Wikipedia

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism

< Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting
(Redirected from Wikipedia:DELJEW)
See also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel
See also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Religion
Shortcuts
Deletion Sorting
Project

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Judaism. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion
Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
  1. Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
  2. You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Judaism|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
Removing a closed AfD discussion
Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
Other types of discussions
You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Judaism. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.
Further information
For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.


Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
Purge page cache watch
Deletion discussions
Articles
Templates and modules
Files
Categories
Redirects
Miscellany
Speedy deletion
Proposed deletion


Judaism topics

edit

The Zionist regime

edit
The Zionist regime (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Basically another name for the already deleted Zionist entity article Abo Yemen✉ 08:21, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of antisemitic incidents in the United States

edit
List of antisemitic incidents in the United States (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Following a disagreement over BLP and NOTNEWS concerns, a large portion of this article was removed and a discussion was had as to what list criteria it should use. After discussing it on the talk page, I do not think this article, or any article attempting to quantify something as broad and vague as "incident" should exist (of which we have at least two others, one about xenophobia in venezuela and a similar one referring to Islamophobic incidents)

The intended scope of the page - any "incident" described as antisemitic by anybody, it seems - is so impossibly broad as to be unencyclopedic. There are tens of thousands of antisemitic incidents in the US that have been reported in the news. Perhaps hundreds of thousands. We cannot list everything ever described as antisemitic by anyone. Further, a lot of the sources used to classify antisemitic incidents have come under fire lately for classifying more disputed ones related to Palestine as antisemitic, when these are not agreed upon. I don't think the NOTNEWS is as big of an issue as the list does not inherently have to abide by that, but the massive scope of this is an issue plus the BLP concerns that come with listing someone's actions here not on the base of any criminal conviction but on the strength of anyone calling it that.

If we limit it to just incidents with articles, as is sometimes done when dealing with articles with particularly broad scopes, we are left with just a handful of incidents, some of which are themselves non notable, the other of which are antisemitic terrorist attacks/shootings, which is notable, but these are listed on another page so reducing it to that would make it just a worse duplicate. The ones that have their own pages, are notable, and are not duplicated on another page number less than five. Hence I would argue delete, but in any case even if not deleted something must be done about the scope. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:58, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep encyclopedic list and notable incidents by and large. Meets WP:NLIST, oppose change to scope. Andre🚐 22:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It is not encyclopedic to list every single thing that has ever happened in a country with 300+ million people that someone has called antisemitic. Also BLP concerns. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:03, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think you have misinterpreted Mr. Andrevan’s point. Steven1991 (talk) 22:10, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think so. Only a few of them have a page, so they are not mostly notable incidents. And most are so small scale as to be unencyclopedic. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:11, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Read NLIST, it doesn't require that. Andre🚐 22:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Read the guidance on selection criteria for lists.
    • Selection criteria (also known as inclusion criteria or membership criteria) should be unambiguous, objective, and supported by reliable sources. - this is not
    • As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a directory, repository of links, or means of promotion, and should not contain indiscriminate lists, only certain types of lists should be exhaustive.
    • Criteria for inclusion should factor in encyclopedic and topical relevance, not just verifiable existence.
    This current article's scope has more potential entries than is encyclopedic.
    PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:15, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I would see the current article is unambiguous, objective, and supported by reliable sources. If not, please explain why not. editors may, at their discretion, choose to limit large lists by only including entries for independently notable items emphasis mine. I also don't see how the list is an indiscriminate one, it's limited to incidents described as antisemitic. They're also topically relevant. Andre🚐 22:20, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What organization objectively defines antisemitism? People have many varying definitions of it. An article mostly made up of incidents of NOTNEWS crimes like vandalism and assault is not encyclopedic. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:22, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    An organization doesn't need to define it, what matters is do the RS describe it that way, absent any meaningful contradiction. NOTNEWS is an altogether different argument than NLIST. For example, we could adopt a time moratorium to avoid RECENTISM and say that new entries need to have at least 14 days before being added. That's not an AFD argument against notability, that's a content discussion at editors' discretion regarding the WP:LISTCRITERIA. Remember that is about WP:V. However, crimes and vandalism and assault aren't always covered in RS and they aren't always described as antisemitic, that is why the criteria here aren't indiscriminate. So long as we apply those criteria rigorously, we are being neither arbitrary nor capricious in doing so, and proportionate with our weight. If the President describes it as antisemitic that's a pretty huge pointer it belongs here. If it's just in the police blotter and not really a national story or discussed in any reasonable depth other than a passing mention, maybe we leave it out. However, we don't definitely need to leave it out. And I'm not sure I fully understand your rationale to delete this article or leave most entries off the list. Andre🚐 22:51, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't get what you're not getting about the problems here. I doubt this will be deleted in any case, but the entire concept of this list is based on a definition with an intersection with an incredibly controversial geopolitical conflict, were this list anywhere close to comprehensive it would be completely unmaintainable, and it is not encyclopedic to list tons of individual briefly covered cases accusing people of committing crimes with no follow up - many of whom were never convicted, so there is a massive BLP issue here. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don’t get how it is “controversial”. If a Jewish person is assaulted by someone calling them names or being hurled insults consisting of traditional tropes about Jews, or have their properties vandalised with any offensive symbols or slogans, I don’t see how it is tied to any geopolitical conflict, unless there is an assumption that random Jewish persons in the U.S. alike are responsible for it, which shouldn’t be the case. So, I don’t get where the “controversy” comes from. Steven1991 (talk) 23:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Steven1991 Is saying Israel should not exist antisemitic? Is a Jew getting assaulted for reasons other than being a Jew antisemitic (this page includes several incidents where the motive is not clear, but someone called it antisemitic)? Is saying Israel does not have a right to a Jewish state antisemitic? Do we use the IHRA definition? If not, what do we use? Is comparing Israel to Nazi Germany antisemitic (IHRA says it is, many self-called human rights activists compare them all the time)? I don't know, but the definition of antisemitism is extremely controversial, yes, see the whole fight we had about the ADL and the definition they use. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:05, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:BLPCRIME here isn't relevant because antisemitism is not equal to being found guilty of a hate crime. The former is more of a "thought crime." Those aren't chargeable. If they were found guilty of a hate crime then that's good proof of the guilt of that view, but BLPCRIME doesn't mean that we can't list an ideological position. BLPCRIME is about crimes. So long as we don't accidentally claim guilt of hate crimes where one didn't occur, antisemitic isn't a crime. Andre🚐 23:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Some of the people here were not found guilty of any crime, hence the BLPCRIME concern. BLP proper is also an issue because antisemitism is a negative allegation so adding someone to this list on the strength of a few breaking news sources and then the topic never gets mentioned again is bad. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:24, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The scope of this page requires merely that anyone have called something someone did antisemitic, whether that be a politician, without criminal conviction or widespread agreement. That is bad and has BLP issues. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:20, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It doesn’t appear to be the case if you look at the most recent version, which basically include only the most serious-natured ones. Steven1991 (talk) 23:11, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree. One off assaults are a very common crime. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP as per Mr. Andrevan’s viewpoint. As long as the incidents are historically well known/covered by multiple reliable sources/widely condemned by government agencies and/or NGOs, which would fit the notability test (I am not too familiar), I don’t see how it shouldn’t be there, or we would have crowd a significant amount of content covering those notable incident in related articles, which would in turn cause other issues. Steven1991 (talk) 22:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Steven1991 If we cut this down to historically well known incidents that would be 95% of it gone - most of which is duplicated on another page.
Most of this content should not be on any page. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Steven, if this is a keep make sure you add Keep to the beginning with bold. Andre🚐 22:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So far, I haven’t added anything more to the article. I am waiting out to see how things go. Steven1991 (talk) 20:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please kindly remove the bold from your mention of Keep, as it is visually misleading. Thanks.@Andrevan -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 15:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. Andre🚐 18:07, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep - I originally suggested deletion when this was a giant WP:DB, but have changed my mind after thinking about it a bit. The list could be filtered more, and I do wonder about BLP violation.
I think main question to ask is about WP:NLIST: Notability of lists (whether titled as "List of Xs" or "Xs") is based on the group. One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; and other guidelines on appropriate stand-alone lists
Antisemitic incidents is definitely notable as a group. WP:SALAT also indicates that the grouping should not be so broad as to be useless. I am still not quite sure about a list of antisemitic incidents, but filtering it to only the United States seems to limit its scope a bit more. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 22:07, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bluethricecreamman My question is, when people discuss them as a list or set, do they list them? In which case, do we have any examples of this so we can see what they list? And on what basis will we filter it that will not make it tens of thousands of items long? PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:08, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ah well, I have no opinion then, and will strike out my vote for now. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 22:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bluethricecreamman "but filtering it to only the United States seems to limit its scope a bit more." this is something I was thinking would be more applicable too given the nature of it by the issue there is how these definitions get extremely muddy when considering different countries and especially legal systems. It'd be a very busy talk page.
A timeline of antisemitism in the US would probably make more sense for the context of the events that would be listed there but would also be a very different page. Galdrack (talk) 20:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Rescope - The current scope of the article is too broad as there is no definitive way of deciding what constitutes an "antisemitic incident". The list currently contains a mix of confirmed hate-crimes, incidents disputed due to them involving Israel, & incidents that are assumed antisemitic because it happened to someone Jewish. Many incidents are also just, not notable, only reported on by local news & no follow-up.
If this article is going to continue to exist in some form, I want some sort of objective benchmark for inclusion. I've already given my proposal on the talk page, to only include incidents directly confirmed as hate crimes + historical incidents universally considered antisemitic. Otherwise the list will become an arbitrary compilation of incidents someone says may be antisemitic & will lead to prolonged arguments for/against inclusion.
I would also like to note that the creator of this article, Loksmythe was blocked as a sockpuppet. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 22:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Rescoping is needed, unfortunately. I am happy to come up with some suggestions on what incidents should be included within two hours. Steven1991 (talk) 23:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment RESCOPE - I think there is merit in having some sort of article on antisemitism in the United States but this article is overly broad. It would make more sense to limit it to incidents that are notable enough to merit their own Wikipedia article, otherwise we will end up with a list of thousands of incidents. We don't have List of racist incidents in the United States or List of sexist incidents for similar reasons. Wellington Bay (talk) 23:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We do have Antisemitism in the United States and History of antisemitism in the United States. -- Cdjp1 (talk) 00:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you are right. Steven1991 (talk) 20:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We also have Timeline of antisemitism in the 21st century, 20th century, 19th century, Timeline of antisemitism Bluethricecreamman (talk) 02:55, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As someone who "uses" WP, I view "List pages" as providing a means to search quickly and efficiently for published articles and linked accordingly. This does not provide such; as it "lists" mini-articles (some of which are not notable enough to have their own articles at WP). There is enough on WP that addresses the topic; either individually or as a general topic. Additionally, each "listing" seems to also welcome quite a lot of challenges and editing not regarding the page or topic itself but the actual individual incidences. Maineartists (talk) 00:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep But it needs a work trimming it down. The incidents that are non-notable should not be included unless someone can demonstrate that the specific non-notable incidents themselves are notable as a specific gruop.. However, I find the "but an exhaustive list would be massive" argument to be uncompelling. There's nothing indicating it must be an exhaustive list of anything that fits the list rather than notable things only; we're not bothered that Deaths in January 2024 or List of physicians don't contain millions of people because we only list the notable ones. Similarly, I also don't find "but we'll have to define ourself what an anti-semitic incident is" to be convincing at all, either; the sources would do that, and weighing how the reliable sources consider the subject of an article is something we do in basically every article already.
CoffeeCrumbs (talk) 01:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Problem with that is that there are very, very few incidents on this list that are notable. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You've now responded to every keep. Please don't repeat yourself or respond to everyone. Andre🚐 02:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have made a proposition on the article’s Talk page for the rescoping of the article with regard to the incident inclusion criteria. Feel free to have a look or join the discussion. Steven1991 (talk) 03:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I was initially going to add "Strong Rescope" to my position but I think Wellington raises a very solid point, that there isn't a "list of racist incidents in the US" article, and I'm no longer in favor of keeping this article. Given that there are only 2 other lists similar to this one; that there are other pages on Wikipedia dealing with this topic, specifically other articles about antisemitism, antisemitism in the US, specific antisemitic incidents, etc; that there is no agreement on what constitutes "antisemitism", including an editor believing the article falls under WP:PIA; that there has been impasse and a lot of contentious back and forth about individual incidents, including edit war around keeping and removing individual incidents instead of meaningful improvements to the article; that there seems to be fundamental disagreement about the criteria by which incidents are able to be listed; that there so far has been impasse at a consensus regarding rescoping and one does not seem forthcoming -- it seems some do not want to concede to the article only including incidents with their own article, and general disagreement about what constitutes a noteworthy incident in general --, I am not in favor of keeping this article and I believe it should be deleted.
I hope it's okay to re post something from PARAKANYAA from the talk page that I think summarizes the problems with this article nicely,
My problem with this list is that the scope is so broad that it is a nightmare. An "incident". This is as opposed to terrorist attacks or violent hate crimes, which tend to be far more notable as events and have less of the same concerns - which we have a separate list for. We only have two other pages like this (the Venezuela and Islamophobia ones). Maybe we should delete all three of them. Making this article even close to comprehensive would be massively, massively oversized, and have NOTNEWS and BLP issues. So as is it's just an arbitrary collection of recent news. To attempt to list every single thing ever called an antisemitic incident by the news or another commentator would be utterly unencyclopedic. I don't think we should have any pages like this. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:34, 18 October 2024 (UTC) Wikipedious1 (talk) 05:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but with a definition as to what qualifies for inclusion and a wider scope.Knitsey (talk) 14:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, initially I'd suggest Rescope since there was none to begin with really but the consistent editing of the page due to lack of a clear scope has lead to such a vague and broad array of events it's partially hard to take seriously in an encyclopedia as opposed to a news feed online. I feel like such a list would be useful and can be made but given the nature of the topic clarifying and agreeing to a scope for the topic would be extremely difficult to maintain and largely the noteworthy events will be listed in related articles already in better detail. Galdrack (talk) 20:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and restrict the list to incidents that are the subjects of Wikipedia articles and that are described by reliable sources as anti-semitic incidents. Cullen328 (talk) 06:43, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep, and probably rescope per Cullen328. Generally long lists are fine (CoffeeCrumbs gave some examples) and some ambiguity is normal. But the combination of the two can be problematic, resulting in a laundry list which is difficult to trim due to ambiguity. Incidents with articles might arguably be too narrow, but it's appealing to have such a brightline which would remove a lot of the ambiguity. In any case, it should probably be kept since it meets WP:NLIST. — xDanielx T/C\R 23:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of the Jews in Botswana

edit
History of the Jews in Botswana (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Extremely small minority with little significance, nearly half the article is about Botswana's relations with Israel because of how little coverage there is of the 21 members of this community. If this qualifies as notable you could make thousands of X ethnicity in Y country articles. Gazingo (talk) 15:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There could be 10 people or 5 people in this community and it wouldn't matter as long as reliable sources existed. The current size of the community is irrelevant. Jewish communities are almost always small in most countries. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 12:48, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The only sources in the article are Jewish websites with articles for "Jews in X country" for every country. Are there any sources about Botswana Jews specifically outside of the context of listing facts about the Jewish communities in every country? Gazingo (talk) 15:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Is Andre's source enough to keep this? Are there more?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 19:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of the Jews in Cambodia

edit
History of the Jews in Cambodia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Extremely small minority with little coverage, the article is largely about individual people in Cambodia who are Jewish with little suggestion of an actual community. If this is notable you could make thousands of articles about every ethnic group in every country. Gazingo (talk) 15:25, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Can we get some more discussion on the proposed merge as an ATD?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 19:09, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep for better or worse, this IS the history of the Jews in Cambodia. The article has WP:RS and it is WP:V as well as WP:N. Smallness of size is not a "sin" when it comes to the Jewish People as they are a small sized nationality out of the world's billions of people. IZAK (talk) 22:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: I have posted the following on the nominator's talk page: Hi, and welcome to WP. I have spent over twenty years gathering material to build up a comprehensive history of the Jews in all of the world's countries, see Category:Jewish history by country. Some countries are large and some are small. Some Jewish communities are likewise small or large or old and new, but still they are part of the Jewish history of those countries and of Jewish history and the Jews in general. See my response to your nomination at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of the Jews in Cambodia: Your premise about the history of the Jews in any country, i.e. Jewish history, is wrong because Jews are ALWAYS a tiny minority compared to surrounding populations. For example, in the world today there are about seven billion people while there are only about 15 million Jews on planet Earth. Yet Jews are to be found everywhere and they always make WP:N contributions to their host nations regardless if they arrived there fifty years ago or five hundred years ago and regardless if they amount to 500 people or 500,000 people. Please note WP:DONOTDEMOLISH! Therefore, kindly withdraw your nomination because it interferes with the goal of building a comprehensive history of the Jews in all countries and nations on WP, no matter how large or small those Jewish communities are they are all part of the Jewish People who are a tiny, yet very much WP:N nationality and religious group in the world both historically and in the present! Thank you for your understanding! IZAK (talk) 23:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Miscellany for deletion

edit

Proposed deletion

edit

Redirects for deletion

edit

Deletion review

edit

Templates

edit

Categories

edit

CfD

edit

CfD

edit

Merge

edit

CfD

edit

Requested moves

edit

Images

edit

Miscellaneous

edit
  1. ^ Makgala, Christian John (2006). "Bid to Settle Jewish Refugees from Nazi-Germany in Botswana, 1938-1939". Botswana Notes and Records. 38: 20–32. ISSN 0525-5090.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Judaism&oldid=1252372685"