User talk:Worm That Turned/Archive 37

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Archive 37

Page move restriction

What view do you have on lifting the page move restriction, in whole or part? At Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment/Archive 107#Amendment request: Crouch, Swale restrictions appeal (January 2019) it was suggested by SilkTork if only 5% of my RMs were unsuccessful they would be happy to remove the restriction, I then pointed out that that standard RM (as opposed to RMT) is for moves that need discussion rather than uncontroversial moves, SilkTork then suggested using RMT and if 95% of the time the page mover agrees that would be good evidence. In 2022 I've probably made hundreds or RMT requests and while a few have ended up being discussed I can't think of any that were closed as "not moved" or even "no consensus". There was 1 Dent, Cumbria that was later reverted and County Borough of Southend on Sea that ended up being moved back to a similar title (though the move was previously discussed) apparently because the user didn't understand the difference between a district and a district council. I asked Amakuru about lifting the restriction only for allowing me to close RM discussions which they didn't think was a good idea, see User talk:Amakuru#Page move restriction which should be taken into account if this is suggested. Do you support lifting the restriction in whole or part perhaps with 1RR or 0RR? I'm not going to push for this but do you think its a good idea especially given it doesn't appear based on RMT that there are problems with my page moves. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:32, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Question about blockquotes

Primefac has recently deleted all of my blockquotes from 23 articles — claiming copyright violation. I suggest that this allegation of copyright violation is nonsense. My blockquotes might be style failures — but I suggest that the blockquotes are definitely not copyright violations. Do you agree with Primefac? Suslindisambiguator (talk)

Hi @Suslindisambiguator. The fact is, published text can only be directly quoted under fair use. It's much easier to be able to describe fair use with regard to images (as I used to do with my old Copyright adoption course), but the principles are the same - you should only use a quote when no other option will do. If you can describe something in your own words, you should do that. In Wikipedia style, we would put a quote into context before or after using it. Looking at some of these quote usages, I can see why they were deleted as copyright violations, such as Henry Winston Newson where it's clear that it was simple cut and pastes of biographical information which could have easily been put into your own words. So, I'm afraid, yes, in that case I do agree it is a copyright violation. I haven't gone into each and every one, but I think you would do better to focus on writing things fresh and staying away from quotes. Worm^TT(talk) 19:34, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your opinion. How can I see the deleted blockquotes? I did not save the originals. Suslindisambiguator (talk) Suslindisambiguator (talk) 20:04, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

@Suslindisambiguator You cannot as you are not an admin. And since they have been deleted as copyright violations, they're not generally eligible to be passed back to you. Worm^TT(talk) 07:45, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Why cannot the deletions be restored and then the entire article be moved to draftspace? Suslindisambiguator (talk) Suslindisambiguator (talk) 21:20, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

The blocks of text do not meet fair use, which means they cannot be published on Wikipedia due to copyright. Moving them to the draft space is publishing them. Worm^TT(talk) 08:52, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

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Barkeep49 (talk) 19:01, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Request for nomination as an Administrator

I hereby request you to evaluate me and my chances of becoming a Wikipedia admin. I mostly use my mobile phone to make edits since i usually make them while on the go. If you find my edits and request okay, please nominate me. Thanks Alvinategyeka (talk) 03:12, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

(by talk reader) @Alvinategyeka: If you read WP:RFAADVICE you will find that Wikipedia expects far more than you realize, and that you will not be an admin here. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:53, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Alvinategyeka and thanks for coming by to ask about becoming an admin. I'm afraid Chris is right, above, at present you would not pass an a request for Adminship. The community expects our administrators to have a long tenure, with many thousands of edits, simply to prove that they have good knowledge of the policies and procedures of our encyclopedia, as well as a good understanding of our culture. That said, you're doing a great job at what you are doing, so can I suggest you take a look at my magic formula on how to become and keep doing what you're doing. Worm^TT(talk) 08:53, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Actually its not that am soo interested in becoming an Admin, i can wait for more years.

I was just angered by some Admins who abuse efforts of editors. I just thought maybe there is more that can be done in terms of havimg editors from across the devide. Admins outside Africa look at things very differently. But my hope is, one time we shall have more Admins from Africa. Alvinategyeka (talk) 09:49, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

@Alvinategyeka I would love to see more admins from Africa, certainly, and if you know of any long term editors from Africa who you believe could make a good administrator, can I suggest you use the Administrators without tools process. I do my best to stop admins abusing the efforts of editors, and the vast majority of admins don't do that at all. At any rate, my talk page is always open - even if I'm sometimes a little slow at replying myself! Worm^TT(talk) 10:18, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Waiting on ANI

I had been mentally composing a reply to the comment of yours that you were waiting on ANI but haven't had a chance to read all of the statements which I'd want to make so I could make a single statement myself. Since you've now acknowledged that this wait I figured I'd come here. I think the idea that ArbCom needed to wait for ANI in this situation is too cautious to the point of being wrong. The community has clearly decided time and time again that it wants ArbCom and Arbcom alone to decide whether someone is a sysop. This means any community discussion at ANI about the block and other sanctions should run in parallel to an ArbCom decision on the matter of sysop. Personally it's my opinion that the block should be fairly easily reversible. That is Athaenara could say "While I don't apologize for the idea or the concerns I expressed, I was wrong to direct this at another editor and was doubly wrong for doing so at RfA. I apologize for both those actions and will not do it again". In that case she should be unblockable. But even in that scenario it wouldn't mean she is fit to remain a sysop. I think your note that you want to wait for her to make a statement - and encouraging Ritchie not to revoke TPA so that can happen - is an entirely different matter and quite the appropriate thing to wait for. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:00, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Barkeep49. The reason I wanted to wait for ANI was simple. It allowed the community the chance to review the indefinite block. I was aware that it wouldn't take much time to do that, because there was an Arbcom case open, and Arbcom generally supersedes ANI, leading the latter to be closed. So, by putting in that wait, I was expecting under 12 hours to see if the community would overturn or if it would end up in a place where this really becomes a procedural issue.

If the community had overturned, I would still want to be considering the sysop at a full case. As it is, I believe that we should looking at a motion that simply removes the bit, and allows for a case at the subject's request (similar to a Level 2). I'm also willing to hear what she has to say for herself, as per level 2.

I don't believe I was being cautious - but I was allowing time to see which way was the best to proceed. Does that make sense? Worm^TT(talk) 19:14, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

No more sense than it did before so let me as a question that will maybe help me understand. The community has decided to leave the block. That seems to have zero impact on what you think should happen next. Let's say the block had been overturned. What impact would that have had for you on the merits of whether or not she should be an admin (which is what ArbCom and only Arbcom can decide)? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 19:20, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

@Barkeep49 I believe the difference is simply between an expedited case and a desysop by motion. The community is clear on what should be happening, we have the evidence (unless something else is brought to light by the subject) so there is little left to be said, besides a simple motion to desysop. If there was confusion amongst the community, a more detailed case would be required, because the entire process and decision is helpful for the community. Worm^TT(talk) 19:33, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

So what you're saying is that you needed to hear more from the community? For me the ability of the community to leave statements at the case request are the chance for the community to weigh in on how ArbCom should handle the case. In fact at ARC you can get direct statements about which outcome is right rather than having to make an inference by the reaction at ANI. In many circumstances waiting for an ANI thread to close is the right decision - see the BHG case request as an obvious (semi-)recent prominent example but not all circumstances. I am suggesting what the community had to handle - what if anything to do about the block - is a different question with a different answer (and thought process) than what arbcom had to answer - what if anything to do about her sysop rights. best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:04, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

• Allow me to intrude. When an account acts so strangely that multiple people think it has been compromised, whether or not that is true, it's good reason to revoke sysop access immediately. A deliberate process can occur afterwards to confirm that whatever has gone wrong will not go wrong again, and to decide whether or not to restore sysop access. I think this would be a good step to take in the present case. I am friends with both Athaenara and the target of her remarks. This is so disappointing... Jehochman ^Talk 03:20, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

  I disagree with that, @Jehochman. Historically, yes, that was absolutely true, but in the past few years safeguards were put in place. Compromised accounts are now globally locked, which means they cannot even be logged into their account. Non-compromised accounts can be blocked, and while blocked, they cannot use their admin user rights. As such, there is less urgency on immediate revocation and more on taking the right action Worm^TT(talk) 07:38, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

  I don’t mind if people disagree. What I’m saying is that if there’s any doubt as to whether a user is in control of their account, or if they might not be in their right mind, you pull admin rights first and ask questions later. When in doubt, disable advanced rights. That’s the correct procedure from a cybersecurity perspective. Now, it’s good that blocks stop admins from self unblocking (they didn’t used to) but still this account could theoretically be unblocked at any moment by any admin. Jehochman ^Talk 10:55, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

  WTT is referring to a global lock, placed by Stewards, which supersedes local block settings and does actually prevent the person from logging in altogether. –xeno^talk 12:31, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Apology

I'm sorry if I stepped on your toes and acted in a way you thought was out of line. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:39, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you @Ritchie333 I do accept your apology. This was a very difficult situation and a lot of people were bothered by it. I do get what you did and why you did it, and were it not before arbcom, I would have even supported your action as a way to de-escalate the situation. Unfortunately, in the circumstances, you were also disenfranchising the individual, which is why I asked you not to. Worm^TT(talk) 09:06, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Essentially, I mis-interpreted "If you want to stop feeding the wikipedia "drama", that is absolutely reasonable, and the committee's email is open to you" as you no longer having any objections. It's the age-old problem of text communication being easy to misunderstand and make incorrect assumptions, I guess. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:04, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense, and certainly explains what happens next. I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Worm^TT(talk) 10:45, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

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Collusion checks

Commenting here so as not to increase the temperature further—regarding "I have never seen a check for "collusion" in the past", there are (rare) precedents; see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Llywelyn2000/Archive for an example. I've never seen one outside the very specific circumstances of "there's reason to believe these people got together in the flesh to coordinate tag-teaming"; nor, outside that very specific circumstance, can I see how a CU could possibly be of any use. ‑ Iridescent 16:21, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Cheers @Iridescent. I'll have a review of that, but as you say, it's not common! Worm^TT(talk) 16:40, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

AAU

Hi, I'm Clovermoss. Kudpung mentioned you as one of the most experienced adopters on the project here [1] so I was wondering if maybe you had some thoughts about the process in general? I had a good experience with Nick Moyes a few years ago but I got the impression even then that the project was kind of... close to inactive? Looking at the talk page, that still seems to be the case. xtools indicates that you've been here since 2008 which is a really long time, so I was wondering if maybe you had a more long-term perspective on what it used to be like? If you don't mind, I'm a bit curious. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 03:19, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Clovermoss! I did see Kudpung's ping, but I'm so out of touch with the area of integrating new editors that I didn't think it was worth me chiming in. Kudpung's right, I did pretty much run the "Adopt a user" scheme for a number of years, and was largely on my own doing so back then too. Bit of a history lesson - but that was around 2009-2011, ADOPT was already pretty much defunct. I had decided to mentor someone so put my Wikipedia knowledge into a course (much of which can still be seen in my alt account's subpages User:WormTT/Adopt). I built a "lesson" based plan (based on Hersfold's before me), which users could read through and had a simple test associated with it, which explained the important concepts of the encyclopedia at the time.

How successful it was is a bit of a grey area. I'm not sure how many of my past mentees are still editing, but a few did take the concept of the lesson based HQ and re-use it. When the teahouse came along, we rather stuck with that - it fulfilled the gap between 1:1 mentorship and the (then) unfriendly helpdesk.

Generally, we do have a problem on Wikipedia, one we've never really solved. There is a technical barrier to joining which Visual Editor and this ReplyTool have helped with, but both have their limitations (I can't stand VE myself!) - but there's also the counterintuitive policy barrier. We use words that mean one thing on English and another in Wikipedian - and we just expect newcomers to understand. We have pages and pages of stuff you should read before you start, then encourage people to just have a go. As we're not homogenous, we have some editors who will get grumpy seeing the same sort of problems every day. It's a difficult balance to find.. and I get the impression I'm rambling! If you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Worm^TT(talk) 13:35, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. I don't mind rambling so don't force yourself to be concise on my behalf.

Nick didn't really have a formal lesson plan, he mentioned that and wanted to make sure I was okay with that at the time. I didn't care. It's interesting to understand what he was probably reffering to, though.

As for newbie resources, we have a ton of help pages and templates and everything but it's not always easy to figure out where the information you're looking for is. It's one of the reasons I like Wikipedia:Help button.

As for the new user mentorship currently going on, it's mostly one-off questions and you rarely get a response beyond that. I think that's why I started thinking about AAU in response to Trialpears comment... greater interaction, a more personal connection, etc. At least that's what it was like for me. I found in the talk page archives what I was thinking of in regards to the project being basically inactive for a decade at Wikipedia talk:Adopt-a-user/Archive 6#I disagree with dropping adoptee for 30 days of inactivity. It's honestly nostalgic to read all that again.

Anyways, if you're curious, I've been thinking about a lot related to the newbie experience for several months at this point. If you're ever bored enough to read for hours, this goes into much more detail regarding my thoughts. I also have User:Clovermoss/Mobile editing but it's still a work-in-progress. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 14:09, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Urban v rural parishes

June article Blofield Heath, July Hunger Hill, Greater Manchester, August Charlton Abbots, September Menethorpe, October Oldbury, Warwickshire.

Something I have recently learnt is that prior to 1974 there were urban parishes and rural parishes.

Rural parishes functioned much like all parishes do today, they tended to correspond to "natural" boundaries, the boundaries were generally stable and they had their own parish council or at least parish meeting and thus would be inherently notable.

Urban parishes were more arbitrary and sometimes included tracts from what was part of a rural parish when an urban district was formed for example Sandridge Urban being a small part of St Albans district, most ended up being merged so that there was a single urban parish concurrent with the urban district but a few like in Woking still had 4 namely Byfleet, Horsell, Pyrford and Woking. Though the Woking parishes would likely be notable anyway as they are settlements it may be argued that those that were only ever urban parishes without ever having been rural parishes (or also being settlements) maybe shouldn't be treated as inherently notable though they did still exist for electron purposes and at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom/Archive 10#Proposed deletion of all articles on local government subdivisions wards, divisions etc. there appeared to be consensus wards are notable.

While there isn't a legal definition of urban and rural parishes the term can still be used for parishes that are formed in pre 1974 unparished areas like Letchworth Garden City and Offerton Park, such parishes are often controversial for tax reasons and end up being abolished, see Offerton Park#Attempts at abolition and Letchworth#Letchworth Garden City Council (2005–2013) but such parishes do have their own councils and would thus be inherently notable.

If we do at some point move my restrictions only creating former parishes we could only allow pre-1974 rural parishes. See User:Crouch, Swale/Warwickshire ([2] original version) and User:Crouch, Swale/Hertfordshire ([3] original version) for example, in the category 1 parishes in the Warwickshire one they are OS settlements and standalone settlements, category 2 is OS settlements that are OS settlements but not standalone settlements, 3rd is rural parishes that aren't OS settlements and the 4th is urban parishes that aren't OS settlements and thus maybe shouldn't exist. In the future this distinction may well be helpful to ensure I'm creating notable topics. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:32, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Restrictions

Since I have got on with editing for a significant amount of time without any significant problems what do you make of just removing the restrictions as suggested? As long as I have an editing plan and a probation period it should be OK? I think we could try this and it would save the need for anymore appeals. I think in 2022 I can be trusted to follow what's asked of me without restrictions but if not I strongly suggest easing the restrictions by article topic namely things like allowing only parishes. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Crouch, Swale. As far as I'm concerned, your main restriction is around stopping you mass creating pages that do not have consensus to be created. In the last half decade, I've seen nothing that dispels that concern - we asked you to get consensus that the pages you wanted should be created, you couldn't - yet every change has been to slowly allow you to keep creating these same pages.

I will not support removal of that restriction Worm^TT(talk) 12:55, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

If you don't want to remove the restrictions completely that's fine but at least we should allow a specified on unspecified number of articles on a particular topic that we know can be created. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Signature reminder userscript?

Hi, I'm looking for the userscript that reminds editors to sign their comments, as mentioned by you at User:WormTT/Adopt/Wikiquette. ––FormalDude (talk) 10:58, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh, that's going back a bit @FormalDude! I used to use Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/qSig, but haven't since 2013! Not sure if it still works. Worm^TT(talk) 11:29, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Only one way to find out. (Intentionally unsigned comment from FormalDude)

Or you could look at the history of the page - where you'll see it was blanked in 2017 for not following coding standards. Worm^TT(talk) 11:34, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Ah, duh. Thanks. ––FormalDude (talk) 16:40, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Seasons Greetings

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Donner60 (talk) 01:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy Christmas, WTT!

Hello Worm That Turned: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, TheSandDoctor ^Talk 18:10, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

From my family to yours: Merry Christmas, Dave! I hope that you have a wonderful holiday season. TheSandDoctor ^Talk 18:10, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

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Mail call

ygm TonyBallioni (talk) 05:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

ARCA 2023

Even if you don't support removing the restrictions completely (something I think could be done with an editing plan to discourage me from mass creating short stubs) at least could you please support allowing a number of parishes to be created either as well as or instead of my 1 a month on anything, see User:Crouch, Swale/Motions. Please can I have 1 chance. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:00, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

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Bureaucrat chat - invitation to participate

The RfA for MB has gone to a bureaucrat chat. Please join in the discussion. Primefac (talk) 15:02, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

hackers targeting persons that don't convey into their schemes

Who does a victim turn too 2001:5B0:4ED0:1968:74CE:44D9:B8E4:10D3 (talk) 11:02, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

That would very much depend on the location - but I would recommend contacting your local authorities. Worm^TT(talk) 11:32, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

ARCA 2024

Regarding the complete removal per User:SilkTork in 2024 and the topics I'm interested in.

• Civil parishes, are presumed notable except perhaps pre 1974 urban parishes. I should create all other than perhaps the pre 1974 urban parishes but I need to make sure the articles have sufficient content etc.
• BUAs/BUASDs, are probably notable though some that aren't settlements may fail WP:GEOLAND in terms of "other areas not commonly recognized as a place are not presumed to be notable". I could probably create quite a few of those that are settlements.
• Domesday places, most are likely notable but like BUAs they could fall under areas not commonly recognized as places, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Caldecote, Buckinghamshire for an example of an AFD. I could probably create some at least those that are/were settlements.
• Villages, are generally presumed notable, almost all villages will have been legally recognized in some way at some point. I can probably create most of the few that don't exist yet.
• Hamlets, are controversial, some feel all can exist some while others feel they should generally be included in the parish they are in. I probably shouldn't create many hamlet articles.
• Islands, are generally notable unless very small. I could probably create some but make sure their notable.
• Listed buildings, are controversial, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/172 High Street, Elstow (2nd nomination) its been argued that all listed buildings are notable per WP:GEOFEAT and years ago I argued that all are notable but actually I don't think that should be the case. There are around 300,000 Grade II listed buildings in England and many don't have much sourcing/significant outside the listing so I'd argue that all should be included on Wikipedia but most shouldn't have standalone articles but rather as I previously suggested with a bot to have a list for each parish/unparished area like Listed buildings in Dalston, Cumbria. I would even go as far as to say I don't think most Grade II* listed buildings will be notable I'd I'd further say that while more than half of Grade I listed buildings are likely to merit a standalone article that they may not be inherently notable. I plan soon to start a discussion on this.

I think as long as I mainly stick to presumed notable/likely notable topics and don't create many topics that may well not be notable I should be fine. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Crouch, Swale. I don't expect to be on the committee for ARCA 2024. I have also made my position quite clear. You should not be mass creating articles. You should not be creating articles with "presumed" notability or "probable" notability - but instead only creating articles that you personally can establish notability and therefore write a non-stub article about. Therefore, were I on the committee, I would oppose any change to the topic ban, which I believe suits its intended purpose. Worm^TT(talk) 08:55, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Crouch, Swale, I think it is worth noting that "presumed notable" means that if there are sufficient reliable sources attesting to the existence of a place that such an article will likely survive an AfD. There does, however, need to be reliable sources cited when creating an article. SilkTork (talk) 10:55, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@SilkTork: by "presumed notable" I was referring to topics that are inherently notable such as municipalities and species. As Wikipedia:Notability says a topic can be presumed notable if it either satisfies GNG or a subject-specific notability guideline unless excluded by WP:NOT. If the topic is inherently notable it will generally be kept at AFD unless an exception applies. If the topic isn't inherently notable (or may not be) then generally significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the topic must be presented otherwise the topic is deleted or merged. My point about listed buildings is that despite the guideline apparently suggesting their notable I have doubts and that they would be better covered in a list like the one presented above or see Listed buildings in Helbeck for a small one (of which I created the parish-Helbeck) as 172 High Street, Elstow now does as I suggested at the AFD. Just remember per WP:ARTN that there isn't a requirement that the sources are currently in the article but I would make sure they were. To give an example of a place that would be inherently notable, see Stanwix Rural which is a unit with its own local government would be notable even if significant textual coverage doesn't exist but per WP:GEOLAND for places without that like Heavy Woollen District (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Heavy Woollen District) they generally need to pass GNG but even if inherently notable I need to create articles with reasonable content. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:32, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

All articles require sufficient reliable sources. That is the point which I am trying to impress upon you, and which seems to cause you problems. If an article is deemed to be "presumed notable" AND has sufficient reliable sources then it will likely survive an AfD as a stand alone article. If an article does not have sufficient reliable sources but is "presumed notable" then it won't be speedy deleted, but could be taken to AfD for discussion. Any plan of yours for creating articles must include a provision for providing sufficient reliable sources in order to save the community time and effort from discussing each article to establish if it is notable. I am not going to get involved with this issue any further as you have a way, Crouch, Swale, of eating up people's time for little or no return. I will not be responding to any more pings. SilkTork (talk) 18:04, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes all my articles should have sources that will avoid unnecessary trips to AFD/editors time upon creation. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:09, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Quick clarification on an Arbcom case

Hey Worm (yay I'm back again :) )

I had a quick question, so figured I'll just ask here instead of making a full statement just to get a clarification.

If I'm reading correctly, here you stated that Black Kite and @Floquenbeam: suggested indef-blocking DBachmann (with caveats/until they reply/etc etc). But best I can tell, Floq did not make such a suggestion at the case request. Am I being confused, or is there another discussion on this I missed? Thanks.

Soni (talk) 12:13, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

On a phone so I can’t link properly, but I suggested that at the bottom of my talk page. I assume wtt, like all cool people, has that on his watchlist. Floquenbeam (talk) 12:17, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Hey, that’s where WTT got his “thumb his nose” phrasing! I knew it sounded familiar! Floquenbeam (talk) 12:20, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Soni good to see you back! I knew I had seen it somewhere (and I thank Floq for pointing out where!). For the record, I've also seen JBL make a similar suggestion at the ANI thread. Am quite tempted to write up a potential community desysop process where Admins can block other admins with community consensus - and if it sticks for say, a month, then the bit is automatically removed.

@Floquenbeam I didn't intentionally quote you re the thumbing nose! I'd clearly read it and it had stuck in my head. G'ah! Worm^TT(talk) 12:21, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Happens to me all the time Floquenbeam (talk) 12:24, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

• Am quite tempted to write up a potential community desysop process...

Honestly anything in that direction would be both great and much needed. I've stated it a couple times before and I'll say it again, we need more community consensus based steps for admin accountability, so just that proposal seems to be a massive step up from just Arbcom enforced procedures. I haven't been back long enough to observe enough of the community, but I'd definitely be interested in checking out/being another set of eyes on such a proposal.

And thanks for the pro tip Floq, I now have you watchlisted as well :) Soni (talk) 13:02, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Cmt: Procedural community desysop

Worm, while I am (currently) opposing the proposal, I appreciate the thought that went behind it, esp. the exact way you instituted the 28-day period between the block and the desysop, which eliminates two potential flaws (need for a cooling off/appeal period; issue with blocks that are overturned or shortened) that a less thought-out procedure would have had. Kudos. Abecedare (talk) 15:58, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Appreciate it @Abecedare - I have no idea if this will pass, but I do think it's the way to start moving forwards in this area. Worm^TT(talk) 16:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

I composed the above before I read your reply to me at the RFC. I get your point and will have to think whether my "philosophical" objection is strong enough to stand in the way of a proposal that arguably will be an improvement in practice. Will mull over it as the RFC runs; don't wish to flood it (or your talkpage) with my every fleeting thought on the matter.:) Abecedare (talk) 16:06, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Abecedare my talk page is always open for fleeting musings, though you will have to excuse the staplers who might wax lyrical also Worm^TT(talk) 16:31, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Greeting!

WTT is around.

Had i known you were in town, i'd've offered a pint! Those three initials always draw you to mind Happy days, ~ Lindsay^Hello 19:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Procedural notification of additional proposal at an RfC you participated in

Hi, I and others have proposed additional options at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#RfC_on_a_procedural_community_desysop. You may wish to review your position in that RfC. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:13, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of List of Red Dwarf concepts for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of Red Dwarf concepts is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Red Dwarf concepts until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:52, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Notification of administrators without tools

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Former parishes

I'm currently adding population data, when abolished, coordinates/infoboxes and location information for former parishes, see User:Crouch, Swale/Former civil parishes to articles that already exist. Unfortunately very few of the articles have this kind of information already. If my restrictions get modified next year after I've created all the current ones I should then work on creating the category 1, 2 and 3 former parishes but as noted probably not category 4 ones. I got a bit behind with adding the data to former parishes due to checking listed buildings Commons categories but that's not largely done so I should be back on track. For my January article I requested Upton, Huntingdonshire history split with Peterborough one, February Prestwood, East Staffordshire, March Woolstone, Gloucestershire and April Hunton, Hampshire which are on my former parish lists as category 1 (top priority). I have also started an AFD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kirklees, Calderdale for a village that doesn't appear to ever have existed under that name. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:28, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

AFD was closed as delete. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:08, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Woodhouses, May. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:50, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Long time no see

Hi WTT,

I hope you are doing well. A long time ago you kindly adopted me as a user when I was much more active on Wikipedia. Shortly after we started briefly collaborating however, I took a job with long hours and life curtailed my Wiki editing to a low level. I still use the site regularly though.

As I see you are still very active here, I wanted to ask your advice on a question I have. I'm a member of WikiProject Gastropods, and I have access to a large number of top quality marine life photos that a good friend of mine took. He wants to donate them to the Commons, so that many people can enjoy his photos freely online. However, he's not tech savvy at all and has asked me to do the upload them to the Commons and handle the Wikipedia editing side for him.

How should I go about doing this? Is it possible for me to upload them and then just attribute them to him? If not, I think there is no way these photos will ever see the light of day unfortunately if he has to do it himself. If you have any ideas on protocol in this situation, I'd love to hear! Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 14:30, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Antarctic-adventurer - apologies for the delay in replying, I am not nearly as active as I used to be! I would recommend he contacts the photo submission helpdesk at photosubmissionwikimedia.org. They'd be able to advice much better than I! Worm^TT(talk) 08:45, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi WTT,

Me too, life gets in the way :) Thanks for the recommendation, I will do so. All the best! Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 17:10, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

IP Block exemption request

Hello @Worm That Turned, Please can you assist me with an IPBE for the following user. They will like to contribute to the African Day Campaign. Please do create accounts for the other users who have accounts on other wikis but do not have an account on this wiki.

• Hussein m mmbaga (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• sadammuhammad11234 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Kwaku benny (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Bugirbiig (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• kwamevaughan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Atibrarian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Semmy1960 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Maagyam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Aliyu shaba (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Ogbeni Adewale (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Fine acer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Mikogh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Myzz Evelyn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Sureyaill (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Nana Kwabena Boakye-Yiadom (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Christian Owusu Ansah (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Belinda Acquah (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Please do update pertaining to any issues associated to any of the accounts.

Thank you and hope to read from you soon. JDQ Joris Darlington Quarshie (talk) 19:31, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

You've got mail!

Hello, Worm That Turned. Please check your email; you've got mail!
Message added 01:43, 27 June 2023 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

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Happy Adminship Anniversary!

Wishing Worm That Turned a very That Turned happy adminship anniversary on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee! Have a great day! Heart (talk) 06:28, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Notification of administrators without tools

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July music

July songs

my story today

While today's DYK highlights Santiago on his day, I did my modest share with my story today, describing what I just experienced, pictured. I began the article of the woman in green. - Looking around (Mozart, Wagner, Mendelssohn), I believe that infoboxes are no longer a contentious topic. People debate, but without weapons, it seems. I have better things to do than participate, see? What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:12, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Listening to Siegfried from the 2023 Bayreuth Festival, third act, Andreas Schager as Siegfried waking up Brünnhilde. Which reminds me of this discussion. Was there anything in it demanding arbitration? - A few weeks later, three participants were admonished, - for what still remains a mystery to me? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:06, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Current discussion

Hi WTT, I am sorry to read that you are disappointed by me for not doing something publicly. I am willing to disclose the other accounts I was editing in the past if it is this what you suggest. On the grumble on the CU tool, I also believe the CU process can be improved and the discussion was motivated by this at least in part, but I am not sure if my experience is actually wanted.

I'd also give the participants of the discussion an apology for causing concern, but I do not feel so much comfortable in adding text to a page where I was advised to drop the stick. If the discussion is going on, I'd prefer that it would take place elsewhere so I can defend myself a bit more comfortable. If there is anything else I can do to calm down the situation, thanks for letting me know Paradise Chronicle (talk) 10:42, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle As far as I'm concerned, you need to be squeaky clean, having been warned about behaviour in an Arbcom case and managed to get away with breaching our abuse of multiple account policies. Squeaky clean does not involve bothering the person who rightly called you out for that abuse, accusing them of harassment and from what I can see, trying to wind them up. My grumble on the CU tool does not concern you and is not related to the process, which you of all people should be leaving alone. Any further discussion of a block by the committee would take place on list, so I would suggest that if you want to say something to the committee as a whole, you email arbcom-enwikimedia.org. Or if you really want it all publicly debated, try WP:ARCA Worm^TT(talk) 12:46, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply. I am not sure what is meant by winding up, but I believe this is not what I intended. Anyhow, I believe most is a misunderstanding and some clarification, either at the ARCA (which I believe is a bit a long way) or elsewhere might help. I'd really appreciate if I get explained what was wrong and what's ok. I don't want to edit and be transparent on my successes and failures just to hear a few years later that this was not allowed. If ARCA is the only way, that's ok, too. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 14:39, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and raised a motion for discussion. Worm^TT(talk) 14:44, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll by happy to comment when I find the time. A site ban needs quite a preparation though. To make it short for the start, I'd like to see some evidence on my deception from wikipedia. I am quite an open supporter of Wikipedia and I have numerous diffs for that.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 14:54, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

I only now understood deception, you were right. I tried to clean my account with my coming clear about it. Best regards,Paradise Chronicle (talk) 10:47, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Pppery/Bureaucrat chat

Please see Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Pppery/Bureaucrat chat and join the discussion when you have an opportunity. Maxim (talk) 18:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Former parishes

I've been working on making sure, current parish, district, county, infobox, coordinates, most recent population and when abolished are included in the existing articles on former parishes, see User:Crouch, Swale/Former civil parishes. I'm about 3/4 of the way done and should be done well before I can appeal. In terms of evidence for lifting the restrictions this surely is good evidence for this? The fact that I have made these kind of improvements to thousands of former parishes over the years with no known problems seems that its unlikely for the few category 1 and even category 2 parishes that are still missing there will be problems with me creating them. In other words if in addition to the consensus that they are notable the fact that I have improved existing articles with no known problems suggests I can be trusted to create the remaining ones. Do you agree that this is good evidence?

June, Borough of Hove, July, Braintree and Bocking. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:02, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Crouch, Swale I believe I have been fairly clear with my opinion on such matters, but it's of no consequence. I believe it's time for me to roll off the committee, so I won't be there for your next appeal. Worm^TT(talk) 08:34, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Well I think I've managed plenty well enough with what I can do and its soon time to just remove the restrictions as I believe its both in the interests of the project as a whole and myself even if I follow advice on number of articles etc. Crouch, Swale (talk) 15:54, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:RPPD inquiry

Hello, you page protected User:Mbz1 per their block in 2012. Wondered if the full protection was still needed, or if the protection level could be lowered to allow for WP:LINT syntax error corrections. I have extended confirmed level. Thank you for considering. Zinnober9 (talk) 02:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@Zinnober9 apologies for the delay. I have reduced it to EC protection. Please make as few edits as possible and don't change the look / feel. Don't want to open that can of worms! Worm^TT(talk) 08:38, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

No worries, had some other things on my plate last week and this wasn't a pressing issue. Thank you for lowering. I generally do well with getting all issues of interest corrected within one edit, but I do have the occasional double dipping when something unexpected and wonky pops up. Some fostered content issues, due to the nature of the error, do change how things appear spatially when they are fixed, but in general, I try to keep things as visually unchanged where possible. My adjustment here straightened up the image spacing to a less random fill pattern, but otherwise it keeps a similar atmosphere.

Hope you have a great week, Zinnober9 (talk) 23:52, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Notification of administrators without tools

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Notification of administrators without tools

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Your email

I have replied. Cullen328 (talk) 19:00, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

ygm

Hi WTT, long time no speak. Just flicked you an email, not in any way urgent. -- Euryalus (talk) 11:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your work on the Arbitration Committee. I'm sorry to read that you're stepping down, but I understand that life outside Wikipedia sometimes doesn't leave room for that demanding position. Hope to see you back soon editing and enjoying your time here. All the best, BlackcurrantTea (talk) 16:54, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @BlackcurrantTea Worm^TT(talk) 07:54, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for all the work you've done to keep this place working!

Hi Worm That Turned, Thanks very much for all that you've done. Any time I've seen comments from you on a Talk page, or a Request for Admin status, I've always paid close attention, because it's always worth listening to your comments. I have only the vaguest idea of what goes on behind the scenes to keep Wikipedia working, but I do know how much we depend on people like you. Thanks! Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 19:38, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Being an Arb

As you noted, being an arbitrator tends to be a thankless job. And deals with a whole host of responsibilities and issues.

What you agreed with or didn't is immaterial at this point. It's that you stepped up to serve and did so earnestly, offering your sincere opinion in good faith.

So, whatever it's worth from one Wikipedian - Thank you. - jc37 17:13, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

@Jc37 Thank you very much for your comments, and the barnstar below. I do appreciate it. It's surprisingly refreshing to open Wikipedia a few days later without the weight of the behind the scenes. Worm^TT(talk) 07:54, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

You're very welcome. Well deserved : )

And I can only imagine. Though with your past experiences, I would imagine that you can probably "read the tea leaves" pretty well lol

All that said, I think yours is a voice that will be missed on the committee.

I wish you well. Happy editing : ) - jc37 14:54, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

I have to echo what jc37 has said. Thank you for everything that you have done for the project and for arbcom, WTT. Keep in touch. TheSandDoctor ^Talk 16:23, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Barnstar!

		The Teamwork Barnstar
		The Teamwork Barnstar - For generously donating your time in service of the Wikipedia community by serving on the Arbitration Committee. - jc37 17:18, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

RfA

May I be a sysop? I have read many policies and have no record of vandalizing. D o o t e d . (talk) 19:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

(by talk reader) @DootSkull: No. Whatever you thought you read, you clearly didn't read WP:RFAADVICE. I am glad that you announced what sort of person you are so we know how to treat you. Other people are more tricky and it takes us longer to figure out. Chris Troutman (talk) 20:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

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Happy Holidays

Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension. Happy Holidays to you and yours. The editor retention project was created back in July of 2012 and is still considered active. The lights are on and the rent is paid for the foreseeable future. Stop by for a chat. Start a thread. Nominate a fellow editor to be Editor of the Week. It's still a good idea. ―Buster7 ☎

Seasons Greetings!

Hello there, thanks for all of your contributions to Wikipedia! Wishing you and Stacey a Very Merry Christmas and here's to a happy and productive 2024! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:55, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

2024 appeal

Soon I'm going to start my appeal which is drafted at User:Crouch, Swale/Appeal. Do you have any advice about it before I start? thanks. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:03, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm not on Arbcom any more. I believe I've made my position clear - but luckily you don't have worry about that. Worm^TT(talk) 13:30, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Job done

		Job Done
		For good services as an admin, a Crat, an Arb, an editor, and a significant member of the community who gave help and assistance to many. SilkTork (talk) 14:27, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Inquiry from Clovermoss

Hi WormThatTurned. I saw your post at BN a few days ago and wish you well. I don't think we've interacted much, if at all, but I've definitely seen your username around.

Um... I want to ask if you'd like to chip in at User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections? I hope this doesn't come across as a selfish request, so please feel free to ignore it if you just wish to just enjoy your retirement. The reason I'm asking is because there's a forseeable future editing question and given that I'm asking a bunch of active editors about this, most people have said yes. I think it'd valuable to have the perspective of a few nos. Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 01:26, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for everything

I wish you nothing but the best wherever life takes you next. I know I wasn't the best student; but I definitely had the best mentor. Barts1a / Talk to me 00:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

You kept going and did positive edits Barts, I think you did a great job, and I'm sure you will again Worm^TT(talk) 09:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for all the fish!

Mentorship and learning from you has been a real pleasure. I don't think I told you, but of everyone I used to know onwiki, I was proudest to know you. Institution or not, you were just a solid presence that made people stick around and like the Wiki just a bit more. Thank you for being kind and welcoming :) Soni (talk) 08:35, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words Soni. I do appreciate them, and I'm certainly glad to know I made a difference! Worm^TT(talk) 09:26, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Damn...

I'm sorry to see you go. Thank you for the years of time, dedication, and care that you've given to this project. I refuse to say that this is "goodbye forever"; instead, I'll simply say it to you this way... "until we meet again". I wish you nothing but happiness, joy, good health, and good luck with whatever future lies before you. Goodbye, my friend. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 04:16, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

I will second this. I am truly sad to see you go, WTT. You are one of the best. "until we meet again" ♥ TheSandDoctor ^Talk 04:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Just saw this. I add my thanks for your great contributions here and wish you the best for the future. Donner60 (talk) 07:46, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Just saw this myself. You've been great, and a real loss. You said that you were leaving because of being too busy, basically, and I hope and assume that is true, rather than the other reason. Well, whatever you are busy with, I hereby request that you enjoy it. Herostratus (talk) 03:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

@Donner60 @Herostratus @Oshwah & @TheSandDoctor, thank you all for taking the time to come over here and leave a message. I'm glad I made a difference, and I really do appreciate all the kind words left here. Worm^TT(talk) 09:27, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Sorry to hear you've left

You were, by some distance, an outstanding contributor to the project. I was alerted to your retirement by a mutual admirer. All the best, and thank you for the time you took personally to help me. Godspeed. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:10, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Love the idea I have admirers! Thanks for the comments @TRM - I do believe you were worth the time, without a doubt having made a difference to the encyclopedia. Worm^TT(talk) 09:29, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

February music

story · music · places

Music and flowers on Rossini's rare birthday. - A few years after I said that your edit for Beethoven was the one I liked best, that's still true. - Best wishes for what you want to do. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

RFA2024 update: no longer accepting new proposals in phase I

Hey there! This is to let you know that phase I of the 2024 requests for adminship (RfA) review is now no longer accepting new proposals. Lots of proposals remain open for discussion, and the current round of review looks to be on a good track towards making significant progress towards improving RfA's structure and environment. I'd like to give my heartfelt thanks to everyone who has given us their idea for change to make RfA better, and the same to everyone who has given the necessary feedback to improve those ideas. The following proposals remain open for discussion:

• Proposal 2, initiated by HouseBlaster, provides for the addition of a text box at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship reminding all editors of our policies and enforcement mechanisms around decorum.
• Proposals 3 and 3b, initiated by Barkeep49 and Usedtobecool, respectively, provide for trials of discussion-only periods at RfA. The first would add three extra discussion-only days to the beginning, while the second would convert the first two days to discussion-only.
• Proposal 5, initiated by SilkTork, provides for a trial of RfAs without threaded discussion in the voting sections.
• Proposals 6c and 6d, initiated by BilledMammal, provide for allowing users to be selected as provisional admins for a limited time through various concrete selection criteria and smaller-scale vetting.
• Proposal 7, initiated by Lee Vilenski, provides for the "General discussion" section being broken up with section headings.
• Proposal 9b, initiated by Reaper Eternal, provides for the requirement that allegations of policy violation be substantiated with appropriate links to where the alleged misconduct occured.
• Proposals 12c, 21, and 21b, initiated by City of Silver, Ritchie333, and HouseBlaster, respectively, provide for reducing the discretionary zone, which currently extends from 65% to 75%. The first would reduce it 65%–70%, the second would reduce it to 50%–66%, and the third would reduce it to 60%–70%.
• Proposal 13, initiated by Novem Lingaue, provides for periodic, privately balloted admin elections.
• Proposal 14, initiated by Kusma, provides for the creation of some minimum suffrage requirements to cast a vote.
• Proposals 16 and 16c, initiated by Thebiguglyalien and Soni, respectively, provide for community-based admin desysop procedures. 16 would desysop where consensus is established in favor at the administrators' noticeboard; 16c would allow a petition to force reconfirmation.
• Proposal 16e, initiated by BilledMammal, would extend the recall procedures of 16 to bureaucrats.
• Proposal 17, initiated by SchroCat, provides for "on-call" admins and 'crats to monitor RfAs for decorum.
• Proposal 18, initiated by theleekycauldron, provides for lowering the RfB target from 85% to 75%.
• Proposal 24, initiated by SportingFlyer, provides for a more robust alternate version of the optional candidate poll.
• Proposal 25, initiated by Femke, provides for the requirement that nominees be extended-confirmed in addition to their nominators.
• Proposal 27, initiated by WereSpielChequers, provides for the creation of a training course for admin hopefuls, as well as periodic retraining to keep admins from drifting out of sync with community norms.
• Proposal 28, initiated by HouseBlaster, tightens restrictions on multi-part questions.

To read proposals that were closed as unsuccessful, please see Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase I/Closed proposals. You are cordially invited once again to participate in the open discussions; when phase I ends, phase II will review the outcomes of trial proposals and refine the implementation details of other proposals. Another notification will be sent out when this phase begins, likely with the first successful close of a major proposal. Happy editing! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her), via:

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:53, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to other languages.

Dear Wikimedian,

You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process.

This is a reminder that the voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) ends on May 9, 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility.

The Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community members were invited to submit their applications for the U4C. For more information and the responsibilities of the U4C, please review the U4C Charter.

Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.

On behalf of the UCoC project team,

RamzyM (WMF) 23:10, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

RFA2024 update: phase I concluded, phase II begins

Hi there! Phase I of the Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/2024 review has concluded, with several impactful changes gaining community consensus and proceeding to various stages of implementation. Some proposals will be implemented in full outright; others will be discussed at phase II before being implemented; and still others will proceed on a trial basis before being brought to phase II. The following proposals have gained consensus:

• Proposals 2 and 9b (phase II discussion): Add a reminder of civility norms at RfA and Require links for claims of specific policy violations
• Proposal 3b (in trial): Make the first two days discussion-only
• Proposal 13 (in trial): Admin elections
• Proposal 14 (implemented): Suffrage requirements
• Proposals 16 and 16c (phase II discussion): Allow the community to initiate recall RfAs and Community recall process based on dewiki
• Proposal 17 (phase II discussion): Have named Admins/crats to monitor infractions
• Proposal 24 (phase II discussion): Provide better mentoring for becoming an admin and the RfA process
• Proposal 25 (implemented): Require nominees to be extended confirmed

See the project page for a full list of proposals and their outcomes. A huge thank-you to everyone who has participated so far :) looking forward to seeing lots of hard work become a reality in phase II. theleekycauldron (talk), via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:09, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Closed or refurbishing?

"Cheers!"

Just saw the closing down sign. Sorry to see you go, you're a Wiki institution and your wisdom and tireless optimism will be sorely missed. On behalf of the old fogies of yesteryear club, hope this is simply a refurbish and refit and the "open for business" sign goes up again soon. Either way, all the best. -- Euryalus (talk) 19:45, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Closed for now, I'm afraid. Taking stock, I just don't have the time for Wikipedia any more, and I'd prefer to be true to the values that I pushed regarding the admin toolset. I'm not disillusioned with the project or anything like that, so I'm not saying I won't return, just that I don't see it happening any time soon. Worm^TT(talk) 14:57, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi WTT! Just saw this at BN. Saddened to see it, but hope your time away is successful in every measure you hope for, and then some. I truly hope to see you around occasionally in the immediate future, and around regularly when things "calm down." In any case, thanks so much for all the good you've done for Wikipedia in general, and for me in particular. Be well! 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 01:56, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @78.26, I do appreciate the kind words. Worm^TT(talk) 14:58, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

All the best in whatever life throws at you, Dave. I have enjoyed working with you these past couple years. I don't believe I have ever mentioned this to you, but this is what motivated me to stick around and start taking this project seriously. It might not have been a big deal for you at the time, but I've never forgotten. Take care. – bradv 05:35, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

It's always amazing how things like that can make a big difference - I'd forgotten that I had done that, but reading over the comment I made at the time, it was certainly deserved. @BusterD should take pride in the fact he's made such a difference with that project. All I can suggest is pay it forward. Worm^TT(talk) 15:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I'd take all the undue applause I can get, but proper credit for EotW goes to the inimitable User:Buster7, not to a mere mortal like myself. BusterD (talk) 15:33, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

D'oh. I'm getting old. Worm^TT(talk) 16:10, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I know you would... 76.20.110.116 (talk) 03:44, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Best wishes, Worm, for whatever life is holding for you outside Wikipedia. We met at the Judges Lodgings Event in Lancaster many years ago, and I've seen you being wise around the encyclopedia ever since. Thanks for your contributions. PamD 07:53, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @PamD - I did enjoy that Judges Lodgings event, as well as a few other events I attended! I don't know about "being wise", but I won't complain if that's the impression I've given! Worm^TT(talk) 15:01, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your long service, Worm That Turned. Wishing you good luck and good health. starship.paint (RUN) 15:38, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Starship.paint Thanks for popping by to leave a note, I appreciate it. Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• I'm really sad to see this. All the best, and I really hope to see you back someday. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:01, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

  Vanamonde93, As I've mentioned, I have far less time free these days. Every six months it has the potential to change, but every six months, I get busier rather than less busy - so I'm not expecting to return! Thanks for you kind words, and for taking the time. Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• All the best from me as well WTT; you're a good'un and I'm (selfishly) sad to see you go. Best to you wherever life takes you.-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 00:37, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  Ponyo It's a been a pleasure, and I've enjoyed working with you too. Thanks for taking the time to leave a note, which I really do appreciate Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• I'll miss you, friend. Best to you and the family. And if you ever get over the pond, you know where to find me. :-) Katie^talk 03:18, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  Katie, there are few wikipedians I've actually met, and it was an absolute pleasure to meet you. Still one of my favourite arbs to have worked with, best you and yours too. Maybe one day I'll end up as a digital nomad and I'll pop by! Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks for everything Dave. Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 04:03, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  Moneytrees, I know how much those four words mean. You are welcome, and I'm very proud of the wikipedian you have become. Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Echoing those above, this feels like the end of an era, but best of luck with whatever's next. – Joe (talk) 14:33, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  Joe, thanks for popping by, I do appreciate it. I enjoyed our time together on Arbcom, and I do wish you all the best for the future. Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• I'll miss seeing your name around, but best wishes for what's next! ~ Amory (u • t • c) 16:19, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  Amory, thanks for popping by, though I'm sure we both have to acknowledge my name was popping up less and less frequently! I do appreciate the kind words though. Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Hope to see you around sometime. Take care. Alanscottwalker (talk) 21:31, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  Alanscottwalker I'll never say never, but I'll also make no guarantees. Best of luck for the future. Worm^TT(talk) 09:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Sorry to see you go, hope you eventually return. But for now, thank you from me too, and I hope your pursuits elsewhere are rewarding. Yngvadottir (talk) 23:23, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  Yngvadottir, rewarding certainly. Happily at a place in my life that I can choose what I do. Thank you for taking the time to pop by and for the kind comments. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Hi Dave, Have a good break away from the place and hope to see you back sometime. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 17:56, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you SchroCat, I do appreciate it. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• I remember some very kind things you've said to me over the years, too. You are one of the greats around here, and you will be missed. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:03, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

  Tryptofish I'm constantly amazed at how many people I respect think of me in such ways, and really do appreciate the time you've taken to say so. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

You too, thanks for the time on Wikipedia as a Arbitration Committee and helping the Wikipedia for several years. Enjoy your time-off wiki and finding a new career! 76.20.110.116 (talk) 01:14, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Not quite a new career, I'm just too good at what I do ;) But thank you for taking time to pop by. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Godspeed, Dave, I hope we meet again. Bishonen | tålk 22:16, 13 January 2024 (UTC).

  Best wishes for the future to you too, Bish Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC).

• If you stick around long enough you begin to lose people in your life (too many to mention sadly). I often go back in my history in search of some item or conversation I have forgotten and discover your wisdom and guidance. Maybe not directly to me but to some other editor in a time of need. Looking forward to your future visits. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 05:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

  Buster7 despite confusing you with another Buster, I'm glad I've made a difference. Thanks for taking the time to pop by. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Your contributions will be remembered for years to come CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 10:25, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

  CactiStaccingCrane Ha! I doubt that - though I do hope that the changes I've made will help the encyclopedia going forward. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Wishing you fair winds and following seas with a sincere hope that we will see you back one day when you have the time. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

  Ad Orientem Thank you for the kind words, and best wishes to you too. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• As someone else who has seen their time for tasks wane: thank you for all you've done for the project. You're a good worm, even if turned. –xeno^talk 00:56, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

  xeno The amount of times our paths have crossed is significant, and it's wonderful to see how much of a difference you are still making to this day, even if certain other tasks have fallen by the wayside. Good luck for the future. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• So long and thanks for all the fish. · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 18:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

  Pbsouthwood, there's never a time the great Douglas Adams doesn't fit. Don't Panic. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• WTT, I see on the Admin's newsletter that you turned in your mop. I'm so sorry to see you go, you've helped me out so much, especially when I was a new administrator. I hope whatever activities that are filling up your life bring you joy and satisfaction. Please do not hestitate to come back should that urge to edit return. You will be missed! Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

  I am often saddened that certain people have a much more difficult road to adminship than others, and often for unfair reasons. Maybe one day, that will be sorted by the community, maybe not, but if there is a legacy I am proud of, it's enabling some people to be able to make a difference for the future. I like to think you're one of those people, Liz. Best wishes for the future. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• Me too, sorry for us but hoping this augurs good things offwiki for you. Very best wishes, and much gratitude. You’re leaving the project so very much better than you found it. Thank you. Innisfree987 (talk) 01:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you Innisfree987, I really do hope that's true. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

• I'm sorry to see this, but I wish you all the best in your real life endeavors. Take care! ~Awilley (talk) 03:00, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you for taking the time to pop by a leave your kind words, Awilley Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

I really am amazed at the people who've turned out to say goodbye, so many names of people who I've worked with over the years, who've made such a significant difference to the encyclopedia. Thank you all for taking time to say goodbye to an old fogey who's been fairly quiet for a long time, poking behind the scenes. I wish you all the best for the future. Worm^TT(talk) 11:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, thanks for your contributions! 76.20.110.116 (talk) 04:40, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

I've always seen you as an example of the model Wikipedian. I still miss you. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:33, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

RFA2024 update: Discussion-only period now open for review

Hi there! The trial of the RfA discussion-only period passed at WP:RFA2024 has concluded, and after open discussion, the RfC is now considering whether to retain, modify, or discontinue it. You are invited to participate at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase II/Discussion-only period. Cheers, and happy editing! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:38, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin Elections barnstar
	You had proposed this in 2021 and it's happening! After all the time. After the strange closure and its overturning to an only slightly less disappointing result. We finally have an admin election! And candidates that make me happy. Thank you. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 02:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you ToBeFree, but I can't take the credit here - it was definitely a collaborative effort, and the real kudos needs to go to the person who saw the opportunity to push it over the line - Novem Linguae. And I can't even claim credit for the idea, go back Ten years before my proposal, and you'll find discussions that I participated in, and a radical proposal. All I did was put things together in a way that answered the questions I expected to come up.

That said, I'm really pleased to see the elections going on. I'm really pleased to see the number of candidates, with some long standing wikipedians who ought to be admins in the mix. I just hope the rough process is not too unpleasant for them all. Worm^TT(talk) 07:49, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I had no idea about that history! Surturz is still active and now has the same barnstar. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:27, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Haha! WP certainly has a long memory. Thanks for the Barnstar, and I'm glad the community is willing to try something new <3 Thanks to WormTT too for all their service over the years. WormTT has been a diligent voice of calm reason for a long time. --Surturz (talk) 01:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Perms

Hey WTT, I was THRILLED to see that you're standing for the arb committee. Since you're back, and planning to go the RFA route instead, I thought it might be worth asking if there are perms that you'd like? Hey man im josh (talk) 19:13, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Hey man im josh. I can't think of any perms I need immediately, as you say I'm planning to run the gauntlet in a short while and that should cover everything I need. If I change my mind I'll let you know Worm^TT(talk) 19:33, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

…….! Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 19:52, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

If you're back, you might want to update what you wrote at the top of your talk page. Anyways, glad to hear it. :) Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 20:11, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I need to tidy my talk page. I'll be having a go at it in the morning when I'm back at my PC Worm^TT(talk) 20:13, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I'll echo that I am thrilled you are running (both at RfA and at ACE). You probably don't remember it, but you were the first person to comment in the first RfC I wrote. I was very nervous that I had messed something up; WT:RFA is not exactly a small-scale forum. Having someone of your tenure was comforting, and I have not forgotten. Welcome back! HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 00:47, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Adding my enormous pleasure at seeing you back. A ray of light on an otherwise very dark day. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Welcome back, Worm That Turned! For many years, whenever I have seen your signature, it was preceded by wise words. Cullen328 (talk) 04:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Reboot

Kudos for your honour and integrity in volunteering for re-confirmation.

Having started wondering about your account name at the RfA, I looked for a good illustration for the article about the proverb as it needed a suitable lead image. I found this picture in a book of satirical nursery rhymes published in 1883. The worm does not triumph in this but you may still find it amusing.

Andrew🐉(talk) 22:15, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

That's a new one on me @Andrew Davidson - and I'm not sure if I agree with the moral, for you do need to fight against the wrongs of the world - but perhaps choosing one's battles might help them prevail! Worm^TT(talk) 13:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Welcome back, and thank you.

Hello Dave, You probably don't remember me or who I am, so to quickly summarize: I got blocked 4 years ago, and emailed you asking for advice. Your advice was good, but I only took it 3 years later, when I started contributing to Wikimedia commons. Around this time, you started your wikibreak. I continued to edit on commons became a licence reviewer, and got unblocked on en-wiki a few months ago. I just wanted to say thanks for giving me that advice. All the Best -- Chuck ^Talk 18:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Alachuckthebuck. I'm glad to hear it worked out for you - and good luck in your future editing. Worm^TT(talk) 11:40, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I want to become admin

I want to protect my content so please give me adminship Officialhistory601 (talk) 18:28, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

You will want to read through Wikipedia:Guide to requests for adminship. Primefac (talk) 11:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Officialhistory601. I could also refer you to my magic formula to becoming an admin if you really wanted - but I think we need to take a step back. Wikipedia doesn't work by "owning" content, it's freely licences to be modified, deleted or expanded depending on the consensus of the community. You already have more rights on this site than you do on practically any other website in the world - so focus on producing the best content you can and worry about adminship long in the future. Worm^TT(talk) 11:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Dark mode design tokens

Your black signature is invisible in dark mode as someone pointed out in the RfA. FYI, Schwede66 had a similar issue and used design tokens to resolve it. Please see In the dark for details. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I take it my attempt to use shadows hasn't really done the job then. I've switched to about the simplest version of design tokens that I can, to keep the sig length short. How's it look now? Worm^TT(talk) 10:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

That's much better in dark mode, with the "Worm" appearing as bold, italic white on black. The word "talk" is green on black which is not so legible though.

BTW, note that there's a worm emoji now. Let's see what that looks like: 🪱🪱🪱🪱🪱🪱🪱🪱

Andrew🐉(talk) 16:51, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm afraid I'm too oldschool - I don't like the idea of images (even emojis) in sigs at all! Worm^TT(talk) 11:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Your run for admin is the feel-good story Wikipedia needed to see this week

Thanks for choosing this moment. I'm personally grateful qualified former admins are stepping back in take on larger responsibilities. Glad to have trustworthy (and seasoned) teammates everywhere on Wikimedia, especially on the committee. BusterD (talk) 13:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

That's very kind of you to say @BusterD. The world is a tough place at the moment, and perhaps recent events have exacerbated that - but there is always another dawn, and so we should presever through the night.

Worm^TT(talk) 13:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

	The axe of responsibility
	Shiny new tools might be used to mete out justice, mercy or a dose of reality. Let us commit to not losing our cool when using them. Our only armor is the entire community's trust. We wear it for each other, each new contributor, and each new generation to come. May you ever be the community's champion. BusterD (talk) 15:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC) (UTC)

RFA closed

I have closed the RFA, welcome back to the corps (and good luck in ACE!). Primefac (talk) 11:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Primefac - no backing out now! Worm^TT(talk) 11:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Welcome back! — xaosflux ^Talk 15:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Worm^TT(talk) 15:24, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

OH, nice,.... so it DID succeed. Glad you got the bit back.

Hopefully it won't be another eight or so years before my next message on your talk page.

You know...although I know of a ton of other Wikipedians and consider them to be "famous" to me, you're the only one I have yet to ever talk to.

Congrats again!

ChrisLeeNeal (talk) 17:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Remember me?

I'm still around, heh. I rarely long in, though. I mainly just read wikipedia....hours a day... ..but I think the last time I logged in, well, was around the time I created this account. I'll never forget, though, I left a comment on your talk page back then too (around 2017) where I was like "hey, I know you... well I don't know know you, but I've read a lot about you for a long time and always considered you one of the best Wikipedians around, etc, etc". Yeah, I basically just gushed for a paragraph or two. You replied back, though! On your page, not mine, so it may be hard to find if you need to "reboot" your memory into our interaction/who I am.....but yeah. I think I recently just saw a RFA going on for you? I was tempted to log in and vote my support, but...well, how much weight would my vote hold? Having nothing but namespace edits my entire time here? ACTUALLY, I DO do a lot of minor edits (WikiGnome-style), but I do pretty much 100 of them as an UNSIGNED IN USER. :p So.. I'm resorted to an IP number for most of them, ya know...aka, anonymous. Oh well, I don't need credit for my minor clean up bits. I think virtually all of my edits in my 14 years of being here (I had an account before this one too, name of IDLE THOUGHTS, made about 2004,..that I forgot the password to)... I've ONLY ever made edits in which I "clicked" the "this is a minor edit" box, haha......bold I am not, trust me. :p

Anyways, hope you have been good, hope ya remember me, and hope you keep on keeping on a good life!

ChrisLeeNeal (talk) 17:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

For ease of access, the conversation referenced above is here. Useight (talk) 17:51, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

You are one of my new heroes. Thank you! ChrisLeeNeal (talk) 18:21, 18 November 2024 (UTC)