Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 August 21

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August 21

Recreating a deleted article

I began to make an article for Elevation Church but found that one already existed but was deleted. After reading the deletion log and seeing that it was speedy deleted for a7, I think I can write an article that establishes notability, but am I required to get administration approval before recreating a deleted article or can I just create it on my own?Ltwin (talk) 00:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

No, if you can write an article which asserts sufficient claim of notability and has the sources to back it up, you can put it right there. If it had been deleted through AFD, or for whatever reason had been protected from recreation, then you would probably need to go to deletion review to get some consensus for it. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 03:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Even if there's been an AfD, a new article which addresses the reason for deletion can simply be recreated. The issue there is whether WP:CSD#G4 applies, which relates only to articles that are essential reposts containing the same flaws that resulted in the deletion basis at the deletion discussion.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

If you are concerned that it might get deleted, you may want to start by creating it as a subpage of your user page (e.g., User:Ltwin/Elevation Church draft). Then, after you are happy with it, ask for comments on it here. If the commentators think it's OK, you can then simply do a page move to Elevation Church. Good luck! -Arch dude (talk) 15:24, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Consensus?

Hi. I as well as a couple other members are currently in a naming/merging dispute of an article. We have requested a third opinion, and got 2 of them. All other members support the proposed merge, as well as the users who posted the third opinions, which is supported by the official website of the event, while 1 user opposes it. If all other users support the move while 1 opposes it, is that considered a consensus? I have looked at all the other help pages on resolving a dispute, but nothing seems to work with this one user. The specific dispute is at Talk:Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in the Eurovision Song Contest#Merger proposal. Thanks for the help. Greekboy (talk) 00:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone help? Greekboy (talk) 21:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry if I am being pushy, but I posted this question over 2 days ago, and I see that every other question posted after mine has been answered. I do not know where else to turn with this question. Greekboy (talk) 15:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if I'll be able to help, but I think I can point you in the right direction. This page is for questions about using Wikipedia, but the editor assistance page and request for comment page will probably be able to give more help. I hope this helps! TN‑X-Man 15:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

How do I get the blue colored links to print out?

How do I get the blue colored links to print out on my printer?

24.242.127.253 (talk) 01:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Does your printer setup have an option to print in monochrome? Depending on how desperate you are to print something, and assuming you are talking about printing a Wikipedia article, one tedious method might be to save a copy of the article from your Web browser to an HTML file. Open the HTML file in a text editor and remove all the <a href=...> tags (but not the text they mark). Then open the edited HTML file in your browser and print it. If you need more specific advice, you'll have to tell us what kind of printer you are using. --Teratornis (talk) 04:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I think the user wants the blue links to remain the the printed pages. In Firefox you can try File → Page setup → Print Background (colors & images) Louis Waweru  Talk  09:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I have the same problem with Safari - every webpage I print has a lot of missing information because none of the links print on the laser printer. I think the printer thinks they are non-repro blue and are correction marks and so shouldn't be printed. However, I don't want a solution, I just want to complain. 199.125.109.43 (talk) 22:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Sortable table

In this page: List of mountains in Malaysia i created a sortable table. Is there way to make the table sort a certain parameter by default (so that when the page is opened, the table is always sorted according to Height)? ќמшמφטтгמ^torque 01:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, the default setting is the order that the data appears in the edit screen - so if your table is:

{|class="wikitable sortable" 
!Name
!Height
|- valign="top"
|Mountain A
|1000
|- valign="top"
|Mountain B
|2000
|- valign="top"
|Mountain C
|500
|}

It will appear in that order by default:

Name	Height
Mountain A	1000
Mountain B	2000
Mountain C	500

Reordering the default position, unless anyone knows better, means rearranging the data... Bencherlite^Talk 01:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

See Help:Sorting#Controlling sorting and display and Help:Sorting#Sorting the wikitext of a table. I don't know if those sections help. You could also try asking on Help talk:Sorting; there's a lot of discussion there. --Teratornis (talk) 04:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Confirmation

Is this a correct making of a ref? 194.75.236.69 (talk) 09:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Almost, here is the full spec on citeweb. I notice that you are missing a zero in the access date month. Louis Waweru  Talk  09:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You may like using a citation tool. See WP:EIW#Citetools. For example, WPCITE generates this {{Cite web}} template with one click:

<ref>
{{cite web
|url=http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/prop12apr99_1.htm
|title=Antimatter and Fusion for rocket propulsion
|publisher=science.nasa.gov
|accessdate=2008-08-21
}}
</ref>

which you would then edit a bit further to fill out some fields that WPCITE either missed or did not fill out optimally. (I like the default formatting with one template parameter per line. That's much easier for me to read and edit than having all parameters mashed onto one line.) If you're looking for scholarly references, {{Google scholar cite}} can sometimes save time. For example, to find references for the Antimatter article, click this link:

• Antimatter

The search results page shows many hits. To generate a citation template for one of them, click the {{Wikify}} link below it. Here's one:

<ref name=Cohen1998>{{citation
 |author1=Cohen, A. G. |author2=De Rujula, A. |author3=Glashow, S. L. | year = 1998
 | title = A Matter‐Antimatter Universe?
 | journal = The Astrophysical Journal
 | volume = 495
 | issue = 2
 | pages = 539–549
 | doi = 10.1086/305328
 | url = http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/305328
}}</ref>

which generates a reference like this:

• Cohen, A. G.; De Rujula, A.; Glashow, S. L. (1998), "A Matter‐Antimatter Universe?", The Astrophysical Journal, 495 (2): 539–549, doi:10.1086/305328

Using citation tools can be about an order of magnitude more productive than manually editing citation templates, if the citation tools find what you want. Speculation about the future: as Wikipedia becomes more popular, publishers of original content may realize the value of being cited from Wikipedia, and format their content to make it easier for Wikipedia's citation tools to parse. Maybe someday we will have virtually effortless, highly reliable citation tools that even Wikipedia's newest users (or better yet, bots) can easily master. Currently it's a bit arcane for a Wikipedia user to stumble into, say, the Editor's index and realize we have some worthwhile citation tools. That process needs to get a lot easier somehow. --Teratornis (talk) 15:09, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Article already had an AfD page

I've just nominated List of male superheroes for deleted at AfD. I stupidly didn't look to see if it had one already because List of superheroines, which I've nominated in the correct way, didn't. The tag at the top of the page links to a previous debate. I don't know how to clean it up. Would someone please help? -- _{Escape Artist Swyer} ^{Talk to me} _{The mess I've made} 14:43, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Just do /List of male superheroes 2

After you subst the afd template you can change the links. - jc37 14:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect move

I moved page to new page in accordance with incorrect spelling at an external site. How do I undo my error? Kittybrewster ☎ 15:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I've reverted the move for you. - jc37 15:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You can undo your edits in the history tab by clicking undo. Another easy way is to click the left-most radio button of the version you want to restore, and have the other radio button on your version. Then compare them. You should now have four options: restore, rollback (assume good faith), rollback, and rollback (vandal). Louis Waweru  Talk  21:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

If one can "undo" a page move, that's news to me... - jc37 00:08, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll take your word for it, but it does seem possible from the history page... Louis Waweru  Talk  17:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Finding articles

Would it be possible to find articles that belong to both of some two categories? E.g. I'm looking for articles to fix that are both in the Category:High-importance Croatia articles and in Category:Unassessed Croatia articles. I know I could try and find the two articles fitting my pattern by hand, but it would be a problem if there were 100 or 1,000 High-importance articles. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 17:09, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The table on Wikipedia:WikiProject Croatia showing the status of assessment criteria might help you. Astronaut (talk) 17:17, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Try CatScan. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 18:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I found about the 2 neglected high-importance articles via the table, but I couldn't find a way to find them. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 21:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Can I help?

I want to help with wikipedia, but I'm not much for ediing, or stopping vandalism. Is there a way I could possibly join the reference desk, to help people with specific questions.....or something like that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshd19 (talk • contribs) 17:21, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi Joshd91 - yes you would be very welcome at the reference desks! All you have to do is look through them till you see a question you can help to answer, and get stuck right in. I've given you a "welcome box" on your talk page, which has lots of useful links to help you find your way about, but if you have any more questions about using Wikipedia, then please do ask. Best wishes, DuncanHill (talk) 17:29, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Of course! There are reference desks for a multitude of topics. Find one that interests you and jump right in! TN‑X-Man 17:44, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia mentions many ways to contribute. The reference desk is among them. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You can also answer questions right here on the Help desk. To learn how:

• See: Wikipedia:Help desk/How to answer.
• Study the answers that other volunteers give for questions you do not initially know how to answer. Over time, you will see some questions repeating, and you will know the answers.
• Since so many questions are repeats of earlier questions, you can often find good answers by searching the Help desk archive pages.

Even if you don't want to answer questions on the Help desk, you can learn a lot about Wikipedia by reading other users' questions and answers. --Teratornis (talk) 21:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Before being bold on the Reference desk, you may wish to read Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines. --Teratornis (talk) 21:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Teratornis forgot to mention the Editor's index for looking up answers to questions. Every question commonly asked on the helpdesk is there, along with many they haven't thought of yet. Algebraist 21:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we documented all the tricks we know so far in Wikipedia:Help desk/How to answer and we do love the Editor's index. Learning to answer questions on the Help desk is approximately the same thing as becoming an expert at using and editing Wikipedia. No single person knows everything there is to know about Wikipedia, I think, but it's not too hard to get pretty good at being able to find just about anything when you need it. Of course the trick is to realize that what you need is out there so you know to look for it. --Teratornis (talk) 00:10, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion

What if an article lists no secondary sources and the person about whom the article was written created the article? Would this make it a candidate for speedy deletion? Copana2002 (talk) 17:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Possibly. Review the criteria at WP:SPEEDY. Does the article fit one of those categories? If not, you may want to consider proposed deletion instead. Cheers! TN‑X-Man 17:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Is the article totally irredeemable? If it is something trivial and unencyclopediac, then yes, put it up for deletion. If it looks notable, then can some reliable references be added? --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 18:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

work place hazords and dangers

how do u report a dangerous work enviorment and possiable being let go for reporting it to a higher up in the company —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.215.28.119 (talk) 18:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a place for requesting help in using Wikipedia. Did you have a question related to that? TN‑X-Man 18:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over two million articles, and thought that we were directly affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the online free encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is a help desk for asking questions related to using the encyclopedia. Thus, we have no inside track on the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the left hand side of your screen. If that is not fruitful, we have a reference desk, divided into various subjects areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 18:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Masseter article contains un-deletable vandalism

Hi

Masseter muscle contains the obvious vandalism

"Facts

The masseter is the only muscle in the human body that is actually bullet proof. Any other sort of weapon can cause injury to the muscle, but bullets will bounce off."

I cannot seem to erase this in the edit tab or by clicking the edit link on the section in the article.

I've never seen this before. Is this some new hack??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.136.80 (talk) 19:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

That vandalism was removed in [1] many hours before you posted here. You must have seen an old page version. Try to bypass your cache to see the current version. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

OK thanks. Should've thought of that!

78.144.136.80 (talk) 19:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

People awarded the Military Cross

If somebody was awarded the military cross does that mean they are notable enough to write an article about? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.210.143 (talk) 20:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Prior discussion at Talk:Military Cross says no, as this is a third level award. I suggest you discuss it on that talk page, as editors with knowledge on this are more likely to monitor that page. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:23, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Login issue

Hi I cannot log into my account. email gets sent to my old email address but not making it to my new email address. I cannot change the password since I dont remember it. I want to use the current user name to log in what can I do now? cant create a new account because it says user name is too close the my account! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.176.195.220 (talk • contribs)

If you can't remember the password, or access the email address, then your old account is lost. You can get round the too-close-name restriction by requesting an admin create your new account for you here. Algebraist 21:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

detele

detele all yoai —Preceding unsigned comment added by As725 (talk • contribs) 21:23, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

This is the Help desk for the English Wikipedia. I don't know what you mean by "detele all yoai". If you want to delete all yaoi articles then note that Wikipedia is not censored and articles will not be deleted merely for being connected to homosexuality. See Wikipedia:Deletion policy for ways to suggest individual deletions. Other language versions of Wikipedia are listed at meta:List of Wikipedias. The "languages" box to the left has links to help desks for some of them. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Preferred format for adding questions to talk pages?

Hello,

I am new to editing Wikipedia articles - and I have a couple questions about Talk Pages...

1. I'd like to ask a question that could/would/might lead to an edit on a page - but I'd prefer that an active Wikipedia editor do the addition, hopefully based on a thread/comment/discussion that I kick off. The problem is that I see on some pages (e.g. the google page) that there are lots of comments - but on many pages there are just a couple template sections - and no content sections.

Question: Is there a preferred format for "starting" this comments section? Or is this technically a "contents" section (as it appears to be called on the Google page).

2. Again, using the google page as an example - there is a Table of Contents - but when I look in the markup, I see the first question (about holiday logos), but I don't see anything that results in the T.O.C. showing up above that.

Question: If it is a preferred best practice to have a T.O.C. above comments/content - how do I create this markup so that my question is asked in the best way/format

Thanks for any help - I'd like to start contributing, but I'd also like to do it in the way that experienced editors would recommend.

Thank you! una risata —Preceding unsigned comment added by Una risata (talk • contribs)

New questions go on the bottom of the page. Start a section by putting its title between sets of double = signs. The TOC is generated automatically - you don't need to do anything. Rmhermen (talk) 22:00, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

And don't use spaces for indenting, as this has unexpected results. Use colons instead. Algebraist 22:03, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Talk pages also have a "new section" tab to start a new section. Since you ask about what is recommended, please sign your talk posts with ~~~~ at the end. The TOC automatically appears when there are more than 3 sections. See Help:Section for more details. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

See Help:Talk page and Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. It may also be helpful to transclude a {{Talkheader}} template at the top of a talk page, since it links to documents describing how to use a talk page. I do this whenever I see a talk page that has edits by users who didn't follow the talk page guidelines. --Teratornis (talk) 23:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

If the edit you are wishing to make is potentially controversial, it is indeed considered good practice to discuss it on the article's talk page first (see all the excellent advice above on how to do so), although it can sometimes be difficult to get a discussion going on a low-traffic article with no previous talk-page comments. If you feel it will not be controversial and will improve the article, I'd encourage you to be bold and make the edit yourself - it's the best way to learn. Make sure you cite a source for your addition if one exists, and give a decent edit summary so other users can understand quickly what you've done and can see that this is a good-faith edit. What's the worst that can happen? You can't do the article any permanent damage and you may well make it better. If someone disagrees with you and reverts your edit, you may be able to discuss matters with them on the article's talk page and reach a helpful consensus, which will also be a good learning experience. Karenjc 13:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Editing of the Paper Route (band) Wikipedia site

This was my first attempt at an edit on Wikipedia. Everything seemed to be okay for a day but then it all disappeared. I can find the information I edited as i poke around behind the scenes but it's like a foreign language to me. Is there a simple explanation for why none of the information I added is still there? It was hours of work and is a bit disappointing that it is not published.

I do not know what it means to sign my question Billymc1 (talk) 23:05, 21 August 2008 (UTC)?? Billymc1

Welcome to the wonderful world of collaborative editing. On Wikipedia, we can edit almost anything we want, but the flip side is that anyone else can edit our stuff too. To see what became of your edits, check the history of the Paper Route (band) article. It looks like User:XLinkBot clobbered your edits. At first glance, I'm not sure if XLinBot is working correctly. --Teratornis (talk) 23:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

(ec)Your edits were reverted by XLinkBot, a bot which reverts edits adding potentially dubious external links. In this case, the bot noticed your links to youtube, which often hosts copyright violations, and reverted your edits. Since the youtube videos you linked to are in fact copyright violations, and thus inappropriate under Wikipedia's external links guidelines, you shouldn't put them back in the article. I can't see any immediate reason you shouldn't put back the rest of your contributions though. Algebraist 23:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)\

Signing means to place ~~~~ in the post, usually at the end. The software automatically changes it to a signature. Your post contained ~~~~ (as part of a question) so it was actually signed. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC)