Wikipedia:Featured sound candidates/October 2008

Please cut and paste new entries to the bottom of this page, creating a new monthly archive (by closing date) when necessary.

  • For promoted entries, add '''Promoted Example.ogg''' --~~~~ to the bottom of the entry, replacing Example.ogg with the file that was promoted.
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  • For entries demoted, add '''Demoted Example.ogg''' --~~~~ to the bottom of the entry.

Use variants as appropriate, e.g. with a large set of files, all of which pass, '''Promoted all''' is fine, but if one of them didn't pass for some reason, make sure that's clear.

Irving Berlin is an important enough songwriter to deserve a place among our featured sounds. The challenge is to find an early composition and a recording under free license. This 1914 song is remembered largely for Judy Garland's performance in the film Easter Parade. The film was made too late for the pre-1923 window, but I was able to locate this 1914 recording from the year the song was first composed and it's good quality for the period. Appears at "I Want to Go Back to Michigan" and at Edison Records. Lyrics available at Wikisource.


Promoted I Want to Go Back to Michigan.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]



A fine recording of plain chant, by the wonderful User:Makemi, whose professional-level a capella recordings grace featured sounds in many places.


Promoted O frondens 2.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Such a major work deserves -even needs a full recording for Wikipedia. This is a professional recording, with the famous and hugely respected Seattle Youth Symphony, which shows off the work to great effect.

Used in The Carnival of the Animals, Seattle Youth Symphony, Camille Saint-Saëns, Vilem Sokol


Promoted Camille Saint-Saëns - The Carnival of the Animals.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:34, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A thoroughly professional recording of a fine, if obscure opera. Lyrics are provided. They translate pretty easily, I'll do that tomorrow.

  • Nominate and support. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 17:51, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Question How do we know this is a 'fine' opera? Has it been performed in the last 100 years? Is there a recording? Has any music survived other than this aria? I've been looking and I can't find anything. --Kleinzach 04:48, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • You're the one who owns Grove and is the head of the Opera project. I'd have thought you had more resources to hand on 17th century (the 18th centuryt starts in 1801) French opera than I did - almost all my sources are on Victorian English opera. I suspect the music does survive - why would one aria alone survive? but suspect it would be far easier to find information in France. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 16:15, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose. Notability not established. --Kleinzach 05:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support If it is notable for the encyclopedia and improves the artilces it is in it is notable enough to be featured. Zginder 2008-09-16T13:03Z (UTC)
  • Oppose. So thus far, there's one functional support, isnt' there. Can we work out how the policy of notability applies to sound files, please? I'm confused. This is a good performance, although it's a pity the clarinet is so closely miked—the chalumeau isn't flattering, and there are a few breathy phrases; odd, since the tone elsewhere is beautiful. If this work was an opera (again, no link), surely this is some strange kind of reduction of the orchestral parts for piano and clarinet; the info page says nothing. Again, we all need to read WP:DASH to get it right for year ranges. Spaced or unspaced? Hyphen or en dash? You tell me. Surely Levine should be linked; and doesn't the composer have a dedicated article? Tony (talk) 06:45, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Good recording, has potential to be used well inside other parts of the project. Xavexgoem (talk) 23:37, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Promoted Pierre Gaveaux - Polacca from the opera Le Trompeur Trompé.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:32, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A particularly fine example of what the oboe is capable of. Very encyclopedic for Oboe, great for Antonio Pasculli and Oboe concerto too.


Promoted Antonio Pasculli - Gran Concerto.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A recording from the Library of Congress music division using period instruments for a chorus from an opera by Julius Benedict. The Lily of Killarney (also known as The Rose of Erin) is the composer's best-known work. Appears at Julius Benedict and The Lily of Killarney.

  • Nominate and support. DurovaCharge! 07:46, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Unfortunately, there are no voices - so this is a not a chorus. The recording is misnamed and frankly not very useful. I think it's a kind of medley of tunes. --Kleinzach 13:29, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • What are you on about, a chorus does not necessarily have anything to do with voices. GerardM (talk) 06:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's a good quality recording on period instruments and the score is also available in a good resolution file. If at some point we're able to find a free licensed recording that also has voice I'd be glad to delist and replace (we recently delisted and replaced Vivaldi when a better version was located). DurovaCharge! 19:10, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK. Can you verify that it is the music of the chorus even if the chorus itself is absent? If so I suggest the file be re-named. At present it's misleading. I can put this to the Opera Project but it's likely the consensus will be for deletion from the The Lily of Killarney article. It's not possible to have one standard for verification/notable of text and another for audio. Best. --Kleinzach 02:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well, the Library of Congress bibliographic notes linked from the image hosting file include the following statement: On September 27, 1974, the Music Division of the Library of Congress recreated a typical concert of brass-band and vocal music from mid-nineteenth-century America. Recorded selections from that concert are presented here. These recordings are the result of several years of research by Jon Newsom of the Music Division and many more years of experience and study by Frederick Fennell, founder and former director of the Eastman Wind Ensemble and professor of music at the University of Miami, and Robert E. Sheldon, then of the Smithsonian Institution's Division of Musical Instruments and presently Curator of Musical Instruments in the Music Division, Library of Congress. Because the purpose of these recordings is to demonstrate the style and quality of the popular music of the era, the musicians use instruments appropriate to the period. I simply used the same descriptors LoC used. DurovaCharge! 03:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • The Lily of Killarney is not American, but English. I think it's possible that the recording is a popular (American?) rearrangement of music from the opera. If that's so it may well have satisfied the purposes of the Library of Congress, but it may not help us with the actual opera. --Kleinzach 02:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • Please provide a source for these assertions. The Library of Congress bibliographic notes say these are alternate names for the same opera. It appears you are opposing this candidacy and threatening to remove the file from the article based upon unsupported claims. This nomination is already sourced according to the same standards as dozens of my previous media featured content nominations. I would gladly amend it if new evidence emerges. DurovaCharge! 03:46, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • Please read what I actually said: "I think it's possible . . ." I did not overstate the case given the paucity of information. As for the nationality of the work, please see the article. Re "alternate names for the same opera" I don't understand, can you clarify? (I thought the only name we had here was The Lily of Killarney.) Thanks. P.S. Nigel Burton's Grove article doesn't mention this chorus at all, so it doesn't seem to be a particularly notable section of the work even when there is a chorus! This quote from Burton may be helpful: "His orchestration is superb: never obtrusive, always sensitive to each instrument's obbligato qualities, yet sometimes prophetic of Elgar in its subtle blends of colour." Is that what you are hearing in this clip?--Kleinzach 06:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(outdent)The citation specifies ...the opera The Rose of Erin (1862), originally called and still known as The Lilly of Kilarney. Now as you wrote, It's not possible to have one standard for verification/notable of text and another for audio. I agree with that statement. This discussion is very confusing: you first declare that the same citation standards must apply to music that apply to text, then when I point out that it has been properly cited and ask for competing citations, it looks very much that instead of supplying them you ask me to violate WP:NOR and attempt to second guess a professor of music and a Smithsonian scholar with my own ear. Well of course I'm not going to do that. If there's something here I'm misunderstanding please set it straight. DurovaCharge! 07:49, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose As Kleinzach wrote, an opera chorus played by a wind orchestra doesn't seem very useful — it doesn't seem to give a true impression of a work which is decribed as "The English Ring" (does Viking really say that?). While Benedict may well deserve its convincing handling of Irish idiom for the work overall, this chorus doesn't seem to be a good example — it sounds very German to me.
I fail to see how this clip lives up to any of the requirements at Wikipedia:Featured sound candidates (i.a: … should illustrate a Wikipedia article in such a way as to add significantly to that article); in fact, I think it detracts from the article: after listening to the clip, I certainly wouldn't want to hear the whole work.
Apparently, the actual chorus includes sopranos which is unusual for a Hunters' Chorus; now that I would like to hear. As it stands, it represents an unusual arrangement of a minor number from a minor opera (notwithstanding its appearance in Ulysses), played by a thoroughly unremarkable orchestra (those tubas need to work on their pitch).
@Durova: Where did you find a score of this work? I found three (very un-operatic) piano scores at the LOC, but nothing like what we hear in this clip.
I don't think this clip satifies the requirement of the first two sentences at WP:FSC. Are there any further evaluation criteria? Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:46, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Frankly, I'm shocked that two long-time Opera people would be so ignorant about the popularisation of opera. The popular operas of the 19th century were assisted in this popularisation by brass band arrangements of their songs. For instance, according to the popular story H.M.S. Pinafore's rise to popularity was directly caused by Sullivan adding extracts of the opera to brass band concerts he was in charge of. (Modern research says that view is simplistic, though most scholars agree it helped)
This is one such arrangement, performed on historical instruments. Admittedly, Durova could have done a much better job of explaining what it is, but this is very, very typical of how a 19th century opera would be used in popular culture. Description should be changed, though, as it is misleading to leave out the words "Brass band arrangement of..." Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 06:12, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • At least we know what it is now. Despite my extraordinary ignorance - which is really much, much greater than the black hole you have identified re. popularization of opera in 19th century America - I did get close in guessing what it was (as Michael Bednarek did). Anyway it's not a chorus, not an opera and shouldn't be elevated to featured status - as an example of opera. Thanks for sorting this out. It would have been unfortunate if it had slipped through. Best. --Kleinzach 07:16, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I do study 19th century British opera as my main field of study - I have this bad habit of presuming that what I know is basic knowledge, when it's often really specialised. =) I do think it's encyclopedic for brass band articles, though. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 08:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If it's an example of 19th-century American brass band playing that's absolutely fine by me. I just don't think it should be on the opera article. --Kleinzach09:20, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is to judge a soundfile; it is not to judge an article on opera. GerardM (talk) 14:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's not quite that simple. WP:FSC starts with "Featured sounds is a list of sounds that add significantly to articles, either by illustrating article content particularly well, or being so striking to the ear that users will want to read the accompanying article. […] the sounds featured on Wikipedia:Featured sounds should illustrate a Wikipedia article in such a way as to add significantly to that article." The objection is that this sound doesn't do anything for this article.

Also, I can't read a judgement of the opera article in Kleinzach's remark. Michael Bednarek (talk) 16:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Brass band arrangements were a large part of the historical popularization of opera. I do not see why it would be inappropriate to include an example of this historically significant phenomena in various appropriate articles, including the article for the composer and operatic piece. Vassyana (talk) 17:59, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Promoted Hunters' Chorus from The Rose of Erin.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:30, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's an entire ballet by Lully and Molière, sans Molière's dialogue between the movements. The importance is obvious, and, insofar as I can be considered able to judge Baroque music, I think the performance quite good. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 22:13, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's used in Lully, Le Bourgeois gentilhomme, and various bits are used elsewhere, e.g. French overture.



Promoted all. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:11, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Both elegant and unique - a "hands-down" masterpiece that has been revered and admired for generations. This debuted back in '77 (1877 that is) as part of a ballet. Arguably Tchaikovskys best work.

Copyrights are recognized internationally depending on the location of where the work was created. --Flewis(talk) 14:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • This was recorded by Michael Tilson Thomas and the London Symphony Orchestra, apparently in 2006. Is it really copyright free? Also why is Swan-Lake hyphenated? --Kleinzach 13:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This wasn't recorded by the London Symphony Orchestra, this is the recording of the performance. Swan-Lake is hyphenated due to file-name consistency. Eg, some browsers may have have trouble understanding blank spaces (%20) --Flewis(talk) 14:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Are you sure about that copyright rationale? The permission section's interpretation of the relevant UK copyright law appears to only cover graphic images of publically displayed works, ie photographs of works of art and suchlike. It does not sound like it covers audio recordings in this way. ~ mazca t|c 18:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Let me see if I understand the rationale: This was performed outdoors, in a public place, and you recorded it there? Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 20:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, recorded in a concert hall ("A premises open to the public" - The UK copyright license does not explicitly state any information regarding audio - especially if the audio is not an official recording by the artist/group in question) --Flewis(talk) 21:59, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This still sounds extremely dubious to me - by that rationale almost any recording of a non-modern piece of music could be classed as free. ~ mazca t|c 22:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and delete The recording is obviously not free, and there is no indication that the arrangement is free either. I propose that we suggest deletion of Commons. Zginder 2008-10-07T22:23Z (UTC)
If anything, the music itself is within the public domain (Author died 115 years ago), which "weakens" the "copyright" further - doubled over by the fact that this is not an official recording by any commercial organization/group. --Flewis(talk) 04:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For any more copyright-based 'opposes' - please continue the discussion here, to avoid a pile on --Flewis(talk) 04:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not promoted as deleted and no support --Zginder 2008-10-10T04:31Z (UTC)



Field recording made in northern Laos of a gecko mating call.

I was just referring to the followering FS Criteria: Role. The file helps readers to understand the topic of an article. The file is used in at least one article, where it is supported by the text and, if appropriate, reference citations on the file description page. I stand by my weak oppose for that reason, I don't think the sound has an appropriate role especially in an unrefenced section of that article. --Banime (talk) 19:12, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Promoted Mating call of a male Tokay gecko (Gekko gecko).ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 06:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An example of Omaha musical culture performed at the Library of Congress in 1985. Ceremonial anthem. Translation provided at image hosting page. Appears at Omaha (tribe).


Promoted Flag song.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:39, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The song that all of Die Meistersinger, Wagner's opera about the creation and theory of music, revolves around. Wagner clearly intended this song, breaking all the old stuffy rules of the Meistersingers, to be a clear expression of his views of music, and hence, it is important and eminently featurable =)

A score is forthcoming. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 13:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Promoted Richard Wagner - Preisleid from Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg sung by Leo_Slezak 3.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 18:38, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lillian Russell was one of the "big names" in operetta. She starred in Gilbert and Sullivan, Offenbach, the New York run of Dorothy, and, in the early 20th century, in musicals, reviews, burlesques, and various other comedies. This is her only recording.

A transcription of the lyrics is forthcoming.


Promoted Lillian Russell - Come Down Ma Evenin' Star.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:00, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do I really need to defend this one? Everyone knows this song. Durova has provided a complete music score at commons:Category:Shine_on_Harvest_Moon.

Lyrics are available at the dedicated article Shine On, Harvest Moon.



Promoted Ada Jones and Billy Murray - Shine On, Harvest Moon.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A fine recording, done during the composer's lifetime. Marguerita Sylva, a.k.a Marguerite Sylva, was good enough to star at the Opéra-Comique in Paris [1], and that's good enough for me. =)

Le Cid is not Massenet's most popular opera, but it has a large, detailed Wikipedia article that is vastly improved by the addition of this sound. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 15:41, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Nominate and support. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 15:36, 1 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Weak oppose as non-notable. Not only does Marguerita Sylva lack an article - she's only mentioned once in another WP article (The Fortune Teller). She's not, for example, in the The Record of Singing. It would be far better to concentrate on notable singers, for whom we have articles. (The recording itself is fine. I'd withdraw my oppose if someone can produce a decent article.) --Kleinzach 06:49, 6 October 2008 (UTC) Changing my vote to support now we have an article - but Shoemaker's Holiday, please don't spam this file over multiple pages. Leave it on the biography! --Kleinzach 23:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • There appear to be plenty of sources, but I'm not quite sure why the presence of a Wikipedia article should affect the quality of her performance, or her notability =) Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 07:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not only does an article provide the best place to locate the sound file, but it is also - among other things - a WP-related proof of notability. Did I really need to explain this? WP is an encyclopedia not a podcast. --Kleinzach 23:49, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think we're coming at this from different perspectives. I come from these things from the perspective of the operas and composers, you from that of the singers. I think that if the recording illustrates the opera well, then it has a home, and adding more information, such as information on the singer, is a bonus. Likewise, if a highly notable singer's only recording does not have an article on the song or opera, I don't see that as a problem either. By creating the pages on the other half, the file becomes more valuable, but does not lose all value because it is only currently doing one of the possible rôles. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 02:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • Oh come on. . . Most of these early recordings can only be appreciated by people who already know the operas. The listener needs to have some aural imagination. That's why they are not appropriate for composer pages. --Kleinzach 12:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I can't vote as I don't have the ogg thingy on my PC, but if others approve of the sound quality, I'd be all in favour of it being a FS. I've just written Marguerite Sylva so the file can have a "home". A very interesting lady! In general terms, I think it's important for readers to have an article which contextualizes the artist they are listening to and would suggest that this be an important criteria to consider when assigning FS status in the future. Best wishes and thanks to Shoemaker's Holiday for all their hard work, Voceditenore (talk) 21:58, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support All the raised issues are solved in my mind. Zginder 2008-10-07T22:42Z (UTC)


Promoted Massenet - Le Cid - Pleurez, pleurez, mes yeux.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 07:39, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two of the biggest names in turn-of-the century opera sing a song from the opera by Giacomo Puccini they helped make the smash hit it has remained to this day. Everything about this is top importance to opera. The singers are the biggest starts of their day, Puccini is arguably the most popular opera composer of all time, and... well, La bohème. The only minor flaw is that Caruso seems to have been hogging the recording horn, making Melba sound a bit weaker.

Extraction of the piece from its context in the opera seems to have involved the removal of a short counterpoint phrase for Mimi (a repeat of the end of the previous song) near the beginning, otherwise, I believe this is complete.

Anyway, I'm going to bed now. I don't think there'll be any significant problems. I haven't found a score yet, but if I don't find one before it closes, I'll grab a transcription of the lyrics instead.


Promoted Enrico Caruso - Nellie Melba - La bohème - O soave fanciulla (restored).ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 03:46, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Forgive all the Massenet - I shall be moving on to Puccini after this, but wanted to finish up a couple articles I had started improving.

That said, I believe I should justify why a lot of what is coming up of late is the same few singers. Basically, when you're looking at pre-1923 public domain sound, you're looking at the infancy of the recording industry, and a lot of frankly bizarre recordings were made as people experimented with the novel new medium. At the moment, I'm trying to fulfil some commitments I've made to WikiProject Opera, as well as helping out a few others with some other genres well-represented in that time period. This means finding high-quality recordings of certain arias and composers.

90% of what I find is utter crap. Every recording I evaluated of the Toreador song from Carmen, for instance, was simply awful. But then we have those few singers who manage top-quality performances consistently, the top few percent of the herd. If the choice is to go with Caruso, or Billy Murphy, or Ada Jones again; to choose someone who sounds terrible; or to not have any coverage at all, I think everyone will agree that choosing Caruso is a good choice.

Perhaps it's unnecessary to defend such choices, particularly as Caruso has only been featured once, but I feel better having done so.


Promoted Jules Massenet, Enrico Caruso, O Souverain, O Juge, O Pere.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:16, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As you may have noticed, I'm trying to keep the number of featured sound nominations on the page at a decent number. Luckily, I'm also doing masses of sound file restorations, so it all works out in the end. This is usually considered Massenet's masterpiece, and I think these recordings are very good samples of it. Particularly, perhaps, the Caruso-Farrar one. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 05:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC) *Nominate and support. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 05:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC) (see below)[reply]

Manon! avez-vous peur...On l'appelle Manon

edit

Promoted Enrico Caruso - Geraldine Farrar - Jules Massenet - Manon - On L'appelle Manon.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah! fuyez, douce image

edit




An Irving Berlin hit from 1918 in a well restored historic recording, sung by Arthur Fields. Composed while Berlin served in the U.S. Army for a benefit show. Appears in Oh! How I Hate to Get Up in the Morning, Yip Yip Yaphank, Arthur Fields. Complete lyrics and sheet music available at Wikisource (linked from the song article).


Promoted Irving Berlin - Arthur Fields - Oh! How I Hate To Get Up In The Morning.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:18, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This recording is an excellent example of what a synthesized piano can do, when done properly. It was made to illustrate the article on the rag as a public domain recording could not be found. It appears in Frog Legs Rag and James Scott. Created on a synthesized piano by Shoemaker's Holiday.

  • There is no performer; it is a synthesized piano. Zginder 2008-10-11T01:50Z (UTC)

Not promoted Frog Legs Rag 2.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:18, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The musical was hugely popular at the time, and is usually considered important to the development of the musical, particularly the chorus line. This recording gives the first verse (presumably for length reasons) of the hit song, "Tell me pretty maiden". A score is linked on the information page.


Promoted Florodora_-_Tell_me_pretty_maiden.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 00:18, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A very striking example of Mozart's works, often used in popular culture. It was performed by Advent Chamber Orchestra and uploaded by User:Graham87 to commons.


Promoted Mozart_-_Eine_kleine_Nachtmusik_-_1._Allegro.ogg. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]