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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/MLS Cup 2019/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 19 October 2023 [1].

MLS Cup 2019

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Nominator(s): SounderBruce 05:53, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article covers the second (and most recent) MLS Cup to be won by my favorite team, Seattle Sounders FC. Played in front of a raucous crowd of over 69,000 fans and 2 seismographs in Seattle, the Sounders won 3–1 in the decider of a trilogy with Toronto FC, who they beat in 2016 and lost to in 2017. I watched from afar in Boston, where I was seriously considering an early return flight to go see the match. This article was promoted to GA status in 2020 and has since undergone some expansion and a GOCE copyedit; I feel it's of the same quality as my other two MLS Cup FAs. SounderBruce 05:53, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review
  • File:King County Metro trolleybus 4314 with MLS Cup advertisement.jpg — I'm not sure about this, the advertisement is above the threshold of originality and since it is clearly a major focus of the image, you can't claim de minimis.
    • Removed to stay safe.
  • File:Seattle Sounders FC vs Toronto FC 2019-11-10.svg Needs a source for the lineup in the image description (t · c) buidhe 14:23, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport from Chris

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  • Putting a marker down. I aim to review this later today....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:55, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The match marked the conclusion of the 2019 MLS Cup Playoffs, which was contested" - this may be a UK/US English difference, but surely "play-offs" is a plural noun.....?
    • As a single event, it's not considered a plural noun.
  • Wikilink soccer on first use in the body as well as in the lead
    • Linked.
  • "organized into the eastern and western conferences" - capitals on Conference names.......?
    • Capitalized; the anti-caps corps have been targeting articles as of late.
  • Wikilink goal differential
    • Linked.
  • "with goals on transitions by Ruidíaz and Lodeiro to close out the first half" - not sure what this means. Were they the players who scored the goals? Or did they just set them up, in which case who scored them?
    • Fixed order.
  • Pozuelo image caption needs a full stop
    • Added.
  • I think the Summary of results table fails MOS:COLOR, as you are using just colours to indicate something. You need to use symbols too.
    • There doesn't seem to be a way to display symbols for each team in the module. Since changes would require changes to more than just a few articles, I think it's best to have a project discussion at WT:FOOTY.
    • Figured out how to add custom text, but it's a bit overwhelming. I think a project discussion would be needed at some point.
  • "The MLS Cup trophy was also taken on a tour of the city, arriving aboard a state ferry and sent to the Space Needle" => "The MLS Cup trophy was also taken on a tour of the city, arriving aboard a state ferry and being sent to the Space Needle"
    • Fixed.
  • "The national anthem"- the US one, presumably?
    • Seems to be so. Sometimes the Canadian anthem is also played for MLS matches between teams from both countries.
  • Tifo is linked in the caption of the image in the Match section, but it's also in an earlier caption so should probably be linked there instead
    • Fixed.
  • "protested that the goal was preceded by a foul on Jonathan Osori" - as he's already been mentioned, just use his surname here
    • Fixed.
  • "Jozy Altidore earned a consolation goal" - here too
    • Fixed.
  • That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:17, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment

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Three weeks in and just the single general support. Unless this nomination makes significant further progress towards a consensus to promote over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:32, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Thebiguglyalien

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I'll have a review posted within the next few days. I don't know much about the subject, so I'll be reviewing from that perspective. In the meantime, I have an open FAC that's also looking for reviewers if you're interested. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 01:43, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

General notes:

  • There appears to be enough analytic content in some of the news coverage to make them high quality sources. It's not to the point where I'm going to count it against the review, but just a few general comments based on the types of sources: be careful about using too many non-independent sources, and be careful not to extrapolate anything from news reports that are essentially "this happened today". The advice at WP:PRIMARY is relevant here.
    • Just to clarify, MLSsoccer.com's editorial content is not explicitly controlled by the league, and they are often the best reliable source for a lot of statistical analysis. I've used them somewhat sparingly to only cite obvious facts, though.
  • There were a few unnecessary commas that treated dependent clauses as independent clauses. I've removed them.
    • Thanks for catching those.
  • Be consistent when referring to the teams. Alternating between "Seattle" and "The Sounders" introduces unnecessary complication.
    • Alternating is standard practice in sports articles (and mirrors what sources do), since it breaks up the monotony of a section. Since both Seattle and Sounders are part of the club's official name and are both common ways to refer to the team in the context of a match, I don't see this as a major issue.
  • Is the position of each player relevant to the match? If it is, it might be helpful to indicate what it is when a player is first mentioned. It shouldn't be assumed that the reader is familiar with every player.
    • I typically use positions for when it is most relevant, namely trades and other acquisitions. Since soccer is a sport where most outfield positions can score, it would clutter the section to add each position for every goalscorer.
  • Is there any reason why MLS Cup 2019 and 2019 MLS Cup Playoffs are two different articles?

Lead:

  • "and the first to be hosted by the Sounders" – This makes it sound like this was the first ever game to be hosted by the Sounders.
    • Fixed.

Road to the final:

  • "Road to the final" seems very informal rather than using encyclopedic wording.
  • "The playoffs ... was" – Singular/plural
    • Fixed.
  • "the higher-seeded team" – Is this a term/concept that a casual fan can be expected to know? Would Seed (sports) be the appropriate link?
    • Added a link; it is a common term.
  • "The shortened playoff schedule" – This should make it clearer that the change in the elimination method is what caused the shortened schedule.
    • Added.
  • "manager Brian Schmetzer" – MOS:SEAOFBLUE
    • Fixed.
  • Is "berth" a term widely known by casual fans? Is there a Wikipedia article with more context?
    • It is a common term and doesn't need to be
  • "Ruidíaz added a second goal for himself" – Is this a common wording for scoring? I'm picturing him sneaking over to a scoreboard and giving himself an extra point.
    • If only it was that easy. I trimmed that section down.
  • "provided additional depth to improve the team's defense" – This seems vague
    • Removed "improve".

Venue and preparations:

  • "Prices for tickets on secondary markets peaked at an average of $622" – This doesn't mean much without the original price for context.
    • There doesn't seem to be a source for the average price of a normal ticket, nor the original price offered for the match.
  • "Sound Transit ran special several Sounder commuter train trips" – Is there a missing word here?
    • Fixed.

Broadcasting:

  • Is there no information about TVA Sports and ESPN International viewership stats?
    • Those were not released and are unlikely to be found in reliable sources.

Match: No notes

Post-match: No notes

That should be everything. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:39, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Thebiguglyalien: Thanks for picking this one up for review. I've replied to your comments. SounderBruce 22:38, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm satisfied by the changes/explanations and support promotion. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 01:45, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – pass

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Spot-checks not included.

  • Source 1 says for me that it was posted on 11 November rather than 10 November. Maybe it's based on the time zone of the country one lives in?
  • Be consistent with linking publishers, works etc. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. For example, Seattle Sounders FC in source 1 is not linked but The Washington Post in source 2 is not.
  • The same problem with source 8 regarding the date of the posting. Please check if it says 30 October for you (as in the article) instead of 31 October, which is the case for me.
  • The New York Times sources should be marked with a |url-access=limited parameter.
  • Be consistent with including the publisher of works. In most cases, you do this but not in places like source 49 (missing Guardian Media Group) FrB.TG (talk) 09:34, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Harrias

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  • The weather doesn't need a citation in the infobox, as it is already provided in the main body.
    • Removed.
  • "MLS Cup 2019 was the 24th edition of the MLS Cup, the championship match of Major League Soccer (MLS) and took place.." Needs a comma before "and took" to close off the clause.
    • Fixed.
  • Don't capitalise "Semifinals" in the "Road to the Final" section. (For the same reason we no longer capitalise final in 2022 FIFA World Cup final etc. Same with "Canadian Championship Final", "Western Conference Final", "Eastern Conference Final"
    • As these are proper names for the rounds, they should be capitalized; this is also the norm for American sports playoffs, which also capitalize their round names when they include conferences and divisions (e.g. MLB and NBA).
  • "..with the Sounders winning." Avoid the noun plus -ing construction.
    • Fixed.
  • "..and the team prevented involvement from LAFC captain and MLS scoring leader Carlos Vela.." I find this wording quite odd, I'd suggest rephrasing. At the moment it sounds more like they found a technicality to stop him from playing in the match.
    • Fixed with some punctuation.
  • I'd recommend wikilinking "General manager" on first usage, as non-North American readers won't necessarily understand the relevance of the role.
    • Fixed and added a little filler to avoid a SEAOFBLUE situation.
  • "..off a failed header from.." What is a failed header? Did he miss the header, or was it a misplayed header?
    • Fixed.
  • I don't think you explicitly state why Seattle got to host the match; this would be worth clarifying.
    • Added to the Venue section.
  • "..with the Sounders entering.." Again, avoid the noun plus -ing construction.
    • Fixed.
  • "The match was broadcast in the United States in English on ABC for the first time since 2008.." The way this is phrased makes it sound like between 2008 and 2019 it had been broadcast on ABC in another language. Suggest rephrasing.
    • Fixed.
  • "..with Seattle starting Román Torres in place of Xavier Arreaga and Toronto replacing.." Again, avoid the noun plus -ing construction.
    • Fixed.
  • "..but his shot did not pass goalkeeper Quentin Westberg." Why not? Did it roll to a halt in front of him? Make it clear Westberg saved the shot.
    • Fixed.
  • "The Sounders were able to disrupt Toronto's attacks with runs on.." What are "runs on"?
    • A bit of text was deleted in some earlier edits; replaced with something from the source.
  • "..with the Sounders finding.." Again, avoid the noun plus -ing construction.
    • Fixed.
  • Portland Timbers is linked twice in the "Road to the final" section.
    • Fixed.
  • Nick DeLeon is linked twice in the "Road to the final" section.
    • Fixed.
  • Be consistent in how you refer to Columbus Crew SC; first use has "the Columbus Crew SC", while second use omits the "the".
    • Fixed.

Overall a nice article, with just some copyedits to fix really. Good work. Harrias (he/him) • talk 09:15, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Harrias: Thanks for taking the time to review this article. I've addressed your comments above and made all the necessary changes. Next time I promise to not overlook the overused noun plus -ings, ha. SounderBruce 07:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Happy with the changes, an excellent article. Harrias (he/him) • talk 08:14, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comments

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  • "All four of the goals were scored in the second half, beginning with a deflected shot by Kelvin Leerdam and followed by strikes from substitute Víctor Rodríguez (later named the match MVP) and Raúl Ruidíaz. Jozy Altidore scored a late consolation goal for Toronto in stoppage time." It is not until the end of this that it is implied, but not stated, that the first three goals were scored by Seattle.
  • "2019 MLS Cup Playoffs". Why the upper-case P?

Gog the Mild (talk) 15:34, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: Cleaned up that sentence to make it clear the Sounders scored three unanswered goals first. The capitalization of "Playoffs" is due to its nature as a proper name for the tournament; secondary sources aren't totally consistent on whether or not to capitalize it, but the league website (which has some level of editorial independence) does. SounderBruce 17:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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