Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2007 February 7

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February 7

Anyone knowledgeable about Chinese?

I'm trying to sort out the convoluted Chinese-related user categories, and have come across an issue I'm not familiar with. Does 龍的傳人 mean Han Chinese, or just Chinese in general? Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 00:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

It means "Descendents of the Dragon" according to google translate, and it will translate from traditional to simplified but not the other way. I'd say it is traditional Chinese. Of course I have no idea at all other then what I just told you, so... Prodego ^talk 00:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I know that, but I'm wondering if it means the major ethnic group in China, or any group that's been under Chinese rule. I want to be clear on that. :) Xiner (talk, email) 01:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

龍的傳人 refers to all chinese people. chinese people believe that they're descended from dragons (not literally, but it's one of those cultural things. Dragons hold a sacred and very important position in chinese culture). So chinese people call themselves the people who're descended from dragons. --`/aksha 02:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I ask because a userbox points the term to Han Chinese, as does one about 炎黃子孫. Xiner (talk, email) 02:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

龍的傳人 refers to Han Chinese, and it probably also refers to some of the more sinicised ethnic minorities in China like the Manchu, the Zhuang, etc. It gets a little ambiguous beyond that, because "Chinese people" can refer to anyone with PRC citizenship - which includes Russian minorities, Uyghur minorities, etc. But the userbox in question is Template:User Han Chinese, it links specifically to Han Chinese and not Chinese people. And presumably it would be used by editors who identify as such. In my opinion, the template should remain the way it is. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

炎黃子孫 refers to the Yellow Emperor and the Yan Emperor, both considered ancestors of all Han Chinese. Literally means "Children and grandchildren of the flame (yan) and yellow". ColourBurst 02:56, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Thank you both for your clarifications. Xiner (talk, email) 03:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

炎黃子孫 has to be Han Chinese. But 龍的傳人 means Chinese (nationality) - so all Chinese ethnicities, except perhaps with a question mark over distincly non-Chinese minority groups like the Khazaks. It's a fairly recent invention in any case. --Sumple (Talk) 06:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Any idea how recent? Xiner (talk, email) 14:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I found a case of strange vandalism or disinformation.

I found a case of strange vandalism or disinformation.

'Czech' is traditionally the name of Southern Slavic peoples.

'Lech' is traditionally the name of Western Slavic peoples.

'Rus' is traditionally the name of Eastern Slavic peoples.

Also country in Europe and its people are also called Czech. This country and its people also traditionally are regarded as Southern Slavic peoples.

It was so always. Strangely however Wikipedia lately doesn't agree with the commonly held knowledge in Eastern Europe amongst Eastern European peoples about these historical ethnical partitions.

It seems somebody is putting the Southern Slavic peoples like Czechs together with Lechs all over Wikipedia. Czechs belong with other Czechs and not with Lechs! Lechs are only Western Slavic peoples and they never included any of Czech people from south in Bulgaria up to north in Czechs, Slovakia and Southern Lusatia.

What's more strange I find on other Wikipedia pages about Slavic ethnicity the Czech moved from Czech, the Southern Slavic peoples to Lechs, the Western Slavic peoples. This is a clear case to me of vandalism or possibly also even a case of disinformation about our Slavic ethnicities in Europe, because all Southern Slavic people were always called Czech and Not Lechs.

Could someone investigate this? Or at least tell me what I suppose to do about it? So far I wrote on Talk:Slavic peoples notice about my finding.Pan Piotr Glownia 01:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Can you go to the affected articles' talk pages and solicit opinions on the matter? The people there would know what's going on. I'm sure most Wikipedians are reasonable. If you could list references, that'd help the discussions too. Also, remember WP:BOLD. Xiner (talk, email) 01:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

How do i make a page?

Can someone plz send me a msg about how to make wikipages? I need to know but i dont know how

Destructo 087 03:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, to create an article you could find a red link, like this one, click it and then edit the page. Or you could add the text to the end of the standard URL, like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/like this one, and then begin editing. However, please make sure that the article you wish to create is verifiable, not original research, and written from a neutral point of view. You may wish to read this page for more information on creating your first article. If you have any further questions, I will be more than happy to attempt to answer them. I hope you have a wonderful day, and happy editing! --Kyra_~(talk) 04:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Edit was removed

I am new to Wikipedia and apologise if this is already answered somewhere. I did look at the FAQs. I added a minor edit to a page on the Siege of Alesia in Caesar's Gaul. It is a link to a Google Earth Placemark, that if clicked would open the map shown on the main article page with another overall map in Google Earth. The result showed the reader exactly where the detailed map belonged on the 3D earth. When I looked just now, a bot had removed it using undo and the note said this was because that site had previously been the target of vandalism and that it was removed because I am a new user. All of the work was mine and I cited the sources for the maps I used. I don't think my addition could be termed harmful, but rather an enhancement. Is there some rule I have violated? Sevenofnine7o9 04:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• That doesn't appear to have been a bot. It was just another editor. If you check the history of the article, you can contact them and ask for an explanation. - 131.211.210.17 09:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Needing Editorial/Experienced Assistance

Hi, I am making some major edits and clean-ups to move the Nancy Reagan article towards FA standards, but the are some things going on with the page characteristics. As I add text or citations, etc., they appear in the edit window but the bottom of the article is truncated. As I am still learning my way around here, some experienced guidance might be nifty. I was also going to ask about whether I can ask legal or medical questions about medical disoprders about suing people, but I guess fromt he FAQ that it ain't allowed. drat...Arcayne 04:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Copied from Wikipedia:Reference Desk/Miscellaneous. V-Man737 05:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Already fixed. The reason the text wasn't appearing was because you did not properly close the <ref> tags. When they are not closed, the text that follows is still considered to be in the reference, and as such is hidden from view. As an example,

Here is some text.<ref name="SomeName">And here is the reference to the text</ref>

I hope this clarifies why the text was mysteriously disappearing, and wish you a most wonderful day. Happy editing! Kyra_~(talk) 05:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Ezhavas

I8n the Wikipedia article on "Ezhavas" ( under the section "Occupations of Ezhavas")there's a deriding comment on a famous General and freedom fighter from Kerala, belonging to Nair Community. It's reproduced below.

"It is said that Veluthampi Dalawa the legendary Nair General of Travancore prohibited the drafting of Ezhava men into military service, even in menial ranks.The serving Ezhava soldiers were retrenched from Thampi's "Nair Pattalam"."

The remark is not borne out by facts in testimony. It's a slanderous comment, and is totally out of place in the context where it is used.So, there's reason to believe that the comment is posted out of jealousy and malice.

Please remove this statement —Preceding unsigned comment added by Masgunan Mananthavaadi (talk • contribs)

You will likely want to discuss this at Talk:Ezhava, where those more familiar with the article will have a better idea of what is going on. -- Natalya 12:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

image issue

Hi My image Image:PaRapperTheRapperScreenshots.jpg is right but is showing up weird in the article PaRappa the Rapper 2. Could someone please fix or tell ME how to fix it. Email me at email address commented out Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adammw (talk • contribs)

It's showing up fine for me; what looked wrong? -- Natalya 12:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate?

Is Alberta federal electoral districts/Map inappropriate? I thought articles shouldn't have subpages. John Reaves (talk) 06:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Huh. Generally not, yeah -- subpages are specifically disabled in mainspace, so the page will technically count as a seperate article (it'll show up using Special:Random and such) -- easy options include moving it to a Talk: subpage (which does work) or moving it into the template namespace. Not tooooo big of a deal, either way, but I'd recommend doing one of the two, personally. Luna Santin 07:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

After the move, should it be tagged for deletion? John Reaves (talk) 07:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I've also found Central Alberta/Map Provinces of Cuba/Map made by the same user. John Reaves (talk) 07:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I've moved all of the pages to the template namespace and fixed all of the links, and tagged them per G6 thanks for the help. John Reaves (talk) 07:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

employee role in increasing productivity

what is the employee role in increasing the productivity.

Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions, and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that's what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. -- John Broughton (☎☎) 17:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

PROJECT PREPAIRATION

Dear Wikipedia,

It is in connection of study of my son. Dear I want to prepare a project on MEANS OF TRANSPORT for my son studying in Standard 3 on mumbai school. So please guide me in this regard.

Awaiting for early reply.

Nitin Gupta —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nisupi (talk • contribs)

This doesn't really seem like a question for Wikipedia, but rather for someone at the school or related area. However, Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions, and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that's what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. -- Natalya 12:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Lost information from final 3 sections

dear wikipedia help desk

for some reason after editing this entry it has lost the information from the final 3 sections (see also, references, and external links). even though they are visible in edit mode, they do not show up in normal mode.

are you able to fix this problem or advise?

thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sb205 (talk • contribs)

Try bypassing your cache. Go to Wikipedia:Bypass your cache for instructions. --WikiSlasher 10:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Also what article are you talking about? --WikiSlasher 10:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

This appears to refer to Simon Baron-Cohen. The problem was fixed by this edit, which corrects an error you introduced in this edit. This is a very easy mistake to make! Notinasnaid 10:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Based on the contribs of the user asking the question, the article was Simon Baron-Cohen. The problem is that with this edit an unclosed <ref> tag was added, which causes the rest of the page to disappear. PeaceNT fixed it with this edit, so the article should be fine now. --ais523 10:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Sb205, you may want to take a look at WP:FOOT for more details on the <ref> element. Cheers PeaceNT 10:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Image:Alexis-BledelDSC0809.jpg

Are you guys sure that the license of the above image is O.k? I would like to use that image in the hebrew-wiki. Gridge 13:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

As long as your attribute the creator appropiately under the Creative Commons license detailed on the image information page. The creative commons page describes the licenses that it is under. -- Natalya 16:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

An afterthought; you'll want to check what licenses are allowed for images at the Hebrew Wikipedia, to make sure that what is okay on the English Wikipedia is okay there too. -- Natalya 16:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you:-) Gridge 17:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

Is there something like filter by more than one categories?

I would like to know if there is a way to filter, when looking for an article.

Example: Let's say I'm not looking for a specific article, but something like all the people that were born between 1970 and 1980, and they have won an Oscar (Academy award) Let's say there is a category like "people born in the '80-s", and an other article "academy award winners". I'd like to know if it is possible somehow to see a list of the articles that go under both categories. If there is no such thing - would it be possible to make that happen somehow?

I think it would be such a great tool for wiki.

Thanks Csabadapp 14:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if [1] works. Xiner (talk, email) 14:48, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I was just passing by, and spotted your query. Yes, there is a way to do this, with searching. You would use Google for a site-specific search (see its advanced search page). Wikipedia's categories show up on Google searches, so you can include categories in your searches (enclose multi-word categories in quotes to get an exact match). That's how you filter by category. You may pick up more pages than are listed in the categories, due to phrase matching, but that's a bonus, not a penalty here - as very few categories are complete, and you may find missing pages that belong in the categories being searched for! Searching Wikipedia is a fine art. See my tools page for more search tips (like using Google wildcards for proximity searching, etc.). If you have further questions, feel free to buzz me on my talk page. The Transhumanist   18:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Xiner's link is bad (should have been a space, not a pipe). The correct link for the category intersection tool is this. -- John Broughton (☎☎) 17:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Login Issues

I am unable to login to wikipedia and stay logged in. After logging in, the next page I go to states that I am "not logged in" any time I try and do something that requires me to be logged in? This is the only website I am having this issue with.

Username: Krahazik

Your browser may not be accepting cookies, check your browser's options/preferences. GhostPirate 18:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Kings of Spain Family Tree

Sirs,

I am trying to print the end of this article for my Daughters homework but am unable to. Is this not allowed or am I doing something wrong??Jan Shrimpton 17:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. I tried Print Preview in Firefox 2 and IE 7, and neither shows the full image. Try this: open up the first and second links and press File...Save Page As in your browser for each image to say your desktop. Then go to the files on your desktop and open them. If they open up in another program, you can probably print them with no problem. Anyone can edit this message if they think they can explain it better. Xiner (talk, email) 17:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

It's a single graphics file that is longer than one page long. Right click on it. Then click on "Save image as". Save it to a folder that you will definitely remember where you saved it to. Notice that it is in .png format. If you don't have a graphics program that can handle it, there are many available for free on the Internet, such as Irfanview, or the GIMP. You should also be able to load it into MS Word and print it from in there. You could also try asking at our computer desk. See the directory at the top of this page. Good luck. The Transhumanist   19:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Query on Santa Cruz Laguna Philippines

Hi,

I have a request here and i hope you can help me in it. I would like to find out about Sunstar shopping mall in Santa Cruz Laguna, its address and its contact number if possible. I have tried many websites for help but none are able to. I think this is my last resort. Im very eager to obtain this information as it is very important to me. Hope u guys can help and im able to get some response soon.

Thank you so much!

Have you tried online yellow pages? Have you Google searched for "International yellow pages"? There are several listings for "shopping malls" in the Santa Cruz and Laguna Beach areas. But nothing shows up for the Phillipines. There's both a Santa Cruz and a Laguna Beach in California, very near each other, so are you sure the place you are looking for is in the Phillipines? Also, you might try asking our info gurus at...

Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions, and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that's what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. The Transhumanist   19:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Board members in good standing.....

I am looking for a definition of what "in good standing" means in relation to becoming a board member

A board member in good standing is one who isn't absent too long from meetings.

A member in good standing, is anyone with a user account who isn't guilty of some grave wiki-misdeed. That is, not currently banned, nor on probation, etc. The qualifications are generally covered in the election instructions. To track those down, try starting at Wikipedia:Elections. Good luck. The Transhumanist   18:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Better answers will be found at the foundation wiki. What it generally means, is a trustee who has 1) been elected 2) is eligible to serve on the board, and 3) is not currently suspended from the board by resolution (for removal, fraud, or whatever). Hope that helps answer your question. Somitho 19:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

birds who migrate to same place at same time

There is a story about sparrows who migrate on the same exact date and time every year, and return to the same exact place . I would like more information on this. I am also looking for information on the migration of hummingbirds and butterflies. thank you 18:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)18:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)75.50.249.255

Hmm welcome to Wikipedia, however you asked you question in the wrong place. Ask at one of the Reference Desks. Cheers. ~ Arjun 18:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Arjun, we try to answer these anyways, and refer the question asker to the reference desk as well. Please see the volunteer instructions for this page (a link is provided above near the top of the page). The Transhumanist   18:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

We have an article on migration, and also one specifically on bird migration. Butterfly migration is mentioned briefly in our butterfly article, but there is more information about butterfly migration in the article on monarch butterflies. And by the way...

Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions, and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that's what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. The Transhumanist   18:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd bet the questioner is thinking about the Cliff Swallows of San Juan Capistrano, California. See the Historical notes. It's strange that I can recall reading about them as a child, but I can't remember the names of people I met last week. --Teratornis 23:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Redirects

I thought I knew how to change a redirect, but I am running into a problem. The original was List of Degrassi Junior High Episodes, which redirected to Degrassi Junior High. I changed it so it would redirect to List of Degrassi episodes instead, and that shows up on the redirect page, but it does not seem to work. What have I done wrong?--Vbd 18:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I clicked on all three of the links you provided above, and they all work correctly (that is, they all go to the appropriate articles (by name, or by redirect to the new name). I'm not seeing any double redirects (that's when a page shows up with just a redirect on it, and no article). What exactly are you looking at that makes you think there is a problem? The Transhumanist   18:26, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• When I click on this link for List of Degrassi Junior High Episodes, it still redirects me to the Degrassi Junior High page rather than to the List of Degrassi episodes page. Interestingly, if I click on where it says "redirected from . . ." at the top of the Degrassi Junior High page, I get the List of Degrassi Junior High Episodes page with my changed redirect to List of Degrassi episodes showing on it. Is that a double redirect?--Vbd 19:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• You may need to flush your browser cache to see your change. I also saw no problems when I checked. I also note that nothing links to List of Degrassi Junior High Episodes except this page, so there is no double redirect problem there. -- John Broughton (☎☎) 16:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

me add

<email address removed for your protection> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.216.186.101 (talk • contribs)

• Hello, do you have a question for us? Notinasnaid 19:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Signatures

How can u add four tildes so that it just shows the tildes and not the signature le Dan 19:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Surround them with <nowiki></nowiki>, which is listed in the "Wiki markup" section right below the "Save page" button when editing. Xiner (talk, email) 19:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Finding the Software

I have been searching for the Wiki software for the last few months, and I haven't found much that fits the Wikipedia style. What would you recommend for the best version of the software? Please help.

See Meta Wiki, Your own installation. Then Look under the box that has "Fundamental Introduction to MediaWiki" at the top. That might help. --Darkest Hour • ¿? 20:01, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Removing Orphaned Article Message

I extensively edited an article. I also added several links to the article. Now how do I remove the message at the top that says something like "after adding links remove this message?" Philip W Bush 19:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

All you need to do is remove the template at the top of the page providing that notice. It will be within curled brackets {{ }}. If you're not sure if it's the right one, just preview the page before you save it. -- Natalya 20:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I had figured it out. It wasn't quite as simple as you make it sound. You need to see that there's an "edit this page" tab at the top of the article. Only by finding that did I find the notice.

"Briticisms" and "Americanisms"

For some time, I've been seeing people on this site replacing American spellings with British ones and vice versa. I was under the impression that this was not Wikipedia policy, and I find it rather insulting to the editor who submitted the work in the first place (and before you correct me here, I am aware of the GNU free documentation licence). For example, quite recently on Hail to the Thief someone "corrected" an Americanism, changing "polarizing" into "polarising", which I think was quite a bigoted change to make, implying that American English spellings are somehow less "correct" than British English.

Most recently, some text I added to List of non-Kremling Donkey Kong enemies was changed from the British "Rareware were bought" to the American "Rareware was bought". Perhaps I'm a little too easily offended, but I don't think that's right. However, I've never felt able to revert such changes as then I'd be doing the exact same thing I object to.

Any advice on this matter would be much appreciated. RobbieG 20:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

If the article is British-specific, it should be in British English. If it is American-specific, it should be in American English. If it isn't specific to either version, it should be consistent, using the version that was used when the article was first created. Corvus cornix 21:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

• Specifically, Hail to the Thief is a British rock band, and spellings should be British. Donkey Kong - I'm not so sure. But it is important (for whatever reason) that each article be internally consistant. WilyD 21:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Never attribute to malice what can be as easily explained by ignorance. Or something like that. We do want internally consistent usage (per page). We do want British topics to use British spelling and American topics to use American spelling. Sometimes, you will have a conflict over whether a page should be considered British or American. But in my experience, most of these changes are done by people who just don't know that there's an issue; they just see polarising/polarizing as a misspelling, and "fix" it. Save yourself some grief and don't be offended...just fix it with an appropriate (polite) explanation.–RHolton≡– 23:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Note also Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Disputes over style issues.--Fuhghettaboutit 23:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I've looked at the two articles again, and it seems that Hail to the Thief is written in American English, although it's about an album by a British band. Meanwhile, List of non-Kremling Donkey Kong enemies alternates between the two styles throughout. When I started that article, I used only British English. It features Rareware greatly, and they're British, but they nearly always use American English. Of course, Donkey Kong himself is Japanese! What should I do? RobbieG 08:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like there's no clear reason to use either British or American English for List of non-Kremling Donkey Kong enemies. That being the case, the consensus is that the variety of English used by the editor who started the article (or who first contributed substantial content to it) should be left alone. If you used British English when you started it, and you didn't start it as a stub (or even less) OR you were also the first significant contributor, then it should be left as British English, and you should feel free to revert changes to the contrary. The first time you revert an editor for this, though, I think it would help if you put a notice on the talk page explaining why. --Tkynerd 15:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone thought of designing away this silly problem via some mechanism to localize the user's preference for British English vs. American English spelling? It seems this should not be terribly difficult (although I'm probably not thinking of all the possible hitches, glitches, and gotchas immediately). A good start might be possible with the following items:

• A table of words which have different British and American spellings. There should only be finitely many of these, right?
• Some method for tagging words in an article which must only appear in one or the other spelling (such as the word "Labour" in Labour Party). This might either be a tag to put around every instance of a word of phrase which must not change, or a single tag to place at the top of the article which identifies all such words in the article, or both.

Then it should be possible for the user's preferences to offer choices for British, American, or the article's original spelling, at least for viewing. Of course editing is a different story. A much thicker client than an HTML edit box would be necessary to hightlight the words susceptible to British vs. American spelling, because the (human) editor probably has to see the original spelling, and would need to understand why some words are spelled (spelt?) differently in the edit box than they appear when viewing the article under the user's British/American preference setting. A nice thick client might also suggest synonyms for the highlighted words which have invarient spelling (thereby automating the advice to select words common to all, see: WP:ENGVAR#National varieties of English). Perhaps the client program could identify user edits which only toggle the British/American spelling, and the client might display a warning, with links to all the appropriate policy documents. If cramming all that into an editing client is too hard, how about writing some MediaWiki extensions or special pages that analyze the British/American content of an article, highlight the words with alternate spellings, and suggest invariantly-spelled synonym alternatives? Anyway, if all this has been considered before and rejected as impractical with current technology, I apologize for naively suggesting it. --Teratornis 17:33, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. By the way, I think Teratornis' suggestion sounds excellent. It would be good if it could also cater for Australian, Indian etc. The default should, of course, be American. I hope whoever writes the policies is reading this.

However, I have spotted a possible flaw in the idea - there are some words that would complicate this considerably. For example, I almost always write gaol, but jail is now considered equally acceptable over here, so there are many British English people who would consider the gaol spelling weird. Which would we use in such cases? RobbieG 18:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I have never heard of the pluralisation of entities - as in "Rareware were bought" - as British English. To me, it is simply very poor grammar, and I cringe whenever I read instances of that (mis)usage. Rareware is a company - a single entity - therefore "Rareware was bought" is surely correct. Adrian M. H. 21:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm certain that "Rareware were bought" is correct British English. Rareware is an organisation, a group of people. Therefore, it is plural. The easy way to think of it is to look at bands. You wouldn't say "The Beatles was," "The Supremes was," or "The Red Hot Chili Peppers is," you'd say "are." Similarly, you would say "Oasis are," "Nirvana were," etc. RobbieG 23:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Although this is purely speculation, this difference could arise because of the conferred status of artificial personhood to corporations in the United States. I'm not sure what UK law looks like in this regard. .V. _[Talk|Email] 23:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The only reasons I, as an American, would say "The Beatles are" is because "The Beatles" is plural in form. Oasis is and Nirvana was. --Tkynerd 00:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Removing links under notability guidelines?

I'm trying to learn more about wiki policy & guidelines, I hope somebody can help with the following.

Whilst editing the article for the medical condition hyponatremia, I noticed someone had added a notable case, including a description and an external link - all OK so far. They've since linked to the non-existent page James McBride (police officer) and added a disambiguation entry for the individual in James McBride.

On reviewing the notability guidelines, it seems that a full wikipedia entry for this person would not be "notable" (WP:BIO).

Would it be appropriate for me to:

1. Delink "James McBride" in the main article?

2. Remove the reference from the disambiguation page?

(Note that I'm not proposing to removing the story and external link from the hyponatremia page). Thanks. James Bedford 20:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

If you believe he is not notable to have an article this should be done. However, if you believe that he can have an article, you should leave it as is.--Natl1 (Talk Page) (Contribs) 22:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

So it's essentially up to me to use common sense? Dangerous... -James Bedford 00:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes! But then anyone else can review your decision and make a change if it seems sensible to them. It's the wiki way. –RHolton≡– 13:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

And the wiki way, if someone disagrees, is to discuss the matter. You can either dewikify the redlink and change the disambiguation page, or you can use the history page to figure out who changed the disambiguation page, and post a note on his/her user page asking why he/she thinks this person does meet WP:BIO criteria. -- John Broughton (☎☎) 16:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks RHolton and John Broughton. John - would your suggestion be in keeping with the "no revert rule" ethos? James Bedford 08:54, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Using Content on Personal Website

I am creating a new website and want to use some of the text from Wikipedia (ex. definition of forensic toxicology). I've read the rules on copyright, mirrors and forks and GFDL but I am so confused. How can we use text content and give Wikipedia credit, or do we not need to? 208.178.159.254 22:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

You can use anything on Wikipedia under the terms of the GFDL. Basically, there are two requirememnts. You must state on your website that this content is available under the GFDL and host or link to a copy of the licence (see Wikipedia:Text of the GFDL.) You must also credit the authors, which is typically done by linking to either the Wikipedia article or its history page. Hope this helps. --Cherry blossom tree 22:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a "cite this article" on the page for every article. Clicking it will show you how to format a reference for that page. Cheers! Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 22:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Citing Wikipedia is appropriate when what your doing is fair use. If what you want to do is quote a definition of forensic toxicology (a few sentences at most), then that probably is fair use, and a citation is in order. On the other hand, if you wanted to republish the entire forensic toxicology article, then you would need to follow the GFDL requirements. Note that under the terms of the GFDL, content that you add or change must also be licensed under the GFDL. –RHolton≡– 13:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)