at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Logos:

Copyright-free logos

Although most logos are non-free images and should be treated as such, there are three common cases where a logo will be copyright-free:

Lastly, a logo is not eligible for copyright if it consists entirely of simple geometric shapes, or a simple combination of shapes and text.

also applies to these, provided the image remains fairly simple overall. See, for instance File:Best Western logo.svg.

Is that relevant please? The Best Western example is very like the Holiday Extras' one.

Your submission site says it will take 72 days to OK the approval and I was wondering if we could progress the Holiday Extras' entry without the logo and then put it in place when I have secured the qualifying approval?

Your views valued and appreciated as always.

Best wishes

David

Davidcowell42 (talk) 11:23, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

David, if you look back to my 4 June message, I've already said that, you just need that licence and a link to your source Jimfbleak - talk to me? 12:27, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Holiday Extras logo.svg

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File:Holiday Extras logo.svg listed for discussion

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Nomination of Holiday Extras for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Holiday Extras is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Holiday Extras until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. DGG ( talk ) 18:32, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Davidcowell42. You have new messages at Northamerica1000's talk page.
Message added 03:30, 29 November 2017 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:30, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Userfication

Per discussion on my talk page, Holiday Extras has been userfied to User:Davidcowell42/Holiday Extras. As stated earlier on my talk page, after working on the content, if you want to publish it back in main (article) namespace, I recommend that you submit it to Articles for creation, where your submission can be reviewed. An easy way to do this is to place {{Userspace draft}} atop the draft page and then select the "Submit your draft for review" link. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:55, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:HolidayExtras-logo-tag.png

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Your email regarding Davidcowell42/Holiday Extras

Hi Davidcowell42, thanks for your email regarding your deleted subpage. In the interests of transparency, I'll reply here. I'll clarify first of all that I did not delete the page; that was an administrator, CambridgeBayWeather, so your first move is to ask them. However, I will tentatively suggest that it was because you moved a user page into an article, which resulted in a clearly unencyclopaedically-titled page.

Further, I would hazard a guess that unless you have drastically re-written it from when I last looked at the user page a few days ago, it may also have been deemed both unencyclopaedic in content (lots of massive, very colourful pie charts, I seem to remember?—just one possibility) and rather promotional in tone. That may also have contributed to its deletion I'm afraid. I did, of course, remove (not delete—it's still in the history) the redirect; it was by then a dead link and not going anywhere, as the page it linked to had been deleted. I hope this clears things up a little for you! Feel free to ping me, if I can help further. Cheers, ——SerialNumber54129 14:56, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi Serial Number 54129

Thanks for your explanation; it is much appreciated. When I first posted the article the editor said that the images had to be in .svg so I changed all those accordingly. No mention of other matters that needed addressing. I see many pages on Wikipedia where the author is given opportunities to correct issues. I see statements such as:

"This article or the following section is not adequately equipped with supporting documents (for example, individual proofs ). The data in question are therefore possibly soon removed. Please help Wikipedia, by researching the information and inserting good evidence". 

Why could I have not been given the opportunity to put things right rather than perfunctory deletion? The graphic representations are significant but I could have sized them down.

Any help appreciated.

Best wishes

David

Davidcowell42 (talk)

CambridgeBayWeather

Hi CambridgeBayWeather

Can I ask you the same question as I asked Serialnumber: 54129 above?

Many thanks

David

Davidcowell42 (talk)

It was tagged for deletion. I looked it over and it seemed somewhat un-encyclopedic and promotional. The references were not really discussing the company as such. It looks to me as if you have a Wikipedia:Conflict of interest but haven't declared it. If you want it back in your user space to work on let me know. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 17:22, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

CambridgeBayWeather

Thanks for your reply. Yes please to your putting the article back in my user space, thank you. There really isn't a conflict of interest. I was a director of Holiday Extras a decade or more ago when I retired. I used to give talks to business study students about the organic and acquisitional growth of the company and it was well received to the point that the educational institute have asked me if I could still do the talk. That isn't practicable so I thought I'd put the information on Wikipedia. My original submission was deleted for the same reasons you give above so obviously my attempt to make the data available has not worked. Any advice would be welcomed but not expected. Best wishes David

Davidcowell42 (talk)

I've put it at User:Davidcowell42/Holiday Extras. Hope that works. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 03:48, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

October 2018

Please do not use Wikipedia to promote businesses. Wikipedia is not a trade directory. If you want to list a company for potential customers to find, please consider alternative outlets. Thank you. Polyamorph (talk) 10:26, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Polyamorph

Thank you for your comment Polyamorph. Earlier in this page another editor says "The references were not really discussing the company as such" which contradicts your claim that it is promotional unlike say, the Virgin Trains page, which is and is on the site unscathed as are many others. I explained above what I was trying to achieve so I'll not repeat it and I accept the constructive criticism of the editor who says that the graphics are un-encyclopedic so I have reduced their size to those that appear on the Wikipedia page on pie charts. I would really appreciate someone explaining why the article in its current form is promotional and Virgin Trains isn't. Thank you in hope.

Davidcowell42 (talk)

Davidcowell42 (talk)

This is what you have written in your "article" This entry on Wikipedia[8] will be used to make that research available to educational institutes and the media. Holiday Extras is happy to help business study students with their research into corporate growth etc. There is no charge for this service but an acknowledgement of source (Holiday Extras on Wikipedia) would be appreciated. If you have any questions please do email the author at david@davidcowell.net. You can also learn about Holiday Extras' origins and growth here. This is promotional, unencyclopaedic, and against policy. You have a clear conflict of interest, which is also against policy. I suggest you stop trying to promote your product before you find yourself blocked. Polyamorph (talk) 11:18, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

@CambridgeBayWeather: I would urge you to delete this material again, and prevent this promotional unencyclopaedic mess re-surfacing on wikipedia. Polyamorph (talk) 11:21, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Holiday Extras (December 1)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by CNMall41 was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Holiday Extras and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Holiday Extras, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{db-self}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
• You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

CNMall41 (talk) 18:37, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Davidcowell42! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! CNMall41 (talk) 18:37, 1 December 2018 (UTC)