Stefke

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Hello, Stefke, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome!  Sideshow Bob 23:17, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Please use edit summaries

Hello. Please be courteous to other editors and use edit summaries when updating articles. The Mathbot tool shows your usage of edit summaries to be extremely low:

Edit summary usage for Stefke: 0% for major edits and 0% for minor edits. Based on the last 14 major and 0 minor edits in the article namespace.

Using edit summaries helps other editors quickly understand your edits, which is especially useful when you make changes to articles that are on others' watchlists. Thanks and happy editing! --Kralizec! (talk) 02:43, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use disputed for Image:Grb petrovic njegosa.jpg

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2004 flag

Well why was then the new flag adopted by DPS in 2004 precisely, for which reason? --PaxEquilibrium 16:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

No one gave me that right - thus, I'm not calling them irregular. The session of the assembly that adopted it was. I know a lot of people from Serbia who had that kind of opinion before the Bulldozer Revolution when they talking about parties not belonging to the Red-Black Coalition (SPS and SRS).

The symbols are awaiting to become legal in the true sense - while this may not count in the case of the national anthem, which is particular because in 2004 the law was enacted for the first time, not being able to reach a consensus as far as 1993 - the case is not with the flag and the coat of arms. Both already constitutionally exist, and there's here a glitch in Montenegrin Law - technically, a two-third supermajority would be needed for that. Instead, the symbols were adopted in an irregular session and by a simple majority rather.

No, I am not aware that I am insulting Montenegrin symbols - in fact I am sure I'm not. I'm not the one who says what's regular and what's not - but remember that the very Speaker Ranko Krivokapic scheduled an irregular session intentionally informing the ruling coalition, and not the opposition - in an attempt to evade the controversy and cunningly overcome it.

What principality are you talking about? When?

Not true. Both are de facto equal in both MNE and SERB, but Latin is favored in Montenegro ever since 2004. Do you have another explanation why DPS (and even opposition SNP) then changed their party names to Latin, and why the "Maternal Tongue" is taught primarily in Latin? Also, you should be aware that the true proponents of the Montenegrin language (e.g. the Doclean Academy of Sciences and Arts) support Latin completely.

Are you sure it should be only about the State Flags? --PaxEquilibrium 11:24, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Hm, who actually confirmed the (strategy of) favoring of Latin script in this very post of yours. :)))

I agree with you on the flags issue.

However, I could also say that AFAIK MNE is direct successor of the Communist Montenegrin state - and the Axis puppet-state (by some opinion) the furthest. In most cases (MNE could be excluded in this one) in 1945 modern Yugoslavian states were created. I disagree with you - MNE is also (in the same manner) a direct successor of the theocratic state that existed, and through that it's successor of the Ottoman Sanjak of Montenegro, i.e. the Crnojevics' Zeta (but perhaps not beyond that, although we could with thin lines proceed over to the Zeta of the Balsics and thereof). The only reason why I included that data is because it seems inappropriate at the List of... article - so where should I keep the info then? --PaxEquilibrium 12:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

First of all there is no discrimination of Cyrillic, but it's being greatly pushed out of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro and Serbia (it's dead in Croatia already).

It's funny how you say that after countless Montenegrin users (even User:CrnaGora) tried to point out at the Montenegrin language article that the Montenegrin language will only use Cyrillic in the future, to differ it from Serbian. ;)))

Really? Oh god, User:Sideshow Bob said that wasn't the case - then we have to delete all those images. --PaxEquilibrium 12:59, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

P.s. It's funny how Montenegrin students at the University of Belgrade have completely forgotten Cyrillic and most need a refresher course from me. :) --PaxEquilibrium 13:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Sure. BTW the CANU has up to only recently opposed the replacement of Serbian language, but from what I've heard opinion of academic individuals are now largely divided, with the pro-Montenegrin slightly dominating over the pro-Serbian side. But you should now that it actually doesn't mostly depend on MASA - but on Matica Crnogorska and the Ministry for Education (Government) primarily, but international recognition (which yes, includes the Board for Standardizing of the Serbian language) too to an extent (compare the situations in which Moldovan and Macedonian languages are).

And you won't. They're both gone from Wikipedia. :)

I never said discrimination of Cyrillic is MNE... it's only a little different from the situation in Serbia (heck, if the law didn't proclaim just Cyrillic official, I reckon the situation would be pretty much similar). --PaxEquilibrium 21:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Flag of Montenegro

Why did you remove the historical section of Flag of Montenegro? Corvus cornix 04:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.  :) It always helps when you use edit summaries to explain your edits. Corvus cornix 04:52, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you actually count SDP? --PaxEquilibrium 11:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Language

Yes, I know. The situation seems very hilarious. :))) --PaxEquilibrium 11:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

SOCs

Yes, and I forgot: the official names (prior to the unification of 1918/1920) of the Churches of Serbia and Montenegro were Orthodox Church in the Kingdom of Serbia and Serb-Orthodox Church in Montenegro. Ironic... :))) --PaxEquilibrium 13:49, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Why did you delete this? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 11:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Another interesting controversial thing of the MOC is that they do not celebrate Saint Sava, which is completely nonsensical if they claim they're not a new invention from 1993. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 12:44, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I know and yet it claims continuation with the old Metropolitanate - for which Abbas was one of the greatest Saints. I wasn't referring to slavas at all, but to general marking. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:04, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Question

By the way, how would character "ś" be in Cyrillic?
P.S. Well Montenegro has yet to become a true democracy like the other 5 ex-Yugoslavian republics, yes. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 19:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

MNE

OK.

By the way, Serbia also adopted illegally its flag, anthem and coat of arms in 2004. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 15:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year and all the best in the new 2008!!! --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:25, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

His Grbovnik is loaded with errors, and also how come is it free of copyright? --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 16:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Mnecoanicholasi.jpg

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Historical Montenegrin Coat-of-Arms

Thank you for your addition of historical Montenegrin Coat-of-Arms. However, you do realise that half of them will get eventually deleted, don't you? --Prevalis (talk) 17:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

BTW, Happy New Year's. Wish you all the best. --Prevalis (talk) 17:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Stefke, I, honestly, am glad to see that a lot of the historical Montenegrin Coat-of-Arms are being uploaded and all, but I only have two objections to what you are doing.

1. Wikipedia isn't some sort of vexillological site, but rather an encyclopedia.

2. Most of the Coat-of-Arms you are uploading look blurry and hard to see. It would be nice, however, if you uploaded more clearer images.

Otherwise, you are doing pretty well and see that you heavily research Montenegrin vexillology (the study of flags) and heraldry (the study of coat-of-arms). I have an interesting suggestion for you. Why not create a site dedicated to Montenegrin vexillology and heraldry and the history of all the Montenegrin flags and coat-of-arms you can find. --Prevalis (talk) 23:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you're talking about websites, then I do. There is one very popular one, Flags of the World (FOTW), which included many historical Montenegrin flags and coat-of-arms from the 19th and 20th Century, however, most of those have disappeared from the site for unknown reasons. However, FOTW also has MANY mirror sites, which are not frequently updated, so you may check out some flags there, too (possibly including those flags that have disappeared from the official FOTW). --Prevalis (talk) 00:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it is the same for both cases. Examples: List of Norwegian coats of arms, List of coats of arms of Spain, List of coats of arms of Germany. They even have separate lists for first-level divisions of some nations, like Germany. --Prevalis (talk) 00:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Great. I'll get started with the introduction of the article and fill it with all the necessary information before you can add all your contributions to the page itself, which should be by the time you log back on. --Prevalis (talk) 06:30, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I've created the article, List of coats of arms of Montenegro. Overall, I've incorporated many of the Montenegrin coat-of-arms that I could already find on Wikipedia into the article/list. You may now feel free to add any necessary images to the article/list. --Prevalis (talk) 20:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

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