Kipjes

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Proposed deletion of Robin van roosmalen

The article Robin van roosmalen has been proposed for deletion because under Wikipedia policy, all biographies of living persons created after March 18, 2010, must have at least one source that directly supports material in the article.

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A page you started (Yodwicha Por Boonsit) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Yodwicha Por Boonsit, Kipjes!

Wikipedia editor Rubaisport just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Please add references for the matches listed in Muay Thai record section

To reply, leave a comment on Rubaisport's talk page.

Learn more about page curation.

Hi

You are right about Badr. And you have evidence he's record is fake. Glory keeps his Wikipedia or his lying record.

@.karellian-24 Yeah, it's frustrating because there are some diehard fans out there who can't admit it's wrong. The guy reverting my changes every time seems to be solely focused on Moroccan people, so I assume it's some national pride thing.

No he is not. If you think that all the organisations he fought with, were using a fake record, you are dumber than your name. we use the official records that are also used by Glory, just like fighters like Verhoeven and BenSaddik. wikipedia is not a platform for Verhoeven fans who come up with miserable arguments because they have seen an old movie with some kind of record, here we use the official figures. if you doubt his record, go have a conversation with Glory and don't ruin wiki pages, its your word against the official numbers, so who are you. this discussion is now closed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.21.157.14 (talk) 18:52, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Read my explanation on the talk page. You keep talking about his "official Glory record", but his Glory record says he's lost 14 times, while we know he has 16 losses. He also gained 9 wins out of thin air between the Saki and Samedov. Als0, please refrain from insulting people. Kipjes (talk) 22:15, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

First of all, Hari fought 122 matches and lost 15 of them, not 16. He had a win against Gerges and was turned into a “No contest”, so 106 wins + 15 losses + 1 No Contest = 122 fights. Glory didnt updated his record on the site yet, that is why it still says 14 losses. But you don’t know this because you are not aware of the situation and or how this sport works. 31.21.157.14 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 01:37, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

First of all, I'd like to ask you to stop with the ad hominems. I am actually very well aware of how this sport works because I've been involved in the sport for 20+ years. If you would just count the losses on Hari's wikipedia page, you'd see he has 16 losses (Grandjean, Mrabet, Rudin, Iganshov, Leko, Graham, Karaev, Bonjasky 2x, Overeem, Schilt, Gerges, Samedov, Verhoeven 2x, and Adegbuyi). The Gerges NC doesn't even come into it. That's 16 losses and 1 NC. Also, if you look up the Gerges fight in Glory, you'll see Hari's record is announced as 106-13, which means 1 loss is already missing there. Ergo, his Glory record is incorrect. You seem to be incredibly sure of your case that Hari has 106 wins, but please explain to me where the 9 extra wins on his record come from between the January 2012 Saki fight and the May 2013 Samedov fight? I have provided you with evidence that Hari's record was 35-1 in 2002, coming from a documentary he himself was the main person in, and have shown that the record in the Saki fight can only be true if he had dozens of undocumented fights. I have also shown wins were added to his record between his last It's Showtime fight and his Glory fights. If you are so sure he has 106 wins, please provide evidence of these fights. If you can't, his record should either reflect his documented fights on wikipedia or we can add these to his first known record of 35-1, which was provided by himself. So the onus is on you to provide evidence for the 32 missing fights. Kipjes (talk) 02:53, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

So your whole assertion consists of a record bar from a 2002 documentary? It is a joke if that is your evidence. This is Wikipedia and we use the OFFICIAL number given by the Organisations. Again, if you want to discus subjects lije this, just open a forum and talk about it, here we use official numbers, not some numbers made by a internetdetective. 31.21.157.14 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 12:41, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Are you purposely being obtuse? I've given 3 instances in which Hari's record doesn't match up with his verified fights. His record in the Saki fight doesn't match up with the record he himself gave to the makers of the documentary and the recorded fights he had in the meantime. His record in the Samedov fight doesn't match up with the number of fights and the record reported in the Saki fight, and his record in the Gerges fight is incorrect as well. Also, Glory is a promotion, not an official organisation governing the sport, and has just as much to say about records as any other promotion. That is, nothing. They're businesses, not governing bodies. If you want to call Hari's Glory record official, then his It's Showtime record in the Saki fight is just as official and these two don't match up. Once again, if you assert Hari has 106 wins with 92 (T)KOs, please provide evidence of that record. Right now we only have the verified fights that are already on his Wikipedia page and an early record provided by himself. You yourself just said "This is Wikipedia and we use the OFFICIAL number given by the Organisations". In that case, please explain where these extra 9 wins between his last It's Showtime fight and the Samedov come from and provide evidence of these fights happening. Also, if he had 100 wins in the Samedov fight and won 5 verified fights between then and his Glory debut, please provide evidence of that 6th win that would make it 106, because that one isn;t on his wikipedia page either. Kipjes (talk) 13:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Also, to add to what I just wrote, your assertion that "This is Wikipedia and we use the OFFICIAL number given by the Organisations" is wrong. Robin van Roosmalen was announced as having a record of 40-7 with 21 (T)KOs in his last Glory fight, but his record on wikipedia is 51-18-3 with 13 (T)KOs. Glory as an organisation is not the curator of records. Kipjes (talk) 14:06, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

You really think a huge organisation as Glory don’t do their research? Your “evidence” exist of some records they showed at fights, who says they put on the right records? Hari is a fight of the organisation Glory, and we follow their official record they have for Hari. I am not discuss this with you anymore, deal with the facts. This conversation is over, suppose to you to open a forum if that pleases you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.21.157.14 (talk) 17:58, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

This is now just getting bizarre. You keep moving the goal posts in this argument. Let's just go through all your arguments one by one.

1) "its your word against the official numbers". There are no official numbers. There no governing body that keeps track of fight records. Glory is a business and can say whatever they want. Glory sometimes provided inaccurate records, like in the Hari-Gerges fight, where there is a loss missing from Hari's record and in the RvR-Petch fight, where we know RvR had more fight and less KO victories.

2) "First of all, Hari fought 122 matches and lost 15 of them, not 16." We literally have evidence of all 16 losses.

3) "Glory didnt updated his record on the site yet, that is why it still says 14 losses." Even with 15 losses, it would still be wrong.

4) "So your whole assertion consists of a record bar from a 2002 documentary? It is a joke if that is your evidence." Nope, his record from the documentary plus the fights until the Saki fight do not produce the numbers presented as his record in the Saki fight, the numbers in the Samedov fight don't make sense if his Saki record was true and his record against Gerges has a win too many and a loss too little if the Samedov record would be true. That's 3 instances.

5) "This is Wikipedia and we use the OFFICIAL number given by the Organisations." Not true, look at RvR Glory record and his record on wikipedia. If we only count A-class fights, he has less fights than his Glory record, if we count everything he has more.

6) "You really think a huge organisation as Glory don’t do their research?" If they do, it would be easy enough for you to ask them to give you the evidence of the records. Right now, you're just making an assumption they have that evidence and you have provided none of your own.

7) "Your “evidence” exist of some records they showed at fights, who says they put on the right records?" What is it? Are we doing what you said ("This is Wikipedia and we use the OFFICIAL number given by the Organisations") or are we just going to make things up now? It's Showtime was the biggest promotion in Europe at the time of the Saki fight. People working for It's Showtime went on to work for Glory. Even Simon Rutz, the guy who started It's Showtime, worked for them for a while. The It's Showtime record is just as legitimate as the Glory record.

Now, the only thing you have done until now, is throwing out ad hominems and not putting up any evidence for what you claim is Hari's real record. to add to that, you keep moving the goal posts in the argument and contradicting yourself. Just start by explaining where the 9 fights between the Saki and Samedov fight came from, provide evidence of these fights and explain why there's a win extra on Hari's Glory record and why there's a loss missing. Kipjes (talk) 23:39, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Your concerns about sockpuppetry

If you have concerns then you can raise it at WP:SPI, though they will not link an IP address with a named account. WP:DUCK applies in those situations. GiantSnowman 13:56, 1 January 2021 (UTC)