Phlyaristis

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Sources

Hi - sorry, but we can't use Wikipedia articles as references, see WP:RS. Dougweller (talk) 17:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I've figured out what you are doing, but using s.v. that way makes it very hard for readers to verify it. See WP:V. You really need to cite the text more precisely so that a reader can easily find it. I see others have done more or less the same thing. Dougweller (talk) 17:53, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

And in a similar vein, I see you are editing a number of articles on minor Roman deities (such as birth and childhood deities) using various websites. Although these can be a starting point for your research (and one for instance provides ancient sources), they aren't the most reliable resources for a specialized subject like Roman religion. Many of the scholarly sources used for the articles Religion in ancient Rome, Imperial cult (ancient Rome), and Glossary of ancient Roman religion are available online in full or in part. You might look over some of these. You've done a nice job adding ancient sources for Postverta, for instance, but you should be aware that some editors would consider this "original research" unless you also cite modern secondary sources. Cynwolfe (talk) 19:50, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

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		Thanks for your recent contributions! Mike Restivo (talk) 19:10, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

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Autopatrolled

Hi Phlyaristis, just wanted to let you know that I have added the autopatrolled right to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the patroller right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Sadads (talk) 22:06, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

I have granted rollback rights to your account; the reason for this is that after a review of some of your contributions, I believe you can be trusted to use rollback correctly, and for its intended usage of reverting vandalism, and that you will not abuse it by reverting good-faith edits or to revert-war. For information on rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback and Wikipedia:Rollback feature. If you do not want rollback, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Good luck and thanks. Sadads (talk) 22:06, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Cut-and-Paste renaming to Thebe (mythology)

    Thanks for your work on what i called Mythological figures named Thebe -- and that you renamed to Thebe (mythology) by overwriting the redirect with the article's content, and overwriting the old content with a corresponding redirect. I am sure you could tell i was a little over my head in trying to deal with the previous shortcomings of the page, and i am sure i will before too long understand and support most or all of your work on it.
   However, those overwritings are what we call a "Cut-and-Paste" move or rename, and my first request to you is to study Wikipedia:Moving a page so you understand how to avoid this faux pas in the future. I am making a commitment to carry out the procedure described at WP:C&P (which page you might want to at least glance thru, to have some more concrete sense of why C&P actions have to be fixed).
   Less urgently, i'd like to discuss with you, probably on the talk page accompanying one of those two main-namespace pages, why i did the previous renaming, and why i expect to convince you that "Thebe (mythology)" misdescribes the topic. (I gave substantial thot to making some kind of renaming, but very little to the title i actually chose, and i expect you to have a valuable role in settling on a longer-term name.) I may (depending on timing) move the topic back to the name you found it at, in the course of the "repair", before we have completed or even begun that discussion, but if so, be assured that it would be without prejudice to any otherwise appropriate name change -- including back to your choice if my reasoning doesn't stand up to discussion. (Tho they sometimes require admin privileges to do correctly, history-preserving renamings are even easier than what you had to go thru, and really not a big deal.)
   So thanks again for your valuable attention to Thebe, and i look forward to working with you.
--Jerzy•t 06:33, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I renamed the page mainly for the sake of convenience (too long a title; also won't pop up when one types "Thebe" in the search bar) and consistency ("'Character name' (mythology)" seems to be a commonly accepted pattern for naming articles of this type). I think my reasons are in accord with "Conciseness" and "Consistency" principles of Wikipedia:Article titles#Deciding on an article title. However, I would like to know why you believe the title is misfitting, and will gladly accept suggestions for a more appropriate one.

I do realize that "cut-and-paste" moves are an undesired practice, but given that the target title already existed (as a redirect page), I couldn't use the "Move page" option and didn't know of a better option other than to move content manually. Sorry if this caused any inconvenience; I checked out Wikipedia:Moving a page#Moves where the target name has an existing page as I was typing my reply, and will try to act wiser in the future.

Thank you for the feedback on my edits, and sorry again for any undesired effects my page moving might have had. Phlyaristis (talk) 11:01, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

   I think you were engaging in the kind of BOLD editing that an editor of your experience and insight should, in light of our reliance on many eyes to get where we're trying to go.
   While WP is neither a democracy nor a confederation of WikiProjects, the projects are justifiably often the first place to go when there's a question of how guidelines like NC should be constued in a relevant subject area. (And do recall that guidelines, while generally pretty wise, are secondary to policy, and one policy is IAR: we may have uncovered a problem where particular wisdom has to outweigh the general.)
   That said, here is my reasoning: the pattern of interpreting NC and guidelines is strongly that NAD, so that the appropriate title identifies what the topic is, not what name is involved. An article whose title is Thebe, if not a Dab (and it was handicapped by pretending to be a Dab when i tackled it) should IMO not pretend it describes someone named Thebe when in fact it exists to give an account of what scholars have concluded about the confusion that (AFAI- can see) the Greeks left us in about the many characters who have been called by that name. We have to have Dabs, and they have to be titled so when you are interested in Georgia you go the Georgia Dab, but when you get there, the stereotyped format, and not just the wording, shows you that you haven't reached your article (but hints strongly that you're on the right track). (If we can get articles on at least one of the Thebes, we should have at Thebe either the main one's article (with a HatNote Dab to Thebe (disambiguation) at the top), or a Dab page listing all the articles (but not the article-less Thebes); if Thebe is a list trying to grow into the Field Guide to the Mythological Thebes, the title "Thebe" offends the principle of least astonishment.
   But, as i hinted above, i know little about classical mythology, and i can imagine that it is routine for a half dozen clearly incompatible myths to have been writ about as many characters sharing a name and perhaps some other trivial characteristic; if that is so, the project folks have run up against it, and probably have a good scheme for dealing with it, which may not be reasonable for the NC guidelines to have included. (And (1) i think i've exhausted my wisdom about it, & (2) i want to get back to things i understand a little more intuitively.)
   To change it, w/o C&P, to what you had before, or to some 3rd title, you'll need an admin -- and it would be wasteful to change this at least marginally controversial thing w/o more basis than either of us yet has for our respective position. I suggest you tag it (on its talk page, IIRC) for RM, and draw the attention of editors in the relevant WikiProject(s). You don't have to make my case for me, but someone may complain about it if you fail to at least include an "IMO we can safely ignore the arguments this jerk admin gave me" note. If there isn't an admin involved in the discussion at the project's page, let me know that a move decision has been reached, and i'll carry out the decision whether i agree or not about its wisdom..)
   And since i know you didn't quit reading a couple of paragraphs back, thanks for your patience with my trying to at least touch on every relevant aspect, and fruitful editing.
--Jerzy•t 08:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

   P.S.:If there's no article Thebe (mythology) (and a Dab would be an INCDAB, it could be a Rdr to the pg we've been discussing. For the interim, i think i can make that happen immediately; perhaps that will ease the sting of the fait accompli i created when i fixed the C&P!
--Jerzy•t 08:29, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

   Gosh, i seem to have made an ass of myself: i repaired a C&P a couple of days ago, but in connection with Elena Romero, not with Thebe. I'm too tired to sort out now what i said to you that is helpful and what is just blithering on my part. And i've got multiple commitments tomorrow, and maybe Thurs. Sorry, later.
--Jerzy•t 08:54, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

It's alright.

As for this issue you've raised: "An article whose title is Thebe... should IMO not pretend it describes someone named Thebe when in fact it exists to give an account of what scholars have concluded about the confusion that... the Greeks left us in about the many characters who have been called by that name." Well, what you said makes sense, and in fact may apply not just to this individual article, but to many similar ones as well -- but still, if you check through other articles on Greek mythological characters, including ones that deal with two or more mythical namesakes like the one in question, all have as their title (or as initial component of the title, if disambiguation is needed) the character's plain name, rather than something like "Instances of Name X in Greek mythology". Whether this pattern for title choice is logically correct or not, I don't see why this particular article we're having a discussion about should go against the Consistency principle which I referred to in my previous reply, and which suggests that "the proposed title [is supposed to] follow the same pattern as those of similar articles". That means (to me at least), that either this one title should be left as it is or it should be proposed that all similar articles are renamed in accord with the principle you defend. To make it clear, I do not object to this principle of yours; I'm saying that in my view, it either should be applied universally or not applied at all. I feel that the very "Ignore the rules if they're in the way of improvement" principle you cite is to be followed without losing sense of consistency, otherwise Wikipedia could end up looking confusing and unprofessional, more like a collection of random articles rather than a uniform project.

Sorry if this bit happened to be unnecessarily long, but since you gave quite a detailed presentation of your view on the matter, I decided to respond with the same. I do not intend to reconvince you, and I think we could always come to a compromise if we had to.

By the way, I very much agree that this article is a "SIA" rather than a "disambig". I would have probably made this change myself if you hadn't fixed it before. I now feel obliged to check if there are any similar articles in need of the same correction. Phlyaristis (talk) 20:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

   You need no absolution for your long reply, and your logic abt it is on the mark. (The bad news is that it's inordinately burdensome for me to condense my arguments to a length closer to most colleagues' optimum; maybe it's some kind of good news that i realize i'm the problem rather than the solution.)
   Your analysis is sound, and i think it's clear your original assertion was not just off the top of your head. If i were more fascinated by mythology and better prepared to edit its content, and a better rhetorician, i'd probably try to make the case to the relevant WikiProjects' steady editors; if you think my arguments are sound applied to such articles as a group, perhaps at some point my concern will find a voice thru you, but if it doesn't that's fine.
   Reviewing the specific situation, i see that you did do the C&P (as had the Elena Romero editor), and that i both finished the repair and effected my solution re a naming issue re ER, but i hadn't done either re Thebe. I propose that i fix your C&P move, preserving your naming solution rather than than the one i initially proposed. That's a technical need, not the elimination of an ongoing visible blot, so don't feel pressure to promptly indicate whether you see any difficulty or not.
   Thanks for this constructive collaboration, and please feel free to include me in your stable of C&P-move substitutes, uh, pro res nata.
--Jerzy•t 07:26, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Why, thank you for both the interesting discussion and helping me out with the consequences of my edit, which I did realize were undesired, and was eager to have them fixed. If it is possible to fix it and at the same time preserve the current title (I initially thought it wasn't), then by all means, please do; also, please inform me if any action on my part is needed to perform the fixing, and thanks again. Phlyaristis (talk) 14:20, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

   It seems to me that in a really well designed computer system, no permanent breakage would be possible. In this one, which show signs of substantial cobbling together, a lot of great design provides for coming close to that ideal -- assuming you trust the admins, or trust the stewards and the benevolent god-king to keep up with the admins.
   Uh, just check and be sure you agree with the current title; that can be fixed by (any) admin if i blew it.
--Jerzy•t 15:54, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Kudos to you for your prolific new articles on Greek mythology. Keep em coming!! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:51, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

WP:HEADINGS

goto link in section title(second blue dot) for reason of title link edit of Damasichthon (King of Thebes)Drift chambers (talk) 18:19, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

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Thank you for pointing out. I changed the links to point where they were supposed to. Phlyaristis (talk) 20:48, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

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	Thanks for increasing our coverage of mythology. Drmies (talk) 19:47, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

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The links have been fixed. Thank you for pointing out. Phlyaristis (talk) 22:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

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Fixed. Phlyaristis (talk) 21:08, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

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Fixed Phlyaristis (talk) 21:09, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

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Fixed. Phlyaristis (talk) 17:09, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

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Fixed. Phlyaristis (talk) 18:28, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Tlepolemus and wife

Dear Phlyaristis, I'm hoping you have some idea what this is all about. I'm trying to clean up and source Tlepolemus (which was in a pretty rough state), but cannot figure out what to do with this bit which I've just cut out:

"Polyxo was an islander of Rhodes whose father and friends met with Tlepolemus and his companions on the western shore after he traveled from Athens to Rhodes. The men feasted the youths but soon got drunk on wine and attacked the youths. Polyxo who had an affectionate passion for the young man prayed first to Thanatos, then to Hades then to Persephone and made sacrifice to Hercules to forgive her for the crime against the gods but she hoped that he would understand that she was in love with his son. Then she called on Morpheus and asked for him to lull her father to sleep. Once her father was asleep she committed patricide. Then she fled further into the island of Rhodes with her lover where they were married. The two created three towns in Rhodes where they soon grew bigger and bigger. Soon after the latest king passed on they announced that Tlepolemus would be made King of Rhodes. Their love bonds remained strong for many years until Helen of Sparta reached a suitable age to marry and word reached him from Philoctetes. He told Polyxo that he would be out on official Rhodian business journey."

This all resembles familiar mythological motifs, but I can't find mention of any of it anywhere. I've already removed some material that was whole-cloth fabrication (a nonexistent fragment of Hesiod and a mystery couplet from Apollonius), but this paragraph reads too plausibly for me to simply let it go. You always seem to have sources on the ready, so I turn to you after a day of head-scratching. Thanks, — cardiff | chestnut — 18:46, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, it appears that you have correctly identified this paragraph as containing info that has nothing to do with actual Greek mythology. I've seen the article before and realized how bad it was, so I'm really glad to see it already fixed.

The three primary sources for Polyxo I know of so far are:

• Pausanias, Description of Greece, 3. 19. 9 - 10, which is already referenced in the article.
• Tzetzes on Lycophron, 911. Uses the name "Philozoe" rather than "Polyxo". Relevant info: Philozoe mourned her husband and held funeral games in his honor; youths competed in them, and the winners were crowned with leaves of white poplar. (I'm referring to the original Greek text, available here; I'm not sure if this work has ever been translated in English, but I'm lucky enough to be able to read Ancient Greek).
• Polyaenus, Stratagems of War, 1. 13 available here.

None of these sources mentions a single fact from the passage you quote. I will try and do some more research just so as to be completely sure, but, even though you are correct in pointing out that it seems authentic at first sight, the info is more likely to be of non-Ancient origin; my personal guess is that it comes from some modern mythology-based fiction, but I may be wrong. Phlyaristis (talk) 23:02, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the notes, Phlyaristis, that paragraph has been giving me deletion-guilt. But you have to be right: it's some popular mythological handbook from the last 150 years. Later, — cardiff | chestnut — 23:21, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. And in any case, the page history feature is there for a reason, so that info can always be re-added if proven authentic; no need to feel guilty for deleting something. Phlyaristis (talk) 11:07, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

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Fixed. Phlyaristis (talk) 10:42, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

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Joke

Hi Phlyaristis, last night I was reading Philogelos and came upon a joke about a talkative barber that reminded me of your user name (Philogel. 148):

Εὐτράπελος φλυάρου κουρέως ἐρωτήσαντος·

"πῶς σε κείρω;"

"σιωπῶν", ἔφη.

— cardiff | chestnut — 15:22, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, my username is actually based on the Greek word φλυαρία and is somewhat older than my Wikipedia account; I came up with it back when I had just begun to study Ancient Greek, and it was meant to be a Greek translation of a nickname. I was just wondering if anyone would recognize its "etymology". Oh, and thanks for sharing the joke! Phlyaristis (talk) 18:51, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

here is a good one:

− τίς ἐκαλεῖτο η μήτηρ Πριάμου - Κυρία (Phil. 197) --Odysses (₪) 22:08, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Another side-splitter! My favorite Abderite joke is Philogelos 126:

Ἀβδηρίτης εἰς Ῥόδον ἀποδημήσας ὡς ἐκ τοῦ ὀνόματος τοὺς τοίχους ὠσμᾶτο. — cardiff | chestnut — 22:25, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Here's an oldie: μηδὲ χοῖρον δίκαιον εἶναι ἀναιρεῖσθαι ἧπαρ παρέχοντα (not right to slauter pork since they provide pork liver) Phil. 103.--Odysses (₪) 23:20, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

...καὶ οὖθαρ καὶ βουλβάν! Wareh (talk) 02:59, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Χα χα χα. — cardiff | chestnut — 23:44, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Σχολαστικὸς νοσοῦντα φίλον ἀπῆλθεν ἐπισκέψασθαι. τῆς γυναικὸς δ' αὐτοῦ εἰπούσης, ὅτι ἐκεῖνος ἤδη ἔξω ἐστίν· Ἐὰν οὖν ἐπανέλθῃ, φησίν, ἐρεῖς παραγεγενῆσθαί με. Wareh (talk) 02:59, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Apld.

Hi Phlyaristis, just a heads up since you do the bulk of the mythology work around here: I've moved Apollodorus of Athens from plain Apollodorus to Apollodorus of Athens because 500+ articles just linked to Apollodorus (i.e. of Athens) for the Bibliotheca. Some even assigned the Bibliotheca to the 2nd c. BC and others called it the Chronicle because of the confusion over authorship; so, the move to a disambiguation was needed to stem the tide of error. Plain Apollodorus now redirects to Apollodorus (disambiguation); this will probably be reversed soon, and Apollodorus will simply be the disambiguation page. Later, — cardiff | chestnut — 18:31, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Your change makes a lot of sense, but I think it would be preferable to keep the name "Pseudo-Apollodorus" (rather than the plain title "Bibliotheca") in the references, because it seems like the work is still going to be recognized by the name of who was once thought to be the author, "Apollodorus". I felt this remark was necessary because I saw the name removed from some pages and had to voice my reasons for putting it back. Phlyaristis (talk) 19:15, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Gotcha. I tried to fix the link situation as quickly and efficiently as possible, so I obliterated most of the "Apollodoruses". I'll go back through and reintroduce "Pseudo-Apollodorus", but I think it's probably best not to present it as "Pseudo-Apollodorus" (with the link to Apld. of Athens), since the question of authorship is more a primary issue at Bibliotheca than at Apollodorus of Athens. What do you think? — cardiff | chestnut — 19:23, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I quite like the idea of putting it as "Pseudo-Apollodorus", and I too will be fixing as many of the links as I can. Thank you for collaboration! Phlyaristis (talk) 20:04, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Gotcha ... "Pseudo-Apollodorus" it is. — cardiff | chestnut — 20:15, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but you two just lost me. Surely if Pseudo-Apollodorus means "the author of the Library" then it should link directly to Pseudo-Apollodorus, which is the article on that topic? We link to Pseudo-Longinus, Pseudo-Dionysius, etc., without stopping to determine which Longinus, Dionysius, etc., the author in question is being taken for and then misdirecting the link to that person. I don't mean to be blunt, but this seems like clear commonsense to me, and I'm not yet seeing what I'm missing. Wareh (talk) 00:22, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Makes sense to me—my proposal two posts up was basically to link the title and leave Ps.-Apld. unlinked—, but maybe since it affects so many articles, we should discuss more fully and publicly at Bibliotheca Talk. (And just to explain the background of all this, I went through and replaced every Apollodorus, Bibliotheca x.x.x with Bibliotheca x.x.x.) — cardiff | chestnut — 00:36, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I've opened a thread at Talk:Bibliotheca (Pseudo-Apollodorus)#Citing (and linking) the Bibliotheca. — cardiff | chestnut — 15:51, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Hi Phlyaristis, do you want to chime in at Talk:Bibliotheca (Pseudo-Apollodorus)#Citing (and linking) the Bibliotheca? Awesome addition at Erythemista, by the way. I had no idea that the bibliotheca Augustana had added the Catalogue of Women, apparently with no fear of the TLG's or OUP's copyright warnings! — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 21:46, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I've posted a reply there, thanks for notifying me. Oh, and Laothoe #6 from the respective page is also back (I had previously removed her because of being unable to verify the info, but now that I have seen the original text the info has been restored). Given your concerns over the copyright issues with BA's version of CoW, I'm now in doubt whether it was appropriate on our part to link to it? Phlyaristis (talk) 08:38, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we need to worry about linking it. The TLG itself compiled its database on sketchy copyright principles, and I think one of their justifications was that they were not presenting all the details of a proper edition, just the text, and in the case of fragmentary poems like the Catalogue, just the ipsissima verba fragments, as the BA does. That site has also made some editorial decisions on what to include (like frr. inc. sed. and op.), so they could even argue that their text represents an "edition" in its own right. But, just to let you know, the text isn't all the way up-to-date (see my disclaimer), so if you run into a Cat. reference that seems a bit off, please feel free to drop me a line: I'm currently preparing a new edition of the Hesiodic fragments and have a full bibliography on my hard-drive and kitchen table.

Thanks for replacing Laothoe, wife of Porthaon; I hadn't noticed that you'd removed it. Fr. 26.7 M–W or Merkelbach–West would probably suffice for citation purposes, since the existence of a proper edition does away with the need for including all the papyrological info. (And in the case of citing, say, Cat. fr. 25.40, the full info—Pap. Berol. 9777 recto, ed. Schubart-Wilamowitz; Pap. Oxy. 2075 fr. 1, ed. Hunt; Pap. Oxy. 2481 fr. 5 col. II et 2483 fr. 2, ed. Lobel—would be incorrect: that line is only transmitted by P.Oxy. 2075 fr. 1.) This info was actually what first tipped me off to the possibility that the BA copied-and-pasted from the TLG, because that database includes just that much information for each fragment: the fr. no. followed by the source, that is, the headings in Fragmenta Hesiodea.

Congrats on the Barnstar from Project Greece: you deserve it! — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 14:39, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the nice words, as well as for enlightening me on the issue of Hesiodic fragments. Well, I guess I can ask you for help if I come across a reference to a "Fragment 22" or the like without a source edition specified, which happens quite often. Phlyaristis (talk) 16:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Scholia on Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica, 1.164.

Hi Phlyaristis. In January you added a cite to "Scholia on Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica, 1.164." to Lycurgus of Arcadia. I'm interested in what is said there about Lycurgus and in particular any reference to his father Aleus. but I have no ready access to that source. I was wondering if you might be able to help? Thanks. Paul August ☎ 17:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

The entry I cited reads: "Ancaeus: Of Lycurgus (i. e. Lycurgus of Arcadia) and Antinoe were born Ancaeus and Epochus. He is honored by the Arcadians, according to Aristomenes. Homer also makes mention of Lycurgus: [quotes Iliad 7. 144-145] Lycurgus came upon him at unawares and pierced him through the middle with his spear. Also, a festival named Mōleia is celebrated by the Arcadians, because [i. e. in commemoration of the fact that] Lycurgus, having laid an ambush, vanquished Ereuthalion in a battle. "Mōlos" is another word for "battle" (makhē)". This is a rough translation of the original Ancient Greek text (H. Keil's edition, 1854, of which I happen to have obtained a scanned copy).

As you can see, Aleus is not mentioned. In fact, I included the Scholia on the list of references mainly because of Antinoe, since the consort of Lycurgus is not called that elsewhere.

I'm not sure if the scholia on Apollonius have ever been translated to English at all, but if you can read Ancient Greek, you might want to check the work out here (the edition comprises both the poem and the scholia on it). If anything, I can help with translation of any individual passage.

Hope this helped! Phlyaristis (talk) 19:18, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks alot. Paul August ☎ 20:23, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject Greece Barnstar

		The Barnstar of WikiProject Greece
		For excellent contributions to the project's and Wikipedia's coverage of ancient Greek mythology, I am happy to award you with this token of appreciation! Keep up the good work! Constantine ✍ 12:26, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Minotaur

I'd just go ahead and make the list article if I were you. There have been a couple times that I've tried to get input on Talk pages, waited a few days, and just done what I thought was best.

Also, if you haven't seen it, there's an Italian site that also does some iffy appropriation of TLG texts. Perhaps most useful for your mythological researches is the fact that it has the text of Pfeiffer's horribly expensive Callimachus (gratuitous wikilink to the first article I created). I have Supplementum Hellenisticum checked out of the library, so I can help with any post-Pfeiffer fragments. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 14:41, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not like I'm still expecting response on that issue, but I had decided to wait for at least a week just so as to play fair and make sure no one would get the impression that I was going to ignore the community's opinion (and I certainly wasn't). Well, in case no one objects or suggests otherwise I think I will be creating the page as soon as I find some more good secondary sources to cite. The ones I usually refer to, Rosher's Lexicon and Pauly-Wissowa, are fine but probably not enough.

Thanks for the Italian page, I will be sure to check it out. Phlyaristis (talk) 17:17, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

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Fixed. Phlyaristis (talk) 17:19, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

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Atalante Abantias?

Hi Phlyaristis, at Abantiades (mythology) it says: "A female descendant of Abas, as Danaë and Atalante, was called Abantias." (This is straight out of Smith's Dictionary.) I cannot for the life of me remember or find a text which calls Atalante "Abantias" or a genealogy that would make her a descendant of Abas. Do you have any idea what I'm missing here? Thanks — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 20:37, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, I did some research and I can't find any primary sources for "Atalante Abantias" either. This is actually unsurprising, given that Smith's dictionary does contain factual errors. The German encyclopedias I commonly refer to, Pauly-Wissowa and Roscher's Lexicon, say that "Abantias" only referred to Danae. Yet Harpers Dictionary of Classical Antiquities (1898), as reproduced at Perseus, also claims that "Abantias" referred to Atalanta as well: either the mistake from Smith is being repeated or the two had a common source where it already was present. Either way, I can't see how it could have arisen, since, as you've correctly pointed out, no Abantes are known to have been among Atalanta's possible ancestors. Thus, I think Atalanta's name can be removed from that article without concern. Phlyaristis (talk) 20:41, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

By the way, do you think it makes sense to have an (orphaned) separate article for a patronymic at all? Wouldn't it be better to merge it into Abas (son of Lynceus)? Phlyaristis (talk) 20:48, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this. I'll delete the mention of Atalante. The article was probably written simply because Smith had an entry, so it probably doesn't really need to be here at all, as you say. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 00:34, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

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Demeter

Who Dmia? You add Dmia to Children and consort of demeter. --178.180.144.223 (talk) 11:51, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Dmia was mentioned as the daughter of Demeter and Oceanus by Hesychius of Alexandria. There's a reference at the page. She wasn't mentioned anywhere else, that is why nothing is known about her besides the name. Phlyaristis (talk) 12:03, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Hippodamia

O Phlyaristis, Knower of Much Genealogy of Gods and Heroes
I humbly beseech thee
by means of laurels and bits of really good cheese
to cast thy darting gaze and fierce eye
upon Hippodamia and Hippodamia (wife of Pirithous)
that they might not be confused unto the aeon,
in respect to their abductive weddings
if by chance both did not suffer o'ermuch
from importuning Centaurs.

Well, if you just happen to have this all straight. Maybe both of them really did have their weddings invaded by Centaurs. My knowledge of these figures is glancing at best. Don't mean to trouble you, but thought you might have resources to settle this more expediently than I. If not, no worries. Cynwolfe (talk) 18:55, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, the myth of abduction by the Centaurs only concerns Hippodamia the wife of Pirithous, and I know of no ancient sources that might have conflated the two. Moreover, ancient traditions located the Centaurs in Northern Greece, but not in Elis/Pisatis (at Peloponnesus) where Hippodamia the wife of Pelops was believed to have lived. (The mistake is though easy to make for those infamiliar with mythical geography and could have occurred in some secondary source, but I have yet to find it). I accordingly changed the links and moved the relevant info. Thanks for drawing my attention to it; a large paragraph had already been removed from the wrong Hippodamia's page, and I hadn't noticed that some of the mismatching info was still there. Phlyaristis (talk) 13:50, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I ended up there from Taraxippus, somehow, and was looking for images. Then I realized the two articles seemed muddled, and that I wasn't helping matters, since I didn't really have the time or interest to get them straight. Cynwolfe (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Peneleus

Hi Phlyaristis, hope all's been well. I don't know if you watch Peneleus or the Classics project's talk, so I'm dropping a note here to let you know that I've initiated a move discussion at Talk:Peneleus. Later — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 23:03, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me, I voiced my support for the move. Phlyaristis (talk) 14:14, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd have just moved it if I could, but was blocked by the system because of the redirect. Wareh's right that it isn't always Peneleos, but these days I think it's become the norm (and rightly so for clarity's sake). Do you know of any other -ως's that need to be moved? I notice that you already took care of Gelos; Androgeos has always been where it should be. — ^[dave] cardiff | _chestnut — 14:27, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I can't recall any right now, but I will check. There's Peteos (Peteus), father of Menestheus, but he doesn't have a separate page and is in fact too minor a character to have one. On a side note, I wish Wikipedia used straightforward transliterations of Greek names (like Theoi.com or the German sources do) rather than Latinate spellings, although even then we wouldn't be able to distinguish between Ἅντιφος and Ἁντίφως without use of diacritics; still that would be helpful in terms of getting the idea of correct pronunciation and such. But that seems unrealistic, being that Latinate spellings are part of tradition. Phlyaristis (talk) 14:20, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

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Long time no see

It was pleasant to encounter your name on my watchlist this evening. Welcome back. (This is Cardiffechestnut, by the way: I changed my username.)  davidiad { t } 01:31, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the somewhat belated response, I'm also very glad to hear from you. I've been completely off Wikipedia due to work and involvement in another project, but I hope to return to active editing as soon as possible, maybe in a month or so. Thank you for the message! Phlyaristis (talk) 21:42, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

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Wrong

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lampus&oldid=481056700#cite_note-8 Homer, Iliad, 23. 246; is wrong! Correct Homer, Odyssey, 23. 246; 84.204.220.91 (talk) 19:04, 15 April 2024 (UTC)