Faredoka

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Hello, Faredoka!

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Happy editing! Cheers, JarrahTree 04:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Reply

Thanks for message. You are aware that things can be promotional even if there is no commercial aspect. If I say "Indonesia is the best country in the world", that's promotional.

First, If you have a conflict of interest regarding this site, you must disclose the nature of that COI. Also read the following regarding writing an article:

• you must provide independent verifiable sources to enable us to verify the facts and show that it meets the notability guidelines. Sources that are not acceptable include those linked to the organisation or company, press releases, YouTube, IMDB, social media and other sites that can be self-edited, logs, websites of unknown or non-reliable provenance, and sites that are just reporting what the company or organisation claims or interviewing its management. Note that references should be in-line so we can tell what fact each is supporting, and should not be bare urls

• Much of the text is unreferenced, and the two refs that I can access are WorldCat, never acceptable (who writes the text?), and an 11-year-old review based on an interview with a site coordinator, we need independent third-party sources

• The web notability guidelines have five components that must be evaluated separately and independently to determine if it is met:

1. significant coverage in
2. independent,
3. multiple,
4. reliable,
5. secondary sources.

Note that an individual source must meet all four criteria to be counted towards notability. Your text tells us about what the site hosts, but there is no sourcing to independent third party coverage, so hard to show notability

• You must write in a non-promotional tone. Articles must be neutral and encyclopaedic, with verifiable facts, not opinions or reviews.

• The text is clearly promotional SuttaCentral is unique... This is an extensively proofed and corrected version... is the natural starting point in navigating around this vast mass of textual material... For those wishing to explore original Buddhist literature, the way through the complexities of the various collections has now been made infinitely easier. Apart from anything else, whether the site is good or bad isn't a criterion for notability, and it just looks spammy having these unsourced or improperly sourced claims

• There shouldn't be any url links in the article, only in the "References" or "External links" sections.
• You must not copy text from elsewhere. Copyrighted text is not allowed in Wikipedia, as outlined in this policy. That applies even to pages created by you or your organisation, unless they state clearly and explicitly that the text is public domain. We require that text posted here can be used, modified and distributed for any purpose, including commercial; text is considered to be copyright unless explicitly stated otherwise. There are ways to donate copyrighted text to Wikipedia, as described here; please note that simply asserting on the talk page that you are the owner of the copyright, or you have permission to use the text, isn't sufficient.

• Although the lengthy WorldCat quote is attributed, I think it's at least arguable that the copied text is being used inappropriately, but I'll let that go

Before attempting to write an article again, please make sure that the topic meets the notability criteria linked above, and check that you can find independent third party sources. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:40, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

@Jimfbleak: It's also worth noting that the version that was just deleted in 2024 is an exact copy of the January 2016 version that was deleted via Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SuttaCentral (minus the tags, infobox, and a single sentence at the end of the 2016 version). - Aoidh (talk) 15:06, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Aoidh, thanks for that, the 2015 version isn't much different either. Faredoka, how do you explain that your text so closely resembles that of blocked user Terabar? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 16:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Sure. Thanks for pointing these points! Very helpful. About the resemblance, I was just restoring the old version (from the archive url). Btw, you can also do a Wikipedia search for "SuttaCentral" to see how it is used as many references here. Again, my intention was not to promote the site at all. Cheers. Faredoka (talk) 12:38, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Amoralisme

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Amoralisme requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, a question that should have been asked at the help or reference desks, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. CycloneYoris ^talk! 09:51, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought it was idWiki :(((( My bad. Faredoka (talk) 09:52, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Wrong wiki :D My intention was to #REDIRECT the page "Amoralisme" to "Nihilisme moral" in idWiki, not enWiki. Faredoka (talk) 09:54, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Theravada New Year

Hi. I just saw that you moved the article Songkran to Theravada New Year a few weeks ago. I see two issues with this:

Firstly, you boldly performed the move without discussion, but if you look at the article talk page, you'll see that it's been quite contentious (though one of the bickering parties has since been blocked as a sockpuppet, so things have hopefully quieted down). While I also think the article needed to be renamed, it would have been preferable to discuss the move beforehand, though it's done and doesn't seem to have generated opposition, so there's no much point arguing over that now.

However, and this is the second point, I don't think it's accurate. Looking briefly at Google results, all descriptions of Theravada New Year that I find say it's a lunar (technically lunisolar) observation taking place on the first full moon in April. The Songkran-related observances, on the other hand, are based on the sun's transit into Aries, and occur on a fixed solar date (around 14 April).

I suggest the page move be reverted and a discussion started to find a better title, or to merge with South and Southeast Asian solar New Year. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:32, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Paul 012:, thanks for addressing these issues.

I think these issues are valid. Quoting: [1]

...Hinduism spread to Southeast Asia, as did Buddhism, during the first millennium of the Common Era, so Songkran’s precise religious origins are unclear, but in the second millennium it began to take on more exclusively Buddhist meanings and practices as Theravada Buddhism rose in prominence under the Khmer empire (9th–15th century ce) and Ayutthaya empire (14th–18th century)...

These points may be considered:

1. Theravada calendar is also derived from Hindu calendar
2. Reinterpretation of a festival may occur in areas where there is a shift in beliefs

One of the sources used there, that is [2] (p.39; or digitally p.58), states that:

"In the Buddhist Era lunar calendar of Theravada Southeast Asia, the end of the hot, dry season and the onset of the monsoon rains mark the beginning of a new year. It is celebrated during the month of April (in Myanmar, the month of Tagu) for a period of three to four days. In Thailand the New Year festival is named as Songkran (Sanskrit, sankranta), signaling the change of seasons, or in astrological terms, when the sun leaves the zodiacal sign of Pisces and enters the sign of Aries. The celebration was thought to have been adapted from South Indian Brahmanism to Buddhism in Sri Lanka and brought from there to mainland Southeast Asia by Buddhist monks. ... Although Buddhist celebrations associated with the beginning of the New Year take precedence over subsequent Brahmanical and animistic rites honoring the founding of the city and guaranteeing its continued protection, all serve the purpose of promoting the well-being of the community."

Another example, a Thai temple considers "Songkran" as "Theravada New Year" here:[3]

"This festival celebrates the Theravada New Year or Thai New Year, which by ancient custom, occurs in the month of April"

The hypothesis is that perhaps initially this festival was heavily influenced by Hindu traditions but over time, the festival was reinterpreted in a Theravada way. I also have no idea who designs the "interfaith calendar" found online (many sites seem to cite it) like here [4] or here [5] where Songkran is also called "Theravada New Year".

In the "Living Theravada" book[6] (preview only because it is not available for free; but I have a digital copy of it), stated that:

"Buddhist holidays are all celebrated based on the lunar calendar. The Buddhist new year, taking place in mid-April, is known as Bi Mai in Laos, Songkran in Thailand, Thingyan in Myanmar, and Chaul Chnam Thmey in Cambodia. It’s a time of celebration with families; it’s also when many urbanites return to their villages and village temples."

This paper [7] states that,

"Water-splashing Festival is also called Songkran Festival, In Yunnan, Water-splashing Festival is a New Year's Festival for Dai, Brown, De 'ang, Achang and other ethnic groups who believe in Theravada Buddhism. The legends about the origin of Songkran Festival have different versions in different regions and are recorded in different documents. I don't intend to go into details here, but it should be noted that from the origin of Songkran Festival, Songkran Festival is not only a Buddhist festival, but also a typical festival at the age of old."

This one [8] is also interesting:

"In the 13th century CE, King Ramkhamhaeng of the Sukhothai Dynasty in Thailand designated Theravada Buddhism as the official state religion and introduced the tradition of the "Songkran Festival." Initially, the Songkran Festival was held in June in the Buddhist calendar, with the purpose of praying for rain before the rainy season to ensure a bountiful harvest. With economic developments, the festival is now held annually from April 13th to 15th, spanning three days (G.-Y. Wang, 2016).

In the Thai solar calendar, twelve months correspond to twelve zodiac signs, and the days of the week follow the solar calendar using the names of planets to designate each day. In the traditional Thai New Year celebration, "Songkran" signifies a transition, indicating that on that day, the sun moves from the Pisces constellation to Aries, making day and night equal in length (Agarwal, 2009).

The most popular myth about the Songkran Festival in Thailand originates from a stela (stone inscription) at Wat Pho in Bangkok. The story narrates the tale of a wealthy individual who made sacred offerings to obtain a male heir and was eventually granted a magical son named "Kuma." Kuma won a contest of wits against a prophet and showcased his extraordinary intelligence. After defeating the prophet, Kuma beheaded him, but due to its malevolent nature, the head could cause disasters. In the end, seven princesses placed the head in a bowl, and the bowl spun around Mount Meru to avert calamities. Subsequently, a deity of architecture built a palace for the head, allowing the gods to gather and celebrate this victory, and the festival was named "Songkran" (Chinese culture for children, 2021). This festival has been passed down through generations, becoming a significant tradition for the people of Thailand to celebrate the New Year while carrying the symbolic meaning of prayers for rain and a prosperous harvest."

Although it is very possible that the festival in question is more appropriately associated with South and Southeast Asian solar New Year, further research is still needed. Further, some of the SEA's festivals, often, present "historical" stories that are a mixture of "legit history" and "mythological history".

1. Reverted the move
2. Discussion to find a better title, or
3. Merge with South and Southeast Asian solar New Year

After seeing that Mesha Sankranti exists, I think the "Songkran" one has to exist, too. So, option 3) is not preferred.

There is also a heated debate over whether "Thingyan (Myanmar) is the original festival, not Songkran (Thailand)" out there. I don't think keeping "Songkran" as the page's name really reflects it generally. Just as Lunar New Year is not merged into Chinese New Year. Lunar New Year > Chinese New Year; Southeast Asian New Year > Songkran (Thailand). So, option 1) is not preferred.

Now, let's discuss option 2). As "Theravada New Year" is just an alternative, what about "Southeast Asian solar New Year" or "Southeast Asian New Year" so that it covers a more universal scope (whether or not it is "Theravada-ish", given the historical background) of the New Years?

Thanks :) Faredoka (talk) 17:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't suggesting 1 and 2 as separate options to choose from, just that per the WP:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, changes should be reverted to the status quo ante while discussion takes place. I don't think variants on "Southeast Asian solar New Year" are a great option, as it's just inventing another term, and the observance is mostly only seen in the mainland, which is just half of Southeast Asia. But further discussion should take place on the article talk page. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:29, 7 November 2024 (UTC)