Kadrun

Hello, Kadrun! Welcome to Wikipedia! We're so glad you're here! If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you would like to play around with your new Wiki skills, the sandbox is for you. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! — Mikhailov Kusserow (talk) 02:31, 16 July 2009 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Number assignments to PKMs transferred to other countries

Could you share how you matched the PKM numbers with the boats that were transferred to the Philippines? Thank you. adroth (talk) 00:09, 25 April 2009

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Discussion about your so-chongtong additions

This is a notice that I have created a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#Verify Korean firsts in military weaponry about your edits about the so-chongtong. --Raijinili (talk) 03:02, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Images of Poongsan Corporation's K279, K277, K307 and K310 ammunition now can be used for the article

The file was renamed "120 mm and 155 mm ammunition of Poongsan Corporation.jpg" by requesting a renaming of images that had long been mistaken for Turkish 120 mm and 155 mm ammunition in Altay (Kampfpanzer) and MKE articles. This image can now be used as a legitimate license in K9 articles.

120 mm and 155 mm ammunition of Poongsan Corporation: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:120_mm_and_155_mm_ammunition_of_Poongsan_Corporation.jpg Gasiseda (talk) 14:03, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Damn nice good job Kadrun (talk) 15:37, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Reference materials

https://koreascience.kr/article/JAKO199841548331646.page 21세기를 대비한 우리의 지상무기체계-자주포
https://koreascience.kr/article/JAKO200041548523705.page K9 신형 155밀리 자주포체계 개발성과 및 교훈
https://koreascience.kr/article/JAKO200141548538159.page 155밀리 항력감소 이중목적 고폭탄 개발 의의 및 성과
https://koreascience.kr/article/JAKO200241548152059.page K9 자주포 전술적 사격지휘체계 개발성과 및 교훈
https://koreascience.kr/article/JAKO200503018437700.page A Study of K-9 engine Proper Depot maintenance Cycle
https://koreascience.kr/article/CFKO200911764903236.page A Study on Statistical Distribution of Muzzle Velocity of 155mm Propelling Charge
https://koreascience.kr/article/JAKO201918052911305.page The Selection of the Export Market of Defense Industrial Products: Based on K9 Self-propelled howitzers. (The US dollar price of K9 and other self-propelled howitzers is mentioned.)
https://koreascience.kr/article/JAKO202130053141354.page A Feasibility Study of Autonomous Driving and Unmanned Technology of Self-Propelled Artillery, K-9

I went through these research papers and found sources worth adding to the K9 article. Gasiseda (talk) 16:25, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

I'll read those. Thank you. Kadrun (talk) 16:53, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

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M4A3E8 designation

Back in June '22 you added to the M4 Sherman page a bit about the M4A3E8 in Korea. It said the M4A3(76)w HVSS was redesignated M4A3E8 post WW2. This at first caused a lot of confusion with me, as your added source does state this, but it contradicts most other websites and such. After some digging I found R.P. Hunnicutt's book on the history of the Sherman (don't recall the exact name right now) states the E8 designation was given in 1943 and no redesignation happened post WW2.

Just thought I'd let you know to prevent any further spreading of this little piece of misinformation DynCoder (talk) 08:02, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

More credible sources win. :-) Kadrun (talk) 19:59, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

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The KAI KF-21 Boramae article needs a major rework

KAI KF-21 Boramae is almost the only fighter development project currently underway with transparent disclosure of development schedules and development processes, and unlike previous T-50 Golden Eagles, most of the work is carried out independently by KAI. Nevertheless, most of the content of the article deals with various controversies and Indonesia's delayed payment of contributions.

A major rework is required to deal with the clear topic of the article. We need to clean or delete the Project partners, and Controversies sections that cover the most content in the current article and contain irrelevant or unnecessary references to the topic of the article, and add more on history and design.

I can't do this alone and I'm still bad at writing articles in English. I also need your help because I don't know about general aviation terms. I'm currently focusing on image and video source work in Wikimedia Commons, so there's too much to do. If you are willing to rework KF-21 I can get various sources for you. You'll do well this time as well as you did a great rework of the K1 88-Tank article before.🙂 Gasiseda (talk) 15:03, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh holy lord. I checked the development video of KT-1 and T-50, and you have to finish those in order to master KF-21 page. Someone with knowledge of prior generations is really required. All connected. For English / Grammar, you can use "grammar checker" online. They do really good job to make sentences correctly. Kadrun (talk) 17:45, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, KT-1 and T-50 also need more work, but this year we will put greater priority on creating images and video sources at Wikimedia Commons and improving Korean military article of the Stub level. The aviation sector is not something I'm usually interested in, but I've recently become a little interested. I'm currently collecting sources to improve KF-21 articles. This summer, I will go to Sacheon Air Force Base, where the flight test of KF-21 is going on, camp, stay for two or three weeks, and film a video of the flight of KF-21 and upload it to Wikimedia Commons. I will share the sources I collected with you through this talk page. The KF-21 article needs improvement, but this will be done slowly after gathering enough sources. Don't feel too pressured. Gasiseda (talk) 19:03, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

You did really good job keeping the sources alive and archive. Amazing. What I want to actually do is to do Korean history. I did huge deep dive in Korean history using the certified sources such as Korean History Database, and others. More I do research, whole East Asian history is fake. Three Kingdoms of Korea started in East China. Too many evidences led me to believe this way. And I don't even use those 환뽕 books. Kadrun (talk) 17:47, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

In Wikipedia, archaeology and ancient history are accepted only when proven research data are presented as sources, so I don't like it very much, but it is amazing that you are interested in Korean history.👍 As you know, East Asian history is a controversial field because it presents research materials that scholars of Korea, China, and Japan interpret in their favor, so you should approach it patiently. You should be wary of Pseudohistory (유사역사학) such as Local History (향토역사학) and Hwandan Gogi (환뽕주의), which come out through original research in Korea. I wouldn't be interested in this exhausting field😂 Gasiseda (talk) 19:18, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 18:35, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

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CS1 error on M109 howitzer

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Additional sources for updating articles

Dear Kadrun. It's late, but happy new year. 새해에도 한국의 군사 분야의 영문 위키백과의 기사들을 작성하고 업데이트할 계획이지만 관련 기사들의 출처가 부족해서 향후 5개월 동안은 새로운 기사의 작성이나 업데이트 보다는 기존 기사들의 아카이브화 작업 (제일 골치 아픈 깨진 링크들을 하나하나 일일이 찾아서 복구해야하는 K9 Thunder같은 300개가 넘는 레퍼런스가 첨부된 기사들)과 Wikimedia Commons에 이미지를 추가하는 작업만 할 것 같습니다.

또한 최근 국방과학연구소의 홈페이지에서 2016년도에 홍보책자로 제공된 PDF파일에서 기존 기사의 대대적인 개선에 도움이 될 만한 소스들을 많이 찾았는데, 해당 PDF파일의 내용에는 현무, 천마, 천궁, 구룡, 해성과 같은 미사일 및 로켓 시스템, K200, K21, K9 Thunder, K2 Black Panther와 같은 기갑차량, 백상어, 청상어, 노봉, K-1 기본훈련기와 같은 해상 및 항공 플랫폼과 RPC-999K(최초의 국산 야전용 무전기)나 KGPS(한국형 포수조준경)같은 그 동안 많이 알려지지 않았던 국산무기체계에 대한 새로운 내용들이 많이 있어서 기사를 개선하는데 도움이 될 것 같습니다. 해당 PDF 파일은 아래에 링크해두었으니 천천히 살펴보시면 되겠습니다. 오늘부터 저는 K2, K9, KF-21 보라매와 같은 기사들에 대한 Wikimedia Commons 이미지 작업을 주로 할 예정으로 기사에 대한 업데이트는 Kadrun님께 안심하고 맡기고 떠납니다. 2023년에도 더 나은 기사를 위해 힘써주셔서 감사했습니다.[1]

아뇨. 정말 고생 하셨습니다. 매번 어떻게 저 많은 걸 관리하고 정리하시는 지 감탄할 나름입니다. 전 개인적인 일로 바쁜 나머지 수정작업을 할 겨를이 없습니다. 아직 KF-21 건은 기억하고 있으니 시간이 나면 K1EX/K1AX 문서와 KT-1 부터 싸그리 정리할 예정입니다. 2023년 고생하셨습니다. Kadrun (talk) 18:14, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

한국 무기 역사적 부분에 대해서는 오원철 비서님이 쓰신 "한국형 경제건설" 5권(?) 과 한경에 쓰인 회고록이 가장 중요합니다. 70~80년대 무기 개발과 수출을 담고 있는데 전 구할수가 없습니다. 이것 찾아보시면 어느정도 찾으시는 답들이 나올겁니다. Kadrun (talk) 18:16, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

중고서점에서 국내에 몆권도 안되는 고 오원철 경제수석이 집필한 한국형 경제건설 5권을 찾아서 샀는데 책의 두께도 두껍고 내용이 방대하더군요 1960년대부터 시작된 국내 방위산업에 역사가 세세하게 나와있어서 솔직히 조금 놀랐기도 했고 그냥 단순히 소장용으로만 보관하고 있기에는 아깝다는 생각이 들어서 책을 디지털 스캔 방식으로 PDF로 제작하려고 하고 있는데 책의 내용과 페이지 분량도 너무 많아서 완성된 PDF파일은 아마 4월쯤에 작업이 끝날 것 같습니다. 책을 한장씩 칼로 잘라서 일일이 수작업으로 스캔을 해야하기 때문에 시간이 좀 오래 걸릴 것 같습니다. 디지털 제본 작업이 끝나는대로 여기에다가 PDF파일을 링크로 답글을 달아드리겠습니다.

또한 최근에 Wikimedia Commons에 이미지나 비디오를 업로드하고 있는데 한국과 관련된 위키미디어 이미지들의 분류(category)조차도 제대로 되어있지 않거나 엉망인 것도 많아서 당분간은 기사 작업은 되도록이면 자제하고 Wikimedia Commons에서만 작업을 하려고 하고 KF-21의 썸네일 이미지도 조만간 교체해야하고 할건 진짜 많은데 혼자 하기에는 여간 귀찮은게 아니네요. Gasiseda (talk) 13:05, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

득템하신 거 축하 드립니다. 말한대로 70~80년대 잘 알려지지 않은 엄청난 내용들이 들어있습니다. pdf 주시면 저야 감사하지요. 전 해외 거주하는지라 그런 걸 구하기가 쉽지 않네요. 그래도 한국 서점 있으니 확보 가능한지 알아봐야할 것 같습니다. Kadrun (talk) 00:50, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Kadrun. Thank you for your work on K100 Jeep. Another editor, SunDawn, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Good day! Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia by writing this article. I have marked the article as reviewed. Have a wonderful and blessed day for you and your family!

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 16:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

끝났습니다.

디지털 스캔을 처음 해보는거라서 결과물이 좀더 완벽했으면 좋겠지만 제가 구한 책이 출간한지 20년이 훌쩍넘은 낡은책이라서 고해상도 화질로 스캔작업을 한다고 시간이 더 오래걸렸습니다. 작업을 하다가 간간히 책을 훑어보았는데 1970년대 당시 열악했던 중화학공업과 방위산업을 육성하기 위한 여러가지 노력들을 알 수 있는 정말 귀한자료들이 많더군요.

당시 열악했던 국내안보 및 산업환경에 대한 비교적 자세한 설명도 포함되어 있고, 책의 스토리중 거의 절반 이상을 차지하는 국방과학연구소의 관한 에피소드와 최초의 국산 견인포라고 할 수 있는 KH178 및 KH179 개발에 대한 일화도 소개되어 있어서 출처가 부족했던 해당 위키관련문서들을 업데이트하는데 도움이 많이 될 것 같습니다.

그리고 또 한가지 Kadrun님께 한가지 부탁드릴 것이 있는데 제가 당분간은 기사작업은 신경을 쓰지 못할듯해서 제가 그 동안 신경썼던 Agency for Defense Development 문서를 업데이트하는데 도움을 부탁드릴까합니다. 1970년에 설립된 이후로 국내 무기체계개발에서 지금도 핵심적인 역할을 맡고 있는 ADD 문서의 내용이 너무 빈약하다는 생각이 들어서요. 고 오원철 경제수석이 집필한 내용을 바탕으로 제가 직접 해보고싶지만 아시다시피 저는 원어민도 아닌지라 저런 복잡한 내용들을 영어로 번역하는 것은 절대 불가능하고, 또한 이전부터 신경쓰였던 Defense industry of South Korea 문서도 영알못인 제가 함부로 건드리기에는 너무 벅차구요. 아 물론 강요하는 것은 절대 아니고 그냥 시간적 여유가 되신다면 부탁드린다는 말씀입니다 ㅎㅎ

책은 총 592 페이지로 이루어져있고 글자를 읽기 편하도록 고해상도로 스캔작업을 한거라 PDF파일의 용량은 362MB입니다. 책의 내용이 워낙 방대하니 천천히 정독하시는 것을 추천드립니다.[2]

Wow bravo. This is what I was looking for. I will do what I can do with this. Thank you very much. You rock! Kadrun (talk) 20:43, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Can you update K2 Black Panther?

I found an article with an interview with Dr. Kim Eui-hwan (former ADD's director of tank development department), who was the head of the K2 tank development program.
There is also a really important fact in his interview. In the meantime, the Polish people have claimed that K2 does not have an isolated hull rack (isolated ammunition depot), but Dr. Kim mentions that K2 is designed as an isolated hull rack. I think his interview article will help improve the history section of K2. I hope you can help update the article.
Sources :[3][4] Gasiseda (talk) 03:06, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

What is isolated hull rack in Korean? What I did to K2 Black Panther was 50~60% of the interview (designers), but I saw all interviews. I probably remember what that is. Kadrun (talk) 17:25, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

This word seems to be called in many ways in Korea, but I don't think it's a common term in Korean. Sometimes it's called a "분리형 탄약보관소" or a "격리된 탄약보관소".

One of the false rumors about K2, which has been widespread among Polish since 2020, was the claim that ammunition stored in autoloaders and lower hulls would not protect crews if it exploded. Like Soviet (T-80) and Russian tanks (T-90) where all crews inside the hull die in the event of an ammunition explosion.

In the interview, Dr. Kim mentioned this:

K2는 포탑 꽁무니(맨 뒤끝) 쪽에서 자동 장전이 되는 방식으로 포탄이 승무원과 완전히 분리돼 있으며 나머지는 차체 맨 아래 장갑으로 보호되어 있다[5]
K2 is completely separated from the crew in such a way that the shell is automatically loaded from the back of the turret (16 shell), and the rest of the ammunition is kept under the hull and protected by armor (24 shell)

As Dr. Kim said, K2 is loaded with 16 shells in a bustle-type autoloader device behind the crew cabin, and the other 24 are stored in the lower part of the hull. He also clearly mentions that the autoloaders and lower hulls where ammunition is stored are isolated from armored cabins to protect the crew. Gasiseda (talk) 22:12, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

That's weird claim, because you can see the autoloading video that feeds ammunition from separate bustle through the small gate. The video has been available since 2008. Kadrun (talk) 08:36, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think they even know that there is a blowout panel on the top of K2's turret. Wrong claims by Polish are mentioned too much on influential Twitter and some claim that the K2 explodes like a Russian tank. These widespread rumors need to be corrected. Gasiseda (talk) 02:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

That's what exactly I was going to say. If it's open cased, then what's the point of the blowout panel lol. Kadrun (talk) 18:31, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

K9 Thunder

As DAPA's press release indicates, the new round, believed to be K315, which started production this year in Poongsan, has a range of about 53 km, a 30% increase over the existing K307. This round is not the K315 ERM with a range of 60 km.

If calculate based on the data released so far, we can get the following estimates:

K307: 40.6 km (I confirmed that the maximum range of the K307 round displayed in the booth in Poongsan is 40.6 km)
K315: 40.6 km + 12.18 km (30%) = About 52.7 km[6]
K315 ERM: 40.6 km + 20.3 km (50%) = About 60 km[7]

When I visited ADEX 2023, I asked the Poongsan official and he said that the new round that will be produced from 2024 had a range of 54 km. The improved K315 ERM, modified as a smaller TNT charge and solid fuel propellant with a range of 60 km mentioned in a news release from Janes in October 2023, is still under development and has no production plans. Gasiseda (talk) 10:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

And i was able to download the brochure of CN98 howitzer provided by Hyundai WIA in ADEX 2023. I forgot to give you this until now.[8] Gasiseda (talk) 13:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I believe it's the same ammunition. For example, Janes picture is the K315 (unless the name K315 itself is wrong, the K315 appeared in Hanwha page years ago. It originally said 30% increase in range, but then it also said 50% increased maximum by various news agency. So it is either:

1) K315 is wrong name. Or ERM = K315.

2) K315 (or new ammunition) has 30% ~ 50% increase range.

3) We are not only talking about HE round. We also talk about DP-ICM as well.

4) It could be 50% increase for DP-ICM (36 km x 1.5 = 54 km) and 50% increase for HE type (41 x 1.5 = 60 km).

5) We need to know more details to verify this info. Kadrun (talk) 15:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, they're just the same on the outside, but Jane's report mentions that the internal charges and propellants have been improved. The 155 mm round, which has the longest range in the Korean military, has been K307, and DAPA's news reports say it has increased by more than 30%, suggesting that this round, which is actually in the mass production stage, has a range of about 53 kilometers or 54 kilometers, and most press releases released so far say 53 km or 54 km. Gasiseda (talk) 05:26, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

"more than" 30%. Per my previous searches, 54 km range first appeared few years ago (was it 2022?), and it was nearly to be adopted. But during testing, they found few (2~3? I don't remember exact) problems. Then early this year they started to say 60 km range. Kadrun (talk) 16:25, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

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