User talk:Paleface Jack/Leatherface (Revision)

Collaboration

So I have created this article for use in this (hopefully) collaborative expansion. I do have a couple of ideas that we can start off adding to the article before we go finding more information independently. One easy way to add some "starter content" would be to incorporate information on the character that can be found in the many articles on the franchise that are found on this site. This alone would be a great start to the project as the information is already published and available on this site. Another idea would be to start off in the order of the content listed in the article that way we are not doing "popcorn expanding" (expanding all over the place rather than concentrating on one area at a time). Hopefully this helps anyone who is willing to work on this with me.--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Appearances Section

As the recreation and expansion of this article is under way, with invaluable contributions from Bignole, I have noticed that the appearances section of the article still needs some work on it. The films sub-section could use a little sprucing up with balanced and brief coverage of the character in each film they appear in. The reason I'm saying this is that the coverage that details the remake franchise should be split up as it feels like it is covering only the 2003 remake. I will add the information on Texas Chainsaw 3D and the upcoming prequel but in all this is a fantastic start as we expand this article. Thanks for the help.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:25, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I don't know about split up so much as there just needs to be something on the last film. It was written well before that one ever came out. So, add a blurb about that film. Seems simple enough. The other films are all covered.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 02:35, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Sorry about that I should have been more specific. I am trying to have the wording similar to the appearance section in the article on Jason Voorhees. I have already started working on it, so thanks for the advice. We do need to start working on the reception and expanding the popular culture sections. I will try to work more on the concept and creation sections, I will let you know if I need help with that. Thanks for the assistance.--Paleface Jack (talk) 02:44, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Are there better sources that we can use in the film sub-section?--Paleface Jack (talk) 02:51, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Better than the films themselves?  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:06, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

True, I'll add some additional sources to them just cause.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:35, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Leatherface has appeared in several novels since his first appearance yet it is never mentioned in the article. We need to add this to the article, including novelizations of the films as well as original stories.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:05, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

What novels?  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 16:27, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

There is one novelization of the remake, I will try to see if there are any more.--Paleface Jack (talk) 00:53, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

If there's only the one, I wouldn't even bother creating a "novels" section. I would say "Literature" and just lump it in there.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 02:00, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Good Idea. Also I was wondering why you changed my edits to the film appearance section?--Paleface Jack (talk) 02:19, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Which? I only moved the one film down and then reworded the sentence for clarity.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 12:15, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Never mind. we do need to get more people in on this project though.--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:00, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Concept and Creation section

I have been working on the concept and creation section of this article for a while now, getting everything together and stuff like that. However I do need information on who designed the character and their masks in each of the films if available.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:39, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

I have been adding more information on the character's concept and creation, including each actor's experience with the character. However, we will need to polish it a bit, and if possible, I need someone to either find more sources that either give additional information or re-state information already found in the article. I also need help adding pieces of information that I might have missed from the sources that I have cited in the article. Thanks for all your assistance.--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:47, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Help Needed: On the Topic of Collaboration

As expansion for this article is in full swing I have noticed that the whole scope of the article is far bigger for just two people to expand. So far it has just been me and Bignole expanding this article and we have made some incredible progress, however in order to lighten the load on both of us so we can each focus on one section I need some more collaborators that are willing to help expand the article. It doesn't matter how many people focus on the same section, only the fact that someone is willing to help is the main thing. The Appearances section so far as that goes doesn't need any expansion other than adding more information on the character's appearances in literature. For now, I am going to focus on the Concept and creation section, specifically the "Men Behind the Mask" sub- section, but people are more than welcome to help me expand that one as well. Other sections that need expanding are Development sub-section (each director's take on the character and the development of the character in each film), Popular culture section, and reception section. If needed a characterization section could be added and expanded upon if the information is not covered in the "Concept and Creation" section, we also need an editor who is willing to adjust and add citations, clean up writing and the like. This is a big project, something that can only be done if we have all the help we can get so please let me know in this talk page if you are willing to help with this project and what you are willing to work on.--Paleface Jack (talk) 20:38, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Haven't been able to find any information on Robert Jacks who portrayed the character in Next Generation, might just have to go with interviews from other crew members who talk about the actor. Also I am going to add some information about unused concepts of the character from Chainsaw 3D.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I also noticed that there aren't any special features on the DVDs for either version of The Next Generation (there hasn't been a Blu-Ray yet), so information on Robert Jacks might be a little harder to find. There was a rare "Making of" documentary leaked onto YouTube, but I'm not sure if it's still there. I don't know if the uploader was reliable. DarkKnight2149 18:17, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Figures.--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:53, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm having trouble finding information on Jacks as well. It would seem that he passed away in 2001. I'll keep looking, though. DarkKnight2149 22:12, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

If not information directly on him then other cast member's experiences with the actor on set. If not it's alright.--Paleface Jack (talk) 22:46, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Here's a good source:

http://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/a-double-date-with-leatherface/

--Paleface Jack (talk) 19:34, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Small Rewrites

Looking over the article, I've noticed that there are some repeated word usages in the beginning sentences of each paragraph in the Characterization section. Words like "In (film title)" could be rewritten to be more like, "Leatherface evolved from mentally retarded victim to sadistic serial killer (n the remake series)" just to use one example. Also placement is everything and wee need to place all information on the character's design in the development section. This article is looking good, we still need to do a lot of work to it though before we publish it and make it an FA. Keep up the great work!--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:09, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for pointing it out. DarkKnight2149 19:59, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

No problem. Starting to get a little worried about the upcoming film (although there is talk that it will appear at Cannes... Hopefully it shall get released, my best bet it it will since they have been coming out with new production info... We shall see.--Paleface Jack (talk) 00:57, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

I was also thinking we could expand the lead to Featured Article length, similar to Jason Voorhees, when we have enough sources. I'm probably going to address those repetition concerns pretty soon. DarkKnight2149 22:34, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Good idea. I still have plenty of sources that we can add still.--Paleface Jack (talk) 23:47, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

More Sources

Here are some more sources we can use for the article. I will try to use some of them as best I can, but feel free to include them and their information.

Google Books:

Cannibalism in Literature and Film By J. Brown

Texas Confidential: Sex, Scandal, Murder, and Mayhem in the Lone Star State By Michael Varhola

Heritage Vintage Movie Posters Signature Auction #603

The Texas Chain Saw Massacre Companion by Stefan Jaworzyn (I don't have access to it)

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre Jennifer Janes

The Texas Chain Saw Massacre By James Rose

Legacy of Blood: A Comprehensive Guide to Slasher Movies By Jim Harper

The Dread of Difference: Gender and the Horror Film edited by Barry Keith Grant (has a lot of good info)

Johnny Gruesome By Gregory Lamberson (Mentioned)

Horror and the Horror Film By Bruce F. Kawin

--Paleface Jack (talk) 00:38, 10 March 2017 (UTC) --Paleface Jack (talk) 18:13, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Got some more sources:

• David Roche (6 February 2014). Making and Remaking Horror in the 1970s and 2000s: Why Don’t They Do It Like They Used To?. Univ. Press of Mississippi. ISBN 978-1-61703-962-1. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) Pages: 29, 42, 92, 165, 209
• Barbara Jane Brickman (1 March 2012). New American Teenagers: The Lost Generation of Youth in 1970s Film. Bloomsbury Publishing. ISBN 978-1-4411-7677-6. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) Pages: 179–190, 192, 205, 208
• Michael Varhola (15 June 2011). Texas Confidential: Sex, Scandal, Murder, and Mayhem in the Lone Star State. Clerisy Press. ISBN 978-1-57860-459-3. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) Page: 214

( Robin Wood (10 July 2003). Hollywood from Vietnam to Reagan . . . and Beyond. Columbia University Press. ISBN 978-0-231-50757-8. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) Pages: 80-84, 113, 249

• Hilary Radner; Rebecca Stringer (22 March 2012). Feminism at the Movies: Understanding Gender in Contemporary Popular Cinema. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-136-51912-3. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) Page: 293
• Caroline Joan S. Picart; John Edgar Browning (16 July 2012). Speaking of Monsters: A Teratological Anthology. Palgrave Macmillan US. ISBN 978-1-137-10149-5. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• John Kenneth Muir (2 February 2002). Eaten Alive at a Chainsaw Massacre: The Films of Tobe Hooper. McFarland. ISBN 978-0-7864-4461-8. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• Michael Aloisi (October 2012). Unmasked: The True Story of the World's Most Prolific, Cinematic Killer. AuthorMike Ink. ISBN 978-0-9852146-7-8. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• Jason Paul Collum (7 April 2004). Assault of the Killer B's: Interviews with 20 Cult Film Actresses. McFarland. ISBN 978-0-7864-1818-3. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

--Paleface Jack (talk) 20:33, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

The Structure Duscussion

Finally have gotten back to working on this article (although it may not be the massive expansions I did early on). I reexamined the article and I noticed some issues with the structure that need to be fixed and reorganized. I will list some of the following that I've noticed:

Development - Development section is missing information on the character's development in the films TCM3, TCM: Next Gen, TC3D and Leatherface which needs to be added to the article. I have found that in the characterization section there is some information from the Leatherface film that should be moved to the development section of the article as well.

Men Behind the Mask - Men Behind the Mask section is missing information on some of the actors who have portrayed the character over the years. Any mention of Robert Jacks, who portrayed the character in Next Gen, is missing from the article and should be added to the article no matter how brief it is. Since it's unknown at the moment who portrays the character in the upcoming Leatherface film, we will need to wait until the film is released before adding any info from that film. I also think that some of the info I added on the actor from the remake series should be moved to the characterization section since some of it discusses the character's personality.

Characterization - I have several ideas for this section so as to make it more clear. Apart from the characterization of being mentally disabled, each film has their own interpretation of the character. We can split this into subsections, there are several different ideas on possible categorizations of each subsection which are listed as follows (each should start with the character's core characteristics):

2. The core characterization of the character and the differences in each film.
4. The different timeline characterizations of the character (Original + TCM2; Lionsgate timeline; Remake timeline; and Next Gen timeline)
6. The various characterizations in each film/film series.

--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:22, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

@Paleface Jack: Regarding the Characterisation, I have it broken into multiple paragraphs (though I'm still working on expansion). The first paragraph is for the original film, the second paragraph breaks down his charactersations in each of the original sequels (TCM2, TCM3, and The Next Generation). The third paragraph is for Texas Chainsaw 3D and Leatherface (2017). The fourth paragraph is for his characterisations in other media adaptations, such as comic books and video games. I haven't gotten around to the remake version (2003-2006) yet.

As for Men Behind the Mask and Development, some of the sources that I recently bookmarked might help. DarkKnight2149 21:58, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Alright thanks. I was going to work on the remake series myself. I will let you know later.--Paleface Jack (talk) 22:32, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I'll focus my attention on the characterisations from the other media and Texas Chainsaw 3D in the meantime (as well as any information that comes from the links that I bookmarked). DarkKnight2149 23:49, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

I am still trying to find some sources for a statement that I did in the characterization section on the remake series. Where PD (Platinum Dunes) modified the character's personality from frightened child to sadistic serial killer. I know that there was some source that stated this but I forgot where. :( Oh well. I am going to find more sources for the remake characterization.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:05, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

The Edits and Expansion: Problems and Solutions/Questions and Answers

I'm starting this section so people can post any problems/questions on edits as well as answers and solutions to any problems or questions that may arise during the editing/expansion process. Feel free to post here in a sub-section.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:12, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Unknown Page Number

Since I created this section, it seems funny to me that I'm the first one posting here. Anyways I have found a good source from google books that would help fix citations 64 and 65. Since I want to convert all book citations into the sfn format and adding the books names to the bibliography section, an alternate source for these references are needed since they list the same source twice. However the preview of the information on google books doesn't list the page numbers so I might have to find a physical copy of the book if I can. If there is any way to avoid getting a physical copy that would be helpful.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:19, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

@Paleface Jack: Just a heads up, the link for citation #108 is also broken. I'm about to fix 109 using Web Archive. DarkKnight2149 23:22, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Yay, broken citations! :(--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:20, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

IMDb Changes?!

So I was looking up the character on IMDb and I came across this article that notes that ALL character pages will be turned off on December 6 of this year! That is unfortunate, but not extremely major. I guess we will have to find some different external links for this and other characters since every film character uses IMDb as an external link. Here's a link to the article in question: Changes to IMDb Characters--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:54, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm Baaaack!

It's been quite a while since I last worked on expanding this "article", and I think that it's about time that I finish the job. That being said, there's still a LOT of work that still needs to be done here. More info on the character's development, and the actors who portrayed him needs to be added with proper citations from reliable sources. I have found a couple of new sources that can be added, although the google books version has no previews so we will need to get a physical copies. If anyone wants to help expand this article please let me know on my talk page.--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:46, 27 October 2018 (UTC) Helmut Krausser (1996). Leatherface: With Vrrooom the Chainsaw. Fischer. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

That's great man, I'll see if I can help out any.★Trekker (talk) 16:50, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks!--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:20, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Tasks to Accomplish

Since this expansion/revision draft is a long way from being complete, I thought I'd give a more detailed list of what we need to accomplish before we can consider transferring this into the actual article. P.S. If there is anything that I miss feel free to let me know. Any information added needs to have proper citations from reliable sources accompanying them.

Here's what we need to do:

• Find and add all of the info/sources that are found on Google Books. This includes the ones that require physical copies as the previews are lacking pages or no previews are given.

• Add more information on the character's development (including that in each film if necessary).

• Reorganized/transfer any information from the Personality section into more appropriate sections/sub-sections.

• Find appropriate images to use in the article and include their links in this talk page. Image links should include their placement in the article, reasons for their inclusion, and caption accompanying the image.

• Any (NOTABLE) references/appearances in popular culture.

--Paleface Jack (talk) 16:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

The Sources Issue

After working on the Begotten article, and looking over other FA class articles, I think that the format of the source will need to be redone in SFN format just to keep with consistency and better flow. We should make sure that all the sources found here are reliable as we go along, section by section since the scope and size of the article dictates we do it as such. I just thought I would put this here before I forget it, and this can always change if need be.--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:16, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Source

I'll be back to add this.

https://bloody-disgusting.com/video-games/3637407/haunting-verdansk-brings-leatherface-jigsaw-call-duty-tomorrow-trailer/

Darkknight2149 03:51, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

https://screenrant.com/texas-chainsaw-3d-interview-dan-yeager/

https://comicbookmovie.com/horror/exclusive-interview-with-dan-yeager-new-leatherface-for-the-texas-chainsaw-massacre-a48994#gs.1g3qf6

Structure revisited

Working on the article a little more I have finally got a good idea as to the structure of the actual article. It shall be as follows

• Appearances (Only official ones on film, literary and other media)

• Concept and creation

• • Development (Only include development of the character if its significant in each film, I.e. Original and any significant revisions to the character in any of the films)
  • Men Behind the Mask (All actors portraying the character, with their hiring, creative process and their experiences)
  • Crafting the Mask (Each film has its own unique design of the character's iconic mask so information pertaining to that will go here)

• Characteristics (Main traits, personality and meaning behind the masks)
  • Personality (Each film had a different personality for the character while also retaining core points on the character)
  • Masks (The original film had a very important meaning and background as to why Leatherface wore the mask, other films might have meaning too so that shall be placed here)
  • Sexual Ambiguity (The original film, and possibly parts of the other films have the notion of the character's cross dressing and how it pertained to his personality)

• Legacy (Everything pertaining to the impact, influence, and reputation)
  • Popular culture (Appearance, references, and lasting impact on popular culture)

--Paleface Jack (talk) 19:35, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Final "to do" list

Finally finishing up this article, there are a couple of things that need to be completed:

• Finding information (Who directed the behind the scenes features of Texas Chainsaw 3D, and Leatherface)
• Finding any additional information on the character's design from the third film
• Copy editing.
• Image gathering

Paleface Jack (talk) 23:00, 28 October 2022 (UTC)