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User talk:Floquenbeam/Archive 17

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Latest comment: 17 days ago by Mikeblas in topic Let's not?
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Happy First Edit Day!

Latest comment: 2 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

August music

Latest comment: 1 month ago10 comments2 people in discussion
 
story · music · places

Today I have two "musicians" on the Main page, one is also the topic of my story, watch and listen, - I like today's especially because you see him at work, hear him talk about his work and the result of his work - rare! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:08, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

... and a third, like 22 July but with interview and the music to be played today --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:24, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

A rainbow if you click on places --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:23, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

On 13 August, Bach's cantata was 300 years old, and the image one. The cantata is an extraordinary piece, using the chorale's text and famous melody more than others in the cycle. It's nice to have not only a recent death, but also this "birthday" on the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

today's story is about education, 10 years OTD after lecturing our founder). Music for today's feast is Monteverdi's, the best concert we ever did (so pictured again on my talk). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry I've not been responding. I was on vacation. I finally got a chance to nearly completely unplug from work (something I haven't been able to do in a while). I also made a conscious decision to unplug from WP as well. It was wonderful. Equal parts sitting in the sun, reading, kayaking, and eating. Not sure why I came back.... Floquenbeam (talk) 20:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
to hear good news, probably, such as my first DYK was 15 years ago OTD, about a friend of mine who had a red link, and better: just returned from a wonderful concert with only music I had never heard before, - the youngest composer (of 12, 2 of them women) born 1988 (a red link), heavenly from start to finish! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:32, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Congrats on the 15th anniversary, and glad you enjoyed the multi-composer concert. It amazes me that someone born in 1988 isn't a kid! Born in the 80's and in their 30's? How did that happen? Floquenbeam (talk) 20:56, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
Today is the birthday of Alma Mahler. I believe that Siegfried Lorenz should be mentioned on the Main page among the Recent deaths. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:05, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
... and he appeared! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2024

Latest comment: 1 month ago1 comment1 person in discussion

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2024).

  Administrator changes

  Pppery

  Interface administrator changes

  Pppery
 

  Oversighter changes

  Wugapodes

  CheckUser changes

 

  Guideline and policy news

  • Following an RfC, there is a new criterion for speedy deletion: C4, which applies to unused maintenance categories, such as empty dated maintenance categories for dates in the past.
  • A request for comment is open to discuss whether Notability (species) should be adopted as a subject-specific notability guideline.

  Arbitration

  Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:44, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

About a legitimate draft that needs moving to a salted draft page

Latest comment: 1 month ago7 comments5 people in discussion

Hello I have seen a draft on Chris Chan that appears to be a legitimate draft. As I cannot move it and you are the protecting admin, I ask that you move the draft as it isn't an attack, thanks. Felicia (talk) 23:23, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Floquenbeam, I have declined the draft due to WP:BIO1E along with referencing the the ANI discussion that led to you salting the title (other titles were already salted). If you disagree with the decline you are of course welcome to move it mainspace. Pinging @JSwift49, the creator of the draft. S0091 (talk) 14:32, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
@Felicia777 and S0091: Thanks for the notice, I agree with the decline. I don't think any article about Chris Chan should be in mainspace without some kind of community discussion (DRV I think?). There is a reason that every possible page title related to them has been salted. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:15, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
@Floquenbeam @S0091 No worries. And I agree in that it’s a good idea to get community consensus on the mainspace inclusion. I do think I could work on the draft to make it better; would it be possible to move it to Draft:Chris Chan or Draft:Christine Weston Chandler? JSwift49 16:29, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
How about /dev/null? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
I don't think we need to rename the draft page; that would be like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Before you spend too much time on this, you should know that I am pretty confident that the community will never support having an article on Chris Chan. I'm less confident, but I suspect even an MFD on the draft article would succeed. I think the community is kind of sick of talking about this over the years, and has settled on a "no means no" philosophy. I'm not going to do anything to the draft itself, but others might. Be aware that you're up against an annoyed and exhausted community as far as this person is concerned. And - although I do not doubt your good motivations - be aware that you've got some really slimy bedfellow who really, really want an article. Make sure their reputations don't get transferred to you. Floquenbeam (talk) 18:02, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Got it; thanks. Appreciate your explaining. JSwift49 19:02, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Latest comment: 1 month ago2 comments2 people in discussion
  The Surreal Barnstar
For your insights as a sage veteran: But also, like scripture, policy can be made to support any side of any ITN/C discussion; which specific policies people quote in each discussion is primarily determined by whether they instinctively want that thing posted or not. Now that I think about it, kind of like AN/ANI. Now that I really think about it, kind of like Wikipedia in general.[1] —Bagumba (talk) 09:46, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Surreal? Ha! Thanks, Bagumba. (I'm not really a sage veteran, but I sometimes do a passable job of masquerading as one.) Floquenbeam (talk) 19:37, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Guidance required.

Latest comment: 23 days ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Hi, im here to get some guidance or simple advice on our ban lift conversion before 2 months ago, i wonder if editing the article Turkmeneli will result in breaking your conditions? Because i really cant bare seeing such edits labeling the article to extreme ideologies like; (1) or vandalizing it (2) or falsely describing scores such as this edit (3) where in the book it says (The fact that no published expression of it shows Turkmeneli continuing into Syria, Turkey, or Iran reflects the reality of its origins! As you can see deleting a line (it shows Turkmeneli continuing into Syria, Turkey, or Iran reflects the reality of its origins) can convert the meaning of the book’s author 180! I wonder if i can edit the page of Turkmeneli or it will violate your conditions, because i feel these edits meant for vandalism and since we are a small nation and almost no wiki volunteer cares about it, makes me very concerned and hurt for how the article became a hub for anti turkmen edits.

i will be waiting a reply from you and wont make a move before you giving me some wisdom over the situation, have a great day. NICTON t (talk) 22:32, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

@NICTON t:, I believe that would be covered by "the topics of Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed". It is not a perfect fit, but I believe it is covered because of the "broadly construed" part. It appears there is some disagreement/overlapping claims/anti-Kurdish sentiment (or claims of such). I note this pre-block edit of yours: [2]. The main idea is to stay way, way, far away from contentious editing. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:23, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks alot. NICTON t (talk) 16:25, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
No problem, I'm glad you asked. Floquenbeam (talk) 16:27, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – October 2024

Latest comment: 18 days ago1 comment1 person in discussion

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2024).

 

  Administrator changes

 
 

  CheckUser changes

 
 

  Guideline and policy news

  Arbitration

  Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

September music

Latest comment: 23 days ago20 comments2 people in discussion
 
story · music · places

And he appeared! What do you think of my short version of the life of Alexander Goehr? Our DYK team would probably want that he worked in a training kibbutz. I was happy to include a link to an article by Brian Boulton, - we sang the Monteverdi Vespers on 1 September 2019. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

RD looks hard to achieve these days. Quite a lot of nominations, so the time on the main page looks short. Looks like Lorenz only made it on for a little under 1 day. Glad you got that, at least. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Goehr comment will have to wait; just popped online fo a sec. -Floquenbeam (talk) 18:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Your summary for Goehr seems about right ... for something in your own userspace. I've kind of given up guessing what DYK team would want to do, but that summary certainly seems longer than what I usually see at DYK. Good luck with the GA. Floquenbeam (talk) 19:41, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. DYK is not for an overview of a person's life, I understand that much, but do we have to go for trivia? I doubt that. The usual reasoning is that the broad readership is not interested in anything regarding the production of a contemporary composer, and we have to search for something appealing to them, and if we don't find anything, close the nomination. No guesswork needed, it happens again and again. Latest example. (It's resolved, he's in prep, but what a waste of time.) - GA for Goehr was trying something after John said it was a good article. More serious: BWV 78, written for last Sunday, Wikipedia birthday 10 September, so today last chance for a nomination, but it should ideally be GA before. Chances are slim, but there's nothing to loose. Listen if you haven't on Sunday ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:44, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Today's story has 3 composers, I couldn't decide for the one on the Main page or the one who didn't make it on his bicentenary, so took both, and the pic has a third. Listen if you have a bit of time. The music, played by the Kyiv Symphony Orchestra in Germany in April 2022, soon after the invasion of Ukraine, impressed me. (The official DYK hook, to continue the above, has no indication of music whatsoever, - all it says about a pioneer is that he died, the rest is some attention-grabbing stuff about burning of his papers, which - as the talk page has - is not even hard fact.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
My first barnstar was for resilience. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Recommended reading today: Frye Fire, by sadly missed Vami_IV. - Went with friends to a place you know: lovely again! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Hey, I see the block didn't last too long. Glad it was undone, rather than "shortened to time served". Hope your friends enjoyed the view as much as I did. Floquenbeam (talk) 23:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
As I said over there, I liked the wording of the unblock. One of my edit summaries said "I don't want mercy but to be understood", and that is still not achieved. I remembered a case where an admin thought "clearly a violation" and you said "No foul, play one." (and we played on.) Yes, I was on a campaign, fighting bias for 1) a woman, 2) a classical musician, 3) a foreigner, and a block will not stop me from doing such things, and then what is good for at all? Do you think such a question would be understood? I really don't know ;) - Enjoying lovely days, with Sibylle's husband, - Sybille whose death notice said "Non, je ne regrette rien". (Look for her name in my 2022 talk, - I didn't remember how often I mentioned it.) - We went to Goldatzel, pic to come! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:35, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
Happy because my story today is about a Czech mezzo soprano who is mentioned on the Main page on her birthday. --Gerda Arendt (talk)
Happier about Bach's cantata on the Main page on its 300th birthday (per calendar), my story (again)! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:30, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
Three stories related to today in memory, 11 September, 20 July and 20 June, the latter piece of art also pictured on the Main page. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:11, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Today is the wedding anniversary of the Schumanns, they needed court support because she wasn't of age and her father against it. She was coming of age the following day ... - Anyway, saw your name on my watchlist and was reminded that I uploaded the pics from "our" place but then got lost updating Friedrich Schorlemmer and distracted by you know who. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:30, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
Today is Schoenberg's 150th birthday! On display, portrayed by Egon Schiele, with music from Moses und Aron, and with two DYK hooks, one from 2010 and another from 2014; the latter, about his 40th birthday, appeared on his 140th birthday, which made me happy then and now again. - See places for a stunning sunrise, on the day Bruckner's 200th birthday was celebrated (just a few days late). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
My story is about one of the people behind the peaceful revolution. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Ah, back when I was optimistic about how the world was evolving. Floquenbeam (talk) 21:20, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
My story today is about a man who played jazz when it was banned by the Nazis, - you can listen to how they played it later. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:22, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
Ach, lieben Christen, seid getrost, BWV 114, is one of the pieces in my topic of this year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:59, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
My story today features a pic I took from my position in the choir, I can also offer varied delightful music, some from Venice, also with pics I took, - note the rose in the clarinet ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:45, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm skipping ahead by a day; I can't wait to get home and discover the musical overlap between RVW and the Beatles. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:26, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Let's not?

Latest comment: 17 days ago7 comments4 people in discussion

Hello! Why did you reject my request for guidance here? -- mikeblas (talk) 03:24, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

It is always best to focus on the underlying issue. A section at ANI on the removal of citations is not the place to talk about suppression. In fact, the whole point of suppression is that something should not be discussed anywhere. The question concerns whether it is a good idea to remove citations merely because they are broken. The answer is obvious but should be argued at ANI, not here. Johnuniq (talk) 03:50, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
@Mikeblas: "Reject your request for guidance"? What an odd accusation. And the second time that you've taken something you don't understand, and assumed it must be because of another editor mistreating you. I'll assume it's because you're stressed out from ANI. Anyway, I already explained this in the collapse text. You misunderstood how suppression worked and jumped to a conclusion, a couple of people explained to you what actually happened, and then you and another editor continued sniping about something other than the main topic of the thread. The guidance was provided. I was preventing the thread from spiraling even further from the topic. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:09, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
Indeed, the ANI free-for-all (because it's not any kind of process) has made me miserable. My last comment was But maybe it would be more productive to consider my repeated plea for help and guidance. and your response to was to box the comment with the response "Let's not." If you were asking for help and the response was "Let's not", what would you take away? Can you tell me where the guidance was provided so I can review it, please? -- mikeblas (talk) 15:13, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
The guidance about suppression was provided here by Schazjmd and here by Valeree. To explain even further, it was not your edits that were suppressed; the way suppression (and revision deletion, a tool in the admin toolkit) works is that all intervening revisions of the page between the edit that added the text needs to be hidden and the edit removing that text needs to be suppressed in order for said text to be fully hidden from view; otherwise, one could simply go to an unsuppressed version of the page in between the two and see the offending text. Your (unrelated) edits were caught in between the addition and removal of the offending text, so the revisions wherein you added your edits were suppressed, but the suppression itself doesn't actually hide the text you added, which was and is still visible in the versions of the page.
I understand that you were also asking for more general guidance about how ANI works, but surely you can see and appreciate that, with all of the aforementioned sniping, any such guidance was not going to come of that subsection, which is why Floq closed it. Not because of the request for guidance itself, but because any further guidance wasn't going to happen in that subsection. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
Guidance was provided about your confusion regarding suppressed edits. That was the topic of the subsection I closed. Your request for more basic guidance on ANI has been made in the main thread, and on ANI's talk page; the fact that there was a third request in the section I closed doesn't mean I've somehow rejected your request. I'm not sure there is any written guidance about how to react to an ANI thread, but if there is I imagine it would be in the ANI header section. I suppose the best approach is to calmly answer any questions, don't get drawn into bickering, and listen to constructive criticism. I agree ANI sucks but it's all we have. Floquenbeam (talk) 15:30, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
"ANI sucks" is an understatement. A vast, vast understatement. Thanks for the explanation, but to be clear, at that section, I wasn't asking for guidance about suppression. I was asking for guidance about ANI. I have yet to receive anything useful. And your guess is right: there's nothing in the page header. -- mikeblas (talk) 01:03, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
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