Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2012 November 21

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November 21

Technical Problem with Article

There seems to be a technical problem with the History of the Americas article. When I go to it, I don't get the most recent version. I get the two-edits-ago version. I made the last two edits, but the default version seems to be stuck on the last October version. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.129.253 (talk) 01:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC) Seems to work now. Thanks, whoever fixed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.129.253 (talk) 01:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Try to bypass your cache when this happens. If it doesn't help then try to purge the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:00, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I Need Help -

Hi,

I have been working on a submission for a while now: Articles for creation/The Services Union

and have taken into consideration all the reviewers' feedback. I gave an explanation as to why the Australian Services Union is different from the Services Union also, therefore needing its own page which the reviewer corresponded they understood and encouraged me to fix bits up and resubmit. I have done this, but my submission is now in the Submission Declined category-does this mean I am no longer able to try and get my submission approved? I am asking the question as I have asked for responses about my last edit-as I feel that the submission now answers and adheres to the requirements of wiki.However, I have had no responses. I have tried the Treehouse, but having problems submitting a question also. Can someone please help me?

Thanks

Ljbird92 (talk) 01:17, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

This refers to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/The Services Union. It appears that the draft has been resubmitted (see the olive green box at the top), so it will be reviewed in due course.--ukexpat (talk) 15:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Citing a website

Hi, I would like to use this website http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=sin as a source for the subsection "Etymology [1] in the article Christian views on sin. I am not sure how exactly to cite it, or if it would be a reliable source. Fordx12 (talk) 01:56, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Here's a couple of things to get you going in the right direction. WP:RS describes the criteria for reliable sources and WP:REFB explains how to use references. RudolfRed (talk) 02:51, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

And see also {{Cite web}}.--ukexpat (talk) 15:47, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

betty h fairfax

she did not die on 666. really??????? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.135.44 (talk) 03:26, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I have reverted the vandalism to Betty H. Fairfax High School and warned the vandal. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Quote-box poem

The Spider and the Fly

“Will you walk into my parlour?” said the Spider to the Fly,
 'Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to shew when you are there.”
“Oh no, no,” said the little Fly, “to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again.”

“I'm sure you must be weary, dear, with soaring up so high;

Will you rest upon my little bed?” said the Spider to the Fly.
“There are pretty curtains drawn around; the sheets are fine and thin,
And if you like to rest awhile, I'll snugly tuck you in!”
“Oh no, no,” said the little Fly,  “for I've often heard it said,
They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed!”

Said the cunning Spider to the Fly,  “Dear friend what can I do,
To prove the warm affection I 've always felt for you?
I have within my pantry, good store of all that's nice;
I'm sure you're very welcome — will you please to take a slice?”
“Oh no, no,” said the little Fly,  “kind Sir, that cannot be,
I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!”

“Sweet creature!” said the Spider,  “you're witty and you're wise,
How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes!
I've a little looking-glass upon my parlour shelf,
If you'll step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself.”
"I thank you, gentle sir," she said,  “for what you 're pleased to say,
And bidding you good morning now, I'll call another day.”

The Spider turned him round about, and went into his den,
For well he knew the silly Fly would soon come back again:
So he wove a subtle web, in a little corner sly,
And set his table ready, to dine upon the Fly.
Then he came out to his door again, and merrily did sing,
“Come hither, hither, pretty Fly, with the pearl and silver wing;
Your robes are green and purple — there's a crest upon your head;
Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead!”

Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little Fly,
Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by;
With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew,
Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue —
Thinking only of her crested head — poor foolish thing! At last,
Up jumped the cunning Spider, and fiercely held her fast.
He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den,
Within his little parlour — but she ne'er came out again!

And now dear little children, who may this story read,
To idle, silly flattering words, I pray you ne'er give heed:
Unto an evil counsellor, close heart and ear and eye,

And take a lesson from this tale, of the Spider and the Fly.

~Mary Howitt, 1829

I can't figure out how to get the center-spacing to carry thru beyond the {{hidden begin}} ('Show') - Any assistance would be appreciated, ~thanks, ~Eric F 74.60.29.141 (talk)~

I added div tags to your text (see the documentation at Template:Center). Is that what you had in mind? -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 08:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

That does it! ~Thanks, ~Eric F 74.60.29.141 (talk) Modified:09:41, 21 November 2012 (UTC) - Generally speaking, which is more efficient: markup or template?

{{Hidden begin}} supports styling (which is why it resets the centering), so you can use

{{hidden begin |bodystyle="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"}}

instead of <div> (which is an extra, since {{hidden begin}} puts everything in a <div>}. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 09:57, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

To be frank, I don't know the answer to this question. Also, how do you measure efficiency here? Do you mean the speed with which the MediaWiki software renders the page (including any paramets passed to the template or anything between the tags)? If that's the case, then I don't know whether there is a difference between the two, but if there is, then I guess it might be so small that it might not matter anyway. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 09:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I was thinking about rendering efficiency - templates are easier to use, so I guess they're more efficient to use, de-bug, etc. ~E:^{Press to Talk}10:26, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Does an "external link" constitute a "source or reference?"

Articles often have only an "External link," often to some website associated with the subject. There is a tagging template which can be added to articles which says "This article does not cite any references or sources.." Is it an appropriate use of that template when the article only has the external link? It does not "cite" a "reference," but it arguably has a "source." even if it is not always a reliable or independent one. Edison (talk) 04:50, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I would suggest Template:No footnotes as a template that works here as long as the external link seems valid. --Onorem♠Dil 05:02, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

If a bio of "Joe Nobody" has only an external link to his website, or some anonymous website, or a nonreliable source like Facebook, and no footnotes, is a lack of footnotes the only problem, or is the article unreferenced? Edison (talk) 16:01, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I think it's fair to say that if no reliable source is provided, the article can be considered unreferenced. Depending on the content, speedy or prod blp... --Onorem♠Dil 16:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The WP:BLPPROD page says that a BLP Prod can only be placed if "article contain no sources in any form". Hack (talk) 02:15, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

If the 'source' isn't reliable, I think that's a fair case for IAR use of the template...but fine, then AfD instead of prod if that idea is disturbing. --Onorem♠Dil 03:29, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Wishart Campbell

In your list of Canadian composers missing is

Wishart Campbell (1901 - 1983) [composer of currently recorded, and played songs such as The Airman's Prayer -- the 'official hymn of the Canadain Airforce'; By His Word -- recorded by the Andrews Sisters and made populuar by Mahalia Jackson -- now part of 'Black spiritual repertoir'; Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep; The Mist of Islay, and about 85 other lessor known patriotic, religious, popular and novelty songs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.140.43.83 (talk) 14:14, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The article List of Canadian composers is a list of Canadian composers who are the subjects of Wikipedia articles. There is no such article about Wishart Campbell. If you believe that he is notable enough to justify such an article, and someone creates one, he should be added to the list. Maproom (talk) 14:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

sammy stopford

the info you have used on sammy stopford ballroom dancer is incorrect on many dates and points ...as i am sammy i guess i would know — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.34.3 (talk) 14:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Please use the talk page at Talk:Sammy Stopford to explain the changes that you think should be made and provide reliable sources to support such changes.--ukexpat (talk) 15:49, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:RFC/USER: Reopen old or create new?

In the case of a closed WP:RFC/USER (In particular, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wtshymanski) if an editor believes that problems persist (and all requirements such as two users trying and failing to resolve the dispute are met) is the proper procedure to open a new WP:RFC/USER or to add a new section to the existing closed WP:RFC/USER?

I am asking this because of a question I was asked at User talk:Guy Macon#Negative Power Factor. --Guy Macon (talk) 15:57, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

(...Sound of Crickets...) --Guy Macon (talk) 10:39, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

translating a Wikipedia entry to another language

I want to edit/create an entry depending on it's English version.

is it possible to do that? Can I do it with getting a permission/allowance from the editor of the entry? if there are so many revisions on the article, from whom do I need to get it?

thank you in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baturkhan (talk • contribs) 17:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

You can basically just do the translation without any permission from anyone. See WP:TRANSLATE. Dismas|^(talk) 17:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Everyone who has contributed to a English-language Wikipedia article has surrendered all copyright to their contributions. So you may use the material of the article to create an article in another Wikipedia without asking anyone's permission. Maproom (talk) 17:38, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Not quite true. Contributors retain their copyrights - they have just agreed to license them under GFDL and CC license which require reuse to include attribution, etc. WP:Translate covers this (as does Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia) Rmhermen (talk) 21:38, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I really appreciate... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baturkhan (talk • contribs) 17:49, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

News article taken down, can be archived?

The news article no longer here in the Ottawa Citizen was recently removed from the newspaper's site. Even the archives. Seems like they were trying to expunge it or something. However, you can still see a copy of the article here in the Google Cache version. However, that will only last until Google recaches the site, which is in a few days.

Is there anyway to archive this article? Because otherwise it will disappear and no longer be usable on Wikipedia, because it will not longer be verifiable. Maybe use the Internet Wayback Machine or something else to archive it? What should be done? Silverseren^C 19:17, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

There is WebCite which you can use to archive nearly any website. Their webpage is at http://www.webcitation.org/. Click on the link at the top labeled Archive. Then fill in the information on that page and click the Submit button below the insert boxes. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 20:35, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Will WebCite archive it fast enough that the Google Cache won't roll over? Silverseren^C 20:44, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, but I think WebCite is usually quite fast in making a cached website available. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 20:48, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

WebCite apparently can't archive the page. It's saying that the Cache is returning a Page Not Found message, even though the Cache looks find to me. Silverseren^C 20:51, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I submitted an archive request for the url that went into the queue and should shortly be available at here (assuming the archiving succeeded). -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 21:00, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, actually that one returns an error as well.... -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 21:03, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Any ideas on another website that can archive the page? I have the cache downloaded to my computer as a PDF. So I can upload that somewhere if there's an archive system that works like that. Silverseren^C 21:04, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The confirmation E-Mail I received from WebCite says

"The caching attempt failed for the following reason: No files could be downloaded for the given URL. This is likely because

a) The URL is incorrect,

b) The site in question refuses connections by crawling robots, or

c) The site in question is inaccessible from the WebCite network"

Unfortunately I am not aware of any other on demand archiving service. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 21:10, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Btw I've been arguing for a long time that linkrot is a serious problem for Wikipedia, but unfortunately not much has been achieved since then and all discussion about it seems to have died out. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 21:15, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The story was originally published by The Times and is still partially available on their site here. As you will notice, it says that "This article is the subject of a legal complaint from Alisher Usmanov" which is presumably why the link at ottawacitizen.com no longer works. WP:DEADLINK and WP:SOURCEACCESS say that we don't need to have a working link to reference it, but if it's accuracy is being challenged by Usmanov, we maybe shouldn't be referencing it per BLP. SmartSE (talk) 00:38, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, i'm keeping a copy of it anyways on my hard drive, for use in the future if necessary. And I rather doubt there's anything inaccurate in the article, so much as it's negative about Usmanov and he has the money to make negative news articles disappear. Most of the time anyways. Silverseren^C 02:35, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Not sure how to contribute

Hi, I'm a sophomore in high school and not a genius like everyone else here but I want to contribute to Wikipedia though I'm not sure how. Since I'm not awesome enough to write articles, how do you find people that vandalize almost instantly, and how do ban them and how do you change your name I meant to name myself FHSGirl2015? Thx — Preceding unsigned comment added by FHS Girl 2014 (talk • contribs) 20:28, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The least challenging way to contribute is to read an article, any article but best to choose something that interests you, spot mistakes of spelling, grammar and punctuation, and fix them. Maproom (talk) 20:34, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll break your questions up into 3 parts.

1. While there's various software things that some editors use, the main method of keeping up with recent edits is through the Recent Changes page, where you can see the newest edits made to Wikipedia. There's even a group that some Wikipedians created, called Recent changes patrol that you can feel free to join as well.

2. Banning, unfortunately, can only be conducted by Administrators. However, what you can do is leave warnings on new users talk pages informing them of the inappropriate edits they've made. The templates for these warning can be found here. Generally, you start with a level 2 warning and work up to level 4 for each time the user vandalizes.

After three warnings, so long as they are not an established editor and appear to be an account that is only used for vandalism, you can report them at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism, where an administrator will look into the person's edits and block them if appropriate.

If you have issues with another editor directly, please see our Dispute Resolution system. And if it's something where you need the attention of other users on it immediately, then you can report it at the Administrator's Noticeboard for Incidents.

3. As for requestion a username change, you can do that at Wikipedia:Changing username/Simple.

I hope this was helpful. Silverseren^C 20:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, all of this seems very techie, maybe I'm not cut out for this. But wiki is still amazing! FHS Girl 2014 (talk) 21:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, if you're willing to do the thankless gruntwork, you could just use an external search engine such as Google to look for common typos such as "concensus" and "seperate" within pages at wikipedia.org; then correct them. Boring, perhaps, but deeply appreciated. --Orange Mike | Talk 21:34, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

You have managed to sign your postings here correctly with your username. That is more than most new editors can manage (just look at the previous questions posted on this page if you don't believe me). So I believe you are cut out for this – if you feel like it. Maproom (talk) 21:48, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Really? Thanks. :-) I wasn't signing at first, but then this robot came and like told me "hi, I'm a robot and I have been signing your posts, this is how you sign your posts, please do it so I don't have to" so I just did what it said. That's amazing if people really can't figure it out. I'll try an stick around, who knows, maybe some day I'll be one of those "administrators". FHS Girl 2014 (talk) 21:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

• Don't worry: a large part of Wikipedia contributors is in the school age (including the wonderful honorable Administrators and their family). There is a getting started page where you can read the key points of Wikipedia philosophy and see links to the pages that list tasks you can help out with. That page misses another substantial activity of simply expanding and correcting the pages you read: those pages often are on the topics that you're proficient in, or at least interesting to you, and such readers usually have a great potential of improving the article. There is no need to get involved with anti-vandalism; Wikipedia does need a lot more help with content instead these days. --Gryllida 23:57, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Why thanks, I always thought Wikipedia editors were nerds, but it doen't really seem hard at all. It's quite ironic really, I actually created this account to beg for mercy because I vandalized a page from school and read a message about Wikipedia Abuse Response. I honestly didn't expect everybody to be so nice to me. I will try and stick around here to improve the project. FHS Girl 2014 (talk) 03:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

To add to the suggestions above, see WP:ADOPT for a program where you can be "adopted" by an experienced editor; it's an effective, personalized way to become familiar with Wikipedia. If you're more of a lone ranger type, see Wikipedia:Community portal/Opentask for a constantly updated list of available tasks; just make sure to make yourself familiar with any policies or guidelines involved. The amount of information may be overwhelming at first, but it isn't really that complicated. Start small, and expand when you feel comfortable enough. And of course, don't hesitate to ask on this page if you have any doubts, or to drop by the Wikipedia:Teahouse — Frankie (talk) 21:24, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Download Pictures

Once I have uploaded pictures to Wikipedia, how do I download them into an article? And can I edit the picture before I download it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trish3355 (talk • contribs) 20:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

You don't want to "download" it, you want to link to it from the article. The syntax of the link, at its simplest, is something like this: [[File:yourpicture.jpg|thumb|Caption goes here]] Maproom (talk) 21:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi, just add the image to the article: it is just one line indicating which image you want to add, and a caption. --Gryllida 23:30, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

In answer to your other question, no there's no way to edit pictures inside Wikipedia. You would need to edit the picture using other software, and then upload a new version to Wikipedia (or preferably to Wikimedia Commons, so that other Wikimedia projects could use the picture as well). --ColinFine (talk) 13:20, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

What the hell is this?

Hello. I have received in my e-mail, via MediaWiki, the following message:

Dear Sürrell,

The Wikipedia page "Tim Maudlin" has been created on 21 November 2012 by Spencer.mccormick, with the edit summary: -

This is a new page. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Maudlin for the current revision.

To contact the editor, visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Spencer.mccormick

Note that additional changes to the page "Tim Maudlin" will not result in any further notifications, until you have logged in and visited the page.

Your friendly Wikipedia notification system.

This email notification feature was enabled on English Wikipedia in May 2011 - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Email_notification. If you would like to switch off your notifications, visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences

If you wish to remove the page from your watchlist, visit http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tim_Maudlin&action=unwatch

Feedback and further assistance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Contents

It's me who have created the article "Tim Maudlin" . I want to know what the hell does it means? Thank you. --Sürrell (talk) 22:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

• Hi, you are receiving this message because you opted to receive email notifications of changes to the pages you are watching. I have no idea why the page is marked as created by Spencer.mccormick, it sounds like software error (I can confirm you did.) --Gryllida 23:25, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Spencer.mccormick marked the page as reviewed.[2] It appears the email notification system does not handle reviews correctly. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:07, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I have added this case to the existing bugzilla:14901 - "Email notification mistakes log action for new page creation". PrimeHunter (talk) 01:45, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

RE: Atricle: Jon Bon Jovi

It states that Jovi's daughter was charged with possession of heroin succeeding her overdose, however, the charges against her and Ian S. Grant "were later tossed because a New York law exempts people from possession charges if they sought help for somebody experiencing a drug or alcohol overdose or other life-threatening medical emergency". http://ca.omg.yahoo.com/blogs/celebrity-broods/jon-bon-jovi-speaks-daughter-drug-overdose-ll-195853305.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.70.128.65 (talk) 23:51, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunatly, a Yahoo blog does not meet the requirements of a reliable source, and the Fox11 article linked from the blog doesn't mention charges being dropped, etc. - If you wish to edit the article, please use a citation from a major news source, or something equally reliable. Note, this is especially important for articles about living persons: sources / living person~E 74.60.29.141 (talk) 01:17, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

IP 50 is absolutely correct. There are many reliable sources, such as this one. Good luck. --76.189.101.221 (talk) 14:19, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I have requested removal of the content from the article. --76.189.101.221 (talk) 14:33, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Um no, you don't need to 'request removal' - you can just remove it, per WP:BLP policy. The article isn't about Jovi's daughter... AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:46, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Um yes, the article is protected. --76.189.101.221 (talk) 14:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah, sorry - I hadn't noticed. Anyway, I've removed it now. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:05, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

By the way, his name isn't Jovi. It's Bongiovi. Which he spells Bon Jovi.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)