Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of deaths at the Berlin Wall/archive1

Notified: WP:WikiProject Military history, WP:WikiProject Germany

There are significant citation issues here, including one section that's been tagged for citations since 2018. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The tagged "historical background" section wasn't in the original promoted FL. Nothing it says looks that controversial, but I think I'd be fine with expecting people to read the main Berlin Wall article first if they need background. I've chopped it down and added a basic ref (although not one that covers some of the minor details, but eh, it's probably in one of the longer works exclusively on the Berlin Wall). That said, as a procedural side note. Tastes differ and there will always be borderline tough calls... but... honestly this seems more like an article than a list anyway? Page size reports ~5,700 prose words ignoring the list itself, which is pretty significant and probably longer than the "main" list. This seems more like an article with an attached list than a list with some prose explanation, so possible it should be demoted on those grounds and moved to Deaths at the Berlin Wall or the like. SnowFire (talk) 10:32, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Remove seeing no other edits. Not convinced the prose / referencing of the larger article is up to FA snuff. Also, the URLs have moved to the memorial website (e.g. https://www.stiftung-berliner-mauer.de/de/gedenkstaette-berliner-mauer/historischer-ort/bernauer-strasse ), so it'd be cool if rather than relying on Wayback copies, they were updated, but more of a nice-to-have. (Also, some parts of the table are questionable IMO... why is the person's birthdate & age relevant? But I'm a "less is more" type.) SnowFire (talk) 03:21, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Thebiguglyalien, did you notify the relevant editors and WikiProjects? If so, please add that to the nomination. If not, please do so. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Thebiguglyalien, did you happen to notify any WikiProjects about this? If not, we should do so before moving forward with delisting. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:49, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did not. I wanted to bring attention to this, I'm not particularly sure how you guys like to go about it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:57, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thebiguglyalien: I've notified WP Germany and MILHIST. In the future, this can be done with Template:FLRCMessage. I'll be giving this a bit more time since no wiki projects were notified, and I hadn't actually responded to you (sorry about that). Hey man im josh (talk) 16:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I agree with SnowFire that this probably shouldn't be considered a list. This is a 5,600 word article complemented by a list. The redirect Deaths at the Berlin Wall seems far more appropriate. Considering the extent of the prose in the article it's very surprising that there are still citations in the lede. I have not read through this article in detail because with only a brief skim I've added twelve cn tags. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 16:57, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would we consider reverting the article back to its FLC state (or a similar revision) and splitting much of its newer prose content to a new article? "Deaths at the Berlin Wall", suggested above, seems appropriate. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 17:18, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If this is trying to be an article rather than a list, I'd like to see some context/comparison with other causes of border deaths—for example, the Berlin Wall is often compared to the Mediterranean in terms of border deaths. (t · c) buidhe 14:09, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

By all means @Pickersgill-Cunliffe, The ed17, and Buidhe, if you want to split the article and take it in another direction, or you believe it's not necessarily suited to be a list, we can move forward with a split or delisting (if concerns go unaddressed). Hey man im josh (talk) 14:11, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I have no skin in this game, but my question there was intended to provide a path where this would maintain FL status without losing the potentially useful content that's been added over the years. :-) Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 15:39, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]