Welcome!
Hello, Jesushaces, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, you can post to the help desk or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Rob Church Talk | Desk 22:13, 28 August 2005 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for those pictures. It inded makes a lot of difference. But they are somehow blurry, I wonder why. Did you save directly to PNG from Maple? I think one can save with a bigger resolution, and then they may look a bit better. Or one may save them as postscript, and then convert to PNG in some image editor. Also, the number on the axes could be a big bigger (I am sure there is a parameter in Maple to tweak that).
This are all very minor things, it is great you made the pictures. But since you went all the way to make them, putting some minor touches would probably take little time and improve the images a bit. Thank you again for making the pictures. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 18:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
- I replied on my talk page, to keep the conversation in one place. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:55, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Greetings, and welcome to Wikipedia. I hope you'll enjoy the community and be a valuable contributor.
You have shown an interest in the article Proof that 0.999... equals 1. Both of your attempts have been rebuffed, so I thought I'd be nice and stop by your page to explain some issues in more detail.
First, you changed a paragraph of discussion to a lump of LaTeX. Oleg Alexandrov reverted that with the comment "Made the whole thing into an ugly image. As per the math style manual, that is to be avoided." His decision was perfectly correct, but his explanation may have left you with the misconception that the only objection was the use of LaTeX. Your present attempt uses the talk page, which is the preferred path for a delicate article. You have avoided the LaTeX and have asked for feedback, which is good Wikipedian behavior.
Unfortunately, you have innocently stepped into an article best left alone. Except for fixing a spelling error, almost any change to the article is liable to precipitate trouble. It may seem like a simple, elementary-school topic. That could hardly be further from the truth! It is in fact subtle, difficult, and confusing. A typical university education would not equip you with the necessary background, probably not even as a mathematics major. Grammar school students get it wrong, but so do high school students, the general public and students of calculus (analysis).
For example, what does it mean to multiply an infinite decimal fraction by 10? This is not something we can take for granted! And what does it mean to subtract one infinite decimal fraction from another. This is a major issue, yet you ignore it. Then we must deal with the infinite result of the subtraction, and assert that we have only zeros, which we discard to get the integer 9. Do you have any idea of the heated discussions this step can raise? I think not. Finally, we go from arithmetic to algebra. Not only is this significant mathematically, it's also a potential obstacle for young readers not familiar with algebra. You assume the algebra without comment.
Each omission is potentially explosive, as history has shown. The article in its current form has been stable for some time now, the longest ever. Please, just leave well enough alone. I do hope you'll understand. Thanks. --KSmrqT 07:44, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
- I have responded to KSmrq on the talk page, but let me summarize: no matter how delicately you treat your digits, there will always be some step at which you must assume that your numbers are real numbers. The quest for precision in the proofs is futile and must be abandoned. Jesushaces, your proposal might not be the best way, but you're looking in the right direction. Melchoir 12:03, 30 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for your concern, but I didn't mean my post as an attack per se; if anything, I'm trying to de-escalate on Wikipedia by giving up on defending myself or the actual mathematics. On the other hand, Uncyclopedia actually encourages flamewars. Melchoir 22:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
- I'll respond on my own page... Melchoir 23:03, 17 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
Here's an attempt (hopeful, but, it's something) to rewrite the article in such a way that both parties are satisfied, please edit it, but keep in mind that the intended focus of this article is
- To prove that 0.999... equals 1 exactly
- To contain a section which mentions the reasons why people think that 0.999 is less than 1
- Have a 'stable' version of the article
- End the discussion
I think it's a good start, although I think that the main section you added (the reasons why people may think 0.999... < 1) needs some expansion. If it's ok with you, I'd like to make a start on how I feel it needs a little more (perhaps with brief explanations why some of the more basic ones are flawed). Confusing Manifestation 14:51, 18 February 2006 (UTC)Reply
I'm honoured that you've been watching my contributions. I hadn't in fact seen the page you linked to, so thanks for pointing it out. However, I still believe that a welcome message is nice: I'd have loved to have been given a welcome message when I joined at all, never mind before or after editing (I didn't get one!). If there's an actual policy against it, then I shall of course stop, but otherwise, I think it's right to continue. Thanks for your help--Keycard (talk) 17:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)Reply
- Re-reading my first sentence, I admit that it does seem a bit sarcastic: I didn't mean it that way! Thanks for your late welcome. About these users who don't edit... why can't their accounts simply be deleted, if, say, they don't make an edit within 1 month of opening an account?--Keycard (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2006 (UTC)Reply
- About the accounts being deleted, I have no idea... to me it might sound like a good idea. I'll check areound and if I find anything, will let you know. Jesushaces
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Reach out is a program aimed at allowing users to bring issues that they have had in Wikipedia to a listening, sympathetic and caring audience:
- "No one can know how we feel if we do not say. We cannot expect to get understanding if we do not ask for it. No one will dispute that sometimes life's issues are too much for one person. It is fair to say that sometimes Wikipedia's problems fall under the same heading. This is a place where you can bring the bruises that can sometimes be got on this project for attention."
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| The Stress alerts program aims at identifying users who are stressed, alerting the community of thier stress and works in tandem with the Stressbusters at trying to identify causes of stress and eliminating them.
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Note from the editor
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| Welcome to this new format of the Esperanza Newsletter, which came about during the last Advisory Council meeting - we hope you like it! The major changes are that each month, right after the Council meeting, this will be sent out and will include two featured programs and a sum up of the meeting. Also, it will be signed by all of the Advisory Council members, not just Celestianpower. Have an Esperanzial end of March, everyone!
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- Future meetings are to be held monthly, not fortnightly as before.
- Bans and Access level changes (apart from autovoice) in the IRC channel are to be reported at the new log.
- In the IRC channel, there is going to be only one bot at a time.
- The charter requires members to have 150 edits and 2 weeks editing. Why this is the case will be clarified.
- A new Code of Conduct will be drafted by JoanneB and proposed to the Esperanza community.
- The NPA reform idea is to be dropped officially.
- Charter ammendments are to be discussed in future, not voted on.
- The Advisory Council is not going to be proposed to be expanded by the Advisory Council themselves, if others want to propose it, they will listen.
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Signed...
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The Barnstar Brigade is a new program aimed at giving more very deserving yet unappreciated users barnstars. It will officially start on 2006-04-09, but signing up is encouraged before this date:
- "Here in Wikipedia, there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go un-appreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go un-noticed. Sadly, these editors often leave the project. As Esperanzians, we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. A project the size of Wikipedia has thousands of editors, so there are plenty of people out there who deserve recognition, one just has to find them. The object of this program is not to flood editors with Barnstars, but to seek out people who deserve them, and make them feel appreciated."
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| The Stress alerts program aims at identifying users who are stressed, alerting the community of thier stress and works in tandem with the Stressbusters at trying to identify causes of stress and eliminating them.
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Information
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| Welcome to the second issue of the new format Esperanza Newsletter - we hope you still like it! This week, it was delivered diligently by our new dogsbody. MiszaBot (run by Misza13): any execution complaints should go to him. Content comments should be directed at the Esperanza talkpage. Thanks!
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The Administrator Coaching program is a program aimed at preparing Wikipedians for Adminship or helping them understand the intricacies of Wikipedia better. Recently, changes have been made to the requirements of coachees. Please review them before requesting this service.
- This would be something like the Welcoming Committee, but for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. Some might like suggestions about how to learn vandal patrol, or mentoring on taking an article to featured status, or guidance with a proposal they plan to make at the Village Pump, for example. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins.
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| The Stressbusters are a subset of Esperanza aiming to investigate the causes of stress. New eyes on the situation are always welcome!
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Note from the editor
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| As always, MiszaBot handled this delivery. Thank you! Also, congratulations go to Pschemp, Titoxd and Freakofnurture for being elected in the last elections! An Esperanzial May to all of the readership!
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- Posting logs of the Esperanza IRC channel are explicitly banned anywhere. Violation of this rule results in deletion and a ban from the channel.
- A disclaimer is going to be added to the Esperanza main page. We are humans and, as such, are imperfect.
- Various revisions have been made to the Code of Conduct. Please see them, as the proposal is ready to be ratified by the community and enacted. All members will members to have to re-confirm their membership after accepting the Code of Conduct.
- Referendums are to be held on whether terms of AC members should be lengthened and whether we should abolish votes full stop.
- Admin Coaching reform is agreed upon.
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Signed...
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As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.
As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Wikipedia:Esperanza/June 2006 elections.
Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, —Celestianpower háblame 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)Reply
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| The Esperanza To-Do List is a place where you may list any request, big or small, for assistance. If you need help with archiving your usertalk, for example, all you need to do is list it here and somebody will help you out. Likewise, if you need help with some area of editing on Wikipedia, list it here! Again, any matter, trivial or not, can be placed on this page. However, all matters listed on this page must not be of an argumentative nature. You do not need to be a member of Esperanza (or this program) to place or fulfill requests on this page. If you don't have any requests, consider coming by and fulfilling a few! This program has not been very active, but has lots of potential!
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What's New?
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| In order to help proposed programs become specific enough to make into full-fledged programs, the In development section of the proposals page has been created. Proposals that are promising, but need to be organized in more detail are listed here. Please take a look at what is there, and help the proposals turn into programs.
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| To improve both the layout and text of the front page, in an attempt to clarify the image of Esperanza, the front page is going to have some redesigning take place. Please take your creative minds to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Front page redesign to brainstorm good ideas.
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Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter. |
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- In order to make sure all users who join Esperanza are welcomed, a list of volunteers who are willing to welcome new Esperanzians is at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Members#Esperanza_welcomers. Please add yourself if you are interested; we want to make sure all new Esperanza members are welcomed!
- The In development section of the proposals page has been created.
- Proposals page: Some proposals have been moved to the aforementioned "In development" section, some have been left as a proposal, and others have been archived. For those proposals that were a good idea but didn't necessarily constitute a program, General Esperanzial Actions has been created.
- Two small pieces of charter reform will be decided on in a straw poll at Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Governance. One involves filling the position of any councillors who may leave, the other involves reforming the charter.
- Until cooperation with the Kindness Campaign is better defined, it remains as a proposed program.
- There is a page for discussing the front page redesign.
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Signed...
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| Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.
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| Here in Wikipedia there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go unappreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go unnoticed. As Esperanzians we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. This is where the Barnstar Brigade comes in. The object of this program is to seek out the people which deserve a Barnstar, and help them feel appreciated. With your help, we can recognize more dedicated editors!
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What's New?
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| September elections are upon us! Anyone wishing to be a part of the Advisory Council may list themselves as a candidate from 18 September until 24 September, with the voting taking place from 25 September to 30 September. Those who wish to help with the election staff should also list themselves!
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| Appreciation Week, a program currently in development, now has its own subpage! Share your good ideas on how to make it awesome there!
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| The Esperanza front page has been redesigned! Many thanks to all who worked hard on it.
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Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter. |
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- The proposals page has been updated, with some proposals being archived.
- Since the program in development Appretiaion week is getting lots of good ideas, it now has its own subpage.
- The September 2006 Council elections will open for nominations on 18 September 2006. The voting will run from 25 September 2006 until 30 September 2006. If you wish to be a candidate or a member of the elections staff, please list yourself!
- The new Esperanza front page design has but put up - many thanks to all who worked on it!
- TangoTango has written a script for a bot that will list new members of Esperanza, which will help those who welcome new Esperanzains greatly!
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Signed...
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| Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.
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| Admin Coaching needs coaches!!! If you are an administrator, or even a generally experienced user, do consider signing up to be a coach.
Admin Coaching, now being coordinated by HighwayCello, is a program for people who want help learning some of the more subtle aspects of Wikipedia policy and culture. People are matched with experienced users who are willing to offer coaching. The program is designed for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins.
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What's New?
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| The Tutorial Drive is a new Esperanza program! In an effort to make complicated processes on Wikipedia easier for everyone, Esperanza working to create and compile a list of tutorials about processes here on Wikipedia. Consider writing one!
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| A discussion on how Esperanza relates to the encyclopedia has been started; please add your thoughts.
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Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter. |
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- The list of proposed programs has been updated, with some proposals being archived.
- There is now a new program: the Tutorial Drive! Consider writing a tutorial on something you are good at doing on Wikipedia.
- The suggestion of adding a cohesive look to all the Esperanza pages is being considered; join the discussion if you are interested!
- In order to make a useful interlanguage welcome template, those involved in translation projects will be asked what English Wikipedia policies are most important and confusing to editors coming from other language Wikipedias.
- A discussion of Esperanza's role in Wikipedia is being held, with all thoughts of all Esperanzians wanted!
- Shreshth91 informed everyone that he will be leaving the Esperanza council as life is rather busy; his spot will be filled by the runner up from the last election, HighwayCello.
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Signed...
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| Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.
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