User talk:Deb/Archive 4

Survey

I am conducting a survey on Wikipedia and would like to invite you to participate in the study. I've posted a message on wikien-l, but here is the link again in case you are not subscribed to that list-serv. Thanks a lot for your time! --Mermes 02:03, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Richard III

As a much more experienced editor who's already involved with the page, would you please take a look at the edits recently made to [Richard III] by 204.9.11.123? Most of it looks really POV and shouldn't be there, but personally I don't want to just revert the lot - for instance, I don't see why the text should read ('alleged half-) brother', either. Thanks awfully. Candle-ends 20:22, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

St Brides Major edit

Hi sorry if I'm messing up your talk page (feel free to delete this if it is in the wrong place). The village of St Brides Major really is spelt without the apostrophe, its like the "Barons Court" tube station in London, over time the apostrophe just dropped off. Please check the village website (linked to in the article) if you need confirmation. BTW how did you change the page title? (just out of interest so I can put it back) Jack-McLangley 18:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Google is weird, when you search for "St Bride's Major" it includes all the search results for "St Brides Major" as well, that's why it has more results. Google usually ignores apostraphes and commas in its searches. Good call on the whole St / St. thing, that was just me being a n00b... Jack-McLangley 13:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #2

Barnstar Brigade The Barnstar Brigade is a new program aimed at giving more very deserving yet unappreciated users barnstars. It will officially start on 2006-04-09, but signing up is encouraged before this date: "Here in Wikipedia, there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go un-appreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go un-noticed. Sadly, these editors often leave the project. As Esperanzians, we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. A project the size of Wikipedia has thousands of editors, so there are plenty of people out there who deserve recognition, one just has to find them. The object of this program is not to flood editors with Barnstars, but to seek out people who deserve them, and make them feel appreciated." Stress Alerts The Stress alerts program aims at identifying users who are stressed, alerting the community of thier stress and works in tandem with the Stressbusters at trying to identify causes of stress and eliminating them. Information Welcome to the second issue of the new format Esperanza Newsletter - we hope you still like it! This week, it was delivered diligently by our new dogsbody. MiszaBot (run by Misza13): any execution complaints should go to him. Content comments should be directed at the Esperanza talkpage. Thanks!

The last AC meeting (full log) The next elections: Approval voting as before and, also as before, an previous leadership member can run. Please submit your name for voting in the relevant section of this page. Voting starts on 2006-04-23 and ends on 2006-04-30. There will be three places up for grabs as KnowledgeOfSelf is leaving Wikipedia. Please see the previously linked page for full details. The Code of Conduct is now ready for extensive discussion! Specific comments should go to the Code of Conduct talk page, discussion of having one at all should be directed to the main Esperanza talk page. The current process for accepting proposals for new programs has been deemed fine. All Advisory Council members and the Admin Gen are to endevour to be bold when viewing discussion. If they feel that consensus has been reached, they will act accordingly. A plea from the editor... The propsed programs page is terribly underused! Please leave any comments, good or bad, on the page, to help us determine the membership's thoughts on the ideas there. Signed... Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, KnowledgeOfSelf and FireFox 19:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello

I haven't seen you around much, but when I was reading the mailing list posts from 2003 I noticed you were nominated for sysop like a week before me. So hi :) — Ilyanep (Talk) 14:33, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Yep. So how's everything going for you on the 'pedia? — Ilyanep (Talk) 14:37, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Old Skool Esperanzial note

Since this isn't the result of an AC meeting, I have decided to go Old Skool. This note is to remind you that the elections are taking place now and will end at 23:50 UTC on 2006-04-29. Please vote here. Thanks. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Bot.

Hi, Deb. It's me Daniel5127. I have been using Wikipedia since March. 3. 2006. Ahh, I have a some question of Wikipedia. As I read all of Wikipedia Policy, It's little bit hard to understand because there are many policies more than I know. So, Let me ask you about Wikipedian Bot. So, What is the job for Wikipedian Bot? I personally think that Wikipedian Bots know all of languages(English, Italian, Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Portugese, French etc..), and cleaning some messy things. Does Wikipedian bots care about vandalism? I have seen some article was bad articles, but Wikipedian bots doesn't care about it. That's why I want to know more about Wikipedian bots. Ok? Please, Explain to me Why does wikipedian bots ID end with BOt. Cheers!!!! Daniel5127, 01:21, 30 April 2006(UTC)

The "Canadian Royal Family"

Any opinions on whether there exists such a thing as a Canadian Royal Family? See Talk:Court Circular Astrotrain 15:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Miskin

Sorry but I don't know what you're talking about. My name comes from Prince Myshkin. Miskin 20:38, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Category:Novel sequences

Hello. I am soliciting your input in the current discussion on Category:Novel sequences, since you intially created the category. MakeRocketGoNow 00:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Edward Sutton, 5th Baron Dudley

I have edited your article on Edward Sutton, 5th Baron Dudley. In doing so, I have removed some text that you wrote (placing it instead on the discussion page of that article). I do not want this to be regarded as vandalism, but what you wrote is not the accepted view. If Ann Sutton whom you mention was indeed the only child of the marriage the title Lord Dduley would have descended to her and her issue. Feel free to restore this text, incorporating it alongside what I ahve written, but if you do so, please make sure you cite your sources. If this is from (or derived from) parish registers, I would have thought it would be sufficient to refer to the parish and date in the text. If it is from a published work, please add that to the 'further reading'. If Lord Dudley is indeed your ancestor, you have some more intersting ones than I do! Peterkingiron 23:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I made the change, as indicated above, but left the text deleted on a discussion page. It may be right; it may not be - I do not know. I thought you were its author and therefore told you. I am happy to leave the matter as it stands. Peterkingiron 16:55, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #3

Administrator Coaching The Administrator Coaching program is a program aimed at preparing Wikipedians for Adminship or helping them understand the intricacies of Wikipedia better. Recently, changes have been made to the requirements of coachees. Please review them before requesting this service. This would be something like the Welcoming Committee, but for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. Some might like suggestions about how to learn vandal patrol, or mentoring on taking an article to featured status, or guidance with a proposal they plan to make at the Village Pump, for example. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins. Stressbusters The Stressbusters are a subset of Esperanza aiming to investigate the causes of stress. New eyes on the situation are always welcome! Note from the editor As always, MiszaBot handled this delivery. Thank you! Also, congratulations go to Pschemp, Titoxd and Freakofnurture for being elected in the last elections! An Esperanzial May to all of the readership!

The last AC meeting (full log) Posting logs of the Esperanza IRC channel are explicitly banned anywhere. Violation of this rule results in deletion and a ban from the channel. A disclaimer is going to be added to the Esperanza main page. We are humans and, as such, are imperfect. Various revisions have been made to the Code of Conduct. Please see them, as the proposal is ready to be ratified by the community and enacted. All members will members to have to re-confirm their membership after accepting the Code of Conduct. Referendums are to be held on whether terms of AC members should be lengthened and whether we should abolish votes full stop. Admin Coaching reform is agreed upon. Signed... Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, Pschemp and Freakofnurture 20:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey!!

Deb, I believe you wrongfully deleted Wikkidevil(my)'s new, easy-on-the-eyes article on amphibians. Before you delete it, please tell me why. Or at least read my page, which you can find at User:WordPainter.

Marcus Duvall

I was in the middle of the article. Now I have to do it all over again.--SGCommand (talk • contribs) 11:56, 10 May 2006 (UTC) I was in a hurry --SGCommand (talk • contribs) 11:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Pretenders Ernst August

Please see Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles)#Ernest Aug. and constibute to the discussion there. I look forward to people assessing UE:should English be used in all these cases and how; would any sort of numeral be acceptable; what are the correct ordinals anyway; and Is there any other sustainable way to disambiguate these systematically. Shilkanni 11:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Years in Wales

• I'm sorry- I will add back in if you wish. Perhaps I should have checked first! Astrotrain 12:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Quit (band)

I would really like to know some more information about this band. They seem really cool! Are they on myspace. Are there any links you can provide? - user:xsxex

Women's suffrage: Grand merging and reforms!

Hello there, please discuss and contribute your opinion at Women's suffrage#Grand merging and reforms!. Best, __ Maysara 20:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

consort naming

You possibly want to contribute your opinion, as things related to e.g Joan of Kent (which you moved) have come up in discussion of naming conventions regarding royal titles. Shilkanni 11:10, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Augusta of Saxe-Gotha

Deb;

With all due respect, I was not in doubt at all. The current name, which you moved it to, is against current Wikipedia naming conventions. Until they are amended in any way, the article is properly titled Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha. Please consider moving it back rather than making me go through the process when the guaranteed outcome (as shown with other non-consorts) will be Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha. Respectfully, Charles 19:45, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Please note: Duchess Cecilie of Mecklenburg-Schwerin, which was moved and then moved back because it conforms to the naming conventions. Other than historically signifigant individuals greatly known by any other form, "Name" of "Place/Designaiton" is strictly for sovereigns and their consorts, as outlined in the naming conventions. I foresaw no controversy because such controversy is for discussion at the naming conventions. I was only applying the standing rule. I will gladly change the links to Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha. Charles 19:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

You cannot cite all other Princesses of Wales as reason for your way of naming Augusta. Of the Princesses of Wales, all that were queens are named appropriately. Joan of Kent is so named because of mediaeval irregularites and Diana, Princess of Wales is so named because it was her surname. Camilla is yet to be queen. Augusta never became queen nor was she the ruler of Saxe-Gotha. Her name goes against naming conventions for her era, when titles were laid down (in her case, a princess with the addition title duchess in Saxony). Charles 20:04, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

There is absolutely no need for hostility. I think you need to re-read the naming conventions. I have brought the issue up with Jtdirl, who has stepped in in the past without prompting to enforce the naming conventions. A RM in this case is needlessly long, may result in needless arguing but would result in a move. Given that, I will look elsewhere to have the guidelines enforced. Charles 20:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Jtdirl's post was in reference to moves against convention. Charles 23:07, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Hostility isn't fitting behaviour for one who wants to be taken seriously. Yes, I have been warned for moves in the past by Jtdirl. Those moves were moves not covered by guidelines at all and in my early days at Wikipedia. I've learned quickly and now am sought out for advice and knowledge on royals here, even by Jtdirl. When you've run out of things to stay, refrain from posting on my page about irrelevant fragments of the past. It's just not nice. Charles 23:14, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I am growing weary of blame-shifting and logging on to see attempted "last words". If you need to get after people for moving royals around, you might want to check out Shilkanni's (no offense to him/her) move history, which contains moves that have not been discussed and that really don't make sense. If you can do that, I will be more forgiving. Charles 20:10, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

GEE, THANKS, CHARLES!!!

Stop fighting, you two

Hey, you two. Cool it. You are two of the best contributors in this area on WP. I admire the work of both of you. Deb, Charles is in now way another arrigo, but a serious hardworking wikipedian. And Charles, Deb is one of best contributors on this issue. You two seem to have misinterpreted each other. You may disagree on this issue but overall you are both on the same side as regards quality and accuracy on royal pages. I can vouch for the intergrity of each for the other. So please stop fighting. We need the good guys'n'gals to work together. FearÉIREANN\^{(caint) 21:02, 29 May 2006 (UTC)}

Hugh Price Hughes

I see the reformatting from a timeline structure into a paragraph, but I disgaree with it. I feel a timeline is often, nay usually, far clearer than a paragraph, especially if, as one hopes, additional items of merit are introduced by other editors. I'm asking if you would reconsider the chmange of format. Fiddle Faddle

I do say clearly on my talk page in the recognised manner with a banner at the head that I will respond here. So I am copying your reply and replying to it here. Talk spread across mutliple talk pages is unreadable.

I have read the Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies) and cannot see the guidance you speak of. Of course this may be an oversight on my part. I am very happy to be pointed to the correct place. But I see currently nothing that says that it was in any way incorrectly formatted. So please show me where I should be looking. If it is not there, may I suggest again, that clarity is best served by a timeline, and ask you to reconsider your edit. Fiddle Faddle 21:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Habits can be changed and should be on request, please.

There is a great deal of difference between a timeline structure and bullet points. You are arguing now for something different. Since the item you refer to is not present in the guidlelines you speak of first, I ask you again to reconsider your edit. I have looked at biography articles with and without a timeline structure. Since we editl, ideally, for both posterity and clarity, i suggest we always work in that direction, especially with clarity. Creating a timeline for a biography is both logical and clear. Without it there is the gravce danger fo confusion by a well meaning editor that is hard to put right. Fiddle Faddle 22:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea why you do not accede to the simple and standard request that I make on my talk page, Nor why when I bring the thread here that you edit them out. But it is your talk page. Regrettably this makes the talk impossible for people to follow, which is, presumably, why Help:Talk page#How to keep a two-way conversation readable was created.

I have read all the versions of Hugh Price Hughes back to the initial creation. Every article has the dates in the first paragraph. So, regrettably, you are incorrect in your assertion that they were not present. Your arguments about bullet points are not relevant since they are not, per se, bullet points, but are, as I have said before, a timeline. Your pointing me to guidelines that do not contain the data that you state is present was not wholly helpful.

I will look at your exhortations both to edit the article and to pose the timeline thoughts in the guidelines, and I thank you for those suggestions. Fiddle Faddle 22:44, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It is not going to turn into an edit war. Why should it? The article in question is a stub. As such it will be interesting to watch how it develops. There is not a great deal of meat in the section which will naturally contain paragraphs of prose. That's ok for now, though I would expect the future will mean that other editors take that section and shake it. The Chronology section is not what Wikipedia means when it describes a bullet. It has the format of a bulleted list, yes, but the elements are not bullets per se. Instead they are spine points on the time line of Mr Hughes's life. Thus i believe firmly it is both within the guidelines and potentially an excellent article. What will be wrong is if future editors who flesh this stub out only add dates with no commentary. Under those circumstances one would desire more meat on the bones.

Your removal of duplicate links I am grateful for. I failed to spot them all. The article overall, albeit as a stub, is probably better from our joint attentions. Unless we can either of us improve the content "paragraphicly" let's leave it alone and watch it develop.

Fiddle Faddle 13:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Huw Garmon

Hi Deb. I reverted your revert at the above page as Richard Hughes (historian) has already been established from the disambig page Richard Hughes. Hope that's okay - Ali-oops^✍ 12:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry - my mistake. I've reverted now (and see you've already got to the dab page!). Thanks again - Ali-oops^✍ 18:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

How Are You?

Greetings, Deb!
I've been away for about six weeks. I am pleased to see some of my articles have been patrolled in my absence (e.g. Katie Holmes). Haven't heard from you in a while. How are you doing? PedanticallySpeaking 16:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow on your vacation. How far a trip would the abbey be from you? Did you go via a Channel Tunnel? PedanticallySpeaking 14:56, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Glad you had a nice trip. For some time I have been working on revisions to the Bricker Amendment article. I finally posted it and have a PR at Wikipedia:Peer review/Bricker Amendment/archive1. I'd welcome your comments. I know you won't like all those references, but I'm hoping to get it as an FA and those voters want lots of footnotes. PedanticallySpeaking 16:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

A short Esperanzial update

As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.

As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Wikipedia:Esperanza/June 2006 elections.

Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, —Celestianpower ^háblame 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Elizabeth Harwood piece

Thank you for setting my stuff in the right order. I shall try to remember the proper layout in future. Tim riley 20:47, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Category:Welsh-speaking people debate

In response to your post on my talk page, I think that this category should not be deleted, and would be prepared to join the debate, if I you could provide a link, i'm not having much luck finding it. As Cymraeg is a minority language, It's important that all famous speakers should be grouped together in a category for reference.GarethRhys 12:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

See also my posting on User talk:Chicheley. -- Picapica 19:24, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Please don't assume that people who disagree with you are ignorant

I am familiar with the minority language issue and it has been addressed by other users who have voted delete. Compelling reasons have been given for the deletion of all the categories. Category:Welsh language activists would arguably be acceptable, but a language category is POV as it asserts that speaking the Welsh language is a defining characteristic of every such person, and is by definition more important to each person placed in it than speaking English - something which will be wrong in some cases. It is a safe assumption that Welsh language advocates will add such a category at every opportunity, but other people are likely to be too indifferent or compromised by political correctness to take anyone out, leading to overuse of a category which is essentially propagandistic. Chicheley 10:31, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Lloyd-Jones

Please see Talk:Martyn Lloyd-Jones#Presbyterian?. --Flex 13:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Please don't assume that people who disagree with you are ignorant (2)

This user repeated the above discourtesy after being asked to me more careful, and should therefore be assumed to believe it to be acceptable conduct. Chicheley 14:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Welsh Cat

I see your point upon further research, I have created a centerialzed discussion and have tried to get it undeleted if you can give me a list of the pages I will restore the catagory. and keep it restored untill the decision is reached. Betacommand 20:12, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

RfA thanks

Samsara (talk • contribs) 22:40, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

"Welsh nationalism" fork

Hi Deb

I think you have misunderstood what User:Normalmouth has done here. He has not changed the name of the existing article, Welsh self-government, which is still there. Instead he has created a parallel article under the title Welsh nationalism in violation of Wikipedia:Content forking. Rhion 17:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello Deb

I may need your help. I am trying to ensure that the article Welsh self-government is correctly titled as Welsh nationalism, as it was until recently when it was changed (see the history of the page). I am not attempting to 'fork' an article, so if I have done it wrong would you be able to assist me so that this violation of the rules does not take place.

I feel strongly that Welsh self-government does not accurately reflect what is an article that is and always was about the history and ideology of the Welsh nationalist movement. Thanks Normalmouth 17:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Plot & Character driven

Hi Deb, yes that's fine, just couldn't find anywhere on Wiki that seemed to highlight these two concepts, regards Martyn Smith 21:54, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Mea culpa

Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa. I just noticed your comments on my page now. I guess they coincided with other edits by others and I didn't realise that two comments, not one, had been added. Anyway, having reviewed the evidence I think that vote was entirely botched. It would never have been allowed to stand. You cannot have a situation where the decision to be taken is changing with the list of things to be deleted growing mid-vote. That is fundamentally wrong.

I have proposed that the entire list be undeleted and re-voted on, and that minority languages, and majority languages, be voted on separately, rather than bunged in together. You can participate in the discussion at the WP:DRV page. I have also told the user who closed the vote that IMHO he made a seriously wrong judgment call. He should have aborted the vote and called a new one.

Again, apologies for not spotting your comments earlier. As I have said, I agree that reaching conclusions on the basis of decisions when most of those voting have already voted before things are added to the deletion list, is fundamentally wrong. Slán FearÉIREANN\^{(caint) 00:40, 19 July 2006 (UTC)}

Bricker Amendment

You were kind enough to comment on my peer review request for my article on the Bricker Amendment. I have now proposed it as a featured article and would appreciate your vote here. PedanticallySpeaking 17:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!

Welcome!

Hi, and welcome to the Biography WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of biographies.

A few features that you might find helpful:

• The project has a monthly newsletter; it will normally be delivered as a link, but several other formats are available.

There are a variety of interesting things to do within the project; you're free to participate however much—or little—you like:

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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask another fellow member, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! plange 17:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Please see Talk:Chester. And for that matter, Talk:Newport and Talk:Plymouth. Evertype 15:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Traci Dinwiddie

Thanks for catching the typo. That's a big DERRRR for me ;-)

Biography Newsletter August 2006

The August 2006 issue of the Biography WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. plange 01:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Uzbek proverbs

In fact, I did mean to delete the contents. The three proverbs listed seem to me jokes rather than proverbs, and we can see from that positive contribution from the writer equals to less than 0: see [1] and [2], [3] and [4]. If you think it should be kept, that's fine, but I thought list of proverbs should be put in Wikiquote? Anyway, thanks. Aranherunar 01:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

August Esperanza Newsletter

Program Feature: To-Do List The Esperanza To-Do List is a place where you may list any request, big or small, for assistance. If you need help with archiving your usertalk, for example, all you need to do is list it here and somebody will help you out. Likewise, if you need help with some area of editing on Wikipedia, list it here! Again, any matter, trivial or not, can be placed on this page. However, all matters listed on this page must not be of an argumentative nature. You do not need to be a member of Esperanza (or this program) to place or fulfill requests on this page. If you don't have any requests, consider coming by and fulfilling a few! This program has not been very active, but has lots of potential! What's New? In order to help proposed programs become specific enough to make into full-fledged programs, the In development section of the proposals page has been created. Proposals that are promising, but need to be organized in more detail are listed here. Please take a look at what is there, and help the proposals turn into programs. To improve both the layout and text of the front page, in an attempt to clarify the image of Esperanza, the front page is going to have some redesigning take place. Please take your creative minds to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Front page redesign to brainstorm good ideas. Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.

The last AC meeting (full log) In order to make sure all users who join Esperanza are welcomed, a list of volunteers who are willing to welcome new Esperanzians is at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Members#Esperanza_welcomers. Please add yourself if you are interested; we want to make sure all new Esperanza members are welcomed! The In development section of the proposals page has been created. Proposals page: Some proposals have been moved to the aforementioned "In development" section, some have been left as a proposal, and others have been archived. For those proposals that were a good idea but didn't necessarily constitute a program, General Esperanzial Actions has been created. Two small pieces of charter reform will be decided on in a straw poll at Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Governance. One involves filling the position of any councillors who may leave, the other involves reforming the charter. Until cooperation with the Kindness Campaign is better defined, it remains as a proposed program. There is a page for discussing the front page redesign. Signed... Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, Freakofnurture, and Titoxd 05:03, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.

Disambiguation

Hi Deb, I have restored the {{otherpeople|Sian James}} tag to Sian James (novelist), because without it there is no link back to the disambiguation page.

The reason that the otherpeople tag points to Sian James (disambiguation) is as a form of futureproofing: that way, if the dab page needs to be moved, it can be moved to xx (disambiguation) without having to rewrite the links elsewhere. If you look carefully at Sian James (disambiguation), you'll see that it contains a special tag for this purpose.

Please don't remove the disambiguation. It helps the reader, and makes wikipedia much easier to maintain. --BrownHairedGirl 17:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Further reply on my talk. --BrownHairedGirl 20:01, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

As a longtime contributor in the area, you may be interested in a debate going on at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 August 21, where a user proposed the mass deletion of the English dynastic templates. (BTW another user is now deleting all images from the templates. It is ridiculous.) FearÉIREANN\^{(caint) 18:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)}

Mary I of Scotland & Wives of French Monarchs

I see where some were listed as "Queen Consorts of France" (no link) but I followed the majority that were linked to the Kings. However, I actually think perhaps using the caption and making an article with a list of Queen Consorts of France is the best and clearest thing to do. I'm easy, so let me know. C. C. Perez 16:37, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Adminship

Your confidence is appreciated. I didn't realize the thing had closed; I suppose I will have to go through and thank everybody. Altogether it does seem an awful lot of pother and name-calling for what really was an offer to clean up WP:RM, which still needs it. Septentrionalis 19:53, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Links for Malcolm/Máel Coluim

It's really not worth changing Máel Coluim I of Scotland (et al) to Malcolm I of Scotland. I can do it with AWB tomorrow when I have a minute. It's very much quicker and easier. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:29, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Could you move Talk:Domnall III of Scotland to Talk:Donald III of Scotland. It seems that the target needs to be deleted before this can happen. Thanks. Angus McLellan (Talk) 16:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Deb, you need to revert your last move and then move Talk:Domnall III of Scotland to Talk:Donald III of Scotland. There are more details of the problem at User_talk:Jtdirl#Gaelic_names_for_Scottish_kings.21. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 17:05, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Reverted it for you. It needs an admin to do it. It's because the moving user didn't move the talk pages also. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 17:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

K, you did it while I was messaging. As you can see on Jtdir's talk page, there are other talk pages with the same problem. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 17:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Hiya,

Sorry I could not finish the fixing. I have had major technical issues.

I don't know whether you'll laugh or cringe at this but three users voted to rename Prime Minister to Prime minister. A lot of users don't think there is a problem with this!!! Another RM is taking place. Feel free to contribute. FearÉIREANN\^{(caint) 02:55, 2 September 2006 (UTC)}

Biography Newsletter September 2006

The September 2006 issue of the Biography WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. plange 00:10, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

link to pantomime

Hello, when you want to link to the article about pantomime, please do not link to pantomime, as that is a disambiguation page (which nothing should be linked to). Instead link to the one of the options found on that page such as pantomime (theatre) by writing out [[pantomime (theatre)|pantomime]] Regards, -- Jeff3000 03:05, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

September Esperanza Newsletter

Program Feature: Barnstar Brigade Here in Wikipedia there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go unappreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go unnoticed. As Esperanzians we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. This is where the Barnstar Brigade comes in. The object of this program is to seek out the people which deserve a Barnstar, and help them feel appreciated. With your help, we can recognize more dedicated editors! What's New? September elections are upon us! Anyone wishing to be a part of the Advisory Council may list themselves as a candidate from 18 September until 24 September, with the voting taking place from 25 September to 30 September. Those who wish to help with the election staff should also list themselves! Appreciation Week, a program currently in development, now has its own subpage! Share your good ideas on how to make it awesome there! The Esperanza front page has been redesigned! Many thanks to all who worked hard on it. Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.

The last AC meeting (full log) The proposals page has been updated, with some proposals being archived. Since the program in development Appretiaion week is getting lots of good ideas, it now has its own subpage. The September 2006 Council elections will open for nominations on 18 September 2006. The voting will run from 25 September 2006 until 30 September 2006. If you wish to be a candidate or a member of the elections staff, please list yourself! The new Esperanza front page design has but put up - many thanks to all who worked on it! TangoTango has written a script for a bot that will list new members of Esperanza, which will help those who welcome new Esperanzains greatly! Signed... Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, Freakofnurture, and Titoxd 04:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.

Pantomime link

I see you've been changing [[Pantomime (theatre)|pantomime]] to [[Pantomime]]. There's is real no benefit of doing so, as redirects are not hurtful, and in fact can be useful, if Pantomime becomes a disambiguation page again, since no disambiguation work will be needed. As you can see from Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links, there is a lot of disambiguation work to be done, and anything that could help us in the future would be apreciated. Thus I would suggest that you don't change any more links. Regards, -- Jeff3000 04:31, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Your statement regarding fixing all the links is definitely not true. A user has to fix all the redirects to check that there are no double-redirects. From WP:R

"Some editors are tempted, upon finding links using a legitimate redirect target, to edit the page to "fix" the link so that it points "straight" at the "correct" page. Unless the link displays incorrectly — for instance, if the link is to a misspelling, or other unprintworthy redirects, or if the hint that appears when you hover over the link is misleading — there is no need to edit the link. The link may be deliberate, may consolidate related information in one place, or may indicate possible future articles."

So please, for the sake of all the disambiguation work that has to be done in the future, please do not update any of the links. Of course if you see some that should go to mime, do fix those. -- Jeff3000 13:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Jeff. Pantomime has different usage in American English than in British English, and it is not a great idea to assume that one usage is the only "correct" one. Better to leave the links as they are, as they do no harm. Unless, of course, you're going to be around to change them all back again if Pantomime gets redirected.... --Russ Blau (talk) 13:37, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

It would take too long to point out all the flaws in the above arguments, so I shan't bother. Deb 16:47, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't see one good argument, so please enlighten us. Otherwise the consensus is that the links shouldn't be changed. -- Jeff3000 18:42, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

User talk page

Kindly refrain from editing or deleting other users' comments on my user talk page. That is considered vandalism. --Russ Blau (talk) 20:06, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

I just wanted to say thanks for capitalizing the Z on the May Ziade page. I couldn't figure out how to do it and really appreciate your stepping in to lend a hand. Tiamut 13:09, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Dracula Luther X

Hi there; with your wealth of experience (no sarcasm intended) you probably spotted that was a doubly reposted article. But if you didn't, it was.--Anthony.bradbury 21:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation links

Hi Deb, I have just restored the {{otherpeople}} tag to several articles where you had replaced it with {{otherpeople2}}. Please stop doing this: apart from the future-proofing which we have discussed before, it is inappropriate to link directly to disambiguation pages - see WP:DAB#Links_to_disambiguation_pages, where it says:

To link to a disambiguation page (instead of a specific meaning), link to the redirect to the disambiguation page that includes the text "(disambiguation)" in the title (such as, America (disambiguation)). This helps distinguish accidental links to the disambiguation page from intentional ones.

That page is a wikpedia guideline, and as noted at the top of the page "It is generally accepted among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow". --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 00:21, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Deb, I see that on monday, after I had posted the above info, you removed the otherpeople tag on John Williams (VC) diff and replaced it with {{otherpeople2}}. Please stop doing this: it is starting to look like vandalism. --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 11:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Lenzi

Thank you very much for correcting me! I'm glad that my mistakes were fixed. Lenzi 22:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Elonka

Thank you very much for your support in my RfA. Unfortunately consensus was not reached, and the nomination was not successful. However, I do appreciate your comments, am still in support of the Wikipedia project, and will continue to contribute without interruption. Thanks again! --Elonka 17:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Questions regarding delete

Ok I admit I am new, but I want to understand why you delete CCD = Come Closer Dear turn? It's not any more nonsense than half the stuff on here, although it is probably before your time. I only know about it because a guy I dated had an old car with a front vinyl bench seat. But it was someting commonly done/said back in the day - think fifties and sixties. I only had to mention CCD to several workmates in their sixties and they all laughed and started talking about doing it on dates, one even said he nearly wrecked his mother's station wagon into a tree trying to do it on his first car date. The guys say it comes from an old movie, and I see _MANY_ terms explained on here in terms of movies they come from, so I am planning to rewrite the article as soon as I have the name of the movie and the person that said it. It was also mentioned in TV sitcom, possibly two. It has been reported to me in "Everybody Loves Raymond" and another show not yet determined, as well as part of a joke onstage on that comedy tour with the redneck guys, reportedly told by that guy that does the whole "you might be a redneck" thing. I want to make sure once I have the exact information regarding where this has been used that it will be fine.

Thanks!

Dr Abol Hasan

i would like to register my complaint with you that u did not give enough time to explain/discuss with you this article. I spent considerable time gathering that information. i would like to ask by which rule did you delete that article.

i had a look at the following page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:BIO

and found out that Dr Abol Hasan meets the following requirements:

The person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field.

and

Political figures holding international, national or statewide/provincewide office or members of a national, state or provincial legislature.

and

Major local political figures who receive (or received) significant press coverage.

and

Painters, sculptors, architects, engineers, and other professionals whose work is widely recognized (for better or worse) and who are likely to become a part of the enduring historical record of that field

Therefore, i would call upon you to undelete that particular topic

Thx.

P.s

also, since he passes the tests above there is no need for the "alternative tests". here i would also like to mention that he is in a part of pakistan which is rather backward and not in touch with the rest of the world but even so he is well known in pakistan in the circles of politics and agriculture. i also request that it be undeleted as a citizen of Jhang. i hope you understand.

How to be: Emo

• Deb, you are my superhero. Thanks for all the work you've done on my first article, How to be: Emo. Is there anything you can suggest to refine it and perhaps get more people to assist adding content?TIinPA 14:54, 28 October 2006 (UTC)TIinPA

Total Football AFC deletion?

Why did you delete the page i created, Total_football_afc, the explanation you gave was very vague.

half self-defense, half apology

Hi, I'm sorry that my comments have led to such a row. I'm a naturally argumentative person, I think, and online discussion tends to accentuate that in everybody. I like arguing and debating, and I tend to think that the process of arguing and debating tends to clarify issues that have not been clearly defined, and pave the way for a synthesizing consensus. If I argue, it's not necessarily an attempt to change anyone's opinion, so much as to clarify my own position in light of objections. In your particular comment, the reason I responded was because I thought your comment that the change "wouldn't be an improvement" had at least some merit on the basis of the case laid out for it beforehand. I made my comment because I thought that you had a good point, that ways in which an alternate system would be an improvement hadn't been laid out very clearly, and I wanted to mention the particular issue that I thought was a good example of a way the proposed changes would (I think) be unambiguously better. I wasn't expecting that you would change your mind simply because I "put comments under your name." This is, in the first place, a rather unfair way to put it. The "vote" is not a formal poll, but an informal discussion taking largely the form of a vote. I was merely attempting to further discuss issues raised by the proposal, and to better articulate some advantages I saw in it, and it was only coincidental that my comment was posted in response to your vote. It would have been lovely if my comments had persuaded you to change your mind, but I had no particular expectation that they would do so, nor was it my intention to somehow invalidate your vote by making a comment below it. At any rate, I didn't expect that you would see my comment as objectionable, and so I was rather surprised by the harsh tone of your response, thus the tone of my second comment. At any rate, I wasn't intending to cause any offense, and I was certainly not trying to browbeat you into changing your vote, or to suggest that your vote was illegitimate. All apologies, at any rate for any rudeness in any of my comments on the subject. Best, john k 15:17, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

November Esperanza Newsletter

Program Feature: Admin Coaching (needs coaches!) Admin Coaching needs coaches!!! If you are an administrator, or even a generally experienced user, do consider signing up to be a coach. Admin Coaching, now being coordinated by HighwayCello, is a program for people who want help learning some of the more subtle aspects of Wikipedia policy and culture. People are matched with experienced users who are willing to offer coaching. The program is designed for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins. What's New? The Tutorial Drive is a new Esperanza program! In an effort to make complicated processes on Wikipedia easier for everyone, Esperanza working to create and compile a list of tutorials about processes here on Wikipedia. Consider writing one! A discussion on how Esperanza relates to the encyclopedia has been started; please add your thoughts. Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.

The last AC meeting (full log) The list of proposed programs has been updated, with some proposals being archived. There is now a new program: the Tutorial Drive! Consider writing a tutorial on something you are good at doing on Wikipedia. The suggestion of adding a cohesive look to all the Esperanza pages is being considered; join the discussion if you are interested! In order to make a useful interlanguage welcome template, those involved in translation projects will be asked what English Wikipedia policies are most important and confusing to editors coming from other language Wikipedias. A discussion of Esperanza's role in Wikipedia is being held, with all thoughts of all Esperanzians wanted! Shreshth91 informed everyone that he will be leaving the Esperanza council as life is rather busy; his spot will be filled by the runner up from the last election, HighwayCello. Signed... Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, The Halo, Shreshth91 and HighwayCello 20:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.

Alexandra

Yup, I realized right afterwards. Already fixed. john k 13:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Years in art

Hey, is there a guideline for formatting the 'Years in art' pages. My own preference is that birth/death entries should have a corresponding death/birth note. eg 1909 - October 28 - Francis Bacon, Irish-born English painter (d. 1992). The yearboxes (eg) should also go IMO- Coil00 03:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Sojourner

Deb, Thanks so much for the info. I do appreciate it. I would like to contribute. I am very interested in the Arts more than anything else on wiki I was asked several times if I would contribute from some folks who have worked with Wiki for a long time now. I owned a photo gallery for many years. We specialized in photojournalism, book arts and short film/video so maybe I can contribute something worthwhile if only for quotes and things of this sort. I will do the best I can. Again, many thanks, Artsojourner 16:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

How to add photography? I can't get this for some reason. I should be able to figure this out on my own but to no avail. Any help here would be greatly appreciated and also, if someone is already a listing in wikipedia, is it ok if they make corrections or additions to their file or is that a no no? Artsojourner 16:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I totally appreciat ethe help Thanks a million.

Re:Lady Mary Boleyn

As the daughter of an earl, that was her name. Craigy (talk) 18:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, true, I didn't realise that. I suppose it'd be safe to keep it at Mary Boleyn due to her second marriage. I'll move it back. Craigy (talk) 21:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

List of yrs in art

Hi Deb, could you take a look at the format changes made by an ip to List of years in art today. I made comments in talk, I'd appreciate your view. Thanks - Coil00 22:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ronnie Stephenson

His name is Ronnie Stephenson and NOT Ronnie Stevenson, I think!

Wilfrid Gibson

Thanks for the tweaks, but I'm not sure about one of them. I wrote that Gibson's work "may" have been eclipsed etc because I'm not certain that, in the long run, it was.

I've been reading some of Gibson's own critical pieces and although he had little time for Eliot & Pound,(As did Aldington) he was generous about other "modernists"

I would rather discuss this than be endlessly changing back & forth between us

DJ 18:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

==Whoops! My apologies DJ 18:37, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

You may have come across some of my posts on the (jtap?) WWI Board DJ 13:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, of course. I've spoken [emailed] to Meg more often than Michele, though. DJ 17:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

And glad to meet you too.DJ 18:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Timothy harper

Deb: You were apparently too fast for me. I was in the process of placing a speedy delete template on Timothy harper when you were deleting it. As a rewult, the page was indavertantly re-created with nothing more than a speedy notice in it. Do you mind deleting it again? Sorry. --Tlmclain | Talk 18:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Deb: Thanks for your help. As you say: "all's well that ends well." --Tlmclain | Talk 22:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Philanthropist

I've added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Philanthropist, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at Talk:Philanthropist. You may remove the deletion notice, and the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. — Sebastian (talk) 03:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Fighting Vandalism

Hi Deb, I just wanted to know if there is a way for me to lock down my userpage where only I can edit it to prevent vandals from leaving offensive comments?

Amlder20 19:04, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The reason I asked is because I had noticed that someone using a IP address had vandalized my userpage on the previous account without me realising it (Someone quickly removed it). All I am interested in is not stopping people with user accounts, just people with IP addresses. Thanks.

Amlder20 19:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't think it will be a hinderance, thank you very much

Amlder20 19:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Inappropriate categories

A word about Category:Requiems. This is a subcategory of Category:Masses (music) and of Category:Choral compositions. It is misleading to use it for compositions about death or dying that are not settings of the mass for the dead, such as you did to Ein Deutsches Requiem. It is also unnecessary (and against the Manual of Style) to have both a category and a subcategory. Thus, your addition of Choral Compositions to Fauré Requiem was not appropriate. I have reverted both changes, but I see that you have made other changes that need to be reverted as well. I thank you for your help in eliminating redundant categorization. Robert A.West (Talk) 16:15, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

• My apologies. I misread the history/diffs. Thank you for helping. Robert A.West (Talk) 16:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you.

Thank you for your support in my recent RfA, which was successful. I will do my best to wield the broom wisely! | Mr. Darcy talk 20:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Another thank you....

...for copy editing the Robert Long (singer) article. First of all you improve the encyclopedia and second of all the original editor improves his/her skills. Cheers, SportsAddicted | discuss 22:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

You're just unlucky that your main language is the one that's most used in this world. You would probably have known more languages if you were born somewhere else. SportsAddicted | discuss 23:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Block of 68.112.255.3

Hi, I just noticed your 6-month block of this IP. In my opinion, that's a little excessive, especially for someone who's never been blocked before, wasn't warned, and was really doing pretty harmless vandalism. Still, I respect your decision enough to not undo it, but I do ask you to reconsider the length of the block to say, 24 hours. Thanks, --Mr. Lefty (talk) 22:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your edit to Minerva Theatre.Dudewheresmywallet 17:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of entry "Hokie New Year's Eve"

Hello Deb -- you just deleted "Hokie New Year's Eve"... which I created about an hour ago. While I think it is significant enough to have hosted here, I am likely not going to go through the trouble of having a deletion debate...

Instead, could you get me a copy of what was up there before it was deleted? I'll likely find another host for our information.

Thanks, chris —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cdemay (talk • contribs) 16:43, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

John Calamos

Hello

Why was the page John Calamos deleted? You state the reason as (advertising). I think the proper tag is better {advert}. I was in the middle of gathering references for it. This person is notable, Forbes 400
Thank you
Trade2tradewell 19:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

"(year) in Wales" articles

Blwyddyn Newydd Dda, Deb.

Just a request for your opinion. I was about to amend the entry on the page 1983 in Wales re the death of Carwyn James when it occurred to me that although this was an event of importance to Wales it did not actually happen in Wales (he died in Amsterdam). What do you think we should do in cases like this? -- Picapica 17:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Your ideas welcome!

Hi Deb,

Before I get to what I'm contacting you about, I just want to say you've made some great contributions, I've noticed, and thanks for that.

I'm concerned about your Tony Curtis item on the 1994 in poetry page, because I'm doubtful that it's noteworthy enough. Since this is a question that affects all the poetry pages, I used that as an example and put up some ideas on the talk page for the List of years in poetry article. I hope you'll look it over and contribute your thoughts. I think this is a question that we should have a consensus on, since it will inevitably come up again and again. I titled the discussion "What's important enough for the "Events" sections? Some ideas for discussion" at the bottom of that page. Some of us are putting up general discussions on that page because it's the only central Years-in-poetry page. Please take a look, and again, thanks for your contributions. Noroton 01:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Year in Wales (part 2)

Deb, you might care to take a look at Talk:1974 in Wales. -- Picapica 17:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Ivory Coast move

Since you participated in previous discussions on Ivory Coast, you might be interested in the requested move at Talk:Côte_d'Ivoire#...Requested_move. —  AjaxSmack  00:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the comment, as you can tell I have only recently joined Wikipedia and have not completley got the hang of the correct way to create and edit pages. The links you sent me will be really useful for when I next contribute. JCBettger 17:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello

Regarding the article Ash (near Sandwich) - you have edited, have you got any green idea about the origin of the name?

Eliko 23:50, 18 January 2007 (UTC)