User talk:StAnselm/2017

2017

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Hannah Marshall

I hope you don't mind that I've moved Hannah Marshall to draft space as per my edit summary. Schwede66 23:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I do mind, actually - significant roles in two TV shows means the subject passes WP:NACTOR #1. Add stub tags if you need to, but there is nothing wrong with having a stub like this in mainspace. StAnselm (talk) 23:41, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Alice Vaughan.jpg

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On Hammoth-Dor

Hello, St. Anselm. If I am reading the edit history correctly, back in September you put a "clarification needed" tag on on the article Hammoth-Dor. I've cleaned up the relevant sentence. I'm wondering if you now consider it clear enough for me to remove the clarification needed tag. I would do it myself, but I figured since you put it there first, I'd check with you.Alephb (talk) 11:02, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it's all good now - I have removed the tag myself. StAnselm (talk) 11:36, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 January 2017

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Mr Trump listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Mr Trump. Since you had some involvement with the Mr Trump redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 06:17, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

American films category

Hi. Category:American films and the other national categories are non-diffusing. I did the exact same thing and removed the category from a few articles before someone told me that. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:34, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Oh, OK - thanks. StAnselm (talk) 01:53, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Reformed Theological College logo.jpg

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Paige Patterson

I don't understand how an image of the guy (you can definitely see it is the same person) cannot be posted on the page of the actual person. What about public photos taken from newspapers like the Baptist Press? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:92C5:BB00:5E7:630:56C6:1E8F (talk) 01:19, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

No, they are all under copyright. Please see Wikipedia:Image use policy for more details. StAnselm (talk) 01:48, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

no

comment removed per your request Lakeshake (talk) 18:51, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

OK, fine: please remove the new comment you just added. The text there clearly says "Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page," and your comment is in the same section. StAnselm (talk) 20:21, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.2

Hello StAnselm,

A HUGE backlog

We now have 806 New Page Reviewers!
Most of us requested the user right at PERM, expressing a wish to be able to do something about the huge backlog, but the chart on the right does not demonstrate any changes to the pre-user-right levels of October.

Hitting 17,000 soon

The backlog is still steadily growing at a rate of 150 a day or 4,650 a month. Only 20 reviews a day by each reviewer over the next few days would bring the backlog down to a managable level and the daily input can then be processed by each reviewer doing only 2 or 3 reviews a day - that's about 5 minutes work!
It didn't work in time to relax for the Xmas/New Year holidays. Let's see if we can achieve our goal before Easter, otherwise by Thanksgiving it will be closer to 70,000.

Second set of eyes

Remember that we are the only guardians of quality of new articles, we alone have to ensure that pages are being correctly tagged by non-Reviewer patrollers and that new authors are not being bitten.

Abuse

This is even more important and extra vigilance is required considering Orangemoody, and

1. this very recent case of paid advertising by a Reviewer resulting in a community ban.
2. this case in January of paid advertising by a Reviewer, also resulting in a community ban.
3. This Reviewer is indefinitely blocked for sockpuppetry.

Coordinator election

Kudpung is stepping down after 6 years as unofficial coordinator of New Page Patrolling/Reviewing. There is enough work for two people and two coords are now required. Details are at NPR Coordinators; nominate someone or nominate yourself. Date for the actual suffrage will be published later.

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New Page Review-Patrolling: Coordinator elections

Your last chance to nominate yourself or any New Page Reviewer, See Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination. Elections begin Monday 20 February 23:59 UTC. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

New Page Review - newsletter No.3

Hello StAnselm,

Voting for coordinators has now begun HERE and will continue through/to 23:59 UTC Monday 06 March. Please be sure to vote. Any registered, confirmed editor can vote. Nominations are now closed.

Still a MASSIVE backlog

We now have 806 New Page Reviewers but despite numerous appeals for help, the backlog has NOT been significantly reduced.
If you asked for the New Page Reviewer right, please consider investing a bit of time - every little helps preventing spam and trash entering the mainspace and Google when the 'NO_INDEX' tags expire.

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New Page Reviewer

Hi. On its creation on 1 November 2016 you were automatically grandfathered into this new user right. If you are not interested in New Page Reviewing, or if you will not have time to help out in the foreseeable future, please consider asking me or another admin to delist you from this user group in order to keep our stats and records straight. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:04, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	For you WP:HEYMANN rewrite of salvation bracelet. E.M.Gregory (talk) 02:08, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Message on my talk page

Hi,

I'm confused as to why you left a warning message on my talk page. The underlinked tag keps getting removed because there's a program that I use called AutoWikiBrowser which, amongst other things, detects errors in tags. According to its algorithms, that article is not underlinked therefore the tag keeps getting removed. It's semi-automated and works on lists so that article is one in thousands that AWB deals with.

Please remember not to template the regulars as it's patronising and a bit rude really.

DrStrauss talk 20:09, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I've had problems with tools doing things I didn't want - but we still have to take responsibility for our edits. See WP:AWBRULES: "You are responsible for every edit made." Perhaps you need to raise the problem with the tool's developer, or maybe you just need to stop using AWB. With this particular removal, you had done it twice[1][2] - and made no other edits to the article. I had reverted your first removal, but you had ignored that. Anyway, I'm sorry you were offended by the template, but please also see WP:TR. StAnselm (talk) 20:46, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

I suppose so: it's only a minor thing really but I'll raise it with the developers but I make a lot of useful edits with AWB as can be seen in my thanks log so I'm not stopping using it. I knew you'd reply with the rebuttal essay...

Sorry if I came off a bit terse, hopefully we can both bear that in mind in future.

Thank you,

DrStrauss talk 22:17, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

An award for you

	The Namibian Barnstar of National Merit
	A belated thankyou for your work on Namibian topics during the Africa Destubathon! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:25, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

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Moana (2018 film) listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Moana (2018 film). Since you had some involvement with the Moana (2018 film) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. -- Tavix ^(talk) 02:02, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:The Next 100 Years.jpg

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Making Threats Against Others

I see your threat you made at my talk page. If you think I violated the 3RR rule then file for it. But I see you edited it back to what was the previous consensus as I was also doing the same which is not a 3RR violations. Reverting edits that go against the consensus is proper. Maybe before making wild threats you go to the talk page as I asked instead of ASSuming. ContentEditman (talk) 16:32, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Help needed

Hi, I am User:bashereyre. I contribute across the site but principally to the Anglicanism section. This article Michael John Keatinge has been nominated for deletion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael John Keatinge Could you see what you think Bashereyre (talk) 10:36, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Sure. StAnselm (talk) 11:15, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Eltham College UK logo.jpeg

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Congratulations on Ten Years!

You have contributed much! Congratulations on Ten Years on Wikipedia! :)

May God bless you in the years to come. :) Is there any way I can pray for you?

With hope,

TenorTwelve (talk) 21:58, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, as my user page indicates, I'm working on a PhD. I'm very close to the end now - please pray that I can make the remaining corrections before Easter. StAnselm (talk) 06:08, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Good luck. We want to know the outcome. -Roxy the dog. bark 12:41, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Yes, thank you! It's submitted and in the hands of the examiners. :) StAnselm (talk) 20:50, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Torah is not a subset of the Bible

this is not OK. Please don't make these kinds of claims in Wikipedia. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 04:24, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Jews traditionally divide the Bible into Torah, Neviim, and Ketuvim. That makes Torah (in one sense of the word) a subset of the Bible. Getting all huffy about that is ridiculous. Alephb (talk) 11:46, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Part of the issue is - what is The Bible? Jews have Tanakh and Christians have their own versions (which are not the same among Christians; the Catholic Bible has more books than the Protestant Bible see also Christian biblical canons). Most Christians are not thinking Tanakh when they say "Bible" in my experience, they are thinking some version of the Christian Bible. Otherwise they wouldn't get upset when I said "The Bible doesn't include the New Testament" which is perfectly true if;) you are Jewish and talking about your "Bible" and b) if "Bible" is really a term that anybody can use however they want. Jytdog (talk) 01:13, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

The Christian Bibles all include the five books of Moses (a name we can all agree on), which we Jews call Torah, and we don't mind anybody else calling it Torah. Torah is a subset of the Bible in every sense of the word, anybody's Bible, everybody's Bible. See Biblical canon § Old Testament: "All of the major Christian traditions accept the books of the Hebrew protocanon in its entirety as divinely inspired and authoritative." Yes, of course translations differ, but nobody disagrees on the books that are included in the Torah. --Thnidu (talk) 04:22, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Is that quote actually in Wikipedia? Oy we need to fix that. Outside of that what you are saying is true - Torah is in everybody's "Bible". it just not everybody means the same thing by "Bible", and in the context above, naming Abraham as being someone in "the bible" and the quran just excludes (in my view) Jewish traditions about Abraham in a way that is both casual and unhelpful and we really should never do. There is sometimes reason to be sloppy but why be so when there is no need? Jytdog (talk) 04:35, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

If we want to give a shout-out to every possible religious group so that no one feels left out, maybe we should have the infobox read "Torah, Protestant Bible, Roman Catholic Bible, Greek Orthodox Bible, Coptic Orthodox Bible, Tawahedo Bible, Mormon Scriptures." That way all the different Bibles belonging to groups with 15 million members or more are included; all of these religions have populations equal to or greater than the number of adherents of Judaism. Otherwise, some of our readers might think instinctively of Protestant Bibles, without stopping to take a minute to appreciate the full, rich tapestry of religious traditions. Alephb (talk) 01:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Hm! My biggest concern was the very different things Jews and Christians hear and mean with regard to "Bible". Do people actually refer to the Book of Mormon as a "Bible" If so I was completely ignorant of that. Jytdog (talk) 01:46, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh, no, they don't call it the Mormon Bible -- they use the King James Bible. There was a distinctly Mormon Bible produced by Joseph Smith, but it's current status is . . . complicated, in part due to a schism and a legal battle over the copyright. Alephb (talk) 02:01, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

• this is an example of where the problem is very clear, but there are the kind of more subtle things discussed above... Jytdog (talk) 21:55, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

I completely agree that "which Jews do not consider part of the Old Testament" is inappropriate. StAnselm (talk) 01:33, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The Berkeley situation

I went through the course pages and created a list of the Berkeley student project articles by status. Feel free to use it to keep track of the cleanup. – Train2104 (t • c) 00:11, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Joseph Natoli

Justlettersandnumbers has removed much of the Joseph Natoli Wikipedia page. Does this seem justifiable to you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:CA03:4940:49CF:3324:34A3:C4B0 (talk) 21:08, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Draft article on "History of Fair Use proposals in Australia"

As per your original suggestion on the Australian wikipedians' noticeboard - and as 'seconded' by Capitalistroadster and Lankiveil - I and a couple of others (notably Damph & Trishhepworth, and also Tango Mike Bravo) have taken your advice and made the draft article Draft:History of Fair Use proposals in Australia' - an attempt to make a normal Wikipedia article discussing the issue of the various proposals/arguments around Fair Use in Australia over the years. I believe it is now up to beyond-minimum-standard for Wikipedias normal article creation criteria (whilst still not being 'finished' obviously), but I've put it up for article-creation-review just for the avoidance of doubt in case someone is worried my launching the article myself is a COI. If you, or others tagged here, would like to edit and improve the draft article - go right ahead! If you (or others) feel comfortable approving it for mainspace, feel free. Sincerely, Wittylama 13:32, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I don't think it's quite ready for article space yet. There is nothing, for example on the response by Copyright Agency Ltd to proposals (which was mentioned in the original discussion). Also, the "Example use-cases" is very strange: it says "Arguments have included", but the list that follows is of examples, not arguments. StAnselm (talk) 21:12, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Warning

Please discontinue your disruptive editing at Coal mining in Appalachia by blanking the page with a redirect [3]. "disruptive editing...disrupts progress toward improving an article or building the encyclopedia." Please stop and let editors work on content. --David Tornheim (talk) 14:44, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

You are way out of line here. You were seeking to influence the outcome of a move discussion by creating an article at the proposed target. That is certainly tendentious editing. StAnselm (talk) 23:15, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Precious five years!

Precious

Five years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:01, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

... and six! - I began work on our psalms articles, help welcome, next for Psalm 22, model Psalm 84 which can also be improved. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:02, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

May 2017

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you violate Wikipedia's 3rr and edit warring, as you did at Michael Pearl. ContentEditman (talk) 11:41, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. ContentEditman (talk) 12:08, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Henry Adams

Hey, I've seen your revert and read the header of Category:Antisemitism_in_the_United_States. But what's written there is pretty weird, because antisemitism is something completely different than criticism of Judaism. Criticism pre-supposes scholarship, demonstrated by e.g. writing books or articles about the topic, which is not what antisemitism is about. And Judaism refers to the religious beliefs and practices, while antisemitism refers to ethnicity. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:34, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I have no opinions about whether he can be categorised as a "critic", but the scope of the antisemitism categories were fixed a few years ago, and it was decided not to have antisemites in them. This was mainly due to BLP concerns, but it was applied to all biographies. StAnselm (talk) 20:41, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Why do we then allow Category:Anti-communists? Marcocapelle (talk) 08:52, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps because it's less pejorative? People might be much more willing to describe themselves as "anti-communist" rather than "antisemitic". StAnselm (talk) 12:13, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Just in case you don't see

I'm pinging you in a post on WT:CRIC. Courtesy notice so that you are involved in the discussion, if one arises. Bobo. 23:08, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Zeitschrift für Ostmitteleuropa-Forschung.jpg

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Image on Clementine Ford (writer)

Hi there, I just noticed that you removed an image I had added to the Ford article of her book. I took the photo myself and uploaded it, which I thought meant it was ok, but you've taken it down as "copyvio"? Could you point me a policy/page that I can read up on this as I thought a photo taken by oneself was acceptable. Thanks in advance! MurielMary (talk) 13:33, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes, you should have come across it when you uploaded it at Commons, where it says "Works which contain other copyrighted works (derivative works) - these are not permitted, so don't upload them!". Even though you took the photo yourself, the book cover is still under copyright. StAnselm (talk) 18:15, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

I see, thanks very much for pointing that out! MurielMary (talk) 07:18, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Zeitschrift für Ostmitteleuropa-Forschung.jpg

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June 2017

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on The Bible and homosexuality. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

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Homosexuality in the New Testament

Hi StAnselm, I've been trying to get your attention so that you might rejoin the discussion on the talk page of Homosexuality in the New Testament. I'd like to know whether you agree with me that Revelation 21:8 and 22:15 should be discussed in the article in question. MagicatthemovieS (talk) 17:23, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Sorry - I've replied now. StAnselm (talk) 18:15, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

An advice

Hi! i have an advice for you : Improve your knowledge first, then talk about other cultures. i studied literature and i am journalist, it's so simple what means "Proverbial people". --ސ ޚ ލ ٰ ا (talk) 18:15, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Jimmy Neesham

Did you try googling? It's so obviously the name he chooses to use and the one he's most commonly known by. CI and CA have different names for so many historic players - and CI refers to him as Jimmy in many of its articles. But never mind - I'l leave it to you to sort out. Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:23, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, but did you google "James Neesham"? Still lots of recent news articles under that name. E.g "Cricket: James Neesham goes in controversial circumstances". I think you'd need to use WP:RM. StAnselm (talk) 20:38, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Testament

Hi, SA.

As an OT scholar, you may be familiar (or like to know more about this cite): Romer, John Testament: The Bible and History, Abstract. (New York: Henry Holt & Co., 1988). I have cited the book @ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Irenaeus&diff=697775004&oldid=697773019 in the section Making the Choice: Irenaeus of Lyon, pp. 198-202 (for an Edit described as: 2nd para.,last sent.↑2:His polemic credited for laying out"orthodoxies of Christian church, its faith, its preaching&books that it held as sacred authority0.

Romer for the OT relied esp. on archeological evidence. Also relying on the latter & genetics (like, whoa!), hot of the press is this book: Steven Weitzman, The Origin of the Jews, Princeton, 394 pp. (rev. in the Wall Street Journal, https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-search-of-the-origin-of-the-jews-1499726881 7.11.17 (!), p. A13.

Cheers, Thomasmeeks (talk) 22:04, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Eugene H. Peterson

Dear StAnselm:

Having logged in to add Peterson's denial/correction from this Christianity Today article, I see that you already deleted my earlier edit. I suppose it best to leave the article in its original form unless there are further developments?

Anyway, this is my first time to use the Talk function on Wikipedia, so I suppose that's some progress! I don't know if there's another way for folks to communicate about their edits. Please let me know if there is. I'm still learning how to efficiently edit things.

Best wishes! DCWinyard 10:51, 14 July 2017 (UTC), 01:33, 14 July 2017 (UTC) — 

Yes, I also saw the retraction and thought, "Good thing I removed it already." I thought it was putting a lot of weight on a one-word answer to a question. StAnselm (talk) 10:43, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! DCWinyard 10:51, 14 July 2017 (UTC), 10:50, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

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Pacelbel Ranting

And one day I was listening to this Veggietales song and realized.... Given Kurt Heinecke's Carl Stalling tendencies I suspect it was deliberate. Mangoe (talk) 01:53, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

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Cancelled your undo on the movement of Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories to Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact

The recent peer reviewed study summarizing the overwhelming evidence for Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact, in addition to the two known historic cases, conclusively establishes Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact. The title 'theories', therefore, is inaccurate and misleading, being a subjective spin rather than an objective content classification.

Hence, the page needed to be renamed.

I therefore renamed the page from Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact theories to Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact, which you undid, further suggesting we have an RM discussion about it. I do not doubt the outcome of such a discussion would be in favor of the move.

If you have some kind of reason you believe makes sense to resist or delay such a move, even though...

• High profile peer reviewed scientific literature clearly states the prior views are now outmoded.
• The content of the article does not align with the title to which you reverted the article.

... then please put it forward on the talk page over here where it can be discussed. If people wish to have a formal RM discussion, that's fine, but I really don't see how anyone could reasonably and objectively agree with the old page title and disagree with the new one.

In the mean time, to prevent an nonsensical title for a well developed article, I have just now re-instated the move pending the presentation of any meaningful reason not to make it. Alternate options (new page title entirely, merge, etc.) are also potentially viable. prat (talk) 03:09, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

• You said 'please do not move war' but re-moved the page even though I explained why it is not suitable with the old title. You have given no evidence at all for your perspective. Please state it over here where it can be discussed. prat (talk)

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WP

If you don't want it in WP's voice that is fine. No worries. Fixed it. QuackGuru (talk) 19:26, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

User talk:Mark0880

I'll back off because you asked, but I think you're wasting your time with notability issues. The editor in question just made a copypasta draft, can't be bothered to read the notice on his talkpage, and he insinuates I'm attacking him. I'm trying to help that editor understand, which they refuse to do. I, for one, enjoy seeing editors get their Wikipedia boomerangs. I see enough competence issues there to hand them a 36hr block. Chris Troutman (talk) 22:12, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, I think you're WP:INVOLVED now, so you shouldn't be the person to do it. Although the account is very old, the user is really a newbie. And this was a straight-up personal attack. StAnselm (talk) 22:26, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

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Proposed article deletion

Hi a while ago you created the article 2 Samuel 23, which is a stub. I've copied the content from this article into the larger article on Books of Samuel, and now that I've done this, I've proposed the article you created for deletion. All the best Mccapra (talk) 06:40, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

No, I only created the initial redirect. It was User:JohnThorne who created the stub. StAnselm (talk) 07:32, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of P. Kyle McCarter Jr.

The article P. Kyle McCarter Jr. has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Does not meet notability requirements.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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당신을 위한 반스타!

	오리지널 반스타
	Thank you for your making very excellent christian articles. 칼빈500 (talk) 16:22, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

I translated your many articles on theological documents. You did very good job.칼빈500 (talk) 16:27, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! StAnselm (talk) 16:33, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Gender

Category:Gender and Bible is subcat of Category:Gender and Christianity, Category:Gender and Judaism and the gender tree goes much further up. It is about gender issues, including sexuality-related issues. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:28, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

They are indeed related, but that desn't mean that Onan and Tamar should be in that category. StAnselm (talk) 22:31, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

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Merry Christmas!!!!!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2018!

Hello StAnselm, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2018. Happy editing, JudeccaXIII (talk) 20:26, 24 December 2017 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.