Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Erik9bot 12

The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. The result of the discussion was

Withdrawn by operator.

Erik9bot 12

Operator: Erik9 (talk)

Automatic or Manually Assisted: Manually started, performs edits automatically.

Programming Language(s): Uses AWB with autosave function

Function Overview: Categorization of articles which contain images without alternative text.

Edit period(s): continuous, as needed

Already has a bot flag (Y/N): Y

All articles which contain one or more images for which alternative text is not specified using the "alt=" parameter would be categorized in Unclassified articles missing image alternate text through the use of Template:Alt text missing. To avoid producing excessive server load, the initial identification of articles would be performed via offline processing of a database dump using AWB's database scanner function.

Discussion

Having originally suggested this I obviously support the proposal (although I have no idea about technical issues such as server load). Wikipedia:Alternative text for images is about making wikipedia content more accessible to those with visual impairments and others. I suspect there are hundreds of thousands (or millions) of articles with images which do not have alt= attached. To handle this manually by adding Template:Alt text missing would take forever. Once tagged they then appear in Category:Unclassified articles missing image alternate text. If the article is also tagged by a wikiproject this should enable them to be included in project cleanup lists and may encourage editors to add alt text to images in areas in which they have an interest/expertise.— Rod ^talk 18:51, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think we really need the number of articles that are to be edited. Can you run the scan soonish? Thanks, - Jarry1250 ^{[ In the UK? Sign the petition! ]} 19:10, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's my understanding that most images in Wikipedia articles do not have the alt= parameter, and that most articles with images would be edited -- at least somewhere around 500,000 articles. Erik9 (talk) 04:23, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I can, of course, supply a more precise figure, based on the Sept 2, 2009 database dump, in a day or two. Unless there's some way to use AWB regexps to specify text not present in a specific context, then the database scan will technically be an undercount, containing only articles in which no image has an alt= parameter. An actual AWB run allows context-specific negation through operations impermissible in the database scanner, such as successive replacement rules -- in preparation for an actual run, the database scanner would be used to create a list of all articles with images. Erik9 (talk) 05:16, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Needs wider discussion. Bot-tagging "hundreds of thousands (or millions) of articles" is something that needs a very strong community consensus. If you don't already have that, please post this to WP:VPR, Template:Cent, and anyplace else you can think of to get as wide a community consensus as possible. Anomie ⚔ 03:45, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I will post the appropriate notices. However, it's important to emphasize that Template:Alt text missing is invisible; the only effect of adding it to articles will be to categorize them in Unclassified articles missing image alternate text, which is itself a hidden category. Erik9 (talk) 04:25, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Whether or not the template is visible is not the only potential issue. Anomie ⚔ 14:11, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done [1] [2]. Erik9 (talk) 04:35, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see the value in categorizing such a large number of pages, since it wouldn't really be realistic to clear out (even less so than the other gigantic cleanup categories). I think a better approach would be to have a community-wide notice that links to a page that explains the alt= feature and other accessibility recommendations. — RockMFR 05:32, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm assuming, based on the fact that this bot task was requested, that there are editors willing to make a concerted effort to add alt= parameters to images in categorized articles, not merely those images they happen to come across. If so, then we should give such editors a tool to locate articles requiring their attention. Even if the category is never actually emptied, every article that is cleared represents an improvement to the encyclopedia. Erik9 (talk) 06:05, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it would be better to actually make that determination rather than just assuming. Also, if that is your goal here it could be done with less disruption as part of WikiProject Check Wikipedia. Anomie ⚔ 14:11, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most articles do not have alt text, so this category would be useless. People who want to add alt texts have no problem finding articles lacking them. This would be like tagging all short articles for expansion: true but meaningless. Also, I may take some flak for this, but alt text just isn't all that important. The perfect article should have it, but most articles have far more pressing problems. I don't think we should make an effort to make editors who are doing other things switch to writing alt texts. --Apoc2400 (talk) 09:58, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I saw this posted on the Village Pump, so I figured that I should try to provide some input. The idea behind this, addressing alt text for images, is a good idea. My thoughts echo those above though, that simply categorizing articles in this way is not going to be helpful, so my gripe is with the implementation rather then the intent. A real bot task would be to actually add some alt text to images that are completely missing it, in my mind. If an image is completely missing alt text then having a bot add some to it is better then the image not having alt text at all, even if the alt text added by the bot isn't ideal. A possible method to do this would be to look at the actual Image page and pull out the description (if available), then use that as alt text. If a description isn't available then the bot could default to using just the file name. That's not a complete solution to the missing alt text problem, but having some alt text with the image should then prompt actual people to fix it. I can't see anyone complaining about a bot adding alt text where it's completely missing, either.
— V = I * R (talk to Ω) 17:08, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.