User talk:Ugog Nizdast/Archive 1

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May–August 2013

Welcome

Hello, JoelSkept! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! hmssolent\You rang? ship's log 02:55, 1 May 2013 (UTC) Getting Started The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

May 2013

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one of your recent edits to Nitish Mishra has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

• ClueBot NG makes very few mistakes, but it does happen. If you believe the change you made was constructive, please read about it, report it here, remove this message from your talk page, and then make the edit again.
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• The following is the log entry regarding this message: Nitish Mishra was changed by Ugog Nizdast (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.851825 on 2013-05-06T14:06:16+00:00 . Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 14:06, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Adoption

Hi Ugog Nizdast. I would be happy to adopt you and help you get acclimated to Wikipedia. Can you give me some ideas of your of how you would like to contribute, or areas of interest? Also, are there any areas where you need help right now? - MrX 21:28, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

To be honest I don't have any special expertise in anything, but would like to just contribute in general. I'm from India, and have already tried to clean up a page on a particular politician, it lacked sources and it seemed like a biography praising him. After I did this, it got reverted by the user who wrote all that without even commenting why he or she did that. I reverted back again and then got a warning from that bot who checks vandalism. I followed the guidelines and filled in the id. Also I went on irc and asked for helped there, so long story short, the article is back to the way it is supposed to be, without any uncited information. Before that I've also done a few minor edits by checking out the community portal. I've learned a few basic things but I'm still not confident enough to say write my own article. So regarding my topics of interest, I can contribute to cleaning up and writing on articles relating to India or even the current events here. Maybe even dabble in other topics of interest.

So finally, I'm here to combat misinformation because I know how there are quite a few here to try to promote it for their own selfish benefit. Also regarding what I've written above, say such a thing happens again, where I'm forced to revert some content while someone else is trying to do the opposite how should I proceed? The same way like I did above? Won't the bot tag me again? Also I don't know exactly how this adoption process actually works, I mean after you adopt me, how do we go about it further etc..but I'm sure you will enlighten me about it. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 08:52, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

We actually could use some help on the many, many India articles that are created daily, not to mention ones that should be created. There are BLPs, geography articles, history articles, companies articles, cultural articles and so on. Frequently, they need help with sourcing, structure and grammar. One way to help is as a new page patroller. You can view articles that are newly created and make improvements to them or tag them for others to look at. You might also be interested in the guild of copy editors where you can find article that need general copy editing. Or, if you would rather create articles, you can get ideas of articles that need to be created at WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles. If you do create a new article, I suggest first reading WP:FIRST. When you actually start to create an article, there are some important tips at the top of the edit window.

Your edits at Nitish Mishra were fine. Unsourced content, especially if it's dubious, should be removed from BLP articles, or better yet, should be sourced. I'm not sure why 117.197.64.40 reverted your edit, as they did not provide an edit summary. Of course, you can always ask on the article talk page or on the user's talk page. In any case, it was reasonable for you to remove it again, but be careful, because edit warring is strongly frowned upon, and reverting another editor more than three times in 24 hours can result in a loss of editing privileges. The bot reverted you because 1) you are a new user, 2) you repeated the same edit and 3) you removed a large amount of content. There is a link in the bot edit summary to report the edit as legitimate, so that the bot is trained not to revert similar edits in the future. Please also look at WP:BRD, which is a best practice that I recommend following when introducing a bold edit or when reverting a bold edit.

My adoption process is informal. My goal is to help you achieve your goals here, to help you learn how to edit, how to improve articles by removing vandalism and unverified content, to understand our policies and guidelines and how to find help when you need it. I will keep an eye on your contributions and jump in when I see an opportunity to help. I will also occasionally push you in a particular direction that I think may benefit you. Of course, you should also let me know when you need help. Once I believe that you have a good grasp of the fundamentals, I will graduate you from the adoption program, but will still be available to help. - MrX 01:09, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Alright, understood I'll continue my making edits under your supervision. Also I've read Criticism of Wikipedia,Wikipedia:Protection policy,Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle and about various user classes etc (admins,stewards) and even regarding banning and blocking policies.

Also even Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors and WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:11, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Checking in: Recent edits

It looks like you're off to a good start. Your edits so far seem good, as well as your attempts to engage other editors on the article talk pages.

One tiny technical note: When you make a dummy edit, your don't really need to insert a hidden comment into the article. You can just insert a space at the end of a paragraph, or any other non-printing character. - MrX 21:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot!, I've got a few questions though. And I'll also remember that about dummy editing next time.

1. Regarding additional references, From what I've read about it in the help pages, Can one add links to ANY address provided its related to the said topic?

Like suppose someone places an unreliable 1st party(or anything else unreliable for that matter) source web link over there? (but related to the topic and not used as a reference in the article itself)

2. I've come across a few articles which contain barely a few lines, and searching the web archives fails to provide me with any good sources for the subject

at hand. By the notability definition, shouldn't these articles be nominated for deletion?

3. You've probably seen that I'm currently on an article which is related to a geographical area. I've read about functioning as a gazetteer, but couldn't find

any good page showing me a format for it. Or better, an article which I can use as an example. Is there any difference between this and a normal notable area format say like Mumbai which I am currently trying to emulate.

Please see my answers below:

1. Regarding additional references, From what I've read about it in the help pages, Can one add links to ANY address provided its related to the said topic?

Like suppose someone places an unreliable 1st party(or anything else unreliable for that matter) source web link over there? (but related to the topic and not used as a reference in the article itself)

Not exactly. Inline external links should not be used at all. Any external links, which are authoritative, relevant and that contain further reading relevant to the topic can be included in a section called External links placed immediately below the References sections. See WP:ELNO for links to avoid. External links can be used as references however, and should be wrapped in <ref>...<ref> tags. Of course, the external links would need to be reliable sources as well.

2. I've come across a few articles which contain barely a few lines, and searching the web archives fails to provide me with any good sources for the subject at hand. By the notability definition, shouldn't these articles be nominated for deletion?

The short answer is yes. WP:Twinkle has a drop down menu for nominating articles for deletion (XFD). You might want to run a couple of these problem articles by me first, as I can advise you as to whether they should be deleted under our inclusion standards.

3. You've probably seen that I'm currently on an article which is related to a geographical area. I've read about functioning as a gazetteer, but couldn't find any good page showing me a format for it. Or better, an article which I can use as an example. Is there any difference between this and a normal notable area format say like Mumbai which I am currently trying to emulate.

The general formats are the same for small communities as for large cities. In the United States, we use the GNIS database as a source for these articles, as well as other sources. There is no strict layout guideline, so I usually try to find a similar good article and try to follow its format.

I'm a little time crunched right now, but I will try to post some addition guidance shortly. - MrX 20:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I have been surveying some articles which didn't fit the notability guidelines (according to me at least) and I tagged it with the notability template, is this a good practice?, also I found an article having one line about a really obscure village, Regarding geography related topics do such things have to be covered? or should it be deleted. I read about Twinkle but not confident to use it. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:08, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Also what is better: Removing unsourced or unreliable material(and maybe adding if I find proper sources)and just adding templates to them and watching that article page? -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, articles about subjects of dubious notability should be tagged as you have done. The notability tag will hopefully prompt others to add sources that establish notability, or to possibly nominate the articles for deletion.

Generally, unsourced material should simply be removed unless you are pretty certain that it can be properly sourced. Unfortunately, tags are easy to ignore and don't always accomplish the intended goal. For a little more perspective see WP:TAGGING, WP:WP:RESPTAG and WP:TAGBOMB. - MrX 03:00, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I just thought I was acting too aggressive by removing that kind of material.(I observed that everyone seems to be content with tagging rather than removing) also pardon me if your busy, but what about geographic articles, how is the notability guidelines different for such articles? Do even obscure villages need articles(I saw one) or can they be nominated for deletion? -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 05:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry I missed this message. I have about 2500 pages on my watchlist, so I did not notice this post. To answer your question simply, prevailing consensus is that just about any government recognized populated place is notable. In fact, formerly populated places can be notable. Of course, articles should still be reliably sourced. I would recommend against nominating any geographical articles for deletion. Here is an essay that explains it better than I can. WP:NGEO. - MrX 17:05, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Ugog Nizdast. You have new messages at Camyoung54's talk page.
Message added 19:38, 13 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

- Camyoung54 ^talk 19:38, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Welcome

Hi my indian friend. i liked that u did not reverted my changes. thanks bro for understanding my reasons. if u are going according to some wikipedia rules, u may be right. but do not delete the whole data, this results in loss and this is not according to wikipedia. u are right, people have added a lot of schools on that page and the list have become very long. so i would recommend that u remove the unpopular schools from that list instead of deleting the whole list. in short i would say u may modify it to some extent and make it look nice and worth. u may also remove some info about best services as that list is also little big, but do not delete it fully because some part is important. users have been contributing from a long time on these pages and your deletion may attract fight with them. thanks again for not undo my changes. MODIFY THAT PAGE IN THE WAY I SUGGESTED. keep editing on wikipedia.Arja36 (talk) 08:05, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

i found that you have asked for help on talk page of mira bhayandar to improve that page. you can ask me for help, i know abt it, can help to make this better.Arja36 (talk) 11:56, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Arja36. Please read WP:OR as well as the comments posted on the article talk page. Unfortunately, your experiences living in Mira Bhayandar can not be used in this article. The article should also be concise, encyclopedic and the content needs to be attributed to reliable sources in the form of footnote citations. May I suggest that you join the discussion on the article talk page and collaborate with us to make this a really good encyclopedia article? - MrX 12:05, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Arja36 and Yes let's discuss everything there. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 15:43, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Skepticism

Hello :-) I see you have joined the Wiki Project for Rational Skepticism. I am part of the project too. Would you be interested in translating some English language skepticism articles and making Indian wiki pages for them and/or translating some Indian skeptic pages onto the English language wikipedia? It would be lovely to share skeptic knowledge across as many countries as we can. The Skepticism project includes people who speak many languages (French, Swedish, Portugese, Arabic and many more) but we don't have an Indian translator yet. If you are too busy with other projects at the moment I understand. Best wishes. Joolzzt (talk) 05:19, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Joolzzt nice to meet you. It sure sounds very interesting, but I must warn you that Hindi language isn't exactly my speciality. Of course, I would love to try especially from English to Hindi, since that may be easier for me. I can't believe that there is no Indian translator yet. I'm relatively new here, and barely in two projects. I'm not sure how to participate other than seeing the articles which are listed on the main page of the project and improving those. Could you help me regarding how to participate in this project? -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 08:37, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi :-) The collaboration page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:RationalSkepticismCollaboration) hasn't been kept up to date as the Project seemed to fade away at one point, but several of us are still registered and wander around wiki doing what we can. I know a few people on the list who edit, but there aren't as many people as we'd like.

I'm currently writing a new page for my local Skeptic group and magician and skeptic Paul Zenon has been in the news recently in the UK as he is being sued by a 'pychic' so I'd like to bring his page up to date. I don't think those pages need translations, but you could pick something that interests you from the high quality articles that have already been written (click FA/A/GA in the grid here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Rational_Skepticism).

If you prefer you could pick tasks from the 'Featured Article status' list on that page. There are pages on Scientology, Richard Dawkins, Skepticism and Carl Sagan that have been written and which already have good citations. You could translate whatever you feel would be of interest to Hindi speakers and you'd be able to see how some of those pages were created. I added some info to the $1m dollar challenge page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge) recently, and found it fascinating. Maybe that would interest you? It's your choice. I feel I do a better job if I pick a topic that interests me. If you have time to pick up something just let me know on my talk page and I'll make sure it gets added to the project page.

I see you already have a helpful mentor which is great, but if you have any questions about Rational Skepticism wiki pages I'd be happy to help with that.

Best wishes.Joolzzt (talk) 22:28, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, the collaboration page looks stagnant so if I have any issues regarding articles to bring up, I do it at the projects talk page since that looks like it's been used regularly right?. If I find any far flung article that clearly needs attention I bring it up there, since that's all I've done so far. I have just done housekeeping on obscure religious places and politicians here. You know what? I'll report what I find to you first :). Hmm I never tried to help out in GAs or FAs so far, I'll see whether I can be of some help. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 06:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Apologies Ugog, you are correct, I should have been clear that you can talk and ask questions about Wiki Project 'RatSkeps' on the talk page. You could start a new 'help for new members' section and people will help you. Add that you can translate into Hindi and people may come up with India-related work they have done that may need a translation. We have the page on our 'watch' list and we'll get an email when you add anything so anyone can help if they are online.

One of the members has recently made the project page a lot neater and easier to understand. The GAs/FAs have been checked for errors, so they should be ok unless we get new info to add, but I don't think any of them are in Hindi yet.

Yes, please add pages to the 'to do' list if you think they need a fix. Also please add our project template to any skeptic-related pages you notice that don't have it yet. That way they will appear in our statistics and we can track them even if they don't need updates at the moment.

'Housekeeping on obscure religious places' is important too, we never know when someone will need the page and it's nice to know that it is correct if they do. It's great to know that you have been helping even though we hadn't made contact directly. As I said before, the Wiki project hasn't been very active, but we are trying to build it back up again and make contact with other people on the list to let them know we are 'back in business'. You are the first person I contacted and it's lovely to get such a friendly response :-) Cheers Joolzzt (talk) 15:09, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of that, I better add this project and any other to my watchlist and one thing I've noticed over here regarding articles related to India is that everybody is focussed on just creating but no one for clean up(Hence the large quantities of substandard articles). Really sorry but as I mentioned before, I'm not good enough for translations and I'm mainly focussed on en-wikipedia.(This is the first time I've regretted not being proficient in Hindi) Thanks for the help regarding how to participate and most probably when I do find something important or need some job to be done related to this I will contact you first. See you around and thank you once again. Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:06, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Delighted to see people work in any language :-) I just mentioned Hindi because you said above that you might like to try. You are so right about substandard articles. Sometimes I see pages that are so bad that it would be better if they didn't exist. Hope to see you on the project some time. Keep up the good work :-) Joolzzt (talk) 17:16, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

PS I forgot to say the the template on Anneliese Michel's page is fine. We have quite a few pages that haven't been rated yet. Thanks Joolzzt (talk) 22:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 26

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Birbal

Thanks for contacting me and congratulations on the work you're doing. I'll look forward to seeing more changes by you in future. I apologise if I have removed anything you thought important. When I tried to save my changes, I got a notice saying there was an edit conflict and simply did a copy and paste of my text over the top.

I was about to leave you a message anyway. I am glad that at last someone is trying to reference the article and that you have found further sources. My changes were, as I indicated in the edit note, to focus the article down to only what is referenced in the one work mentioned so far (which I found on the talk page). That article cites other sources, which is also useful. The trouble with a figure so much the centre of folklore is that any old reference will not do, since it may simply be recycling legend. The vagueness over Birbal's birthplace that you mention (and which I also noticed) is one indication of how untrustworthy sources are.

While I would not go so far as make the article a candidate for deletion, as was suggested on the talk page last year, I think it would be a good idea to say somewhere that such facts as exist consist mostly of hearsay, without strong evidence. In this connection, I suggest you look at the present state of the article on Messalina, where I and another user have similarly pointed out why sources that have been cited for centuries simply cannot be trusted. The problem remains that, until you can point to other sources, the article is based on only the one (the article in the book on jesters). WP is very strict about verifiability and constant vigilance is needed against individuals who drop in scraps of information which they think they know, without providing proof or (in this article in the past) any grammatical command.

If you can read Gurmukhi, or find someone who can, then the Sikh reference in Twarikh Guru Khalsa can be made more precise. I edited that down because the original passage showed evidence of opinionation. The account of Birbal's death obviously needs referencing; if it can't be, we'll need to pare it down to the details given by Karen Treanor. Two other statements need verifying: (1) that Birbal was Akbar's Grand Vizier; one would have expected that someone in that position would have left more of a paper trail. (2) We need linguistic evidence that Birbal's name does indeed mean what is claimed; Treanor gives an alternative explanation (which I don't find very convincing).

I think a section on the popular stories and their sources would be a good idea, so long as it is kept general and does not attempt to repeat individual stories. I know from bitter experience that nothing is more likely to act as a magnet for egotistic attempts at story telling from others. I guess something about the films and fictions based on the legend also needs writing, but that too might draw down all sorts of irrelevant additions about Birbal's appearance 'in popular culture'. It will need constant patrolling since listing of trivialities is also against WP policy.

I hope this helps clear the air a bit. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 13:54, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Very good, then I shall continue it while you inspect my edits. Deletion? that would have been bad, Birbal is a very prominent figure (though not that much historically but mainly in folklore, there are many books on that Akbar & Birbal etc) and I checked out Messalina, and got an idea, what you're trying to say. No I can't read Gurumukhi, but I'll see what can be done later, is it called 'Twarikh Guru Khalsa'? I couldn't find it.

Update- Regarding Birbal's name I found another quite interesting source here. There is a good 40 pages regarding him and I've dug out some interesting things. I have not put much in word yet but will soon.

The outline which I think I can follow is -

• The main part on his actual historic role. This source also says that he was a good companion to Akbar, his death, but says another birthplace. Also it actually has a nice explanation of his name. Do check it out.
• A section on folklore. This book mainly focuses on the origins of his folklore which is quite intriguing and of course important.

I will of course, have to find more sources, but I'm sure I can get at least a proper short article ready soon. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 14:47, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, agreed. The essay on humour that you dug up was most interesting, although you will notice that the way its author phrases his explanation of Birbal's name makes it clear that it is purely personal speculation (and is repeated by Treanor). Meanwhile, I discovered a reputable source for Birbal's death and have added it to the article. On the Sikh source, I looked up its author. The work exists in three volumes but is only in script, so I couldn't dig further. Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 17:37, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I notice you are still being mentored, so here are a couple of tips. First, your English usage is very careless. As just one example of many, I notice you deleted an 'a' from in front of 'reputation'. WRONG - one can 'gain fame' but always a reputation. Word has a grammatical function which will underline wrong usage in red. If you have that, it might be a good idea to compose your articles on Word first and then cut and paste to WP.

Second, your multiple edits in a short space of time looks careless. Are you not aware that you can use the Show Preview button (below) and then return to editing? You don't have to save the page after every change. Or if you really can't get things right, then you should compose your article in a personal sandbox (see WP:SB) and keep it there until you really are sure you have everything you want and then cut and paste to the live article. I apologise if you know all this already. There is, however, a big difference between knowing something and putting what one knows into practice! Mzilikazi1939 (talk) 09:53, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Really sorry, but I've also been reading something regarding improving my prose lately. I'm aware of all that (sandbox, basics etc) and thanks for pointing all of this out. After doing this redundancy test, I knew I started overdoing it and eating up words since previously I used to do just the opposite!

About multiple edits, I get scared to do a single big edit since it doesn't seem practical (what if someone wants to change something but reverts the whole thing instead?)

Regarding the article, I still have a lot of material with me and I'm still working on putting it up. Now that you have told me all this, I'll spend more time improving its prose offline and I'll try to improve the article section by section. Apologies once again. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 13:34, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

@Mzilikazi1939: I think there are, perhaps, nicer ways to say that one's grammar could use improvement, but your advice on using Microsoft Word to check grammar is helpful. With respect to your comments about short edits: that's more of a personal preference. Some editors make edits in one large block, while others edit incrementally. I find that both approaches are useful, depending on the situation. It looks like you use the incremental approach yourself sometimes. - MrX 13:40, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Exceptional Adoptee Barnstar
	I wanted to commend you for the exceptional work that you have been doing. You're a quick learner and have a great temperament for this collaborative editing environment. Keep up the good work! - MrX 17:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot MrX! I am deeply honoured indeed, and thank you once again for all your help so far. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:07, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

thx

You are very welcome! Tony (talk) 12:37, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Reply

I agree the infobox should say din-i-ilahi. These sources describes it as a religion; [1], [2], [3] Pass a Method talk 09:18, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I came across some more sources saying so, I may go ahead and do this since it seems silly to place two religions in the infobox just because he converted later. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 09:37, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Birbal stats

I made a few edits to Birbal and will do some more as time allows. I thought it was interesting to see how "popular" the article is. It is receiving almost 600 views per day. In case you didn't already know, you can view stats for any page by going to page history and then clicking on "Page view statistics" near the top of the page. - MrX 21:00, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I read it before but didn't use it. Nice, pretty interesting, I've looked at other pages and there are clearly some substandard articles with quite a bit of traffic that need to be improved. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 15:56, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

do not modify content about which you do not know about.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Guardian Truth (talk • contribs) 16:56, 8 July 2013‎

Akbar's article

It has never been explicitly stated that Akbar renounced Islam, he was born a Muslim and was an orthodox Muslim in the early years of his reign. He remained a Muslim, but wasn't a strict follower of the Sharia laws. It is not even clear whether Din-e-Ilahi was even a religion, this fact is also stated in the reference I have given. Therefore, Akbar's religion cannot be stated as just "Din-e-Illahi" when it was created in 1582, just 23 years before his death. - Animefreak234 18:03, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks so much for replying. Yes of of course, it's true that some criticised and didn't call it a religion since it lacked a proper decree or holy book but most acknowledged that he started it and had at least 12 followers. Many sources say so, like the links given above [4], [5], [6], in fact just using a search engine yields such results, what ever you have said, all of this about his beliefs is mentioned on his main article even the debate about this "cult religion" but the general consensus is that he did and till his death. WP:INFOBOX clearly says that we have to provide simple and accurate information in the infobox, what I mean to say is, putting "Islam then later Din-i-llahi" or "Islam" is unnecessary since it's already mentioned and a bit misleading. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:23, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Again, I think you would also know that it's never been stated that he formally renounced Islam. Either his religion section should be left blank in the infobox like it was last year, or it should be just Islam. Eraly Abraham clearly states that he didn't renounce Islam in his whole lifetime and other sources also don't state that he formally renounced Islam. So Islam can't be removed from the infobox, again, he just wasn't a strict follower of the Sharia laws. Even Abul Fazl, the official court historian of Akbar never stated that Akbar changed his religion, or if there was a religion called Din-e-Illahi, it's just Badauni who accuses him of changing his religion without any proof. I don't think that if the common notion is that Din-e-Illahi was a religion then it should be solely stated in the infobox when in fact it wasn't a religion. This source clearly takes the rational approach towards Din-e-Ilahi and states that it wasn't a religion - [7]

I think "Islam, Din-e-Illahi" is the best option other than just 'Islam', though I personally think that it should be Islam only in the infobox. And I just want to point out that it can't be just 'Din-e-Illahi' because it was created in 1582, just 23 years before his death, what about all those years before it's creation? It'll imply that Akbar's religion was Din-e-Illahi from the start and he never was a Muslim which is very misleading and wrong.

I want to know that are you suggesting that it should be just 'Din-e-Illahi'? - Animefreak234 16:51, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you can't just ignore that and put only one thing but anyway the whole story behind that is mentioned in the article and even citations aren't required in the infobox. Funny I remember reading somewhere that Abul Fazl was one of the followers too but you've convinced me, and the best solution is to keep both. Thanks. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:29, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Ugog Nizdast. You have new messages at OrangesRyellow's talk page.
Message added 18:18, 21 July 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

OrangesRyellow (talk) 18:18, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions!

Thanks for your valuable suggestions regarding Sunday Shalom. I will work on it... But I have a doubt; why did you suggest to remove much of the external links? I added it without an aim advertising, but for more info and references. Sunday Shalom have much importance since it is the first weekly newspaper in Kerala in Malayalam language. Moreover it is one of the popular Christian Newspaper. I wish to know how can I include RNI number in Infobox newspaper, which proves an Indian newspaper's reliability? Also, I wish to know whether there is any Wikiproject regarding Old films-more prefarable: Indian films-and Unreleased films? Joseph 11:12, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

@991joseph: You are most welcome. To quote from wp:external links,

• External links should not normally be used in the body of an article instead, include appropriate external links in an "External links" section at the end of the article, and in the appropriate location within an infobox, if applicable.
• Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.
• In the "External links" section, try to avoid separate links to multiple pages in the same website; instead, try to find an appropriate linking page within the site.

I know about this paper too and as to the next question, you've mentioned that it is the first weekly Malayalee newspaper; I think that would be an interesting fact in the article and surely there must be some third party coverage of it, in some reliable news agency like The Hindu? you could start there and trim down a little on the sources which are focused on what the article is related to (this case: Christian news agencies to prevent bias wp:NPOV). I might in the next few hours, edit that article and see if I can help in improving or cleaning up.

Indian cinema - I don't think there will be such specialised projects for that but you could try this Wikipedia:WikiProject_Films/Indian_cinema_task_force, also I don't usually work on topics concerning this so you could ask some user in the taskforce on more doubts regarding this.

Infobox newspaper template is meant for all international newspapers, so I think RNI number will not be there and since it's such a regionally focused newspaper, I doubt there will be any such option for this. But then again, you can ask someone more experienced in WP:WikiProject India. Hope this answers your questions. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 12:32, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

About an edit on Bhardwaja Page

I provided the reason for removal of the content in edit summary. That content does not say anything new about Bhardwaja. It is mainly talking about Buddha. So, it is irrelevant here. Ysaimanoj (talk) 14:19, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

@Ysaimanoj: Hi Ysaimanoj, the section mentioned about Buddha referring to only Bhardwaja with sources, which seemed relevant for the article. It didn't seem to be just on Buddha. Usually a discussion and consensus is required for removing matter which is appropriately sourced and not obviously violating any policy. If you still feel it's irrelevant, feel free to undo my edit. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 14:48, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

VE lost edits

Hi Ugog Nizdast, in regards to your feedback at Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive 2013_07#Error message: 'Error: Invalid token', I have developed at temporary solution. See User:John Vandenberg/switch editor. I would appreciate any feedback on how it can be improved. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 23:39, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

@John Vandenberg: Hello John Vandenberg, your script sounds very useful. I've put it in my vector.js page and tried it out.

It does not seem to work for me. While saving, the option 'source' is present but cannot be selected. (Also I see that the actual button and the 'word' source are not on the same line.) -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 06:46, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Hmm. I can't reproduce that behaviour of the word 'Source' being placed on a different line to the checkbox. Could you send me a screenshot, either upload here or email jayvdb@gmail.com? Thanks for the feedback! John Vandenberg ^(chat) 07:06, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Sure, here you are. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 08:30, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

My save dialog doesn't have the "(what's this?)" link, and that is causing the layout problem. Umm, could you click on that link and tell me what it does/says? John Vandenberg ^(chat) 08:59, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

After a bit of digging, I see that this part of the save dialog is defined at MediaWiki:Minoredit (and that is what I see). And somehow your save dialog is using an old version, which confounds me. This visual editor is managing to do that frequently. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 09:19, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Really!? Now that's a really big glitch. The "what's this" link just goes to Help:minor edit and if my memory serves, I don't remember it being there until recently, maybe 3-4 days. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 09:33, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I think you must be using British English in your preferences, which means you see MediaWiki:Minoredit/en-gb. If you pick a different English from the list, the problem should go away. --John Vandenberg ^(chat) 09:39, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Excellent work, it works now! just made an edit. I don't even know why I set the language to that, as it doesn't seem to make any difference. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 09:55, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

In order to prevent other en-GB users hitting the same problem, I have moved the checkbox to be near the review button. (You may not see this change immediately unless you press shift & click reload - or similar). Let me know if this new placement doesnt appeal to you. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 11:16, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Edamaruku

I am working on a rewrite of Sanal Edamaruku and I thought you might like to help since you have interest in Skepticism and India. I have created a working page at User:Allecher/Sanal Edamaruku and I welcome any sources or help that you can provide. Sources do not have to be in English, of course, if you can help translate them. So far I have only found a few English sources that are not already in the article. Allecher (talk) 00:42, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Allecher, very nice to see you working on the article. I look forward to editing it too, once you've done with it. Here are some sources that I've managed to dig up so far at the article talk page.

It's interesting that there are also many European language sources for him in Google news, they might be useful. If I'm not mistaken, most of the current sources in the article are mostly unreliable and let me know if you need anything else, like any specific section which could do with some referencing. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 08:17, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

CSD

Hi Ugog Nizdast

Thanks for helping out with new page patrol. You may have seen that your CSD:A7 nomination for Unified conferencing was declined. The types of articles and the criteria for speedy deletion are purposely very narrow. In this case, the article was putatively about a technological architecture, so it was not eligible for any CSD criteria. Having said that, many articles that start out like this end up becoming COATRACKS for WP:SPAMLINKS shortly after they are created, so it's sometimes good to watchlist them.

If you think the new article duplicates an existing article, then you have several options. If it is a clear duplication of an existing article, CSD:A10 may be an option. Redirecting to an existing article is another option, as is proposing a merge. Finally, if the article is not notable, based on a reasonable search for sources, then you can nominate it through the AfD process. - MrX 12:45, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for telling me, I better read more about the speedy deletion criteria before getting too hasty. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 13:15, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Kerala

What are you doing here? The action does not match the edit summary. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 18:30, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Oops I used to wrong summary, I meant to be removing the unreliable source citations and restored it to how it was previously. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:38, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for clarifying. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 18:45, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	Thank you for your peer review of Blackwater fire of 1937. You provided one of the best peer reviews I have had on an article I worked on. MONGO 03:54, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm really grateful! your appreciation has encouraged me to take part in more peer re-viewing. Thank you very much and my best wishes, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 05:35, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the tip

Hi Ugog Nizdast,

Eventhough I've had an user account for a while, It was only thanks to an ongoing cartography workshop that I ended up adding content. Thank you for the welcome :) I shall work towards contributing more soon.

Inosaint (talk) 06:13, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

@Inosaint: You're most welcome, I did check out the link too. Very interesting stuff going on there, I'm sure you'll start off well here and see you around! -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 07:40, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

National Language of India

Hindi is the National language of India. Then why have you change to "None". — Preceding unsigned comment added by TobinKoshy (talk • contribs) 09:10, 11 August 2013

Hello, Ugog Nizdast. You have new messages at Tobin Koshy's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

@TobinKoshy: Hi TobinKoshy, the India article is FA class and everything put there is cited with proper references. If what you said was properly accepted as a fact, it would been there in the article long time back. You could get a proper source to back that up, then surely you can add it. Hope you understand what I mean, sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 09:15, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

PS: Also sign your comments by typing "~~~~", I think you would benefit from reading the talk page guidelines and about using Talkback.

August 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Durga Shakti Nagpal may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• 3 August 2013|newspaper=The Times of India|date=1 August 2013}}</ref><ref name=ht1102075>{{cite news|title=‘Upright’ suspended IAS officer Durga just wanted to preserve environment|url=http:

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 17:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Durga Shakti Nagpal may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• 3 August 2013|newspaper=The Times of India|date=1 August 2013}}</ref><ref name=ht1102075>{{cite news|title=‘Upright’ suspended IAS officer Durga just wanted to preserve environment|url=http:

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 06:40, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm so embarrassed, mister bot. Ugog Nizdast (talk) 07:13, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Starting a conversation

Hi! Nice to meet you. I see that you are some months old in wikipedia, and already going strong. Thanks for your excellent contribution to the encyclopedia.

I have a feeling you have a keen power of observation, and able to suggest quality improvement for articles. I hope ours will be a lasting and productive friendship.

I saw your peer review of that fire article. Wild you mind having a look at the Hyderabadi haleem article? That's also in peer review as of now. That's a pretty short article though. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 23:53, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Salutations! I'm deeply flattered by your praise. Of course I will look into it, give me some time. It's already a GA! but I'll see if I can come out with any constructive suggestions. Thanks for asking me and the honour is mine as I've come across your edits/posts many times. I'm sure we can work together. Sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 07:14, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Her Husband transfer

Durga Shakti Nagpal's Husband transfer to Jhansi. I don't think this is false news at all.?? I have linked with two sources, one is ABP New. Is that not reliable (Gokulchandola (talk) 17:18, 14 August 2013 (UTC))

@Gokulchandola: Hi really sorry and I realise I may have jumped the gun. From what I've read so far, I've not come across any big news agencies making this connection. Perhaps you could get a better source than what you currently used? Some big news agency, the usual ones (TOI, Hindu, IBN etc) and I assume that youtube citation was a mistake. Also, if you do find this, I feel you may need to exercise extreme caution and just state the facts. There is a good chance that this connection (He got transferred because of this) can be stated more factually and just because a few reporters make this, doesn't mean we should. It's best to wait for all the dust to settle so that we can get a more clearer picture, daily updating it with the latest news speculation is not wise. I hope you understand. Sincerely, Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:33, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

• Agree, but before any reversal, should take precautions this is my concern only. Ref. (Gokulchandola (talk) 17:47, 14 August 2013 (UTC))

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